Gears while stopping?

turnsoutIwas

I was a driving instructor for 6 years and I always taught my pupils to stop in whatever gear they are in unless its fourth in which case you drop to third, come off the clutch and put it back down within 2-3m of stopping.

People who are already driving years will have their own style and if they are going all the way down to 2nd before stopping then I wouldnt tell them to change it so long as they are doing it smoothly etc. This is why some advice from instructors seems contradictory-different people need to do different things to pass the test.

jptop7

beachlife wrote: »

that wastes alot of petrol!!

Gears ar
Gears are for making progress.
Choose the gear you need to do that regardless, if you intend to stop do it in any gear however if you need to move into a place to stop then control will be required 2nd or 1st will help. I think what most people get confused when stopping as the severity of the stop may affect the need to change down ie if your stopping is drawn out a gear change may be necessary.
Hope this helps .

mickdw

I really cannot agree with anyone saying there is a situation when you should just come to a stop in say 4th gear. Some are saying if you know you are defo coming to a stop, then its ok. While that argument might be ok, that means that someone doing this would have no natural flow while driving. It sounds like they would be continually having to think about what they were doing, instead of driving perfectly natural and keeping in a gear to suit the speed of the car.
In my experience, people either go down through the gears or they dont. The ones who dont are the people who are always caught looking for a lower gear coming out of a bend for example. The suggestion that there are situations where it is ok just confuses the issue as I cannot see how a driver of habit could drive like this, behaving one way at one time and doing the opposite just cause it appears they will be coming to a certain stop.

[-0-]

If I'm approaching a red light I will gear down while breaking.
Likewise, if someone is stopped ahead of me I will do the same.

Zube

mickdw wrote: »

I cannot see how a driver of habit could drive like this, behaving one way at one time and doing the opposite just cause it appears they will be coming to a certain stop.

When approaching a stopped line of traffic, for example, of course you know you are coming to a halt.

When going down through the gears, I often change down in blocks, 6th-4th-2nd, or in the other car 5th-2nd. It really doesn't give you "more control" to have the clutch in 4 times to go 6-5-4-3-2.

cyclopath2001

[-0-] wrote: »

If I'm approaching a red light I will gear down while breaking.

Likewise, but also when approaching a traffic light which has changed to amber.

RoadKillTs

I always gear down. You have more control that way.
For example if you have to move out of the way quickly and in your in a too high a gear you cant move out quick enough.
Some instructors tell you to do it and some don't.

stopped_clock

Hello!

I'd usually not gear down if coming to a dead stop.

A similar question though, is if you were doing 60mph in 5th and needed to slow to say 15-20mph (for whatever reason). I'd use the brakes to reduce speed and block shift from 5th down to 2nd.

I've been told by more than one instructor that gearing down is a carry-over from before synchromesh gearboxes, when you had to gear down in order to go back up the gears (if you get me).

ttm

Isn't the point all about having a driving technique that allows you to stay in contol if you are driving your own brand new state of the art car with ABS or driving an old banger where the next press of the brakes could be metal on metal.

Its all well and good to say that such and such technique was for back in the days when brakes weren't as good as you just don't know if on the next depression of the brakes anything is going to happen at all at least going through the motion of going down through the gears and lifing the clutch gives you a back up which you don't have if all you ever do is break in 5th gear from 100kph down to a near stop.

mickdw

Zube wrote: »

When approaching a stopped line of traffic, for example, of course you know you are coming to a halt.

When going down through the gears, I often change down in blocks, 6th-4th-2nd, or in the other car 5th-2nd. It really doesn't give you "more control" to have the clutch in 4 times to go 6-5-4-3-2.

Yes you will be stopping if driving up to the back of a line of cars. My point is it doesnt make sense to do this for some situations and then drive properly in all other slowing down situations. What if there is only 1 or 2 cars stopped at the lights, do you then have to make the decision to gear down cause it is possible the lights will go green and they wil be moving off before you get to a stop or do you roll up behind them in 5th gear and then pick up 2nd when they move away while you were still moving. The whole idea is nonscense when its much easier, safer & better in every way always have the car in a gear suitable to its speed.
The transmission wear argument doesnt really hold water either. A driver is more likely to do damage by maybe misjudging speed going from 5th to 2nd and coming off the clutch with the car moving too fast compared to using all the gears coming down.

Busta Hyman

Zube wrote: »

When approaching a stopped line of traffic, for example, of course you know you are coming to a halt.

When going down through the gears, I often change down in blocks, 6th-4th-2nd, or in the other car 5th-2nd. It really doesn't give you "more control" to have the clutch in 4 times to go 6-5-4-3-2.

i dont think your wrong but still you are keeping the car in a relevant gearing

vincenzolorenzo

beachlife wrote: »

that wastes alot of petrol!!

How is that? Surely by freewheeling up to red lights the car is idling and hence using less fuel??

vincenzolorenzo

rex-x wrote: »

On the subject of driving instructors, I had a fight with mine as he insisted I put in the handbrake button while pulling it up as letting it click will wear out the ratchet teeth . . . .

I had the same problem with a driving instructor one time. He was an idiot to be fair. i think the only reason he wanted me to press the button was because he didn't like the sound of the ratchet. :rolleyes:

vincenzolorenzo

AugustusMaximus wrote: »

If you take your foot off the accelerator and come down through the gear, your engine will be using no petrol as the torque from the wheels will continue to turn the engine over.

Yeah but the engine is still actually running though and must surely be burning petrol still? No?

Anan1

Busta Hyman wrote: »

i beleive gear down as it keeps the car engaged in the correct gear. also to the guy that coasts its SUCH a bad idea as in bad weather ( ice etc) or slippery road (oil / rain) if your in neutral and brake you can and possbly will lock up the wheels.

DublinDilbert wrote: »

I always gear down, as other posters have said if the situation changes and you need to move your in the correct gear. Its also gives you more control if the ground is slippy / icy, people will say but there's ABS, but not every car has that.

Engine braking on a slippery surface can provoke a slide too, and if that happens then ABS isn't going to help. Unless the car has VSC or an intelligent AWD system a slide caused by engine braking can only be recovered by accelerating, which is counter-intuitive to most people.

Anan1

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

Yeah but the engine is still actually running though and must surely be burning petrol still? No?

No, almost all engines have a fuel cut-off on the overrun. As AugustusMaximus said, the wheels are turning the engine rather than vice versa.

Theta

I was told when doing my test if you gear down to often you will fail.

I generally go from 4th to second and then depress the clutch, but I do stop in whatever gear im in at a red light some times. Does no harm.

One place I really do use the gears to slow the cars is coming down hills though. Much better then using the brakes.

I gear down if I am driving on the car, coming in to bends etc where I want to be in the right power range to pull hard out of the bend and if I am coming to lights that I think might change etc. If I know I'm going to stop I will usually knock the car into neutral and coast up to the traffic. As far as my mpg read out says costing gives much better mpg than gearing down which burns plenty of petrol as far as I can see.

Vegeta

One method is reactionary and one is pro-active.

I choose the pro-active method

leahyl

Zube wrote: »

It's interesting that different driving instructors teach different things:

a) if you're definitely going to stop, just use your brakes

b) always use all the gears down to 2nd

I completely agree different driving instructors have different ideas. My instructor told me that I would fail if I didn't stop in second all the time! Now I haven't even applied for my test yet only learning 2 months but like sometimes when I'm driving (ie. Not a lesson) it's impossible to come down the gears in certain situations. Surely i wouldn't fail if I didn't come down the gears everytime?! I'm really confused someone help!:(

Plug

I just put the car in neutral and use the brakes when coming to stop. Brakes are more effective than a gearbox when it comes to stopping..

beachlife

Plug wrote: »

I just put the car in neutral and use the brakes when coming to stop. Brakes are more effective than a gearbox when it comes to stopping..

You should leave the car in gear so as not to waste petrol,that is how the engine management is designed to operate.

beachlife

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

How is that? Surely by freewheeling up to red lights the car is idling and hence using less fuel??

Not exactly. If you are driving an old car with a carb. then yes.All modern cars with fuel injection actually switch of the injectors when you take your foot off the accelerator in gear,When the engine revs drop low enough the ecu switches to idle control and controls the tick over

Plug

beachlife wrote: »

You should leave the car in gear so as not to waste petrol,that is how the engine management is designed to operate.

So if I comes up to a set of red lights I go lets say 4th then down to 2nd and then nuetral and stop. The engine will be operating faster when its in gear than when its in nuetral I thought.

vincenzolorenzo

beachlife wrote: »

Not exactly. If you are driving an old car with a carb. then yes.All modern cars with fuel injection actually switch of the injectors when you take your foot off the accelerator in gear,When the engine revs drop low enough the ecu switches to idle control and controls the tick over

OK but the engine doesn't actually cut out, so if the ECU uses idling revs then surely thats the same as having the engine tickover. No?? Still

beachlife

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

OK but the engine doesn't actually cut out, so if the ECU uses idling revs then surely thats the same as having the engine tickover. No?? Still

No. the engine DOES cut out,the fuel injectors are switched OFF,i.e no fuel.the
ecu switches to idling revs from about 1,300 rpm down to tick over(about 750rpm)So if you are doing say 80kmph and come to a roundabout with lights on it(say in fourth gear) doing maybe 2,500rpm the second you lift your foot off the accelerator pedal the ecu cuts the fuel,then you place your foot on the brake slowing down gently,when you are almost at the lights you put your foot on the clutch(then the ecu restarts the injectors unless you have slowed down so much the the revs have droped so low that you are in the idling zone,in which case the ecu will resume injecting in order to avoid stalling)the engine is now at idle,you stop take it out of gear and wait for the green!!

vincenzolorenzo

beachlife wrote: »

No. the engine DOES cut out,the fuel injectors are switched OFF,i.e no fuel.the
ecu switches to idling revs from about 1,300 rpm down to tick over(about 750rpm)So if you are doing say 80kmph and come to a roundabout with lights on it(say in fourth gear) doing maybe 2,500rpm the second you lift your foot off the accelerator pedal the ecu cuts the fuel,then you place your foot on the brake slowing down gently,when you are almost at the lights you put your foot on the clutch(then the ecu restarts the injectors unless you have slowed down so much the the revs have droped so low that you are in the idling zone,in which case the ecu will resume injecting in order to avoid stalling)the engine is now at idle,you stop take it out of gear and wait for the green!!

Jaysus i never would have thought that now. Thanks for the info!

JimmyCrackCorn!

Perfect Choice wrote: »

If I see a red light or a traffic jam up ahead I usually put the car into neutral and roll up to the traffic lights/junction.

Instant test fail.

stopped_clock

leahyl wrote: »

I completely agree different driving instructors have different ideas. My instructor told me that I would fail if I didn't stop in second all the time! Now I haven't even applied for my test yet only learning 2 months but like sometimes when I'm driving (ie. Not a lesson) it's impossible to come down the gears in certain situations. Surely i wouldn't fail if I didn't come down the gears everytime?! I'm really confused someone help!:(

As I said above, I'd disagree with the always-stopping-in-second approach, but there's already been enough debate on that!

One point is that what you do to "not fail" isn't necessarily what you "should do" in any given situation. Some instructors seem to be quite dogmatic about this.

For example, I was told in a driving lesson to use 4th gear in certain situations, despite the fact that the car had a 2litre engine and 4th was completely inappropriate in said situation.

I think the best approach is to understand the WHYs and WHY NOTs of what you're told to do. A good instructor should be able to explain it logically, even if it's that there's no reason other than "it's what the tester wants".

Consider having a read of a book as well. Roadcraft is a good one, I'm sure there are others.

HTH

b3rni3

when i was getting pre test lessons i was told "the test is just a formality and to pass you go through the motions but when your driving you dont need to"

this was one of the truest things ever said to me.

eg how many of us do the wheel suffling and not cross our arms while driving?

as for the topic at hand i personally use the gears to slow the car down with the brakes. this allows you to use less braking which in turn stops your brakes wearing out quicker. also its supposed to be better for fuel economy (dunno how true this is) id imagine it would be especially in tuned cars that run a little rich.

besides all that in an emergency stop if you use the gears effectively you can use engine braking along with your brakes and stop much quicker. however you might need to practice heal toe depending on the car your driving as you dont want your wheels to lock under heavy engine braking.

Mr.David

b3rni3 wrote: »

eg how many of us do the wheel suffling and not cross our arms while driving?

as for the topic at hand i personally use the gears to slow the car down with the brakes. this allows you to use less braking which in turn stops your brakes wearing out quicker.

besides all that in an emergency stop if you use the gears effectively you can use engine braking along with your brakes and stop much quicker.

Well you should not cross your arms when driving - thats not a stupid technique taught for the driving test, its by far the better way to steer.

Yes it stops your brakes wearing out quicker but brakes are cheap, engines/boxes are not.

Scenario - you are driving along a road at 80kmph and a child runs out in front of you. What do you do? a) apply full brake and steer b) compromise your ability to steer/mantain control by reaching over and downchanging?!

It makes no sense! Think about it. The limiting factor in how quickly you can stop your car is the friction coefficient between your tyres and the road surface. If you can lock up the wheels/activate ABS, then your brakes are strong enough to take full advantage of the max traction available. Engine braking will not change the friction coefficient.

b3rni3

Mr.David wrote: »

Well you should not cross your arms when driving - thats not a stupid technique taught for the driving test, its by far the better way to steer.


im not saying its not better to not cross your arms, what i meant is there is so many formalities in test that are not used in everyday driving. i dont cross my arms driving on a normal road, but parking i will as its almost stopped speed and its faster to cross your arms. crossing your arms isnt always dangerous, sometimes its necessary to keep control of your car on a very slippery road. eg. look at in car footage of drifting and youll see them crossing their arms while the car travels sideways at 60+mph.

now im not saying everyone should go out and cross their arms because drifters do it, but sometimes its necessary.

Yes it stops your brakes wearing out quicker but brakes are cheap, engines/boxes are not.

all depends on your driving style really eg i go down the gears and use them to slow the car little by little i dont mash the gears into 1st from 5th. ive been driving for 5 years now do on average 10k miles a year and never had to replace a gearbox, never replaced an engine, although i did rebuild the engine in my car but that was more because i wanted too.

Scenario - you are driving along a road at 80kmph and a child runs out in front of you. What do you do? a) apply full brake and steer b) compromise your ability to steer/mantain control by reaching over and downchanging?!

all depends on the scenario really, if you down change correctly you wont need to steer as you will stop quicker. comprising your ability to steer? im sure you could turn the steering wheel enough to avoid a child using one hand and not crash. eg. if you were to turn the steering wheel to avoid a child youll on average turn the wheel 90 degrees easily achievable with one hand. also im sure if needs be you can always bring your hand back to wheel before it gets to the gear stick or during a down change, if needs be screw the gear change and steer. things can happen very quickly i will admit and you wont have time to bring your hand back but you as a qualified driver should be able to judge distance and speed even if something runs out in front of you and thus judge the method best suited to stopping. eg if there is room to manouver then use both hands on the wheel and try to avoid the obsticle while braking. if there is not room engine braking can be the difference between having an accident and not having one.

It makes no sense! Think about it. The limiting factor in how quickly you can stop your car is the friction coefficient between your tyres and the road surface. If you can lock up the wheels/activate ABS, then your brakes are strong enough to take full advantage of the max traction available. Engine braking will not change the friction coefficient.

yes it will not change the friction coefficient but it will help you slow a car down faster. im not talking to a complete stop here. but eg. 80km - 30km can be achieved faster using engine braking/braking combo and then you use the brakes to stop completely. obviously you dont go from 5th to 1st. but 5th to second to help with the initial braking and scrub off as much speed as possible before you come to a complete stop.

beside most wheel lock ups under heavy braking happens in the last part of the braking process. where the car is travelling to fast for the tyres to cope with the friction caused between the pad and disk. usually between 30km - 0km. if you can scrub off more speed not using the brakes before you hit this mark then you will have more distance to stop in and thus need less braking force and thus not lock your wheels.

taken from wikipedia

Engine braking passively reduces wear on brakes and helps a driver maintain control of the vehicle. Active use of engine braking (shifting into a lower gear) is advantageous when it is necessary to control speed while driving down very steep and long slopes. It should be applied before regular disk or drum brakes have been used, leaving the brakes available to make emergency stops. The desired speed is maintained by using engine braking to counteract the gravitational acceleration.
Improper engine braking technique can cause the wheels to skid (also called shift-locking), especially on slippery surfaces such as ice or snow, as a result of too much deceleration. As in a skid caused by over-braking, the vehicle will not regain traction until the wheels are allowed to turn more quickly; the driver must reduce engine braking (shifting back up) to regain traction.

there is another way to stop shift lock. its called heal-toe as i meantioned above.

see engine braking done correctly is not used to stop a car without brakes but help scrub loads of speed off initially thus giving the brakes less to do and stop them locking.

its best suited imo to rwd cars and not fwd as you would be asking to much for the front wheels to do

Anan1

b3rni3 wrote: »

yes it will not change the friction coefficient but it will help you slow a car down faster. im not talking to a complete stop here. but eg. 80km - 30km can be achieved faster using engine braking/braking combo and then you use the brakes to stop completely.

Assuming adequate brakes, this is simply untrue. As Mr. David said, the limiting factor in hard braking is the coefficient of friction between tyres and road surface.

b3rni3

b3rni3 wrote: »

but 5th to second to help with the initial braking and scrub off as much speed as possible before you come to a complete stop.

You are worried about wearing brakes yet you dog the car into 2nd from 5th to force it to slow down rather than just using the brakes which are there for a reason. I wouldn't like to be the next owner of your car.

As said above in a emergency stop a car will stop just as fast with the brakes(good brakes) as with a combination of engine braking and braking if not faster as jamming the brakes is faster than messing with gear changes.

You agree that the coefficient of friction is the limiting factor so how do you think the car will stop faster using the engine braking. If the car is stopping faster than the coefficient of friction allows it will skid under engine braking also so how can it stop faster??

dubstub

I usually gear down when coming to a stop. I'd always gear down if in a high gear like 4th. If the car has a decent amount of torque the engine idling in 4th will pull the car at quite a high speed.
Also, gearing down allows you to avoid coasting until the last moment, otherwise once you hit the stall speed of the gear you're in you'll have to depress the clutch. That stall speed can be quite high for 3rd or 4th in some cars. That said, I usually use 3rd to bring the car to a stop because that's what I was taught.

Mr.David

dubstub wrote: »

Also, gearing down allows you to avoid coasting until the last moment, otherwise once you hit the stall speed of the gear you're in you'll have to depress the clutch. That stall speed can be quite high for 3rd or 4th in some cars.

Try it. Assuming you are driving something with relatively normal gearing etc I think you will find you can brake down (in 5th) to about 20mph before needing to clutch. It also allows you to have both hands on the wheel much more of the time which is beneficial.

stealthyspeeder

As someone has said before, brake pads are a lot cheaper than clutches!

dubstub

Mr.David wrote: »

Try it. Assuming you are driving something with relatively normal gearing etc I think you will find you can brake down (in 5th) to about 20mph before needing to clutch. It also allows you to have both hands on the wheel much more of the time which is beneficial.

3rd gear with the clutch out and engine idling will pull the car at 20MPH in my car.
The last 2 cars I've had were new and diesels and while 3rd has quite a wide range, 1st and 2nd are for low speeds only and 4th and 5th will feel uncomfortable at speeds much under 30MPH.

Mr.David

I understand that you cannot feasibly drive in 5th at 20mph but its different braking down to this speed. Try it, every car will be somewhat different.

Engine braking is a throwback to years ago when huge lorries etc had **** brakes and needed engine braking to assist in slowing them down. Nowadays this is not the case. Is it still taught in the driving test i.e. do you still HAVE to cycle down through the gears? Such a load of rubbish. Ive moved to the UK and they stopped teaching it here years ago.

Alanstrainor

Mr.David wrote: »

I understand that you cannot feasibly drive in 5th at 20mph but its different braking down to this speed. Try it, every car will be somewhat different.

Engine braking is a throwback to years ago when huge lorries etc had **** brakes and needed engine braking to assist in slowing them down. Nowadays this is not the case. Is it still taught in the driving test i.e. do you still HAVE to cycle down through the gears? Such a load of rubbish. Ive moved to the UK and they stopped teaching it here years ago.

There is no requirement to "cycle" down through the gears when coming to a complete stop in the driving test. Both methods are fine, most instructors teach "brakes to slow, Gears to go"

Henry Ford III

Some crazy responses here.

How about some pretty basic advice:-

"Be in the most appropriate gear at all times". Works for me.

craichoe

Mr.David wrote: »

I understand that you cannot feasibly drive in 5th at 20mph but its different braking down to this speed. Try it, every car will be somewhat different.

Engine braking is a throwback to years ago when huge lorries etc had **** brakes and needed engine braking to assist in slowing them down. Nowadays this is not the case. Is it still taught in the driving test i.e. do you still HAVE to cycle down through the gears? Such a load of rubbish. Ive moved to the UK and they stopped teaching it here years ago.

Whats all this about Gearing/Speed .... I just use the premise that you should use the appropriate gear for the loading on the engine whether that be decreasing speed/increasing speed.

The fuel pump in my car (and all cars i believe) cuts off fuel when the forward momentum is running the engine, this saves me fuel.

I select gear based on the surface condition, Germany these days they teach you to drive with the minimal use of brakes as it causes traffic jams.

Theres no hard and fast rules of Gear/Speed/Revs, its more of a common sense thing, i.e. letting a 1.9TDI VAG run in 4th gear would be a bad idea as the torque puts a real load on the brakes when coming to a stop, however staying in 4th on a 1.4FSI coming to a stop might be fine.

Anyways, you should stay in a gear that will:
1. Give you enough power to accelerate/decelerate from your current speed, depending on what you want.
2. Should not 'push' the car without the use of the accelerator on a petrol it'll usually stall .. on a diesel it will keep going !
3. Is correct for the road surface, e.g. 4th gear for Ice/Gravel, 3rd gear for Tarmac.

I think the whole changing gear thing is a laziness factor for alot of people. I just got into the habit from learning to drive a motorbike first

Alanstrainor

Henry Ford III wrote: »

"Be in the most appropriate gear at all times". Works for me.

The thing is that it's all situation specific, yes the above will work 90% of the time, but when comping to a complete stop i can't see the point in cycling down through the gears. And as far as i'm concerned that is what this whole thread is about, as stated in the OP:

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

If I driving along, say in 4th gear, and I see red lights up ahead and I know I will have to stop.

Morlar

Going down through the gears makes more sense to me, it's got nothing to do with saving money on brake pads, it is to do with controlling the way the car stops.

It is also a far safer habit to get into when it comes to driving on ice/snow/wet roads etc.

Anan1

Morlar wrote: »

Going down through the gears makes more sense to me, it's got nothing to do with saving money on brake pads, it is to do with controlling the way the car stops.

It is also a far safer habit to get into when it comes to driving on ice/snow/wet roads etc.

I don't really think so - engine braking on ice can cause a slide, particularly with RWD. Using the brakes apportions the braking effort across all four wheels, and you have the safety net of ABS.

r3nu4l

Zube wrote: »

It's interesting that different driving instructors teach different things:

a) if you're definitely going to stop, just use your brakes

b) always use all the gears down to 2nd

Exactly.

unkel wrote: »

You see, different driving instructors do not teach different things. Ask some qualified instructors and the overwhelming majority will tell you to use the brakes.

Er, no. It's clear that different driving instructors DO (emphasis overkill hee hee) teach different things.

When I was learning to drive (less than 10 years ago) my fully qualified independent instructor thought me to always break and gear down so that I would be in correct gear. Even if you are CERTAIN that you are coming to a stop, if the lights change as soon as you are stopped you shouldn't have to shift about searching for first gear from fifth! You should either be in neutral or just going from second to first.

I also had two pre-test lessons from the ISM and they told me exactly the same thing...as did my own father.

However, an instructor from another school told me that I should just break and stop. *shrugs* I went with the former and have stuck with it That way I'm always in the right gear according to the speed I'm at. The ONLY time this doesn't apply for me is in an emergency stop.

Eoin

r3nu4l wrote: »

When I was learning to drive (less than 10 years ago) my fully qualified independent instructor thought me to always break and gear down so that I would be in correct gear. Even if you are CERTAIN that you are coming to a stop, if the lights change as soon as you are stopped you shouldn't have to shift about searching for first gear from fifth! You should either be in neutral or just going from second to first

Yep, I was told to go down through the gears and stop in second.

Mr.David

Morlar wrote: »

it is to do with controlling the way the car stops.

What? How can you possibly modulate your braking more smoothly with engine braking as opposed to brakes?

I have done lots of advanced driving and first thing I was told was that I change gear too often. I've changed that now and change much less and am more economical with changes. It also makes for much smoother and more satisfying progress. For instance, approaching roundabout (quiet one!) at 60mph in 5th, brake down to 35mph drop into 3rd and drive around and exit. Saves all the 5,4,3 drive.....3,4,5 bull****. Less concentration on the task at hand, more unnecesary wear on components and less time with both hands on the wheel and less smooth too!

Mr.David

r3nu4l wrote: »

Exactly.


Even if you are CERTAIN that you are coming to a stop, if the lights change as soon as you are stopped you shouldn't have to shift about searching for first gear from fifth!

In the above situation you drop it from 5th into 2nd and keep going - whats the big deal? If you are a sh1t driver that might be more difficult than cycling down but come on its not exactly challenging. It also means you can read the situation ahead better and prepare.

Morlar

Anan1 wrote: »

I don't really think so - engine braking on ice can cause a slide, particularly with RWD. Using the brakes apportions the braking effort across all four wheels, and you have the safety net of ABS.

My experience (current car FWD +ABS, previous RWD no abs) it is safer to go through the gears to avoid a slide. You brake suddenly on ice even with abs the risk of a slide is greater than if you remove the bulk of the speed by dropping gears. If you are in the habit of doing that there is no additional concentration required, no more than using a manual over an automatic.