Why are intelligent, university-educated, middle class Irish people not in revolt?

Overheal

SLUSK wrote: »

The smart people should leave the country. Why hang around and try to save a failed state?

Theres the door ---->

I'm not even going to waste my hate on you.

Sir Oxman

Overheal wrote: »

Theres the door ---->

I'm not even going to waste my hate on you.

You'd want to cop your mouth on - you don't even have to live here.

Overheal

gambiaman wrote: »

You'd want to cop your mouth on - you don't even have to live here.

True. Because despite repeated attempts to get Irish citizenship I was frequently declined. So you have me pegged!

Nobody HAS to live anywhere. Where the hell do you get your ideas?

Sir Oxman

Overheal wrote: »

True. Because despite repeated attempts to get Irish citizenship I was frequently declined. So you have me pegged!

Nobody HAS to live anywhere. Where the hell do you get your ideas?

So why berate the poster above?

PS Apologies if I came across as rude btw.

Sir Oxman

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0927/thisweek_av.html

Everyone should listen to Our Dear Leader on RTE Radio 1 today - this man is the 'leader' of my country and he is telling me to trust him and his gang with over 54 billion euros of our money when he defines honorable as Rody Molloy.
Richard Crowley, the interviewer, is about the only one in RTE/-FF that is doing his job.

If voting No to Lisbon results in the swift removal of this gang of thieves from this country, Vote No and feck the lunatics who say you shouldn't - the EU will still be there next Saturday and the SAturday after that ad finitum, hopefully this idiot Clowen and the criminals in FF will be forced out.

asdasd

our mortgages should be payed off rather then these STUPID F*CKING DIRTY DEALING Landowners who f*cked the system and f*cked you over. .

Look, here's the real truth: the reposnsibility for the mess Ireland is now in lies with the people who are now mouthing off the most. I dont blame FF, but I didnt buy a house. FF didnt force me to buy a house.

The developers - they built more houses during the boom - and their livelhoods dependned on the boom continuing? Were they corrupt? No. They believed their own nonsense. That is why they are bankrupt. Other people who believed the same nonsense were the people who bought houses. Has the recent history been expunged? Was I not in dinner parties explaining why I was renting "at my age" to people who over-mortgaged themselves to the hilt; holding my tongue on how they were impovrishing themselves, and the country a mere two years ago? Or was that a dream?

So what are the angry "tax-payers" in negative equity going to complain about, exactly. Those who are single, and renting can leave. The rest of youse are stuck, and the responsibility lies with yourself. so you bought your housing, pay for it.

( NAMA, by the way is another boondangle which benefits the house owner rather than the buyer).

honesty101

I am one of these educated middle class individuals who is not going to take it lying down. I am attempting to organise a rolling protest that will take place each day outside Dail Eireann while it is in session until the final vote is taken on Nama. Given that the Green Convention is on the 10th there is not much time.
Also, the Dail does not resume until Tuesday the 6th at 14.30. I (from Cork) will be standing outside the Dail from 12.00. People, a lot of you talk the talk but will you be there to stand alongside me. My wife asks 'why you?' The simple answer is if I don't do it we will still be waiting, Nama will happen and we then can only blame ourselves.
It is dead right what the original poster says, where are the patriots gone? Again, I said the same thing to my wife and she says I am being over dramatic! We have nothing to lose and everything to gain, but who, on the day, will actually get up off their asses and stand with us?
It might well be embarrassing for the people who stand their at the start but the crowds do need to be enormous and we so need to get media interest for this to have any hope. We can only hope to influence the greens. FF are too arrogant to care!
I welcome all queries on this protest to namagate@gmail.com
I promise I am not a radical and have never done anything like this before but enough is enough!!

Fighting Irish

Maybe most intelligent people didn't blow all their money and went for jobs with security. They might be getting a pay cut but for them its not that bad because they never went over board so their not in total ****

Omnipresence

I think it's because we don't have a voice or a lobby group representing us - which is rather socking - every other majority and minority group have some organisation fighting thier corner - except us ... by 'us' I mean the PAYE worker.....

vitners, farmers, business, civil servants, teachers, nurses, unions etc.. all have powerful voices - where is ours ??? - and how do we go about setting up one

It would certainly be the most powerful voice in ireland - if it just spoke up !!


.... so how do we do it ...

IRLConor

I'm university-educated, probably best described as middle class (although I reject describing people as being "X class" as an outdated notion) and I'll leave it up to ye to decide whether I'm intelligent or not.

Why am I not in revolt? A couple of reasons:

1. It would cost me dearly. Revolt and instability in Ireland will delay our economic recovery. No-one wants to invest in an unstable state. Physical protest will waste a ton of money in policing and (if it takes a violent turn) clean-up/insurance/repair. In addition, long term unrest is as likely to result in draconian laws infringing on our civil liberties as it is to change the government.
2. It would be ineffectual. I honestly believe that the current politicians in government are well aware that they are not liked and that there's a very good chance that a majority want them out. Telling them something they already know is a waste of my time, I have better things to be doing than that.
3. It would be hijacked. The far right, the far left and all the other crazies from the dusty corners of the political spectrum would benefit (and are benefiting) from any upheavals. If there's one thing I fear more than Irish politicians, it's Irish politicians with dodgy politics!

So, how do I think we can force an election? Do you have any of the following representing you in your constituency?

• FF backbenchers (preferably ones which were the second or third FF seat)
• Green Party TDs
• Independent/former PD who supports the government.

If so, talk to them and make it clear to them that their political career depends on them acting against the government at the earliest possible opportunity. Politics in Ireland is very local, use it if you can.

I don't think voting against Lisbon will bring down the government, it didn't do it the last time, why would it do it this time? Cast your vote based on the Treaty itself, long term that's the most sensible option.

honesty101

We need to maintain a constant presence outside the Dail while they are in session. As you said the Unions stand up for their people, who stands up for us? We have to start somewhere. E-mail me at namagate@gmail.com

Regards,

ninty9er

It's simple:

There are over 1.8 million people still working in this country, they have better things to do, many of them have families and clients to entertain on their weekends and are too busy enjoying themselves and just getting on as best they can when they have some spare time to bother with "protest".

Shouting people down is a perfect way to piss them off, not to get them to give you what you want.

"Educated" people will also for the most part realise that no matter what you do, as long as the system keeps its head above the water, we'll be fine and will protest come election time.

Supercell

"Berties Team"

Thats it in a ****ing nutshell, the retarded electorate would vote that cnut (i won it on the horses ...aka the money was resting in my account) in again.
I'm leaving.

axer

Supercell wrote: »

"Berties Team"

Thats it in a ****ing nutshell, the retarded electorate would vote that cnut (i won it in the horses ...aka the money was resting in my account) in again.
I'm leaving.

MysticalRain

Face it, we are a nation of subservient sheep. There should have been a revolution a long time ago. There probably won't be anytime soon. But at least we can get satisfaction from voting against Fianna Fail for the next 20 years.

anonymous_joe

MysticalRain wrote: »

Face it, we are a nation of subservient sheep. There should have been a revolution a long time ago. There probably won't be anytime soon. But at least we can get satisfaction from voting against Fianna Fail for the next 20 years.

My arse we are.

It's just that most people are a bit lazy.

thebman

Voting no to Lisbon may not get the current government out and is certainly the wrong thing to do IMO.

I think the best bet to get the get government out is the green parties conference coming up TBH.

Anything else is just abusing another event to try to get your way which is as bad as FF.

optocynic

Omnipresence wrote: »

I think it's because we don't have a voice or a lobby group representing us - which is rather socking - every other majority and minority group have some organisation fighting thier corner - except us ... by 'us' I mean the PAYE worker.....

vitners, farmers, business, civil servants, teachers, nurses, unions etc.. all have powerful voices - where is ours ??? - and how do we go about setting up one

It would certainly be the most powerful voice in ireland - if it just spoke up !!


.... so how do we do it ...

Please don't say union!
A union boss representing us with "The Most".. would be even more hypocritical than the berks speaking for SIPTU..

FTA69

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

In fairness lad, university types and the upper-middle classes were never the main protaginists in Irish revolutionary endeavours. I'm currently in a humanities course and half of my classmates are ignorant as sh*t about most things, they're far from being moulded into some sort of a left wing cadre by the bloody Arts department.

optocynic

FTA69 wrote: »

In fairness lad, university types and the upper-middle classes were never the main protaginists in Irish revolutionary endeavours. I'm currently in a humanities course and half of my classmates are ignorant as sh*t about most things, they're far from being moulded into some sort of a left wing cadre by the bloody Arts department.

Humanities course?
I thought you supported the RIRA?

Talk of a revolt is a bit nonsensical. Let's get a little bit real, there will be no hailing cobblestones and blood on the streets. What will happen is a swing from FF to FG. That's it...though if the OP takes that as a revolt you can be prepared for a big one!

I would accept a purge of the likes of Coughlan and O'Donoghue. If that doesn't happen I'll be pissed off, but that's a long way from storming the Dail. It won't happen in the UK, it won't happen here, it didn't happen when times were really bad and our parents walked 10 miles barefoot to get abused by the local priest and it aint gonna happen now 'cos someone screws the expenses and the dole queues are at their longest for 10 years.

asdasd

The obvious party to go after is the Greens. However, they are probably afraid that they will be decimated in any election so they are stuck.

I would welcome a FG-Labour coalition at this point. Theres need be more discussion about NAMA.

( Gay Byrne would use the Late Late Show - The LLS was never just an entertainment show).

Overheal

IRLConor wrote: »

I'm university-educated, probably best described as middle class (although I reject describing people as being "X class" as an outdated notion) and I'll leave it up to ye to decide whether I'm intelligent or not.

Why am I not in revolt? A couple of reasons:

1. It would cost me dearly. Revolt and instability in Ireland will delay our economic recovery. No-one wants to invest in an unstable state. Physical protest will waste a ton of money in policing and (if it takes a violent turn) clean-up/insurance/repair. In addition, long term unrest is as likely to result in draconian laws infringing on our civil liberties as it is to change the government.
2. It would be ineffectual. I honestly believe that the current politicians in government are well aware that they are not liked and that there's a very good chance that a majority want them out. Telling them something they already know is a waste of my time, I have better things to be doing than that.
3. It would be hijacked. The far right, the far left and all the other crazies from the dusty corners of the political spectrum would benefit (and are benefiting) from any upheavals. If there's one thing I fear more than Irish politicians, it's Irish politicians with dodgy politics!

So, how do I think we can force an election? Do you have any of the following representing you in your constituency?

• FF backbenchers (preferably ones which were the second or third FF seat)
• Green Party TDs
• Independent/former PD who supports the government.

If so, talk to them and make it clear to them that their political career depends on them acting against the government at the earliest possible opportunity. Politics in Ireland is very local, use it if you can.

I don't think voting against Lisbon will bring down the government, it didn't do it the last time, why would it do it this time? Cast your vote based on the Treaty itself, long term that's the most sensible option.

You make fair points but your first one irks me. How many foreign investors do you think flocked to the US when the Golden Parachutes hit the fan? Similarly these Golden Handshakes of yours are going to be apparent to anyone ready to invest millions of dollars in your economy. Do you think the cost of civil demonstration is really going to be higher than FAS's travel budget?

Its a lot harder for these bastards to sleep at night if they have to wade through a picket line on the way to their leather thrones.

OldJay

FTA69 wrote: »

In fairness lad, university types and the upper-middle classes were never the main protaginists in Irish revolutionary endeavours

Lets start with some of the more famous, eh?
Patrick Pearse - Barrister (ex UCD, RUI and Kings Inns)
Robert Emmet - Trinity College alumni
deValera - Studied in RUI and then Trinity. Teacher in Blackrock College.
Wolfe Tone - Barrister (Trinity and King's Inns)

:rolleyes:

FTA69

optocynic wrote: »

Humanities course?
I thought you supported the RIRA?

I don't actually, but obviously the facts of the matter won't prevent you from talking through your hole.

optocynic

FTA69 wrote: »

I don't actually, but obviously the facts of the matter won't prevent you from talking through your hole.

Huh?.. OK! You did appear to be leaping to their defence in another thread. regarding Cork...

IRLConor

Overheal wrote: »

You make fair points but your first one irks me. How many foreign investors do you think flocked to the US when the Golden Parachutes hit the fan?

It's not just foreign investment though. I'd be wary of starting a business here if I thought there was a chance of sustained unrest.

The level of corruption in Irish politics at the moment would also be a negative factor. It certainly was a factor when considering tendering for some government contracts back when I had my own company.

Clean, stable government == good for business.

HashSlinging

I like this idea.

thebman

Overheal wrote: »

You make fair points but your first one irks me. How many foreign investors do you think flocked to the US when the Golden Parachutes hit the fan? Similarly these Golden Handshakes of yours are going to be apparent to anyone ready to invest millions of dollars in your economy. Do you think the cost of civil demonstration is really going to be higher than FAS's travel budget?

Its a lot harder for these bastards to sleep at night if they have to wade through a picket line on the way to their leather thrones.

In fairness, I think street protests send the message of political instability which will scare away potential investors in the Irish economy.

Mal-Adjusted

Deleted User wrote: »

Talk of a revolt is a bit nonsensical. Let's get a little bit real, there will be no hailing cobblestones and blood on the streets. What will happen is a swing from FF to FG. That's it...though if the OP takes that as a revolt you can be prepared for a big one!

in that case, the first things to go have to be party politics and personal loyalty to a party regardless.

shur that's a FF family...

mind what you say, you're in a FG town!...

i know plenty of fellas like this. the party leader could shoot their dog and rape their daughter, and they'd still vote for them over & over again. that thinking has no place in a modern state and has to go the way of the dinosaurs. Just what is so difficult about hiring the best person for the job, regardless of party?

there's also the thick as sh1te bogger attitude of "that other crowd could be ten times worse!" true, they could (though i'd take a government composed of Woody-Woodpecker, Spongebob & Bill O' Riley before our current ensamble cast of clowns) also be far, far better!

Overheal

thebman wrote: »

In fairness, I think street protests send the message of political instability which will scare away potential investors in the Irish economy.

I think a short period of instability that leads to a sustained period of growth is worth it in the end, vs. a sustained period of rampant corruption.

thebman

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

there's also the thick as sh1te bogger attitude of "that other crowd could be ten times worse!" true, they could (though i'd take a government composed of Woody-Woodpecker, Spongebob & Bill O' Riley before our current ensamble cast of clowns) also be far, far better!

Sorry that statement is just biased and shows how ignorant you are. That attitude is prevalent with many people from all over the country from countless different backgrounds in Cities, countryside, everywhere.

Cope on to yourself.

Overheal wrote: »

I think a short period of instability that leads to a sustained period of growth is worth it in the end, vs. a sustained period of rampant corruption.

Considering we should be able to get rid of corruption using our political process I don't see the point. We will most likely have an election before Christmas IMHO or after the next budget so we can vote for a party at that point and make sure cleaning up the system is on their agenda when they come to our doorsteps looking for our vote.

Mal-Adjusted

thebman wrote: »

Sorry that statement is just biased and shows how ignorant you are. That attitude is prevalent with many people from all over the country from countless different backgrounds in Cities, countryside, everywhere.

Cope on to yourself.

biased my arse. that kind of political loyalty is way more prevalent in the countryside where it's generally smaller more localised communities. yes, it's present in the cities as well, but that doesn't make what i said wrong.

Overheal

thebman wrote: »

Considering we should be able to get rid of corruption using our political process I don't see the point. We will most likely have an election before Christmas IMHO or after the next budget so we can vote for a party at that point and make sure cleaning up the system is on their agenda when they come to our doorsteps looking for our vote.

That being the case, if there is an election that close where the Voter gets to take part, I would go forward and prepare a publication. Write an editorial for your local paper, etc. and lay down the lies in the current ruling party point-for-point. Do what needs doing to get the word out to as many voters as you can. Pen or Picket. I say explore All avenues if you have a deadline coming up That close.

Mal-Adjusted

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

mind what you say, you're in a FG town!...

For a second I thought you knew where I lived!

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

i know plenty of fellas like this. the party leader could shoot their dog and rape their daughter, and they'd still vote for them over & over again. that thinking has no place in a modern state and has to go the way of the dinosaurs. Just what is so difficult about hiring the best person for the job, regardless of party?

And there are plenty that could watch FF bring peace to the North and perceived prosperity and maximum employment, but would never have voted for them because they despised them since the womb. Know plenty of fellas like this. The sort who think voting against FF every time makes them more intelligent.

Not sure about the reference to 'modern states'. Lots of 'modern states' have political parties with members. The US, Germany, France...in fact I'm trying to think of the 'modern state' where every representative runs as an individual and not part of a party machine and I'm failing. Name a 'modern state' please.

asdasd

Is this the kind of action the OP wants?

And there are plenty that could watch FF bring peace to the North and perceived prosperity and maximum employment, but would never have voted for them because they despised them since the womb

Yep. There is a class, and possibly a regional issue to that as well ( A Quasi racist one at that - the term "bogger" is supremicist). I vote around parties, and wont vote for FF again. But if some Dublin you starts talking about Boggers and FF, I get a bit more sympathetic to them.

The real problem with FF, in terms of corruption, by the way was the Dublin members.

back to the boom. The real cause of the crash is all the people who bought houses. No government could have stopped people, as any attempt to rail in the mortgages, or lending, would have caused a crash on the attempt. That is, if FF tried to stop 100% mortgages in 2003 it would have caused a less severe recession then, and the anti-FFs now would be out in force then. Arguing counter factual history ( if we didnt do this in 2003 it would lead to a bigger recession in 2006) would not work with most people.

Read this site for goddsakes. There were deniers of a bust up until this time last year.

asdasd

To reiterate. Stop blaming FF. If You bought a house it is your fault. Not only did you cause your own ruin, you were responsible for the bust.

fcussen

FTA69 wrote: »

In fairness lad, university types and the upper-middle classes were never the main protaginists in Irish revolutionary endeavours. I'm currently in a humanities course and half of my classmates are ignorant as sh*t about most things, they're far from being moulded into some sort of a left wing cadre by the bloody Arts department.

More or less every major revolution and social upheaval in modern history in every nation across the world (incl. Ireland) has been led by people from the more educated strata of society.

I agree with the second sentence tho; when I hear paranoid right-wingers talking about impressionable students having their heads filled with militant propaganda by leftie professors, I have a really hard time finding the people they're referring to in real life.

thebman

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

biased my arse. that kind of political loyalty is way more prevalent in the countryside where it's generally smaller more localised communities. yes, it's present in the cities as well, but that doesn't make what i said wrong.

I don't think it is, please provide evidence since your so sure. How many times have you actually been down the country and talked to these communities to find out that this is their attitude or are you just going on stereotypes?

dvpower

thebman wrote: »

We will most likely have an election before Christmas IMHO or after the next budget so we can vote for a party at that point and make sure cleaning up the system is on their agenda when they come to our doorsteps looking for our vote.

If we have an election before Christmas, we will vote for the parties that promise not to make any cuts or raise taxes (or more accurately, we will vote for the parties that promise to make cuts on others, and raise taxes on others).

Very few people will tell politicians on the doorsteps to cause us pain to balance the books.

thebman

dvpower wrote: »

If we have an election before Christmas, we will vote for the parties that promise not to make any cuts or raise taxes (or more accurately, we will vote for the parties that promise to make cuts on others, and raise taxes on others).

Very few people will tell politicians on the doorsteps to cause us pain to balance the books.

lol very few politicians will bring that up too I think you'll find.

Its up to the people in an election, if we do get one and still vote for the status quo then we will be 100% be getting what we deserve.

dvpower

thebman wrote: »

Its up to the people in an election, if we do get one and still vote for the status quo then we will be 100% be getting what we deserve.

That's what we have now!. The last election was only a couple of years ago and we voted for FF in numbers.

Mal-Adjusted

Deleted User wrote: »

For a second I thought you knew where I lived!



And there are plenty that could watch FF bring peace to the North and perceived prosperity and maximum employment, but would never have voted for them because they despised them since the womb. Know plenty of fellas like this. The sort who think voting against FF every time makes them more intelligent.

Not sure about the reference to 'modern states'. Lots of 'modern states' have political parties with members. The US, Germany, France...in fact I'm trying to think of the 'modern state' where every representative runs as an individual and not part of a party machine and I'm failing. Name a 'modern state' please.

that's a good point. blindly voting against a party is just as bad as blindly voting for one.

i used the term rather generally, didn't I? i guess i should have said "modern world"

DublinWriter

I think people are already in revolt considering that someone tried to petrol-bomb the Department of Finance last night.

I thought to myself that our best and greatest must be preparing for an emergency getaway when I watched the Government Jet fly over the Phoenix Park at lunchtime today at an altitude I'd best describe as a 'strafing run'.

Sir Oxman

thebman wrote: »

Considering we should be able to get rid of corruption using our political process I don't see the point. We will most likely have an election before Christmas IMHO or after the next budget so we can vote for a party at that point and make sure cleaning up the system is on their agenda when they come to our doorsteps looking for our vote.

That's just it though - the entire system is geared towards corruption exacerbated by the huge increase in quangos established by this crowd of gangsters in the main to dole out patronage to the clique. And of course, the clientelism ingrained in a substantial number of the electorate.

We have no leaders on any side of the House - not a peep from one of them to lead the nation, take the lead and show the rest of us that they too are prepared to take cuts in their income, instead we have prevarication, silence and dodging the issue and a miniscule amount of representatives who have agreed to reduce their grab from the state coffers, not one has stood up and produced receipts of their own volition in relation to expenses for instance, to lead and show the way.

None of them, in my eyes, would reform from top to bottom - it's too cosy, it's too comfortable, there's too much gravy in it for them to do that.

Some people say that we shouldn't get too het up and focused on these things, that it's a small drop in the ocean (representatives income/pensions/expenses) and body politic reform, but I say it's not - it's the absolute crux of what is wrong with the system in this country and nothing more than a major social upheaval is needed because the people 'representing' us
will not under any circumstances, change it.

Overheal

DublinWriter wrote: »

I think people are already in revolt considering that someone tried to petrol-bomb the Department of Finance last night.

I thought to myself that our best and greatest must be preparing for an emergency getaway when I watched the Government Jet fly over the Phoenix Park at lunchtime today at an altitude I'd best describe as a 'strafing run'.

Yep. How long is it until the country becomes unstable anyway? I think I'd rather organize protest rather than let all this building resentment toward the government go unchecked. Im sure your bomberman would have chosen the picket line before the pipe bomb - if only it was easier to find the picket line than it was to find the pipebomb. Sad.

Rebelheart

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

there's also the thick as sh1te bogger attitude of "that other crowd could be ten times worse!"

Just for the historical record:

Patrick Bartholomew Ahern
Liam Aloysius Lawlor
Raphael Patrick Burke
Charles James Haughey

were all elected, and consistently re-elected, in Dublin constituencies. As a poster above said it is sheer prejudice to contend that the Dublin electorate have some sort of morally superior principles at election time. As certain posters here affirm, they certainly have delusions of moral superiority over the barbarians out in the countryside. For the sake of historical tradition, let's politely call it the Pale mentality.

Rebelheart

asdasd wrote: »

To reiterate. Stop blaming FF. If You bought a house it is your fault. Not only did you cause your own ruin, you were responsible for the bust.

You are fundamentally misguided. I never bought a house during the boom and remained steadfastly "uncool" by living at home with the auld pair. I have stayed here in the hope that property prices will fall to a sane level and I can then by my home.


However, now, Fianna Fáil-The Republican Party is interferring in the erstwhile untouchable "free market" and propping up builders, banks and the entire property market (including all the "ordinary" arseholes who tried to keep up with the Joneses)- in fact, it has mortgaged Irish wealth for some time to come - through gambling on the hope that the property market will return to its former levels of 2006 and the like. In order to get taxpayers money back from the property industry it is now shaping economic policy, and thus the wealth of the taxpayers of Ireland, to advance another 'boom' in house prices.

In a nutshell: this government is using my taxes to subvent the property industry, keep property prices unreleastically high and promote the next boom. In the process of this socialism - corporate socialism - I am being further excluded from buying a home at a reasonable price. It makes me physically sick. How dare you pontificate that people like me are to blame for my current situation. I'm clearly smarter than the poor people who were duped at the top of the market, but the gombeen men have our collective taxes and are going to outsmart me with these policies, policies designed to bail out the gamblers and gangsters who are now in trouble yet who claim to be respectable members of Irish society while financially raping those of us who didn't get carried away. I include large swathes of middle class "respectable" Irish families in this, by the way.

All these people who took those risks will be looked after one way or another by the economic policy of pumping up house prices once again. People like me, people who did not cave into the social pressure to pay funny money prices for a home, will lose entirely because of this political intervention in the market.

Fianna Fáil, most particularly under the policiies of Patrick Bartholomew Ahern, have deeply shamed noble concepts like patriotism, republicanism and social justice.

PS: Not for a minute do I believe Fine Gael and Labour would be any better; both parties are opposed to a radical overhaul of their own expenses and abolition of the Seanad. They have no moral authority while they continue to look after their own political class so well.

scaredoflisbon

Re; rebelheart post.

think there are similarities with lisbon treaty and dublin mentality v the rest of the country.
life is grand in Cosyland ie dublin. you have it all on your doorstep, best of everything cos you have the biggest population. right? best schools hospitals, etc etc.
howwould you feel if you had to travel 40 miles on crap roads to visit a relative in hospital or 75 miles for cancer treatment?
living way beyond the pale meself these are my choices, just hope i get my heart attack between 9 and 5 cos i'll need to travel 40 miles to nearest A&E otherwise. but then if you live outside Dublin you have to make sacrifices if you want the best....(your centre of excellence is not built yet oops sorry) think that was a quote from one of those D4 intellectuals. worst he'll have to do is brave the dublin traffic to get to the Northside or the southside or whatever. poor baby.
oh and if ye live in Donegal then you re really f----d.

thebman

dvpower wrote: »

That's what we have now!. The last election was only a couple of years ago and we voted for FF in numbers.

Yeah but people still hadn't woken up to the extent of the problems back then. Now its clear as day.