oh dear god, Libertas at it again

The Volt

squod wrote: »

88 democratically elected TDs and 3 MEPs want you to pay for Anglo. Are they the ones you trust?

There are TD's in the Dail against NAMA that are pro Lisbon.

Basically voting no just to piss off the Government is almost like saying okay mister, you're after punching me so the best way to get you back is to punch myself in the face.

andrewdeerpark

Voltwad wrote: »

There are TD's in the Dail against NAMA that are pro Lisbon.

Basically voting no just to piss off the Government is almost like saying okay mister, you're after punching me so the best way to get you back is to punch myself in the face.

Agree entirely and remember the ECB is putting up the NAMA money at a very low interest rate. Europe is keeping up afloat at the moment, alone we would be like Iceland. I do not agree with NAMA or the government however I have always been pro-europe and see no reason to change this time about.

It seems to me the NO campaigns leaders have always been NO to Europe, we owe Europe everything for our progress and our independence from the English "hid tit" that we had pre EU membership.

As a small country we will always be dependent on larger countries for trade, support and investment. A NO vote will only drive us back to the English commomwealth, this is why Sinn Fein's NO stance is something I cannot grasp.

ei.sdraob

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

Agree entirely and remember the ECB is putting up the NAMA money at a very low interest rate. Europe is keeping up afloat at the moment, alone we would be like Iceland. I do not agree with NAMA or the government however I have always been pro-europe and see no reason to change this time about.

It seems to me the NO campaigns leaders have always been NO to Europe, we owe Europe everything for our progress and our independence from the English "hid tit" that we had pre EU membership.

As a small country we will always be dependent on larger countries for trade, support and investment. A NO vote will only drive us back to the English commomwealth, this is why Sinn Fein's NO stance is something I cannot grasp.

Sinn Fein's economics policies are truly baffling

their websites still claims they want to raise corpo tax to 20-30%

which would be economic suicide for this country

not only that but then they go harping about how EU would come along and increase our taxes :eek: truly baffling

thebman

Yes its funny that the no side is convinced the people going out of their way at an expense to themselves to keep us afloat are somehow part of a mad consipracy to screw us over as much as possible.

I think the world is much more boring than that TBH.

andrewdeerpark

Good to see the hedge fund backers behind Ganley exposed:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lisbon-treaty/ganley-admits-backer-bet-on-irish-bank-shares-falling-1898844.html

I wonder are they betting against the euro: a no vote would send the currency down in world markets making such hedge funds a lot of money, real right wing evil money men (only interested in their bonuses and keeping the strip clubs of London going), just what we all suspected what's behind Ganley.

OldJay

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

there's another version of the poster that has european democracy instead of irish democracy when I first saw it the first time I thought they might have changed the date on the irish one. Didnt get a close look so dont know what colour her eyes in that one are...

Yes it laughably gives us the mock-epitaph the death of "European Democracy" and its lifetime being "1945-2009".
Current EU countries during this 64 years timespan include Czech Republic and Slovakia (formerly Czechoslovakia), Poland, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Bulgaria, Hungary.

How stupid does someone have to be to think that the above countries were democratic during this time? How stupid do Libertas count on people being in order to fall for this utterly delusionary lie?

PopeBuckfastXVI

Just struck me this morning, on the way in to work...

Did someone from Libertas make that little girl cry just so they could get a picture of her?

ei.sdraob

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Just struck me this morning, on the way in to work...

Did someone from Libertas make that little girl cry just so they could get a picture of her?

they showed her the big EUthanasia needle

Stark

PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »

Just struck me this morning, on the way in to work...

Did someone from Libertas make that little girl cry just so they could get a picture of her?

"Somewhere there's a little crippled girl hoping you vote No on Friday. I know because I crippled her myself" </Mr.Burns>

prinz

andrewdeerpark wrote: »

Good to see the hedge fund backers behind Ganley exposed:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/lisbon-treaty/ganley-admits-backer-bet-on-irish-bank-shares-falling-1898844.html

You should also keep in mind that Declan Ganley over his business career has specialised in filling his pockets when national economies have hit a rocky patch, i.e. when the Soviet Union collapsed cha-ching, funny a few years later he turns up again just in time to cash in before the Albanian financial crash, cha-ching.....and now he's involved with the people who cashed in on the Irish banking crisis.....cha-ching.... familiar pattern emerging.

zenno

prinz wrote: »

You should also keep in mind that Declan Ganley over his business career has specialised in filling his pockets when national economies have hit a rocky patch, i.e. when the Soviet Union collapsed cha-ching, funny a few years later he turns up again just in time to cash in before the Albanian financial crash, cha-ching.....and now he's involved with the people who cashed in on the Irish banking crisis.....cha-ching.... familiar pattern emerging.

more f*cking whinging from the yes side again complaining about hedge funds, these hedge funds have nothing to do with lisbon can you not get that into your heads. you have wasted hours upon hours whinging about ganley and were he got his funding when it's bloody clear by now were he gets it. it's the corrupt piece of s*it FF that have being ripping off every irish person since the dawn of FF (fascist fools)imo. their the one's you should be barking at f*cking yes men.

Sam Vimes

zenno wrote: »

more f*cking whinging from the yes side again complaining about hedge funds, these hedge funds have nothing to do with lisbon can you not get that into your heads. you have wasted hours upon hours whinging about ganley and were he got his funding when it's bloody clear by now were he gets it. it's the corrupt piece of s*it FF that have being ripping off every irish person since the dawn of FF (fascist fools)imo. their the one's you should be barking at f*cking yes men.

We are barking at them but they're not the only people that support the treaty:

Alliance for Europe
American Chamber of Commerce
Barnado's
Concern(NGO)
Construction Industry Federation (CIF)
Consumer Electronic Distributors Association (CEDA)
Cork Chamber of Commerce
Cork City Business Association
Dublin Chamber of Commerce
Dublin City Business Association
Engineers Ireland
Fashion & Footwear Federation
Financial Services Ireland
Fine Gael
Galway City Business Association
IBEC
ICMSA
ICT Ireland
ICTU
INO
Institute of Chartered Accountants in Ireland
Institute of Professional Auctioneers and Valuers
Irish Banking Federation
Irish Congress of Trade Unions
Irish Consultative Committee of Accountancy Bodies
Irish Dairy Industry Association (IDIA)
Irish Exporters Association (IEA)
Irish Farmers Association
Irish Fish Producers’ Organisation
Irish Franchise Association
Irish Hardware & Building Materials Association
Irish Hotels Federation (IHF)
Irish Medical Devices Association (IMDA)
Irish Sheep and Cattle Farmers Association
Irish Software Association (ISA)
Irish Taxation Institute
Irish Tourist Industry Confederation (ITIC)
Irish Travel Agents Association (ITAA)
Killybegs Fishermen’s Organisation
Labour
Limerick Chamber of Commerce
Limerick City Business Association
Network Dublin
North Dublin Chamber of Commerce
Pharmachemical Ireland
Progressive Democrats
Retail Ireland
SIPTU
Small Firms Association (SFA)
Society of Irish Motor Industry (SIMI)
South Dublin Chamber
Telecoms and Internet Federation (TIF)
Trocaire
Waterford Chamber of Commerce

meglome

zenno wrote: »

more f*cking whinging from the yes side again complaining about hedge funds, these hedge funds have nothing to do with lisbon can you not get that into your heads. you have wasted hours upon hours whinging about ganley and were he got his funding when it's bloody clear by now were he gets it. it's the corrupt piece of s*it FF that have being ripping off every irish person since the dawn of FF (fascist fools)imo. their the one's you should be barking at f*cking yes men.

The problem you have here is the No campaign is full of nut-cases and conspiracy theorists. So the most 'respectable' face of the campaign is Ganley. But it seems quiet apparent that Ganley isn't respectable and has plenty to be questioned about.

Of course no one should be basing their vote on Ganley or Fianna Fail, they should be doing so based on the contents of the treaty which is why I'm voting Yes.

zenno

Sam Vimes wrote: »

We are barking at them but they're not the only people that support the treaty:

well if thats all you yes men/women have, to disrupt the no camp by constantly claiming that ganley has done something illegal in his lisbon funding campaign then it sure makes your yes side seem impotent. time is closing in and i have a large majority no vote smiling down on you from this end. don't take my word for it but you will see what i mean come oct 2nd.

zenno

meglome wrote: »

The problem you have here is the No campaign is full of nut-cases and conspiracy theorists. So the most 'respectable' face of the campaign is Ganley. But it seems quiet apparent that Ganley isn't respectable and has plenty to be questioned about.

Of course no one should be basing their vote on Ganley or Fianna Fail, they should be doing so based on the contents of the treaty which is why I'm voting Yes.

negative. no.1 I can't bloody stand coir i know what their about and 2. when this treaty is demolished on friday you can then sit back and question yourself to the thinking of this, the majority voted no again so does that mean all the people that voted no are nuts, crackpots conspiracy theorists and what not. and then you will ask yourself is it me that is nuts crazy and the rest of ireland that voted no are compleatly sane and on the right level?

Sam Vimes

zenno wrote: »

well if thats all you yes men/women have, to disrupt the no camp by constantly claiming that ganley has done something illegal in his lisbon funding campaign then it sure makes your yes side seem impotent.

Sorry where did I say that?

Other people have said that I'll grant you but that's far from all we have. We have facts and common sense, the no side........doesn't

zenno

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Sorry where did I say that?

Other people have said that I'll grant you but that's far from all we have. We have facts and common sense, the no side........doesn't

the exact same answer i have heard since the first lisbon referendum till this day from the yes camp. funnily enough all you people have done is worsen your case as you spent more time and effort slagging off the no camp saying that you must be nuts or crazy to vote no. all your propaganda has not come to fruition at all it just shows how incompetent the yes side is in dealing with true truths.

prinz

zenno wrote: »

more f*cking whinging from the yes side again complaining about hedge funds, these hedge funds have nothing to do with lisbon can you not get that into your heads. you have wasted hours upon hours whinging about ganley and were he got his funding when it's bloody clear by now were he gets it. it's the corrupt piece of s*it FF that have being ripping off every irish person since the dawn of FF (fascist fools)imo. their the one's you should be barking at f*cking yes men.

Er, when the primary complaint of many people on the 'no' side is against FF ( see above ) and what they did to mismanage the economy, then it's perfectly normal to point out that some of people who gained massively from the collapse of the banks are now funding libertas. Perfectly normal in my book. FF weren't involved in the short selling of Anglo shares...

As for "it's bloody clear now here he gets it" - do you know something the rest of us don't?

Sam Vimes

zenno wrote: »

the exact same answer i have heard since the first lisbon referendum till this day from the yes camp. funnily enough all you people have done is worsen your case as you spent more time and effort slagging off the no camp saying that you must be nuts or crazy to vote no. all your propaganda has not come to fruition at all it just shows how incompetent the yes side is in dealing with true truths.

LOL

Through many mind numbing hours on this forum I have learned that a large section of the no side have no interest whatsoever in facts. The facts have been given over and over and over again but people simply refuse to accept them because they contradict the nonsense claims of a particular extremist group. Often people don't even realise the claims have some from these groups, they say things like "Oh I don't believe any of that nonsense about <X> but this treaty does <Y> and <Z>" when in reality both Y and Z are just as fictional as X. People have been fed so many lies about this treaty that they are prepared to believe anything bad about it and outright refuse to accept they've been lied to. I think it's pride myself, Rb wrestled with himself for a long time before he was man enough to realise he'd been taken in by these people and it was all misquotations, lies and scaremongering.

When someone posts a claim and you give them the irrefutable proof that it is nonsense, and they don't believe you because they think that the person who made the claim is trying to save them from the evil EU, all you can realistically do is show them that these people have only their extremist agendas at heart and will say whatever it takes to trick the Irish people into furthering their agenda.

So yes, the yes side spends time pointing out the bona fides of the no side or complete lack thereof because someone's ulterior motive is entirely relevant when trying to convince people they're lying but that is not to the detriment of promoting the benefits of the treaty and most importantly the truth

P. Breathnach

zenno wrote: »

... funnily enough all you people have done is worsen your case as you spent more time and effort slagging off the no camp saying that you must be nuts or crazy to vote no...

I get pissed off by people on the no side accusing all of us on the yes side of insulting them.

zenno

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I get pissed off by people on the no side accusing all of us on the yes side of insulting them.

isn't it so true, the same as the no side what they have to put up with from you. i am pro eu but i have absolutly no time for this treaty. we don't need it, and never will need it. don't make out that i am a conspiracy theorist because that is very far from the truth. I believe this country will manage economic recovery on it's own as the bloody treaty has nothing to do with creating jobs or in helping the economy, and i can hear all the noise in the background (you) saying i am wrong well just go ahead and whinge along with your song of propaganda you all have being spreading accross the board. no to lisbon. we don't need it and hopefully after this second rejection it will finally be over.

Sam Vimes

zenno wrote: »

isn't it so true, the same as the no side what they have to put up with from you. i am pro eu but i have absolutly no time for this treaty. we don't need it, and never will need it. don't make out that i am a conspiracy theorist because that is very far from the truth. I believe this country will manage economic recovery on it's own as the bloody treaty has nothing to do with creating jobs or in helping the economy, and i can hear all the noise in the background (you) saying i am wrong well just go ahead and whinge along with your song of propaganda you all have being spreading accross the board. no to lisbon. we don't need it and hopefully after this second rejection it will finally be over.

91% of economists, 90% of businesses, the majority of trade unions, retail Ireland, farmers groups, fishermans groups, multiple chambers of commerce, the Hotels federation, the small firms association (so much for big business), the Irish Exporters Association, Irish Franchise Association etc etc etc disagree with you and I think they know better.


But regardless, this treaty is not about economic recovery and that's not why it's needed. The EU needs this treaty, otherwise why would they spend all this time and effort writing it?

prinz

zenno wrote: »

i am pro eu but i have absolutly no time for this treaty. we don't need it, and never will need it.

Except, we do need it? Unless of course you are supporting the relegation of countries to the children's menu at the EU banquet.

zenno wrote: »

I believe this country will manage economic recovery on it's own

Who is putting up the money for NAMA? Who is covering the €400 m weekly shortfall in current government spending? Who is putting up the cash to improve our energy situation? We're doing this on our own are we?

Edit:- Sam don't forget the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Ireland/ or the CAI as they are now... and they know a thing or two about taxation etc.

molloyjh

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

what colour are her eyes in the european one? I have money running on blue.

And you'd be exactly right. The same kind of freaky blue as the freaky green ones in the OP. I've reached the point of Lisbon fatigue at this stage and have a hard time facing any of it, but those posters actually had me in hysterics laughing. I'm not sure that's what they were going for though......:D

P. Breathnach

zenno wrote: »

[written in response to me]
isn't it so true, the same as the no side what they have to put up with from you. i am pro eu but i have absolutly no time for this treaty. we don't need it, and never will need it. don't make out that i am a conspiracy theorist because that is very far from the truth. I believe this country will manage economic recovery on it's own as the bloody treaty has nothing to do with creating jobs or in helping the economy, and i can hear all the noise in the background (you) saying i am wrong well just go ahead and whinge along with your song of propaganda you all have being spreading accross the board. no to lisbon. we don't need it and hopefully after this second rejection it will finally be over.

It seems that you have no sense of irony.

Kindly show where I, as an individual poster on the yes side, have insulted you.

thetruthknower

Hey guys i have news for you.

It doesn't really matter that you bicker about these things. You are all serfs in the end of the day in the eyes of the european leaders and governments. Even you moderators for whatever reason you have been told to epouse the vantages of the yes vote(because without coincidence you get grants or whatever from the government). You guys are serfs too and you are being used. You will be discarded at ease once this election is over.

The thing is and the thing people without inside knowledge fail to realise is that the elite at the top don't care about you or your vote. You are a serf a moden day serf at that and your role is simply to do whatever your told or guided into believing via various state run agencies and yes even internet sites such as this.

I'll tell you that they view you like you would view a mouse in a maze that you put a piece of cheese into. At feeding time you just close off certain sections and they will run to the cheese every time.

The whole goal of lisbon is to create an unelected council of ministers in charge of every citizen in europe. You will have no say in any matters which will be decided by them. This includes habeas corpus, property/inheritence and tax laws and military consciption. The ownership of property will no longer be owned by you and will become the property of the superstate and that includes personal possessions. You will pay any taxes the council deems fit and you or fellow brethren will be expected to sacrifice your lives for the superstate under military engagements once the treaty is ratified. Now if you doubt any of this take it from me its all in the treaty terms and go and read it.

The reason people such as brian cowen and co espouse a yes vote is because they have been promised once passed they will have roles akin to dictators i.e not answerable to anyone on anything and not subject to the full rigours of public law which are protected by law under a republic. They are simply doing what their handlers in europe are telling them to do. It is as with the case of michael o'leary a selfish self interest coupled with the promise of untold powers that has them jumping for joy over the treaty. They care no more for the republic that our ancestors gave their lives for then you care for paying your taxes.

Its hard for people to swallow this given that they live their whole lives told that they are in charge of their destiny and that they determine who sits in government. The truth is you don't, you never did and it is they not you who determine the outcome of your life.

prinz

I think Jim Corr is back :rolleyes:

thetruthknower

Denial and ridicule are always the first step in the long road to acceptance. It'll take a while

Go read the treaty then come back to me and tell me if anything i say is untrue or cannot be unproven and therein lies the evidence my friend. Funny how i used to think corr was a loon too until i read the actual terms in the treaty and examined all the evidence for myself and not just believed blindly the words some state run agency or government minister.

Mr. Presentable

I thought Irish democracy started in 1922

prinz

thetruthknower wrote: »

Go read the treaty then come back to me and tell me if anything i say is untrue

What section of the Lisbon Treaty gives dictatorial like powers to Brian Cowen and friends?