Hate the English??

Jim236

617 wrote: »

On the subject of monarchies how is it that some of Europes best nations have held on to the Royal Families and are very proud of them ? Norway,Sweden and Denmark are model countries in Europe and have Royal heads of state,The Nederlands and Belgium also good examples and it is not so long ago that Spain restored its monarchy after having a bad time as a Republic.
Just a thought.

Belgium was on the brink of civil war last year because no government could be formed, and the 2 regions(Wallonia and Flanders) probably got as close as ever to full independence. Not the best example to use if you're trying to convince people that a monarchy is the way to run a country...

And the so called model Nordic nations you mention are a leading example in so many areas because of their governments, not their monarchies who are just figureheads and had no direct role in the running of their country.

Monarchies are not a good way to run a country because they are elitist in nature, they create different classes instead of treating everyone as equals, and do nothing but squander public money when they haven't even been elected to represent anyone.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

trad wrote: »

600 years is hard to forget

It obviously is, especially when you are out a couple of hundred years...

caseyann

mackeminexile wrote: »

Having read this thread I have to say that the premise of 'hating the English' is ridiculous. I am English, have lived here for over 9 years. During this time I have learnt of the history between the two countries which we were never taught at school. Yes things were done that should never have happened. I have had a number of incidents with people who took offense at me living in this country being an English c**t etc. I have always made the argument at this point that I personally wasn't involved in the past oppression etc. Also, I've had Irish people who I greqw to have friendships with refuse to consider me as English cos I am 'sound' as well as that I'm not really English because I'm from the North East! Hating the English people is stupid and will not gain you anything as a person. Let go, by all means hate what happened. I do for most of the empirical behavior but I can also remember that it was done at a different time. Does anyone hate the Romans etc for their conquest?

We cant there is none to take it out on

On another note seriously people treated you bad because you are English,well that's whole other side of the coin.:mad:
Sorry for some arsh we have here.

me_right_one

Elliemental wrote: »

Oh really? I doubt that the vast majority of English people know what happened on 12thJuly, 1690! No, they don`t represent me, or anyone else I know English or Irish. But, I always got the impression that they (Orangemen), although identifying themselves as British, I understood that to different altogether to English. I mean they have thier own (made up, imo!) language (Ulster Scots), thier own traditions and their own sense of cultural identity that has little or nothing to do with Englishness.

I fully agree. Hardly anyone on Earth would know what happened that day, but for that fact that these vile human beings continue to mock the fact that a group of pro-Irish soldiers were beaten in a ****ty battle by a group of pro-english soldiers. As for the language, sure Gaelic is the native language of both Ulster and Scotland, so I dont know where they think they're going with that one!

Yet these people call themselves British and associate themselves with all things british and anti-Irish. We get this in our faces every year, on top of all the history, recent and old, and the fact that presently britian still controls one quarter of our country. Ordinary Irish people know that the vast majority of English people are just like you, normal and sound. But one cant help but feel a little resentment when those orange scum are spewing anti-irish ****e while waving union-jacks around when they know how wrong they are!

617

Jim236 wrote: »

Belgium was on the brink of civil war last year because no government could be formed, and the 2 regions(Wallonia and Flanders) probably got as close as ever to full independence. Not the best example to use if you're trying to convince people that a monarchy is the way to run a country...

And the so called model Nordic nations you mention are a leading example in so many areas because of their governments, not their monarchies who are just figureheads and had no direct role in the running of their country.

Monarchies are not a good way to run a country because they are elitist in nature, they create different classes instead of treating everyone as equals, and do nothing but squander public money when they haven't even been elected to represent anyone.

I think Civil War in Belgium is putting it a little strong ! As regards the Nordic countries yes the Royal families are figureheads with no real power. Does the British royal family have a real power,I dont think so. As regards the costs there are significant costs for presidents as well. Do we not pay more for a President than the US, we have a Taoiseach paid 3 times that of the prime minister of Finland, can we afford that ?

Jim236

617 wrote: »

I think Civil War in Belgium is putting it a little strong !

Maybe, but my point is its not a good example to use if you're trying to convince people that countries with monarchs are model nations.

617 wrote: »

As regards the Nordic countries yes the Royal families are figureheads with no real power. Does the British royal family have a real power,I dont think so.

No the British royal family has no power either, but I didn't see Swedish troops killing 13 innocent civilians in Derry and then having their Queen give them medals for their 'bravery'.

617 wrote: »

As regards the costs there are significant costs for presidents as well.

Yes but at least a President is democratically elected by the people, and doesn't just inherit a throne and all it's perks just because they happened to be born into a particular family.

617 wrote: »

Do we not pay more for a President than the US, we have a Taoiseach paid 3 times that of the prime minister of Finland, can we afford that ?

Our Taoiseach is also paid more than the US President, which is a farce and no Taoiseach should ever be paid that much in the good times, nevermind the bad. But thats got nothing to do with this thread.

Elliemental

me_right_one wrote: »

I fully agree. Hardly anyone on Earth would know what happened that day, but for that fact that these vile human beings continue to mock the fact that a group of pro-Irish soldiers were beaten in a ****ty battle by a group of pro-english soldiers. As for the language, sure Gaelic is the native language of both Ulster and Scotland, so I dont know where they think they're going with that one!

Yet these people call themselves British and associate themselves with all things british and anti-Irish. We get this in our faces every year, on top of all the history, recent and old, and the fact that presently britian still controls one quarter of our country. Ordinary Irish people know that the vast majority of English people are just like you, normal and sound. But one cant help but feel a little resentment when those orange scum are spewing anti-irish ****e while waving union-jacks around when they know how wrong they are!

I should also have said in my post, that a lot of ordinary English people such as myself, believe that the continuing occupation of the six counties to be morally wrong, and would be in support of re-unification.

djScarey

I think the type of Englishman that people hate is almost an extinct species. When anyone talks of hating English people in this day and age, they are talking of hating someone who has multiple backgrounds, including that of generational experience of being on the wrong side of cultural and racial oppression and colonialism. Fact: Mohammad (-ed) is the second most common first name of new-borns in England over the last 15 years. It's hard to hate someone who's not sure who he is anymore.

Data_Quest

me_right_one wrote: »

I fully agree. Hardly anyone on Earth would know what happened that day, but for that fact that these vile human beings continue to mock the fact that a group of pro-Irish soldiers were beaten in a ****ty battle by a group of pro-english soldiers.

The Battle of the Boyne was not a simplistic battle between the English and the Irish. There were English on both sides supporting either the former King of England James and the Dutch usurpor William of Orange. To add to the anomolies there were Dutch Catholics in William's army and Protestents supporting James. However, most of the Catholic Irish supported the former Catholic King of England and most of the Protestant Irish supported the Protestant William. To add to the many anomolies of this conflict James' daughter Mary was married to William of Orange.

Sir Oxman

To answer the OP - No.

Elliemental

these vile human beings continue to mock the fact that a group of pro-Irish soldiers were beaten in a ****ty battle by a group of pro-english soldiers.

I`m not sure whereabouts in Ireland you`re posting from, or whether or not you`ve ever experienced a 12th July, but I have as I live on one of the main parade routes and have experienced several 12ths now.
You know how you get loads of Unionist politicians on the news banging on about what a lovely, family-friendly carnival atmosphere there was? I dread to think what carnivals they go to! The typical 12th begins with a drunken crowd gathering to watch a huge parade of Orangemen and bandsmen march down the road, beating out a discordant cacophany of lambeg drums and tuneless pipes. Over the top of all this, the aforementioned mob adds to the `carnival` atmosphere by singing various sectarian songs, and pro-paramilitary chants. They end the `celebrations` by throwing glass bottles at the police.

If I had children, I would get them as far away from here as I could on the 12th. I dread to think what its` like in nationalist areas.

Kalashnikov_Kid

I don't hate the English.

But I do hate their colonial history. I hate the selective reasoning used by many to excuse this history. I hate bigots. I hate racists. I hate being at the butt end of predicatable Paddy/potato jokes. I hate having to explain to people that there is no place called Southern Ireland and that yes indeed we are in the Euro. I hate myself and my hometown being labelled in a derogatory manner (many times by Irish too funnily enough). I hate the way many view nationalism as a dirty word. I hate the condescending post-colonial attitudes of many English people I experience in day-to-day life. I hate having being refused work in the past mainly on the basis that I may be white enough, but not quite English enough. I hate the racist bile that passes for news on the Daily Mail/Express, and the fact that thousands of English believe in this.

But I understand now that much of this is in fact not deliberate ignorance but as a result of a genuine ill-educated and insecure viewpoint. What people forget that the average English person knows jack about their history and that the little they know is one-sided, but often they genuinely don't know any better. The British psyche in general is largely a superiority complex. Still p1sses me off at times though.

jackson2009

like what is said above i hate their colonial and imperialist history and some of there policys still up to this day, i dont hate english ppl though

Terrontress

Isn't it the other side that throw the bottles and stones?

I haven't really experienced those marches other than being caught out in the car in Belfast when a parade is passing but I think your description is quite apt. I've also seen a Republican equivalent in Newry and can't say it is any different from the vantage of the car.

Thing is though, Northern Ireland get one more public holiday as a result. And I'd gladly let the Taliban walk up O'Connell Street to get a free day off work in the middle of the summer!

Happy Monday

Elliemental wrote: »

I should also have said in my post, that a lot of ordinary English people such as myself, believe that the continuing occupation of the six counties to be morally wrong, and would be in support of re-unification.

A lot of people -

Over 90% of people in the Republic voted to leave the North as British until a majority there decides otherwise.

The fact is that very few people would now view NI as part of the UK as wrong.

Elliemental

Terrontress wrote: »

Isn't it the other side that throw the bottles and stones?

I haven't really experienced those marches other than being caught out in the car in Belfast when a parade is passing but I think your description is quite apt. I've also seen a Republican equivalent in Newry and can't say it is any different from the vantage of the car.

Thing is though, Northern Ireland get one more public holiday as a result. And I'd gladly let the Taliban walk up O'Connell Street to get a free day off work in the middle of the summer!

LOL! Yeah, I suppose we do get that extra day off, and it is appreciated.
Anyone can throw bricks and bottles, though. Last year, they lured the police into a little enclosed park space opposite my flat, and then proceeded to hurl bottles at them. That was shortly after one of the bandsmen had suddenly leapt into the crowd and started to kick eleven layers of sh!t out of one the spectators.

A lot of people -

Over 90% of people in the Republic voted to leave the North as British until a majority there decides otherwise.

The fact is that very few people would now view NI as part of the UK as wrong

I`m sure people in the Republic did vote that way, people in England have never had a say, and most just want shot of the place, simply because it has caused them nothing but grief (ie bombs in London, Warrington etc, etc), and many genuinely believe it to be morally wrong too.

Kalashnikov_Kid

Happy Monday wrote: »

The fact is that very few people would now view NI as part of the UK as wrong.

Got a link for that 'fact' of yours?

ejmaztec

I think that, were they to hold a referendum in the UK on the NI question, the British people would drop the place like a hot brick.

sneakerfreak

hate the english establishment not the english people,they were never fully informed on what was being done over here

Dozen Wicked Words

ejmaztec wrote: »

I think that, were they to hold a referendum in the UK on the NI question, the British people would drop the place like a hot brick.

I'm not sure a vote would go that way. Day to day, English people don't care about the whys and what fors of the Norths politics, but given a bit of jingoistic stirring by Cameron/Tories, UKIP, Daily Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun Sky News I think the old Empire Spirit would come out and Billy Britain would vote to keep Northern Ireland.

By the by, the English working class/under class during times of the Empire didn't benefit one iota from what the Master class did to other countries, they lived in the same squalid conditions of those in Dublin/Dehli and other British outposts.

617

gambiaman wrote: »

To answer the OP - No.

Best post on the thread 10 out of 10. Everyone else, including myself, went off at tangents, now we are back to the same old NI v RoI.

Kold

I still don't feel comfortable wearing my England football jersey around.

mike65

mackeminexile wrote: »

. Does anyone hate the Romans etc for their conquest?

Sorry but that could not pass without this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExWfh6sGyso

Happy Monday

Kalashnikov_Kid wrote: »

Got a link for that 'fact' of yours?

Yes - the results of the referendum on the GFA in 1998 which copperfastened NI's place in the UK.

Over 90% of people voted and over 90% of those accepted this FACT.

Obviously you voted no and good luck to you but people in the South accept NI's place in the UK.

Kalashnikov_Kid

Happy Monday wrote: »

Yes - the results of the referendum on the GFA in 1998 which copperfastened NI's place in the UK.

Over 90% of people voted and over 90% of those accepted this FACT.

Obviously you voted no and good luck to you but people in the South accept NI's place in the UK.

So by that rationale you expect 93% of Irish people to vote no to a referendum for unification with NI...

I think you would find that the GFA was a peace process more than anything else.

anplaya

Grimes wrote: »

When the Norse came in and raped your Irish women and stole your stuff in the 10th century were you hating on the Swedes? Dublin, Waterford, Limerick are Norse towns afterall. 1000 years of Swedish occupation of Ireland imo. Swedes out.



hahah oh my. Shouldnt you go back to watching Hannah Montana, tomorrow is a schoolday so you wont get the chance

eh?waterfords a viking town,settlers were actually danish.norse came after the vikings,norse were norweigan.:rolleyes.

galwayrush

Kold wrote: »

I still don't feel comfortable wearing my England football jersey around.

Hmm, maybe it's the wrong size for you? :pac:

ejmaztec

dooferoaks wrote: »

I'm not sure a vote would go that way. Day to day, English people don't care about the whys and what fors of the Norths politics, but given a bit of jingoistic stirring by Cameron/Tories, UKIP, Daily Mail/Express/Telegraph/Sun Sky News I think the old Empire Spirit would come out and Billy Britain would vote to keep Northern Ireland.

By the by, the English working class/under class during times of the Empire didn't benefit one iota from what the Master class did to other countries, they lived in the same squalid conditions of those in Dublin/Dehli and other British outposts.

After listening to all of the comments, from the countless number of people that I've discussed it with over the years (after I was born there:D), not one single person has ever wanted to keep it, and those people were from all kinds of religious and political backgrounds. The general consensus is that NI is a pimple on the arse of humanity. It would be like demolishing a lab after a failed experiment.

I know about the economic and social history of Britain, and Ireland (thanks to some Cork priest guy who was a history teacher back in the UK). Both countries would benefit, were each of them to learn the other's history as well as their own. As you pointed out, the ordinary man under the thumb of the Empire, didn't get a look in, when the big knobs were sharing the spoils. And like here, the Catholics also got a raw deal. I get the impression that a lot of people here, don't realise that there were any Catholics outside Ireland.

Jim236

Happy Monday wrote: »

A lot of people -

Over 90% of people in the Republic voted to leave the North as British until a majority there decides otherwise.

People in the Republic voted to concede the claim over the 6 counties(a condition of the GFA), they had no vote on the GFA itself.

Happy Monday wrote: »

The fact is that very few people would now view NI as part of the UK as wrong.

Just because you don't see it as wrong doesn't mean most other people agree with you.

cruiser178

Rabies wrote: »

Its an example of how hatred builds in people

thats a load of bull**** and you it.If you want to have a debate about foreigners coming into the the country start a new thread,i'll happly go down that road with you.