For The Love of God Educate Yourselves :(

dceire

P. Breathnach wrote: »

You are not being made vote again; you are being given another opportunity to vote. You are free to stay at home.

Are you a politician by any chance? becasue you certainly sound like one :rolleyes: I'm sorry but two words come to mind with that response, bull and ****!

The new voting cards should look something like this...
Your options are:

Yes _ or Yes _

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Consider the possibility that we did indeed get it wrong. I certainly have that opinion.

That's your opinion, an opinion that obviously wasn't shared by the voting public last time round.

Plotician

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Confused about Lisbon?

checkout The Lisbon Treaty 2009 Referendum Commission's Official Site

for impartial and clear information


.

as stated on a previous post, it isn't clear:

You are being asked to decide whether or not to change the Constitution of Ireland to:

• continue the present arrangements for Ireland’s military neutrality.

I never really worked out what that one meant. I was told it was a 'statement', 'badly worded', and generally challenged for querying it.

To my mind it's asking me to decide on changing the constitution without telling me whether a yes or a no to Lisbon will continue the present arrangements for Ireland's military neutrality.

Read the treaty is what i say.

Plotician

I notice that Ben Dunne was proposing a 'no' in the first round with the slogan 'If you don't know vote no'.See he's supporting a 'yes' this time as he believes everyone is now educated about the treaty.

Dilemma?

BlitzKrieg

Plotician wrote: »

I notice that Ben Dunne was proposing a 'no' in the first round with the slogan 'If you don't know vote no'.See he's supporting a 'yes' this time as he believes everyone is now educated about the treaty.

Dilemma?

could be evidence for the whole *change your mind* thing I've been hearing about these days

It seems you dont have to believe one thing and stick to it forever.

K-9

dceire wrote: »

I hope I'm not crashing this thread or anything but with the sheer volume of threads on Lisbon its hard to know where to go & i didn't want to start yet another thread.

Anyway, at the moment I am still unsure as to how I will vote. While I am slightly leaning towards the yes side at the moment I am still pissed that they are making us vote again as if we got it wrong the first time.

While I accept that most of the public 'No' campaign is based on scare mongering I would be inclined to vote 'No' if, as suggested in several quarters, there is a genuine threat to our constitution.

I would be grateful if someone could answer this question for me:
Would voting 'Yes' give EU law prevalence over Irish law (the constitution) in any area(s)?

I would add it is unfair we vote again, would say the same if it was Yes last time and voting gain, but it isn't undemocratic. Democracy does not equal fairness.

Now, It will give EU Law supremacy over Irish law in certain cases and areas. That is no different to previous Referenda.

Now, one thing, it certainly does not mean we will not have another Referenda as some claim.

I would say to a few Yes posters on here, some posts aren't helping. Not everybody is Politics.ie shills and treating them as such, puts them off.

I know it can be hard to bite the tongue sometimes, but most No voters are not Libertas, SF or COIR. They are genuinely worried and scared.

1. Because of the Economic Circumstances.
2. Because of No Campaigner lies.

Plotician

I suppose the question to ask of all participants here (in all honesty) is - what percentage of the population do you think have read the treaty and formed their opinion from the treaty itself?

Personally i'd say probably in excess of 80% have formed their opinion based on the opinion of others.

P. Breathnach

dceire wrote: »

Are you a politician by any chance? becasue you certainly sound like one :rolleyes:

Which one do I sound like? [I am having dreadful thoughts: do I come across like Willie O'Dea, or Mary-Lou McDonald, or Pat Rabitte, or Enda Kenny, or Dick Roche, or ... ? Oh, the horror of it!]

I believe that participants in discussions like this should declare their interests, and if I were a politician, I would have said so. I have never been a member of a political party, nor have I ever sought (let alone held) a political office. I am not a member of any political campaign group in relation to Lisbon; I have taken part in some political campaigns in the past, but none connected with any aspect of EU membership. I am a decided yes voter, something that is probably evident to many regular participants here. Is that clear enough?

I'm sorry but two words come to mind with that response, bull and ****!

In what way is it bull**** to invite you to see the second referendum in a different way? The "forced to vote again" image is the way that no campaigners represent things; those on the yes side see Lisbon 2 as an opportunity for us to change our decision in the light of, among other things, the guarantees given by our EU partners.

That's your opinion, an opinion that obviously wasn't shared by the voting public last time round.

Is that meant as an argument against what I said, when the import of what I said is that I thought we (meaning the majority of those who voted) had got it wrong?

There seems to be a good chance that we will vote yes this time, which could be interpreted as the electorate now taking the same view that I have.

P. Breathnach

Plotician wrote: »

I suppose the question to ask of all participants here (in all honesty) is - what percentage of the population do you think have read the treaty and formed their opinion from the treaty itself?

I am one of what I believe to be a small number, probably no more than a few thousand, who have read the treaty. Even then, I did not form my opinion solely on that reading; I was greatly helped by some informed commentators. I don't love everything about Lisbon, and I don't love everything about the EU. On balance, however, I see so much that is good that I am prepared to put up with a few bits I am less enthusiastic about. In addition, I do buy into the idea that a good relationship with our EU partner states is important, and that is a bad idea to screw up Lisbon over trivial issues or over distortions of what the treaty aims to do. Reworking the amending treaty is such a cumbersome prospect that we should not foist it on everybody without substantial cause, and I don't see anything of sufficient substance to justify it.

Personally i'd say probably in excess of 80% have formed their opinion based on the opinion of others.

I'd say, of those who have an opinion, it's probably much higher than that. Many of those have adopted positions based on irrelevant issues, and other have based their positions on falsehoods that they have believed.

JamesFinnegan

Don't think democracy suits us, lads, hah?

The Volt

JamesFinnegan wrote: »

Don't think democracy suits us, lads, hah?

You must not have got to the first page of this treaty.
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62281122&postcount=10

There are good reasons why this kind of referendum is not allowed in certain countries.