Dwight Yorke on Keane Management [mod warning post #42]

Chucky the tree

While Keane might not of spend a huge amount of money to get sunderland up, his squad was still top class for the championship. Liam Miller, Kenny cunningham, Stephen Caldwell, rory Delap, Danny Collins, Carlos Edwards, Stephen Elliot, sylastan Varga, Nyron Nosworthy, Ross Wallace, Dean Whitehead, Stern John, Grant Leadbitter, Liam Lawerence, Dwight yorke, Clive Clarke and a few other decent quality players. People make far to much of a big deal about the fact that he took they over after 4 Championship games when there's still 42 left to be played.

Boggles

Chucky the tree wrote: »

People make far to much of a big deal about the fact that he took they over after 4 Championship games when there's still 42 left to be played.

It was a big deal, as it had never been done before, even more impressive when you consider it was his first gig.

Funny how people belittle what he did saying he had 42 matches left, but the same people are calling for his head now all though there is 38 matches left.

Mr Alan

is anyone calling for his head in this thread?

think most are just saying they don't rate him as a particularly good manager.

Chucky the tree

Boggles wrote: »

It was a big deal, as it had never been done before, even more impressive when you consider it was his first gig.

Funny how people belittle what he did saying he had 42 matches left, but the same people are calling for his head now all though there is 38 matches left.

There also hadn't been a squad as good as there's in the championship before. There's been far more impressive achievements in the championship then Keane winning the league with one of the best Championship squads ever. I'm not calling for his head, keep him on I say. Free money backing any team Ipswich play.:pac:

kryogen

Chucky the tree wrote: »

There also hadn't been a squad as good as there's in the championship before. There's been far more impressive achievements in the championship then Keane winning the league with one of the best Championship squads ever. I'm not calling for his head, keep him on I say. Free money backing any team Ipswich play.:pac:

The Sunderland squad when Keane took over was not exacly the same squad as the one that won the league so if you are going to say that it was one of the best championship squads ever then you would surely have to applaud Keane for the signings he made to make it one of the best squads the champioship had ever seen but applauding Keanes transfer dealings isnt that popular.......even though overall he has a good record regardless of what people might like to think

Lemlin

Kingp35 wrote: »

You can't compare Leeds and Sunderland. We were in serious trouble financially so much so that all of our parachute payments had to go towards paying debts, we had to sell ALL of our players except Gary Kelly, had no money to bring anyone in except on free transfers and everyone knew we were either going into administration or going out of existence.

Sunderland had plenty of money to spend because of the parachute payments which already gave them a HUGE advantage over the other clubs, and didn't have to sell their entire squad which failed in the Premiership but was still a strong Championship quality squad.

People are making it out as if Sunderland were in serious trouble when Keane took over. They had a dodgy start but had an awful lot going for them compared to most of the other teams.

Sunderland had a very dodgy start which followed a terrible season before. They may not be comparable to Leeds but they are comparable to Derby and the likes of Reading.

I don't buy this line that Sunderland were a team which would have been one of the favourites to or should have bounced right back up. Maybe before the season they were but not after 5 games. The rot had started to set in and just look at Derby - they couldn't buy a win because the players had got so used to losing and had a highly rated, experienced manager in Paul Jewell.

Reading went down with Steve Copell, another experienced manager. They kept the vast majority of their players, had taken the PL by storm only two seasons before and were favourites to bounce back up but where are they now?

Keane had to get alot of players in on free transfers and on loan. If the Sunderland squad had been so good, it wouldn't have required these players.

Keane made shrewd signings like Graham Kavanagh, Dwight Yorke, David Connolly and Jonny Evans on loan, among others.

I'm not saying Keane is a top manager but what I am saying is the start to his career is hardly a failure.

Lemlin

Quint wrote: »

Proof? Are you serious?:D Just use your brain! They have more money than almost anyone in that division. Of course that doesn't guarantee promotion. It was well done, but a lot seem to make a big deal of the fact they were bottom, as if it was some managerial masterclass that was almost impossible.
I'm not going through every relegated team over the last 10 years, Sunderland are a yo yo team and had plenty of parachute payments as well as premiership money over the years. I'm just saying getting them to win the championship isn't a big deal.

Yes, I am serious. You made a rash statement about Sunderland being favourites to go up even though they were bottom of the league after 5 games. I'd like to see your proof of this. Obviously you can't provide any. As Pighead points out above, Ipswich were one of the favourites but they hardly are now.

Read Kingp35's post. Leeds wasn't a bog standard relegation, they sold almost all their players due to bad financial management. And got Venables in!

So what about Reading and Derby? The two examples I have given above. Why didn't they bounce back then?

Ehh, I'm sure you could find a better example of a freak result! Everton finished 5th last year, Blackburn finished 15th. Everton beating them 3-0 at home wasn't a huge suprise. Sunderland had lost a load of games before that too. Hence second from bottom and keane jumping ship.

Grand so. Arsenal who finished fourth last season beat Everton who finished fifth 6-0. That freaky enough for ya. As another poster pointed out above, when Keane left, Sunderland were only 4 points off going up to 9th or 10th, hardly a catastrophe.

Look at the way Paul Ince left Blackburn last year and there's a catastrophe. Or the way Alan Perrin left Pompey.

OK then, spurs were a top 5 team and bought player that was a proven premiership goal scorer. Big difference comparing that to a newly promoted team spunking money on proven failures or unknowns.

Where did you get this term spunking? It sounds more like something associated with the sex forum than the soccer one

I'll ask again. have you figures for how much Keane spent that season? He spent 14 million on average per transfer window. As I've illustrated, other PL teams spent that on one player at the time, whether they were 5th or 15th. How much were Portsmouth spending on the likes of Jermain Defoe at the time?

Craig Gordon wasn't regular last season, or this season. Do you seriously think Ferdinand and richardson were worth it? Go to a west ham message board and find a thread about the Ferdinand deal. Most will say that if they got 4m they'd be doing well and thought christmas had come early.

Gordon wasn't regular was he not:

From Wikipedia:

Even though £9 million was spent on Gordon, Sunderland manager Roy Keane wasn't afraid to drop him to the bench, after Sunderland's 7–1 thrashing by Everton in December, Welsh goalkeeper Darren Ward took his place. However, he soon regained his place as first choice goalkeeper three games later, ending the 2007–2008 season with an impressive turn of form

He also missed some games last season because of injury. As for Ferdinand, go to any fan messageboard and you'll see people say they are happy to see so and so go. The Blackburn fans say it about Santa Cruz and Bentley now, the United fans say it about Tevez and so on. Carrick isn't worth 16 million but clubs pay over the top for young English players and Keane fell into that trap.

Look, I'm not going through the terms of every players contract. If you think Keane did well in the transfer market, fair enough. Agree to disagree.

I don't think he did well but I don't think he did half as badly as some, like you, are trying to make out.

Have you tried google?

No access in work. I only have the joys of a few sites like Boards to keep me going.

3 good signings from about 40 players isn't exactly great! And a stretch with Andy Reid. Jones cost £6m. Don't think they'd make a profit on that. Can't find a figure on Malbranque. Knowing Keanes dealings it was probably about £25m

There were other good signings but I just chose to highlight those three. Is Kenwyne Jones not the player that clubs like Villa and Spurs were said to be offering 9 to 11 million for? Malbranque was part of a 7 million deal that included Chimbonda and Tainio.

Not bad business considering that they got 2.5 million off Blackburn for Chimbonda so Malbranque and Tainio cost 4.5 million.

I admit and have admitted above that Keane bought poor players like McShane but I think every manager makes poor signings but the vultures are always waiting around to attack Keane and say he was a "chequebook manager". The fact is he wasn't. He got Sunderland out of the Championship on 7 million. 4 million spent at first and then another 3 million in January to try and prepare the team for the PL.

He then spent another 60 million and kept them there two seasons. He did buy flops but a sizeable majority of players he bought were still in the team on Sunday, including 5 of his signings and 2 of the subs that came on. 5 of the 7 subs were also signed by him.

What's going on here is typical of what goes on in the media. Whenever Keane does something wrong, the same old 'seasoned' pros are rolled out to criticise him - Tony Cascariono, Jason McAteer etc. Lads who Keane never liked or got on with in the first place. Lee Sharpe tried the same and now Yorke is trying to sell his book off Keane's reputation. Yorke is also dragging Fergie and Jordan into it too. I'm sure plenty of other forgotten United players will do the same.

I'm not a United fan or a Keane fan but I just think people are all too ready to criticise his achievements.

Lemlin

Chucky the tree wrote: »

While Keane might not of spend a huge amount of money to get sunderland up, his squad was still top class for the championship. Liam Miller, Kenny cunningham, Stephen Caldwell, rory Delap, Danny Collins, Carlos Edwards, Stephen Elliot, sylastan Varga, Nyron Nosworthy, Ross Wallace, Dean Whitehead, Stern John, Grant Leadbitter, Liam Lawerence, Dwight yorke, Clive Clarke and a few other decent quality players. People make far to much of a big deal about the fact that he took they over after 4 Championship games when there's still 42 left to be played.

Players Keane brought in that you named above:

From earlier list of 06-07 signings:
Kenny Cunningham - Free
Clive Clarke - Undisclosed fee
Stanislav Varga - Signed
Ross Wallace - Signed
Dwight Yorke - £200,000
Liam Miller - Free
Graham Kavanagh - £500,000
David Connolly - £1,400,000
Marton Fulop - £500,000
Carlos Edwards - £1,400,000
Anthony Stokes - £2,000,000
Stern John - Signed


You named 16 players there. 8 of whom Keane got in. Don't see your point in saying he had a top class squad if 50% of these were players Keane had to get in himself?

He had a top class Championship squad because he assembled half of it. On 4 million pounds I might add.

Chucky the tree

Lemlin wrote: »

Keane made shrewd signings like Graham Kavanagh, Dwight Yorke, David Connolly and Jonny Evans on loan, among others.

Didn't he play just 10 games for Sunderland that season?

Lemlin wrote: »

Players Keane brought in that you named above:

From earlier list of 06-07 signings:
Kenny Cunningham - Free
Clive Clarke - Undisclosed fee
Stanislav Varga - Signed
Ross Wallace - Signed
Dwight Yorke - £200,000
Liam Miller - Free
Graham Kavanagh - £500,000
David Connolly - £1,400,000
Marton Fulop - £500,000
Carlos Edwards - £1,400,000
Anthony Stokes - £2,000,000
Stern John - Signed

Kenny Cunningham was signed by Quinn.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/s/sunderland/5166460.stm


Clive clarke was signed by Quinn/part of the exchange for Georgr McCartney going the other way.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/w/west_ham_utd/5255232.stm


Also, to say for just £4million is a bit of a stretch, you're discounting wages which would of given sunderland a huge advantage over any other championship club as well.

Chucky the tree

Threw away a 2 goal lead tonight and now there rock bottom. I feel for the tactics board right about now.

Lemlin

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Didn't he play just 10 games for Sunderland that season?

He played 14 games and played a vital role in the majority of them. He was only missing for others because of injury problems. 500k wasn't a bad fee at all for a player of his experience who had played at international level.

Kenny Cunningham was signed by Quinn.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/s/sunderland/5166460.stm


Clive clarke was signed by Quinn/part of the exchange for Georgr McCartney going the other way.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/w/west_ham_utd/5255232.stm

I stand corrected. He still assembled six of the 16 players you named, quite a considerable amount. And I'd still argue that if the squad was that good he wouldn't of had to do that.

Also, to say for just £4million is a bit of a stretch, you're discounting wages which would of given sunderland a huge advantage over any other championship club as well.

Do you have any evidence to back this opinion up? Have you compared Sunderland's wage levels that year to other clubs in the Championship? Do you analyse the wage bill of every championship club who are promoted?

I love the way this argument is levelled at Keane here. Do you compare United's wage bill to Chelsea's when United finish above them in the table? Or do you compare Liverpool's to Arsenal's? No you don't because it's a dead duck argument but is one that you're happy to pull out when it suits.

Paying high wages does help but it doesn't guarantee success. It does put you at an advantage over other teams I admit (that's why the big four have an advantage) but you still need a strong character to lead the team. Are QPR not paying huge wages at the minute and still failing to have any notable success?

I'll also wait for the proof that Sunderland's wage bill was higher.

therecklessone

I can't work out if he's caused more rows as a player or as a manager...

The Muppet

therecklessone wrote: »

I can't work out if he's caused more rows as a player or as a manager...

Wait until he manages united if that ever happens, you mods will be on major overtime.

Lemlin

The Muppet wrote: »

Wait until he manages united if that ever happens, you mods will be on major overtime.

I can't see him ever managing United to be honest. Bruce or Moyes would be ahead of him in the pecking order if you ask me.

Mr Alan

Lemlin wrote: »

I can't see him ever managing United to be honest. Bruce or Moyes would be ahead of him in the pecking order if you ask me.

and Hodgson, O'Neill, Martinez, Zola among countless others.

Lemlin

Mr Alan wrote: »

and Hodgson, O'Neill, Martinez, Zola among countless others.

I'm talking about realistic options here.

Hodgson isn't a great example to bring up either. Have a look at his Blackburn career if you want to see a manager who left a team in dire straits and wasted money.

Zola hasn't exactly set the world alight at West Ham either. Did they not pay 9 million for a teenager that they have now loaned back to Italy? 9 million is a consiederable amount for West Ham.

And did Martin O'Neill not pay 5 million for Marlon Harewood? And 5 million for Zak Knight? He has also paid 12 million for Stewart Downing and he hasn't even kicked a ball for the club and won't until 3 to 4 months into the season.

Every manager buys their fair share of duds, even the most successful ones. Just ask Fergie about Kleberson or Wenger about 18 mil on Reyes or 10 mil on Jeffers.

Mr Alan

I'm not doubting that every manager has bad buys, but i think the managers i've listed are all superior to Roy at the moment.

Lemlin

Mr Alan wrote: »

I'm not doubting that every manager has bad buys, but i think the managers i've listed are all superior to Roy at the moment.

Martin O'Neill is managing since 1987:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_O%27Neill

Roy Hodgson is managing since 1976:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Hodgson

If those two weren't better than Keane, with decades of experience, there'd be a major problem.

What exactly are so fantastic about Martinez's achievements? He won League One. Keane won the Championship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Martinez

I also don't see what Zola has done that has been so fantastic with West Ham:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gianfranco_Zola


Perhaps you could enlighten me as to why you'd put Zola and Martinez above Keane?

The Muppet

Lemlin wrote: »

I can't see him ever managing United to be honest. Bruce or Moyes would be ahead of him in the pecking order if you ask me.

He certainly wouldn't be in contention at the moment but that's ok as there's no vacancy. If he were to turn thing around at Ipswich and make a name for himself over the next few years he could very well be a contender when the position becomes available.

Mr Alan

Lemlin wrote: »

Martin O'Neill is managing since 1987:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_O%27Neill

Roy Hodgson is managing since 1976:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Hodgson

If those two weren't better than Keane, with decades of experience, there'd be a major problem.

What exactly are so fantastic about Martinez's achievements? He won League One. Keane won the Championship.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roberto_Martinez

I also don't see what Zola has done that has been so fantastic with West Ham:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gianfranco_Zola


Perhaps you could enlighten me as to why you'd put Zola and Martinez above Keane?

since when O'Neill & Hodgson are managers from is irrelevant. they are far superior to Roy Keane as managers, thats all that matters surely?

re: Zola, he comfortably kept west ham up last season, playing some excellent football.

Martinez is pushing it obviously, but if he continues his good start at PL management, i'd rate him far higher than Roy.

Quint

Lemlin, EVERY manager has some bad buys. It's just keane just has a massive percentage of them. Comparing wenger because of a few dodgy buys (reyes was 10m btw, and sold for 8.1m) is mental!
The bottom line is, Keanes team he spend £70m on were second from bottom when he walked out. Any reports I've read have said the players were delighted when he went. And I can't imagine many Ipswich fans delighted with their performances this season. When he walks out I can't imagine many other fans would want him to manage their club. Would you?

Lemlin

Mr Alan wrote: »

since when O'Neill & Hodgson are managers from is irrelevant. they are far superior to Roy Keane as managers, thats all that matters surely?

re: Zola, he comfortably kept west ham up last season, playing some excellent football.

Martinez is pushing it obviously, but if he continues his good start at PL management, i'd rate him far higher than Roy.

It is relevant because one of them has 20 years of experience and the other has 30. Keane has three. He's still learning.

Yes, he kept them up but they haven't set the world alight. I wouldn't rate him or Martinez any higher than Keane. People were actually saying how dodgy Wigan had looked before the weekend.

Lemlin

Quint wrote: »

Lemlin, EVERY manager has some bad buys. It's just keane just has a massive percentage of them. Comparing wenger because of a few dodgy buys (reyes was 10m btw, and sold for 8.1m) is mental!
The bottom line is, Keanes team he spend £70m on were second from bottom when he walked out. Any reports I've read have said the players were delighted when he went. And I can't imagine many Ipswich fans delighted with their performances this season. When he walks out I can't imagine many other fans would want him to manage their club. Would you?

I stand corrected on Reyes. It could have risen to 17 so I was wrong.

But I still think Keane's poor spending is a myth. Where's this massive percentage of bad buys? I've also asked people for how much many of these players were sold on for - for example, Chimbonda, McShane and Diouf were all sold on for fees of 1 million plus so some of this 70 million did come back in.

Also, players like Jones, Malbranque, Reid, Ferdinand and Gordon are still playing regularly in the side.

I don't think 70 million is all that much in the bigger picture of things. Like I've said, clubs like Spurs were spending 16 million on one player at the time. Look at the way Pompey were left. Sunderland were still fit to go out and spend 20 million plus on players this Summer so Keane certainly didn't get Sunderland into any sort of mess like they have at Pompey.

He got the club up to the PL and kept them there. He spent 14.5 million on average over 7 transfer windows. I don't think its groundbreaking stuff to be honest.

Xavi6

Lemlin wrote: »

Hodgson isn't a great example to bring up either. Have a look at his Blackburn career if you want to see a manager who left a team in dire straits and wasted money.

Didn't Hodgson guide Blackburn to a 6th place finish and the Uefa Cup in his first season there? Chris Sutton bagged 18 league goals under him in 1997/98.

Yes they started the second season badly but firing Hodgson was a mistake imo, especially when you consider they replaced him with Brian Kidd.

The only money he really wasted was on Kevin Davies, though he was very young at the time and has since developed into a solid player so the potential was obviously there. The likes of Stephane Henchoz, Christian Dailly and Nathan Blake were signed by Hodgson and were good players for Rovers.

Pighead

Quint wrote: »

Any reports I've read have said the players were delighted when he went.

I'm guessing you don't read too many newspapers then.

Dwight Yorke: Shocked and saddened to see Roy leave
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Dwight-Yorke-shocked-by-Roy-Keane-s-decision-to-leave-Sunderland-article34600.html

Anthony Stokes: Playing under Roy Keane, for example, was a great experience.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/scotland/article6808700.ece

Anton Ferdinand: "It was a big upset for me," he added. "It was a sad day for me to see him go but, in that short space of time I worked with him, I learnt a lot. I learnt about professionalism and how to prepare for games. Just through the way Roy Keane talked, I got mentally stronger. He showed me the things you need to be a top player and I thank him for that."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...premier-league

The Muppet

Keane spent around £60 million on players which is not a lot of money when it comes to buying pro footballers. He really had to build a squad from scratch .

The Muppet

Xavi6 wrote: »

Didn't Hodgson guide Blackburn to a 6th place finish and the Uefa Cup in his first season there? Chris Sutton bagged 18 league goals under him in 1997/98.

Yes they started the second season badly but firing Hodgson was a mistake imo, especially when you consider they replaced him with Brian Kidd.

The only money he really wasted was on Kevin Davies, though he was very young at the time and has since developed into a solid player so the potential was obviously there. The likes of Stephane Henchoz, Christian Dailly and Nathan Blake were signed by Hodgson and were good players for Rovers.

Do you honestly think Hodgson will ever be offered the managers position at manchester united?

Xavi6

The Muppet wrote: »

Do you honestly think Hodgson will ever be offered the managers position at manchester united?

No, purely because of his age. He is tactially one of the best managers about. His Fulham side is very sound in terms of organisation and he gets the best from players. Since he's gone there the job he's done has been excellent.

If he was fifteen years younger then I think he would be a better shout for United than the likes of O'Neill.

Have a listen to The Times podcast this week. Marcotti basically says the same thing as myself about Hodgson, only he probably puts it better.

therecklessone

Mr Alan wrote: »

re: Zola, he comfortably kept west ham up last season, playing some excellent football.

Hang on a second, you can't have it both ways...Keane had a good basis to build on at Sunderland when he took over, as had Zola at West Ham.

Zola has West Ham in the bottom 3 now, albeit cos he's been hampered by the need to cut wages at West Ham.

There are no objective criteria on which you can base the statement that Zola is a better manager than Keane, certainly not at this early stage in their careers.

therecklessone

Xavi6 wrote: »

No, purely because of his age. He is tactially one of the best managers about. His Fulham side is very sound in terms of organisation and he gets the best from players. Since he's gone there the job he's done has been excellent.

+1

Royston's real failing IMHO is the signing of players like Diouf and Chimbonda then being surprised when they turn out to be troublemakers. Players like that have a reputation for a reason, and no amount of stare downs or destroyed tactics boards will change that. For a man who prides himself on his own professionalism (and was happy to comment on others' as a player) that seems odd.

I think he'll live to regret walking out on Sunderland, he should have stuck around and turned their season around.

Lemlin

Xavi6 wrote: »

Didn't Hodgson guide Blackburn to a 6th place finish and the Uefa Cup in his first season there? Chris Sutton bagged 18 league goals under him in 1997/98.

Yes they started the second season badly but firing Hodgson was a mistake imo, especially when you consider they replaced him with Brian Kidd.

The only money he really wasted was on Kevin Davies, though he was very young at the time and has since developed into a solid player so the potential was obviously there. The likes of Stephane Henchoz, Christian Dailly and Nathan Blake were signed by Hodgson and were good players for Rovers.

Henchoz was a good signing but that was about it.

Blake was a poor signing who cost £4.25 million and scored 3 goals in one season in the PL. He followed this up with 9 goals over the following two seasons in the first division so he averaged 4 goals a season over 3 seasons. He was then sold for 1.5 million.

Davies was bought for £7.5 million and scored one goal in the season where Blackburn were relegated. As part of the deal, James Beattie also went the other way. So Southampton got 7.5 million and James Beattie for a player who scored one goal in the season. Now's that what you call a catastrophic transfer!

How do you make out Dailly was a good signing? He cost £5.35 million and played just 17 times in the season he arrived when Blackburn were relegated. Souness shipped him out the minute he arrived. He was sold for 1.75 million.

He also paid £4 million for Martin Dahlin and look how that ended:

Dahlin transferred from AS Roma to Blackburn Rovers in mid-1997 and made 21 appearances in the 1997-1998 season, scoring 4 goals.

In the 1998-1999 season, he only played 5 games when an injury in a training game ruled him out for the rest of the season and contributed to his retirement from the game after a short spell at Hamburger SV in 1999.

I can't remember any of his other signings but none were a success and alot of them were why Blackburn ended up in the first division.

Lemlin

Xavi6 wrote: »

No, purely because of his age. He is tactially one of the best managers about. His Fulham side is very sound in terms of organisation and he gets the best from players. Since he's gone there the job he's done has been excellent.

If he was fifteen years younger then I think he would be a better shout for United than the likes of O'Neill.

Have a listen to The Times podcast this week. Marcotti basically says the same thing as myself about Hodgson, only he probably puts it better.

So were United going to take him after he finished his job at Blackburn then? Read my list of his transfers below. Hodgson had his chance at a big PL club (Blackburn were fairly big at the time, winning the PL two seasons before) and he blew it.

Xavi6

You're a Blackburn fan so obviously you know better than me but I just rate Hodgson very highly as a manager.

Just a couple of things though -

Lemlin wrote: »

He also paid £4 million for Martin Dahlin and look how that ended:

A striker scores 1 in 5 in his frst half season (how many of those were sub appearances?), and then suffers an horrendous injury that basically ends his career and it's Hodgson's fault?!

I can't remember any of his other signings but none were a success and alot of them were why Blackburn ended up in the first division.

Appointing Brian Kidd had Blackburn in the First Division. Hodgson was sacked in November 1998. Had plenty of time to sort things out, and I think he would have.

Lemlin

therecklessone wrote: »

+1

Royston's real failing IMHO is the signing of players like Diouf and Chimbonda then being surprised when they turn out to be troublemakers. Players like that have a reputation for a reason, and no amount of stare downs or destroyed tactics boards will change that. For a man who prides himself on his own professionalism (and was happy to comment on others' as a player) that seems odd.

I think he'll live to regret walking out on Sunderland, he should have stuck around and turned their season around.

I think though he was hoping that the likes of Diouf could be a poor man's Yorke. Keane was used to seeing Fergie take in troublemakers (Cantona) and playboys (Yorke) and turning them around and perhaps he thought he could do the same. That was his mistake though.

I think he didn't have a working relationship with the new owner so he walked. He probably saw it as the best solution to the mess he was in.

I still think if he gets Ipswich back to the Premiership in the next three seasons it'll be a success.

Xavi6

Lemlin wrote: »

So were United going to take him after he finished his job at Blackburn then?

I said fifteen years ago. At that stage he was about to be appointed Inter Milan manager. If he was good enough for them.....

Lemlin

Xavi6 wrote: »

You're a Blackburn fan so obviously you know better than me but I just rate Hodgson very highly as a manager.

Just a couple of things though -



A striker scores 1 in 5 in his frst half season (how many of those were sub appearances?), and then suffers an horrendous injury that basically ends his career and it's Hodgson's fault?!



Appointing Brian Kidd had Blackburn in the First Division. Hodgson was sacked in November 1998. Had plenty of time to sort things out, and I think he would have.

Dahlin played 27 games for Blackburn and scored 4 goals. He was a flop long before any injury occured. He had peaked at the '94 World Cup and had flopped since and 4 million was way too much for him.

Hodgson has to take some of the responsibility. He left Blackburn rooted to the foot of the table and, as I've shown, he wasted huge amounts.

Pighead

therecklessone wrote: »

+1

Royston's real failing IMHO is the signing of players like Diouf and Chimbonda then being surprised when they turn out to be troublemakers. Players like that have a reputation for a reason, and no amount of stare downs or destroyed tactics boards will change that. For a man who prides himself on his own professionalism (and was happy to comment on others' as a player) that seems odd.

Who says he was surprised when they turned out to be troublemakers? They were calculated gambles. There have been plenty of instances of managers buying bad boys and it worked out pretty well for them. Paolo Di Canio and Nicolas Anelka are two that spring to mind.

Quint

Pighead wrote: »

I'm guessing you don't read too many newspapers then.

Dwight Yorke: Shocked and saddened to see Roy leave
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/news/Dwight-Yorke-shocked-by-Roy-Keane-s-decision-to-leave-Sunderland-article34600.html

Anthony Stokes: Playing under Roy Keane, for example, was a great experience.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/football/scotland/article6808700.ece

Anton Ferdinand: "It was a big upset for me," he added. "It was a sad day for me to see him go but, in that short space of time I worked with him, I learnt a lot. I learnt about professionalism and how to prepare for games. Just through the way Roy Keane talked, I got mentally stronger. He showed me the things you need to be a top player and I thank him for that."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...premier-league

Do you really believe a player giving an on the record soundbite to a reporter on the day Keane was sacked would say anything other than the above clichés?

Read what Dwight Yorke said in the OP. Players were delighted when his car wasn't at the training ground.

And http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/sunderland/3551680/Sunderland-players-celebrate-after-Roy-Keane-resigns-Football.html
Incidently, he's not to popular at Portman Road:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1172967/Keane-appointment-welcomed-Portman-Road.html

The Muppet

Xavi6 wrote: »

No, purely because of his age. He is tactially one of the best managers about. His Fulham side is very sound in terms of organisation and he gets the best from players. Since he's gone there the job he's done has been excellent.......................................

I agree with you post entirely, he is an excellent Manager. One more question.

Do you think Roy Keane could/would every be offered the Managers position at United if there was a vacancy.

Xavi6

The Muppet wrote: »

I agree with you post entirely, he is an excellent Manager. One more question.

Do you think Roy Keane could/would every be offered the Managers position at United if there was a vacancy.

Right now no. I have seen nothing to suggest that he would be able to succeed in the role.

He is young and has time on his side but if he walks away from Ipswich I don't see why any top club would touch him.

Mr Alan

not a snowball in hells chance.

The Muppet

Xavi6 wrote: »

Right now no. I have seen nothing to suggest that he would be able to succeed in the role.

He is young and has time on his side but if he walks away from Ipswich I don't see why any top club would touch him.

Again I agree but as I said earlier if he turns things aroiund at Ipswich he could well be in contention.

To cut to the chase, there is no way Hodgson has a better chance than Roy Keane of being appointed United manager somwhere in the future.

Pighead

Quint wrote: »

Do you really believe a player giving an on the record soundbite to a reporter on the day Keane was sacked would say anything other than the above clichés?

Read what Dwight Yorke said in the OP. Players were delighted when he car wasn't at the training ground.

And http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/sunderland/3551680/Sunderland-players-celebrate-after-Roy-Keane-resigns-Football.html
Incidently, he's not to popular at Portman Road:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1172967/Keane-appointment-welcomed-Portman-Road.html

Ha! Classic! So you question Pighead's sanity for believing newspaper stories with quoites directly from the players involved and in the next breath you throw up two links with quotes credited to "SOURCES" and expect everybody to take it as gospel! And by the way the quotes from Stokes and Ferdinand are from well after Keane left. The Stokes comments are from a few weeks back.

Mr Alan

The Muppet wrote: »

Again I agree but as I said earlier if he turns things aroiund at Ipswich he could well be in contention.

To cut to the chase, there is no way Hodgson has a better chance than Roy Keane of being appointed United manager somwhere in the future.

Whats you definition of turn things around?!

I'd imagine he'd need to bring Ipswich into contention for the Champions League places year & year to get a crack at the Utd job.

Quint

Pighead wrote: »

Ha! Classic! So you question Pighead's sanity for believing newspaper stories with quoites directly from the players involved and in the next breath you throw up two links with quotes credited to "SOURCES" and expect everybody to take it as gospel! And by the way the quotes from Stokes and Ferdinand are from well after Keane left. The Stokes comments are from a few weeks back.

Wasn't Dwight Yorke a player?

Pighead

Quint wrote: »

Wasn't Dwight Yorke a player?

Yep. A player who is desperately trying to flog a book and who insists he's a great dad to the kid he never sees. Personally I wouldn't take to much heed in anything somebody says when they've got a book to flog.

Quint

Pighead wrote: »

Yep. A player who is desperately trying to flog a book and who insists he's a great dad to the kid he never sees. Personally I wouldn't take to much heed in anything somebody says when they've got a book to flog.

So only your quotes count, and the telegraph made up stories! Come on, if you were a player, do you really think working under keane would be a happy experience? Of course players get paid a bag load of cash and should deal with whatever shite the manager throws at them, but it's understandable that they want a handy time of it too.

therecklessone

Pighead wrote: »

Personally I wouldn't take to much heed in anything somebody says when they've got a book to flog.

Unless they're "shocked and saddened to see Roy leave"?

Pighead

therecklessone wrote: »

Unless they're "shocked and saddened to see Roy leave"?

Not sure what you mean by that?
I'm saying I'd be more inclined to believe a players comments when he hasn't got a book to sell rather than when he has. Do you not think it strange that Yorke had a complete about turn in his opinions once it was time to flog his book?

Xavi6

The Muppet wrote: »

To cut to the chase, there is no way Hodgson has a better chance than Roy Keane of being appointed United manager somwhere in the future.

If Hodgson was younger then he would though. The only thing going against him really is age. Keane has that, but not the managerial skills.

Chalk and cheese really.