Refund for pre-paid tokens

nhughes100

Hi,

I'm attending a sporting event in a major Dublin Hotel's convention centre(will name if it's ok with the mods). I got my tickets posted to me last week with an interesting letter. It stated that money will not be accepted for drinks in the convention centre, there will be a means to exchange money for tokens outside(presumably a machine) which can then be used to purchase drinks at the event.

All of this sounds fine if a bit awkward but I've attended this event several times and the bars are always mental so they've obviously came up with this system to speed things up a bit. However, any unused tokens cannot be refunded! Now I am under the impression that with a valid receipt you should be entitled to a refund on pretty much anything? This to me is a rip off, people should be entitled to a refund, what use is the token once you go home?

Opinions please.

daheff

u got what you paid for. the token can be exchanged for alcohol if you wish (for a limited time). If you dont you keep the token.

nothing of a rip off to me here

nhughes100

What about being fit for purpose? If the token isn't used and I'm sure there'll be hundreds over the course of the week then you should be able to get a refund at the end of the night. It's no use to you then so it no longer fits the reason why you bought it.

Mr. Presentable

Just don't buy more tokens than you need.

daheff

nhughes100 wrote: »

What about being fit for purpose? If the token isn't used and I'm sure there'll be hundreds over the course of the week then you should be able to get a refund at the end of the night. It's no use to you then so it no longer fits the reason why you bought it.

it is fit for purpose...u just didnt use it within the allotted period

jor el

nhughes100 wrote: »

Now I am under the impression that with a valid receipt you should be entitled to a refund on pretty much anything?

No you're not. A refund will only be given if the product is defective in some way, or if the retailer has a policy that allows refunds for non-defective products. Unless they run out of drink, or refuse to give you drink in exchange for the token, then you've got no case. It's up to you to use the tokens, and ensure you have enough but not too much.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

It's not unlike Gift Vouchers that expire if not redeemed.

Why buy more than you needed in the first place?

PCPhoto

am I the only one that seems to agree with the OP ?

for example - you get €20 worth of tokens (for arguements sake 1 token = 1Euro)

you spend 15tokens ...and have 5 left over.... and cant get a refund on this ? (now lets imagine that there are 3000 people at the convention...each with 5 tokens left at the end.... thats a whopping €15K profit for the convention center as they refuse to exchange tokens back to cash)

dont amusement parks have a similar facility ? do they give reverse exchange too ?

OP.... it seems the convention centre has you by the proverbial short and curlys - you'll either have to put up and carefully monitor your token allocation or boycott the event.

PS. am interested in finding out where and what event this is ?

jor el

PCPhoto wrote: »

dont amusement parks have a similar facility ? do they give reverse exchange too ?

Often, yes. As long as they don't stop you from using the token though, there's nothing wrong. If you buy them, then use them. If you don't use them, that's your own choice.

nhughes100

Well I think they're asking for trouble on this one. Thanks for the really helpfull suggestion of "only buy as much as you need", jez would have never thought of that one.

Right the event runs from 6pm till about 11pm so about 2 drinks an hour(it's a darts event so there's gonna be more then that) I figure ten tokens will do me, so if I buy 12 just so I don't have to queue twice and to cover me for the night I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to expect to be refunded for the two or one I don't use.

Most people won't be aware of this rule so they're gonna get hundreds of drunks demanding money back. Or they're gonna get people who will say, well I paid for the drink I'm gonna drink them all. It's asking for trouble in my opinion and if it isn't illegal well it's somewhat immoral and taking advantage of people.

nhughes100

nipplenuts wrote: »

Just don't buy more tokens than you need.

Is there an award for most unhelpful reply?? do you know exactly how much drinks you're gonna have on a night out??

nhughes100

PCPhoto wrote: »

PS. am interested in finding out where and what event this is ?

Subject to a mod edit, it's the Skybet World darts grand prix in the brand new convention centre in Citywest. All the mod cons except cash registers.

dudara

I have no problem with you naming the event and location.

dudara

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Why not buy 5 tokens and get more if you need them? Big deal going to get the tokens twice. If it's a bother to do so then look on the surplus tokens as the cost of the convenience you have imposed for for yourself.

Elessar

As others have pointed out, since there is no defect in the "product" or lack of product (i.e. drink) this practice is not illegal. You're not entitled to a refund if you simply change your mind. I suggest you pace yourself for the five hours the event runs through. I can't speak for anyone else but I know how many drinks I can consume per hour.

jor el

nhughes100 wrote: »

I figure ten tokens will do me, so if I buy 12 just so I don't have to queue twice and to cover me for the night

So you might have to queue a 2nd time to get tokens, big woop. Would it be better to have to face a big queue each and every time you go to the bar?

nhughes100 wrote: »

Is there an award for most unhelpful reply??

How is answering the question with a reasonable suggestion, unhelpful? Buy tokens, use them, if you need more, buy more and use them. Repeat as needed.

I don't see what the big issue is with this. You know up front what the costs are, and that there's no refund on unused tokens. They're not trying to deceive you, nor are they doing anything illegal.

Mr. Presentable

jor el wrote: »

. They're not trying to deceive you, nor are they doing anything illegal.

To be fair, I actually sympathise with the OP. It is borderline sharp practise. The hosts know they'll get paid for a lot of drink they won't supply.

Bazzy

And if its the citywest they'll be charging you over the top prices for the drink as well you can be sure of that !!

(hides from jim mansfield's henchmen)

Nody

nipplenuts wrote: »

To be fair, I actually sympathise with the OP. It is borderline sharp practise. The hosts know they'll get paid for a lot of drink they won't supply.

Same is true for giftcards though and I can only recall one thread giving out about them (and that was over the shop closing down right after Christmas).

jor el

In fairness, it's the same with anything you buy. How often do you throw out spoiled food, because you bought too much, or didn't use it in time? You're not due a refund simply because you bought too much, or didn't use what you bought.

The tokens make it more efficient to run the bar. It's up to everyone to buy enough, but not too much, depending on their needs. I'm sure a lot of people will probably go mad and just buy loads, but that's their problem.

nhughes100

jor el wrote: »

So you might have to queue a 2nd time to get tokens, big woop. Would it be better to have to face a big queue each and every time you go to the bar?

How is answering the question with a reasonable suggestion, unhelpful? Buy tokens, use them, if you need more, buy more and use them. Repeat as needed.
.

Well I can imagine the uproar if this system was introduced at every pub in the country. Funny how every person I've mentioned this to in person has agreed with me but the keyboard warriors mainly don't.

The response wasn't a reasonable suggestion, I wasn't asking for advice on how to operate the tokens rather the legality of not offering a refund on an unused product.

The queues were bad last year and in previous years because there were too many people at the event and it was in the old event centre which wasn't built for catering upwards of 2000 people. You'd think the new centre would be. Imagine if this was the case for the boxing in the point last Saturday, Joe Duffy would be inundated with callers giving out about having worthless tokens in their pockets.

Nody

nhughes100 wrote: »

The response wasn't a reasonable suggestion, I wasn't asking for advice on how to operate the tokens rather the legality of not offering a refund on an unused product.

Which you where given several times but refused to accept that legally they are doing nothing wrong what so ever.

The queues were bad last year and in previous years because there were too many people at the event and it was in the old event centre which wasn't built for catering upwards of 2000 people. You'd think the new centre would be. Imagine if this was the case for the boxing in the point last Saturday, Joe Duffy would be inundated with callers giving out about having worthless tokens in their pockets.

And what would stop a person to go back there for another event and use up the spare tokens or give them to a friend going there? As for Joe Duffy, well, ask anyone working in customer complaints and you'll hear some good laughing about that one...

nhughes100

Nody wrote: »

Which you where given several times but refused to accept that legally they are doing nothing wrong what so ever.

And what would stop a person to go back there for another event and use up the spare tokens or give them to a friend going there? As for Joe Duffy, well, ask anyone working in customer complaints and you'll hear some good laughing about that one...

Eh kindly point out where I refused to accept that legally they are doing nothing wrong what so ever. In fact if you read my previous posts I actually admit it might not be illegal but is somewhat immoral.

This is the sort of nonsense responses that made me give up boards for the past 6 months. I really wasn't missing much. Ask someone in person and you don't get a bloody keyboard warrior response.

Nody

nhughes100 wrote: »

This is the sort of nonsense responses that made me give up boards for the past 6 months. I really wasn't missing much. Ask someone in person and you don't get a bloody keyboard warrior response.

Well apparently every person you asked "in person" did not know the law then and you're only left with us "keyboard warriors"...

jor el

nhughes100 wrote: »

This is the sort of nonsense responses that made me give up boards for the past 6 months. I really wasn't missing much. Ask someone in person and you don't get a bloody keyboard warrior response.

So because the people you talk to in person are possibly spineless and won't disagree with you, that makes the people here that are telling you what needs to be said "keyboard warriors"? Is it not possible that the people you spoke to are the warriors, encouraging you in a fight that does not exist outside your own head?

The problem you have is that they are refusing to issue a refund on unused tokens, right? It may not be very nice, but that's the same of any voucher you get. As long as you know the restrictions up front (which you do) then there's no excuse for being left with unused tokens. There have been many suggestions as to how you ensure this doesn't happen, either use them up, or don't buy so many.

wmpdd3

It's absolute crap that you can't get a refund for unused tokens but you need to complain to the organisers as apposed to buying the tokens and trying for a refund later on the basis of a poorly constructed legal argument.

If anything the practice is only moving the que form the bar to the token sales point.

How much does each token cost?

Does the same token buy you a pint or a vodka and a mixer?

Looks like the organizers have done this before so probably won't budge on the terms and conditions. Now let see how we could wind them up and possible make them reconsider their process.

If they have to put on extra staff to man or empty the token sales points, because people are buying 2 tokens at a time, they may see things differently.

nhughes100

jor el wrote: »

So because the people you talk to in person are possibly spineless and won't disagree with you, that makes the people here that are telling you what needs to be said "keyboard warriors"? Is it not possible that the people you spoke to are the warriors, encouraging you in a fight that does not exist outside your own head?

The problem you have is that they are refusing to issue a refund on unused tokens, right? It may not be very nice, but that's the same of any voucher you get. As long as you know the restrictions up front (which you do) then there's no excuse for being left with unused tokens. There have been many suggestions as to how you ensure this doesn't happen, either use them up, or don't buy so many.

Ah typed up a response but whats the fkn point.

BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Jev/N

nhughes100 wrote: »

What fkn planet do you live on? Yep all the people I talked to are really afraid of what I'll do to them if they don't agree with me so they all just agreed with me and incited me to look for legal opinion on an internet site just so I'd leave them alone. It's all the other fkn voices in my head that tell me to cause fights. The idiotic mentality of some people on this site does my head in.

YES keyboard warriors, guys who are really brave hiding behind their monitor. I asked for a legal opinion, all you've given is condescending nonsense. I never went looking for a fight as you so quaintly put it. I'm sure you suffer from a need to have the last say in every argument like most keyboard warriors, save yourself the bother I'm getting rid of my boards account. I'll stick to dealing with people in person, you should try it sometime.

I'd give you the same response face to face as would most, if not all, posters in this thread

jor el

nhughes100 wrote: »

Ah typed up a response but whats the fkn point.

BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Keyboard warriors, hoooo!

MunsterCycling

Its feckin Darts ffs who gives a cr@p!

MC