Using four axle stands

Voodoomelon

I've been using x2 Halfords axle stands for various mechnical jobs over the last year or so, but i'm about to change my differential oil and do a transmission fluid flush and need to have the car up in the air and it has to be level.

So i went out and bought two more matching stands so i can have all four holding up the car. Its only when I got them home that I read on the side of the box that four stands should not be used in this way to hold the car up.
It says: "Use no more than a single pair of axle stands" and shows a big X through a picture of a car raised up by four stands.

My question is why not? Each stand is rated to 1000kg and my car weighs 1930kg. Does this only refer to having the stands under the axles? Because I always use the chassis jack points to connect with the stands.

Thoughts?

colm_mcm

If you push the car forwards, the 4 stands could tip over.

peasant

colm_mcm wrote: »

If you push the car forwards in any direction, the 4 stands could tip over.

fixed your post

and if the surface where it stand on is the slightest bit uneven, it might even fall all by itself

colm_mcm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MxPoxxt7n0

Voodoomelon

I never considered that as the bases are triangular with circular feet with a diameter of about 9" across. But I suppose it could happen, I would have thought it would be rather unlikely though.

All pressure will be vertical, nothing lateral if you get me. Would the weight be okay?

Plug

Have it up in the air maybe throw a few bricks and the jack on the side your working. Im still alive!:pac:

colm_mcm

colm_mcm wrote: »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MxPoxxt7n0

goddamnit.. you got there before me!

Shires

Voodoomelon wrote: »

My question is why not? Each stand is rated to 1000kg and my car weighs 1930kg.

Jaypers, you're a braver man than I. I can't stomach crawling under the jammer when it's on jackstands alone and it only weights 1570kg.

For whatever it's worth: for raising the whole thing I would use ramps home made from chunky wood. Maybe that's unsafe but it seems OK to me. I don't use bricks or concrete slabs alone because I wouldn't be surprised if they split owing to uneven pressure. I've heard of driveways cracking under the pressure of a axle stand. When using axle stands I always put a jack under the car, and when possible I put the car's wheels under too, next to the stands.

Voodoomelon wrote: »

i'm about to change my differential oil

Doing mine this week too. Thankfully she has got a pert bum and there's just about enough space to do it without lifting. Result! :pac:

Ferris

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I never considered that as the bases are triangular with circular feet with a diameter of about 9" across. But I suppose it could happen, I would have thought it would be rather unlikely though.

All pressure will be vertical, nothing lateral if you get me. Would the weight be okay?

If you're using a trolley jack and it doesn't move as you lift you could tip the existing stands over. Nearly happend to me before.

high horse

You could try to make an extended version of the ramps in the link here:

http://www.mustangworld.com/ourpics/News/mwramps/index.htm

Voodoomelon

Ferris wrote: »

If you're using a trolley jack and it doesn't move as you lift you could tip the existing stands over. Nearly happend to me before.

My trolley always moves as it lifts the car, shouldn't be a problem.

Shires wrote: »

Jaypers, you're a braver man than I. I can't stomach crawling under the jammer when it's on jackstands alone and it only weights 1570kg.

For whatever it's worth: for raising the whole thing I would use ramps home made from chunky wood. Maybe that's unsafe but it seems OK to me. I don't use bricks or concrete slabs alone because I wouldn't be surprised if they split owing to uneven pressure. I've heard of driveways cracking under the pressure of a axle stand. When using axle stands I always put a jack under the car, and when possible I put the car's wheels under too, next to the stands.

Doing mine this week too. Thankfully she has got a pert bum and there's just about enough space to do it without lifting. Result! :pac:

What I plan on doing is driving the back onto blocks and putting the parking brake on. Then jacking each side of the front up individually and putting in the axle stands.
Then I stick the trolley under the back, under the diff and jacking up the rear and sticking the axle stands under. The blocks are to let me get the trolley under so I can get the rear up in one go.

Just got the diff oil from Opie today, eur50.00 for 2 litres delivered, this machine loves the expensive juice. ATF fluid is eur23.00 a litre.

Voodoomelon

high horse wrote: »

You could try to make an extended version of the ramps in the link here:

http://www.mustangworld.com/ourpics/News/mwramps/index.htm

Thats a great idea! I was thinking how wooden ones couldn't possibly work and then I saw that. Nice one.

beachlife

Voodoomelon wrote: »

I've been using x2 Halfords axle stands for various mechnical jobs over the last year or so, but i'm about to change my differential oil and do a transmission fluid flush and need to have the car up in the air and it has to be level.

So i went out and bought two more matching stands so i can have all four holding up the car. Its only when I got them home that I read on the side of the box that four stands should not be used in this way to hold the car up.
It says: "Use no more than a single pair of axle stands" and shows a big X through a picture of a car raised up by four stands.

My question is why not? Each stand is rated to 1000kg and my car weighs 1930kg. Does this only refer to having the stands under the axles? Because I always use the chassis jack points to connect with the stands.

Thoughts?

Why don't you just jack up the rear drain the diff overfill with oil,let the car down, put tray under the diff and take out the level plug ,when it stops dripping your at the right level....Or just get a clean container and measure what comes out the put the exact amount back in,either way you don't need the car on four stands!!

Voodoomelon

This isn't only for the diff, its for the transmission fluid swap too. I wanted a solution that would work for both and i'll be under the car for several hours with the ATF swap so I want something secure.

I'll go with the wooden ramps I reckon and then jack up the rear for axle stands.

JHMEG

If you have a load of spare wheels or blocks of timber you can pack them in around the car so that they'll catch it if it falls.

Voodoomelon wrote: »

ATF fluid is eur23.00 a litre.

Seems expensive. I just bought 3 litres of genuine OEM ATF-Z1 for €9.70 a litre.

Voodoomelon

Its Esso LT71141 and they only sell it in 20 litre drums.
And thats the Northern Irish price, BMW down here is 25% more.

Still trying to seek out a replacement fluid, I might be getting some Valvoline from Holland from a very kind forum member.

maidhc

JHMEG wrote: »

If you have a load of spare wheels or blocks of timber you can pack them in around the car so that they'll catch it if it falls.

Railway sleepers cut in about 1 foot blocks. Wonderful job... I have worked under an 8ton JCB with them!

vincenzolorenzo

Shires wrote: »

Jaypers, you're a braver man than I. I can't stomach crawling under the jammer when it's on jackstands alone and it only weights 1570kg.

He has 4 stands under a 1900kg car so each is only carrying ~475kg. Granted the two at the front would take a bit more load than the two at the back but still well below the 1000kg limit.

Shires wrote: »

I've heard of driveways cracking under the pressure of a axle stand.

Either that was a single stand supporting a lorry or else the driveway was plastered onto the ground!

Shires

vincenzolorenzo wrote: »

He has 4 stands under a 1900kg car so each is only carrying ~475kg. Granted the two at the front would take a bit more load than the two at the back but still well below the 1000kg limit.

Aye, but it's a weak system that relies on a lot of assumptions. E.g.

- there are no weak welds in the stands
- that bit of the drive isn't just an inch of concrete over soggy soil
- the wind is not going to gust hard, and nobody's going to lean on the car
- you're not going to shift the car when you're under there doing a Homer Simpson on the breaker bar cuz the drain plug is stuck :pac:

It could go wrong easily, and if it did one would get 1900kg of German engineering's finest right in the snot. Rather you than me, I'll play it safe!

Ferris

I rodded this from the classics forum, some interesting options for lifting your car (no use to op now I suppose )

http://www.cjautos.org.uk/phdi/p1.nsf/supppages/cjautos?opendocument&part=7

blahblah06

them wooden ramps look good but what if you want to work on the brakes or when the wheel is off you still need a jack stand

Voodoomelon

Well, I got the hammer out today and set to work on some very rough, but effective ramps. I found the strongest wood you can get down the side of the garden shed, a large cutoff of 2 inch thick worktop.



I still used axel stands at the front and towards the rear in case the ramps gave way.









Old stuff:



And new. 1.6 litres of Castrol 75w 140.





New drain and fill plugs. Heres one next to an old one:





I reckon I had quite a bit of fluid missing, as 1 litre drained out and it filled up with 1.6 litres as specified. The smell of old diff oil is awful!

Very worthwhile task.
ATF fluid is next.

bonzodog2

OK, very comprehensive pictures, but why do you think a new plug was needed ?

Voodoomelon

Standard procedure with me, if its old and has a seal, replace the whole lot. €6.00 for x2 OEM plugs and washers, can't go wrong.

E39MSport

Ferris wrote: »

If you're using a trolley jack and it doesn't move as you lift you could tip the existing stands over. Nearly happend to me before.

This happened me yesterday with my Amazon (2.9 ton) up on stands as I was taking it down. The trolley jack (although on runners) got bogged down and wasn't moving so pulled the car backwards as I lifted. When it came off the stands, it started to roll forward off the jack even though the wheels were chocked. Broke the top of the jack and fell to the ground. I had just put the wheels back on. Could have been very bad. The jack didn't damage anything when the axle fell off it.

CJhaughey

OP, Unless you are doing something that requires you to remove the wheels you are better off with them on blocks.
Axle stands can be lethal, You already have a trolley jack so just jack the car and put it on blocks rather than risking axle stands toppling over.
Those wooden blocks you made are plenty good enough just make two more and slip them under the front wheels while it is jacked up.

Voodoomelon

Indeed, it feels a lot safer on blocks off wood. The reason I reversed onto the ramps is because the parking brake and transmission locks the rear wheels, I didn't want the front wheels up there.

Blocks will work for the front wheels too, however i'll have to make stops for the top so that the car won't move about.

robtri

Nice job there.... fair fecks to you for doing it,
and a very nice motor.....

a bit late but worth mentioning, instead of axle stands for a job like this...
i would prefer these... car ramps...


1 tonne capacity each, and holds the car a lot more stable then axle stands...

they go for around €60-€70 a pair on ebay...

Voodoomelon

They have the exact same ones in Halfords for eur60.00. I dunno, theres something about them that I don't like.

johnny_adidas

had the ramps before and sold them on as they kept popping away from under the wheel when trying to drive onto them. the front axles stands could easily shift forward when u jack the back or vice versa. be safe about it whatever way u end up doing it and stick a concrete block or sound pieces of timber under all 4 wheels if they dont need to come off

high horse

Does the car feel any different to drive after changing the diff oil? Nice job on the ramps by the way, glad i suggested them

CJhaughey

robtri wrote: »

Nice job there.... fair fecks to you for doing it,
and a very nice motor.....

a bit late but worth mentioning, instead of axle stands for a job like this...
i would prefer these... car ramps...


1 tonne capacity each, and holds the car a lot more stable then axle stands...

they go for around €60-€70 a pair on ebay...

I have some of those and with the landcruiser front wheels on them the vertical sid support started to buckle, I had to weld another piece of flat next to it to make them stronger.

jasperok

what i have done is the past is put those mini drive up ramps under the rear wheels except pointing in opposite directions so it cant roll up or down - then i used axle stands under the front end.

Voodoomelon

high horse wrote: »

Does the car feel any different to drive after changing the diff oil? Nice job on the ramps by the way, glad i suggested them

Not sure yet, I drove a total of 1/2 a mile to work and back. Will be out driving in a bit though.

CJhaughey wrote: »

I have some of those and with the landcruiser front wheels on them the vertical sid support started to buckle, I had to weld another piece of flat next to it to make them stronger.

Thats exactly what I thought when I looked at them, they look structurally unsound. They may be grand for holding up one end of a Polo, but i'm not putting one end of my car over that.

Rowley Birkin QC

Good to hear it all turned out well. I've had a jack collapse while I was under a car before, pretty much kissed my axle stands after the initial shock wore off.

Worst thing was when I brought it back to the shop I bought it from, told the guy what had happened, I most definitely hadn't exceeded the weight capacity of the jack btw, he just shrugged his shoulders and said "we better have a look into that next week". Unbelievable.

Packattack

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Good to hear it all turned out well. I've had a jack collapse while I was under a car before, pretty much kissed my axle stands after the initial shock wore off.

Oh God, were you alright? Every home mechanic’s worst nightmare.

I had bought car ramps from a motor factors to save time re: all the jacking up etc, but I found them to be inefficient, so I ended up binning them. They’re awkward and dangerous to drive onto. Back to jacking up the car again for me. I slide in three solid concrete blocks each side after jacking up, it’s time consuming & a lot of lifting but worth it for me.

I wouldn’t trust axle stands, there’s something about them.

celica00

what I use to do is, to jack the car up, put the 4 axle stands underneath it and then additionally put old tyres for securing close to the axle stands to support the car in case the axle stand breaks. gives me peace and is double secure, also have plenty of tyres so at least get to use them that way

mgbgt1978

Packattack wrote: »

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Good to hear it all turned out well. I've had a jack collapse while I was under a car before, pretty much kissed my axle stands after the initial shock wore off.

Oh God, were you alright? Every home mechanic’s worst nightmare.

I think he's still in hospital.....5 years later

rex-x

That is one of the dodgiest setups I have ever seen the that wood under the rear wheels :eek:
The rule is two points of support at each corner before you go under the car, i see people using just axle stands when changing oil etc and it makes my stomach turn with the amount of cars I have seen fall from jacks and axle stands etc. It only has to happen once and you are dead.

lomb

Ive made these http://www.ttforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?p=678572
All you need is a chainsaw, an electric screwdriver, some screws and some timber from a builders merchant. About 25 euros worth.
They don't slip when driving on, will never fail like welds can, in fact nothing can go wrong.
If a wheel needs to come off then that side can be jacked with a trolley jack while on ramps and axle standed as well so double security.

Id never get under that 7 series on axle stands with 3 dodgy blocks of unscrewed timber. There is no redundancy. All that has to happen is a weld fail on one axle stand and the whole lot comes down. Also it could tip and the unscrewed timber just fall apart.

gctest50

For just oil changes and stuff - simple wins

few minutes with a chainsaw and a railway sleeper will make nice ramps