Corrib Gas Field

Bock the Robber

In the new economic climate, can we still afford to give Shell E&P 14 billion euros worth of our gas free of charge?

asdasd

The tax is 25%. Newer fields are higher at 40%. But that tax increase can only happen after a succesful find. The newest concessions in the North Sea are at 30% tax. Both 25% + 40% are considerably higher than the 12.5% standard corporation tax in Ireland.

the Irish government cannot renege on previously agreed tax rates or no drilling will ever happen again.

We "own" nothing by the way, unless "we" can get it out of the ground. Since Paddy Joe and Jimmy Mack from the council, nor Hermionie SmellCrap and Bock the "robber" from Indymedia are not going to be able to extract the gas we have to rely on the people with the experience of extracting gas.

The last thing we need is for luddites to stop this for any longer - the tax take is 1.7 B over the lifetime. Not amazing, but worth a few pence on the income tax.

/end thread

Bock the Robber

Far from being a Luddite, I welcome the development of this gas field. However, I want our country to benefit from it, especially in such difficult economic times.

All Shell's exploration costs, past and future, are allowable against tax and can be written off.

Furthermore, Shell pay no royalties to the Irish exchequer.

The State will receive nothing from this gas field, nor do we have have first call on the gas. It can be exported anywhere in the world and there is nothing our government can do to prevent it.

At the moment, we can buy gas more cheaply from the UK, and on this basis it makes more sense to leave the gas in the ground until we need it instead of giving it away for nothing.

Incidentally, I have no connection with Indymedia. Please explain what that comment refers to.

ednwireland

Bock the Robber wrote: »

In the new economic climate, can we still afford to give Shell E&P 14 billion euros worth of our gas free of charge?

no choice, contracts are signed, end of .

Bock the Robber

"End of." Does that mean something?

The State has no difficulty rescinding its contracts with public employees, so why not with Shell?

In any case, what sort of contract involves one party handing something over to another party free of charge?

ei.sdraob

Bock the Robber wrote: »

Far from being a Luddite, I welcome the development of this gas field. However, I want our country to benefit from it, especially in such difficult economic times.

All Shell's exploration costs, past and future, are allowable against tax and can be written off.

Furthermore, Shell pay no royalties to the Irish exchequer.

The State will receive nothing from this gas field, nor do we have have first call on the gas. It can be exported anywhere in the world and there is nothing our government can do to prevent it.

At the moment, we can buy gas more cheaply from the UK, and on this basis it makes more sense to leave the gas in the ground until we need it instead of giving it away for nothing.

Incidentally, I have no connection with Indymedia. Please explain what that comment refers to.

which part of the state will receive 25% you dont understand?

Bock the Robber

ei.sdraob wrote: »

which part of the state will receive 25% you dont understand?

I was hoping for an adult reply, but I'll write slowly, especially for you.

We receive nothing for our gas. Not a penny.

Is there any part of that you don't understand?

bauderline

Bock the Robber wrote: »

I was hoping for an adult reply, but I'll write slowly, especially for you.

We receive nothing for our gas. Not a penny.

Is there any part of that you don't understand?

Really ? What is the source of the information upon which you base this statement ?

Bock the Robber

bauderline wrote: »

Really ? What is the source of the information upon which you base this statement ?

How many would you like?

Here's one source. (Sustainability.ie)

Here's another. (Irish Times)

Here's another (Oireachtas debate transcript)

Speech by Minister Noel Dempsey (Dept of Communications, Environment and Natural resources website)

Reduction in tax: Acts of the Oireachtas

If you consider these examples unreliable, let me know and I'll dig out another ten or twenty.

MarkK

Bock the Robber wrote: »

I was hoping for an adult reply, but I'll write slowly, especially for you.

We receive nothing for our gas. Not a penny.

Is there any part of that you don't understand?

Bock the Robber wrote: »

How many would you like?

Here's another.

Your source says "A tax rate of only 25 per cent applies".
So Ireland does get something.

Bock the Robber

MarkK wrote: »

Your source says "A tax rate of only 25 per cent applies".
So Ireland does get something.

Ireland gets no royalties, and all of Shell's exploration costs, past and future, can be offset against tax on any profits they make by selling us our own gas at full market price.

Uniquely in the world, we have no professional monitors overseeing Shell's operation on site, so we are not even in a position to say what their costs are, or even how much gas they will extract.

And of course, Ireland gets nothing.

Perhaps that will change and they'll start to pay some tax, which is fine if you're happy with peanuts.

MarkK

I'm happy with peanuts.

Nody

Bock the Robber wrote: »

Ireland gets no royalties, and all of Shell's exploration costs, past and future, can be offset against tax on any profits they make by selling us our own gas at full market price.

Uniquely in the world, we have no professional monitors overseeing Shell's operation on site, so we are not even in a position to say what their costs are, or even how much gas they will extract.

And of course, Ireland gets nothing.

Perhaps that will change and they'll start to pay some tax, which is fine if you're happy with peanuts.

Ok, I'll bite because I'm bored.

You want the government, who gave you a company such as ESB with the average wage in the 80k region and the pink dildo love known as NAMA to:

1) Set up a completly new public company in an specialised area they never operated before
2) For a field that is very hard to get to and at a very poor place in terms of extraction
3) To aquire all the people, specialised equipment etc. for billions up on billions which can't be used for something else if the field don't work
4) To analyze and see if there is a field to actually make money of (which currently is unknown)
5) To pump into the Irish gas network at retail prices (can't pump in at lower as this would be unfair competative advantage and any company in EU should have the right to buy it at the price)
6) To break a contract with a major international company who would take it to court for decades and millions of cost

And you think the above would some how net Ireland more money? Either you got some very good weed or you have to be a FF voter at heart who think the government is the next coming of Jesus or something to pull it off successfully...

Bock the Robber

Nody wrote: »

Ok, I'll bite because I'm bored.

You want the government, who gave you a company such as ESB with the average wage in the 80k region and the pink dildo love known as NAMA to:

1) Set up a completly new public company in an specialised area they never operated before
2) For a field that is very hard to get to and at a very poor place in terms of extraction
3) To aquire all the people, specialised equipment etc. for billions up on billions which can't be used for something else if the field don't work
4) To analyze and see if there is a field to actually make money of (which currently is unknown)
5) To pump into the Irish gas network at retail prices (can't pump in at lower as this would be unfair competative advantage and any company in EU should have the right to buy it at the price)
6) To break a contract with a major international company who would take it to court for decades and millions of cost

And you think the above would some how net Ireland more money? Either you got some very good weed or you have to be a FF voter at heart who think the government is the next coming of Jesus or something to pull it off successfully...

Where did you notice me saying the government should set up a company?

ei.sdraob

Bock the Robber wrote: »

I was hoping for an adult reply, but I'll write slowly, especially for you.

We receive nothing for our gas. Not a penny.

Is there any part of that you don't understand?

Is there any part of the following from the REVENUE website you do not understand?

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/ct/basis-charge.html

25%: Non-trading income [includes income chargeable under Case III (e.g. discounts, interest, foreign income), Case IV (patent royalties, miscellaneous income) & Case V (rental income from land & buildings in the State) of Schedule D]. Also included at this rate is income from activities which consist of working minerals, petroleum activities & dealing in or developing land, other than construction operations.

Bock the Robber

Why are you answering a point I didn't make?

I said Shell can write off all their costs, past and future, against tax.

I didn't say that no tax rate had been set.

Shell will pay no tax on any profits in the Corrib field for at least ten years and will pay us nothing at all for the raw materials used to generate those profits.

Furthermore, the UK has a rate of 50% and Norway's rate is 78%.

In addition, Norway gets 51.5% royalties and has 50% shared ownership. The corresponding figures for Ireland are Zero and Zero, respectively.

I'm starting to wonder if I made a terrible mistake and accidentally posted this on the Shell employees' corporate blog.

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

Long Onion

Lenihan Solves Economic Crisis After Sudden Brainwave

By Cian O Breen | July 8, 2009


Idea was “staring [him] in the face all this time”
The Irish economy was single-handedly rescused from financial ruin today by Minister for Finance Brian Lenihan.
In a dramatic flash of political inspiraton, Mr Lenihan has decided to charge the petroleum company Royal Dutch Shell a staggering 5% of the value of the natural gas deposits they are extracting from the Corrib gas fields off the coast of Mayo.
“It was weird – the idea just struck me out of the blue, as if from nowhere,” explained the Minister.
“For months me and my cabinet colleagues have been thoroughly stumped by this godforsaken recession, and then bang! It just hits me – the Corrib gas fields! How could I have been so stupid?
“All this time the solution to our financial woes was there staring me in the face and I didn’t see it.”
When looking into the matter further, Mr Lenihan discovered that in 2003 his former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern granted exclusive exploration rights of the Corrib gas field to Shell (along with free security from the Gardaí and Defense Forces) in exchange for a can of coke and a packet of Smoky Bacon Tayto crisps.
“With hindsight, I can’t say it was a good idea.” concedes Mr Lenihan.
“But to be fair to Bertie, the State was rolling in money at the time due to the property boom. So taking a cut of the gas profits seemed a little mean I suppose. Even though the gas is located in Irish waters and by rights belongs to the Irish people…
“Besides, I absolutely love Tayto crisps as well -though I do prefer cheese and onion- so I can’t really blame Bertie for accepting Shell’s generous offer.”
The Minister spoke of how he realised he could avoid all the crippling cuts in health, welfare and education by taking a slice (or a ‘tax’ as it is commonly known) of the revenue Royal Dutch Shell will accumulate from Irish gas.
“Like all the best ideas, it’s simple really. I thought, well, if we can tax an individual, why can’t we tax a multinational corporation? It’s the exact same principle really – except companies have a lot more money of course!” laughed Mr Lenihan.
The Minister did however apologise to the foreign oil company for the “unfortunate” surcharge he will have to place on their access to an Irish natural resource they have no exclusive entitlement to, but somehow do anyway.
“Sorry, but we all have to tighten our belts in the current climate, even all-powerful global corporations who don’t answer to anybody. I’m sorry but that’s just the way it is – we really need that money to stabilise the economy.”
In a statement reported on RTE, Shell’s Irish spokesman Ian Quisley confirmed that his foreign superiors will go ahead with “immediate” legal action.
Despite the revelation that they had reneged on the can of coke part of their deal with Bertie Ahern, Mr Quisley maintains Shell “are entitled to all to the resources of Irish offshore territories under the agreement and anyone who says otherwise are either hippies, cranks, terrorists or madmen”.
Other articles: Number of Mother****ers Highest In Dublin and Limerick

Bock the Robber

Condi wrote: »

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Excellent. Health and education budgets are being slashed, but at least Killybegs will get a few pence from Shell.

Phew! That's all right, then.

Long Onion

Bock the Robber wrote: »

Excellent. Health and education budgets are being slashed, but at least Killybegs will get a few pence from Shell.

Phew! That's all right, then.

You forget the massive revenues generated from the rocketing sales of Rizla and hemp dildos in Belmullet.

Del2005

Bock the Robber wrote: »

And of course, Ireland gets nothing.

Yeah I heard that Shell don't pay their workers any money and the workers all live on fresh air.

The reason why we get little out of this field is because when the licence was granted oil was cheap. No one wanted to go out into the North Atlantic to try and find fossil fuels that at the time where nearly impossible to land ( and still is due to Shell to sea).

Since Shell invested billions to find the gas, and therefore prove it's there, should they not be entitled to get it back. We now have proof that there is oil and gas off our coast so the current licences are more advantagous(sp?) to us.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all capital projects by companies tax deductable?

Diarmuid

Bock the Robber wrote: »

In the new economic climate, can we still afford to give Shell E&P 14 billion euros worth of our gas free of charge?

Wildly inaccurate statement, now where have a I seen something like that before.... ahh I remember http://bocktherobber.com/bock-rants

Nothing to see here

Bock the Robber

Diarmuid wrote: »

Wildly inaccurate statement

Where is it inaccurate? Obviously you're content to be tossed a few copppers and put up with the savage cuts that are coming in the next four budgets. Well done on seeing the big picture. With vision like thins, how can Ireland go wrong go wrong go wrong go wrong go wrong ...

yuloni

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Bock the Robber

Condi wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Anti-Lisbon? Either you visited the wrong website or else you can't read.

(That should be "whether", incidentally, not "wether").

Update: You changed "Lisbon" to "progress". Why did you do that?

yuloni

This post has been deleted.

SLUSK

Bock the Robber wrote: »

In the new economic climate, can we still afford to give Shell E&P 14 billion euros worth of our gas free of charge?

What exactly makes those fields "your fields", are you entitled to them just because you happen to be Irish? I am guessing Shell has bought the right to drill those fields... Without Shell or another company that gas would just be in the ground forever and ever.

baaaa

hypothetically speaking,what would happen if the deal was to be renaged on?

Bock the Robber

SLUSK wrote: »

What exactly makes those fields "your fields", are you entitled to them just because you happen to be Irish? I am guessing Shell has bought the right to drill those fields... Without Shell or another company that gas would just be in the ground forever and ever.

I didn't use the phrase "my fields" at all.

I said "our gas" because that's what it is: our gas, yours and mine, and our children, which has been given away in a dirty little deal instead of being used to fund schools and hospitals.

Anyway, there seems to be plenty of people happy enough to bend over and get boned for a few shillings.

There's a word for that, but here's a better one: if you enjoy the Shell boning, you're going to love NAMA!

SLUSK

What competency does the national or local government have to do exploration and drilling for oil?

Seems you advocate a Venezuelan style nationalization of the energy industry... don't be surprised if you end up like Venezuela if this policy is implemented...

baaaa

I don't think lack of experience is a valid reason for not nationalising the gas.