Should Lotto jackpots be taxed?

flazio

This debate on RTÉ got me thinking. Earlier today I heard an ad from the National Lottery proclaiming that they have added 2 million euro to the rollover jackpot so it'll be in the region of €8 million. Now don't get me wrong I'd love the whole lot as much as the next guy but in this current climate can we really afford to be giving single private individuals this sort of money tax free?
Say for example there was a 10% tax on the jackpot of exactly €8 million, that would mean the government would take 800,000 of that and the jackpot winner would get €7,200,000. Which would still be a nice windfall I'm sure you'd agree.
I'd make it though that it's only on prizes over €1 million though so that any lotto plus winnings or any lotto jackpot that is divided to less then 1 million per winner (a syndicate would still count as 1 winner) then the prize would remain tax free.
Just thought I'd throw that out there for consideration.

ArmaniJeanss

The Lotto is already taxed at around ~50%, with only around half of what people put in being paid back in prizes.

People accept this and still play it, whereas if they taxed jackpots at even 1% there'd be total uproar, boycotts, Joe Duffy on the case etc.

So, No, bad idea.

Liam Byrne

If the greed has finally abated, I'd suggest the following:

If the jackpot isn't won, share half of it among the people who got 5 numbers.

That way, the wealth gets spread around more, and you don't end up with one single person winning €8,000,000.

optocynic

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

The Lotto is already taxed at around ~50%, with only around half of what people put in being paid back in prizes.

People accept this and still play it, whereas if they taxed jackpots at even 1% there'd be total uproar, boycotts, Joe Duffy on the case etc.

So, No, bad idea.

Why not use the 50% that the national lottery keep for 'Charity' (GAA mostly).. and temporarily use it in the public coffers. It would pay for a lot of children's medical care I bet...

But can we trust the government.Public Sector to spend it wisely?

slimjimmc

optocynic wrote: »

Why not use the 50% that the national lottery keep for 'Charity' (GAA mostly).. and temporarily use it in the public coffers. It would pay for a lot of children's medical care I bet...

But can we trust the government.Public Sector to spend it wisely?

It already goes to the public coffers
http://lotto.ie/Good-Causes/Apply-for-funding1/

The National Lottery generates funds for good causes in the areas of Youth, Sport, Recreation and Amenities; Health & Welfare; Arts, Culture & National Heritage and the Irish Language. Funds raised by the National Lottery are transferred to the Exchequer and are used to part-finance expenditure by various Government Departments on projects in these categories.
National Lottery funding is distributed through the following Government Departments and Bodies:
Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government
Department of Education and Science
Department of Arts, Sports and Tourism
Arts Council
Department of Defence
Department of Health and Children
HSE
Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs
Department of Finance

optocynic

slimjimmc wrote: »

It already goes to the public coffers
http://lotto.ie/Good-Causes/Apply-for-funding1/

Indeed it is. But should we not use some/all of it to address more immediate issues. Temporarily.

mikemac

No, it's already taxed, well at least a lot of money is spent on projects from ticket sales every year.
Your local GAA club might well have gotten money as an example

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If the greed has finally abated, I'd suggest the following:

If the jackpot isn't won, share half of it among the people who got 5 numbers.

That way, the wealth gets spread around more, and you don't end up with one single person winning €8,000,000.

A good idea!
But it does stop rollovers and ticket sales rocket whenever the lotto rolls over for a few weeks and the prize is massive.
So some accountant would have to do a cost/benefit analysis here, I'm sure they have one on the staff

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

mrgaa1

in reply to the OP

NO!!!!!!!

taxing the lotto would mean taxing all club lotto's, all club fundraising draws, bingo, all winnings from bookmakers etc......

Tipp Man

I'd personally be against taxing the lotto winnings, as bad as things are I don't thing they are that bad yet. you can't tax every hope and dream that people have

flazio

mrgaa1 wrote: »

in reply to the OP

NO!!!!!!!

taxing the lotto would mean taxing all club lotto's, all club fundraising draws, bingo, all winnings from bookmakers etc......

I specifically said Jackpot Wins all other sides of the pie to remain untouched, like I say if it were only for prizes over €1million euro draws like Lotto Plus, and the Raffle (because the tax would only come in for the prize went OVER 1 million not 1 million exactly) and Winning Streak would be all tax free. If you earn more then a certain amount you pay more tax so why not if you win more then the higher rate of income tax? It's not like it'll make the win worthless.

Liam Byrne

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That way, the wealth gets spread around more, and you don't end up with one single person winning €8,000,000.

Unfortunately that's what the National Lottery wanted; it was the main reason why the amount of numbers was increased from 42 to 45. They wanted more rollovers and bigger jackpots.

Long Onion

I think we could kill two birds with one stone. The national lottery could issue a new set of scratch cards where instead of winning cash prizes the lucky customer could win ...








... a medical treatment free of charge. So, you could win a colonoscopy in the hospital of your choice, these could then be bought, sold and exchanged on the open market thus increasing the amount of wealth in circulation. The PC brigade could just give their ones away and refrain from moaning.

Everyone wins.:D

Diarmuid

Karsini wrote: »

Unfortunately that's what the National Lottery wanted; it was the main reason why the amount of numbers was increased from 42 to 45. They wanted more rollovers and bigger jackpots.

and the reason the National Lottery wanted that is because their customers wanted that. People prefer bigger jackpots and it gets a lot more people interested in the Lotto. It mightn't fit in with some peoples idea of more getting a slice of the action but that's life.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Mad_Max

No for me.

Until the government sorts out its money wastage, whats an extra million or two a year gonna do. At least let the winners spend it in the general economy.

trad

The money use to purchase lotto tickets is after tax income therefore it has already been taxed.

c4cat

flazio wrote: »

This debate on RTÉ got me thinking. Earlier today I heard an ad from the National Lottery proclaiming that they have added 2 million euro to the rollover jackpot so it'll be in the region of €8 million. Now don't get me wrong I'd love the whole lot as much as the next guy but in this current climate can we really afford to be giving single private individuals this sort of money tax free?
Say for example there was a 10% tax on the jackpot of exactly €8 million, that would mean the government would take 800,000 of that and the jackpot winner would get €7,200,000. Which would still be a nice windfall I'm sure you'd agree.
I'd make it though that it's only on prizes over €1 million though so that any lotto plus winnings or any lotto jackpot that is divided to less then 1 million per winner (a syndicate would still count as 1 winner) then the prize would remain tax free.
Just thought I'd throw that out there for consideration.

~If the government taxed gambling winnings then the government would have to allow gambing losses as a tax deductable too. Meaning a nett loss to the state. Anyway the lottery is a kind of voluntary tax paid by mostly the poor of the society to fund what the government does not want to fund

StealthRolex

Why tax the winnings? The cost of the game is taxed already so you could call the Lotto a voluntary stealth tax.

If you do win big while you don't pay tax on the capita you won you do (or should) pay tax on any income earned from it unless you can move it to a tax free off-shore account or emigrate and take your winnings with you.

StealthRolex

c4cat wrote: »

~If the government taxed gambling winnings then the government would have to allow gambing losses as a tax deductable too. Meaning a nett loss to the state. Anyway the lottery is a kind of voluntary tax paid by mostly the poor of the society to fund what the government does not want to fund

If the current Minister for Finance implemented this you would probably be correct but gambling losses should only be deductible against gambling winnings, not normal earnings.

This is the situation in the US and they don't have a net loss from gambling.

The actuality is that we do have a betting duty (2%) and a gambling tax for off-course and bookmaker bets (10%) that is deducted from your winnings. Your losses are not tax deductible unless you happen to be a bookie, bank manager, property developer or politician, minister class.

dermo88

Mildly off topic.

Ireland could lose out on a huge opportunity to expand internet gambling. It could be a huge revenue generator, particularly in peripheral regions such as the West of Ireland, in tax free zones with high speed broadband connections. It could create employment, provided it was in free trade zones in peripheral regions which consistently go out with the begging bowl, such as Leitrim, Donegal, Kerry and MAYO.

Lenihan continues to tax high street betting offices at 2% per wager. Thats effectively a 35% profit tax on high street bookmakers, on top of all the other taxes paid. Granted, yes, its a social ill....but why not have a 15% gross profit tax on gambling on the bookmakers, and with proper tax and regulation, and protection of the consumer, Ireland could take advantage of the vast amount of sporting knowledge that exists, and everyone wins. Theres expertise and knowledge of almost every sport on earth in Ireland, and Irish people are more knowledgable, informed, passionate, about sport than almost any country I know. Its the central topic of many pub conversations.

I apologise for being a bit incoherent here, but we could steal a march on the world by doing this. Ireland is smart enough and the knowledge base exists to be the Las Vegas of the Internet. Its feasible, and should be considered. It could easily employ 10,000 or more employees, and in the peripheral regions mentioned could have a far greater impact than any amount of decentralisation. It would cost the Government very little to do. It would be the ultimate example of work smart, not work hard.

.BrianJM

Diarmuid wrote: »

and the reason the National Lottery wanted that is because their customers wanted that. People prefer bigger jackpots and it gets a lot more people interested in the Lotto. It mightn't fit in with some peoples idea of more getting a slice of the action but that's life.

...and just what percentage of the entire customer-base said that.?