An dtuigeann tú - a waste of 14 years?

sdanseo

Just got thinking during the religion thread there how little a grasp I have of Irish. I mean, I can follow a simple enough conversation but to say I was fluent would be more than an overstatement.

When I was in school, we studied Irish for an everage of 40 minutes a day, or 2 hours a week, for 14 years. Taking the average school year that's nearly a thousand hours of tuition in the subject, yet most of the people who I left school with that did pass Irish could barely string a sentence together. And it wasn't for lack of trying or that I was a big thick, or anything.

Yet at college level we can happily do 20 hours a semester of a subject and pass it outright with barely any effort at all.

Should we abolish Irish totally if it's not going to be taught right?

Or should we do what I'd be more inclined to, and overhaul the curriculum at pass level at least so that Honours Irish is not just the reserve of the super-dedicated?

Thoughts? (I know this is AH, so be funny if you're gonna slag) :P

javaboy

Countdown to you being called a west Brit traitor: 10

4zn76tysfajdxp

9

orestes

8

Aoifums

I think the 1000 hours would be much better spent teaching people to speak Irish. I know my irregular verbs, but I couldn't even attempt to carry a conversation. How is that preserving the national language?

donmeister

WEST BRIT TRAITOR!!!

sdanseo

Off with ye, I love Irish! Just not that good of it despite all the time I put in, not like any other subject I did.

itsallaboutheL

C

javaboy

donmeister wrote: »

WEST BRIT TRAITOR!!!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premature_ejaculation

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

No it should not be halted due to peoples ignorance... My cousins are fluent in irish. One is only 12, it's wonderful to hear people, brought up in dublin city all their lives speaking a language that most of the city has forgotten about. I envy my cousins...

donmeister

javaboy wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premature_ejaculation

1 minute........new record

TheZohanS

sdonn wrote: »

Off with ye, I love Irish! Just not that good of it despite all the time I put in, not like any other subject I did.

Not that good of english either.

Think there might be a pattern emerging.

genericguy

Lena Plain Checkbook wrote: »

No it should not be halted due to peoples ignorance... My cousins are fluent in irish. One is only 12, it's wonderful to hear people, brought up in dublin city all their lives speaking a language that most of the city has forgotten about. I envy my cousins...

agreed. i speak the language fluently, and i love it. however, the curriculum should be changed to place a greater emphasis on speaking i see no need to be learning how to critically evaluate poetry etc. that said, the only people that want the language abolished in schools are those who did not do well in it.

Agricola

I like to think the reason most of us are unable to speak Irish after all that tuition is because we're all a bunch of smart, practical people who knew from the age of 5 that learning this language would be a complete waste of time, so we invested no real effort in it..............

I could be wrong!

G_R

Lena Plain Checkbook wrote: »

No it should not be halted due to peoples ignorance... My cousins are fluent in irish. One is only 12, it's wonderful to hear people, brought up in dublin city all their lives speaking a language that most of the city has forgotten about. I envy my cousins...

Proper answer: well being honest about it, your cousins are the exception rather than the rule, dont get me wrong like i would also love to be fluent in irish but im not and the terrible education i recieved in Irish class is largely to blame



AH answer: OP: Traitor!!!! taking our jobs and our language, what'll ya want next!

genericguy

sdonn wrote: »

Off with ye, I love Irish! Just not that good of it despite all the time I put in, not like any other subject I did.

so would you consider "can't win, don't try" as your personal mission statement?

put your gaeilge-bearla dictionary in the attic with your guitar and unicycle and go to bed will you?

dunnomede?

Aoifums wrote: »

I think the 1000 hours would be much better spent teaching people to speak Irish. I know my irregular verbs, but I couldn't even attempt to carry a conversation. How is that preserving the national language?

agree completely with you. conversational irish (or any language for that matter) is far more important than knowing the intricacies of conjugation, irregularities etc. I also feel that with a concentration on conversational irish the intricacies would be learned through osmosis. While i was in school it was far more important to learn of a two page answer about "bríd óg ni mhaille" or whatever else was on the curriculum. Which yes might give you a very in depth - but somewhat boring - conversation about a particular piece of literature it doesnt facilitate general conversation

genericguy

Agricola wrote: »

I could be wrong!

you are.

thatsa spicy

Is aoibheann liom an Ghaelige!
Seriously though, I think that all Irish schoolchildren should be taught the Irish lanuguge (to some extent) regardless of any cost versus benefit discussions.
But thats just my opinion!!!!!

Sharpshooter

genericguy wrote: »

agreed. i speak the language fluently, and i love it. however, the curriculum should be changed to place a greater emphasis on speaking i see no need to be learning how to critically evaluate poetry etc. that said, the only people that want the language abolished in schools are those who did not do well in it.

Well then, that should include Capitals and Comma's when posting in English too, no?:p

994

Agricola wrote: »

I like to think the reason most of us are unable to speak Irish after all that tuition is because we're all a bunch of smart, practical people who knew from the age of 5 that learning this language would be a complete waste of time, so we invested no real effort in it..............

I could be wrong!

No, it's simply that the teaching of Irish is abysmal. It only takes 60-100 hours of instruction to gain competence in a language if it's taught properly. Similarly, secondary students spend 700 hours on a European language but many finish their Leaving without being able to order a Bratwurst.

genericguy

Sharpshooter wrote: »

Well then, that should include Capitals and Comma's when posting in English too, no?:p

Well pardon me for expediting my response and failing to recognise the need for grammatical accuracy on this important internet forum. You shall not incur my wrath though, as I enjoy you. Usually.

Write out the emboldened corrections fifty times though.

sdanseo

994 wrote: »

No, it's simply that the teaching of Irish is abysmal. It only takes 60-100 hours of instruction to gain competence in a language if it's taught properly. Similarly, secondary students spend 700 hours on a European language but many finish their Leaving without being able to order a Bratwurst.

My point exactly.

I love Irish, did fairly well in it if you count a B1 in pass as fairly well. My problem though is even though I didn't do honours Irish I should really have more to show for it than I do. Truth is if it were taught properly and the teacher could control a class I'd probably have put in more effort. Only reasoon I didn't do honours was because the system made it difficult for me to go back up after dropping just before JC (I bottled it a few weeks before)- my intention had always been to go back up.

Sharpshooter

genericguy wrote: »

Well pardon me for expediting my response and failing to recognise the need for grammatical accuracy on this important internet forum. You shall not incur my wrath though, as I enjoy you. Usually.

Write out the emboldened corrections fifty times though.

Will do, in pink.

Aoifums

994 wrote: »

No, it's simply that the teaching of Irish is abysmal. It only takes 60-100 hours of instruction to gain competence in a language if it's taught properly. Similarly, secondary students spend 700 hours on a European language but many finish their Leaving without being able to order a Bratwurst.

Thats true. Although, my French is far better than my Irish. And I've only been studying French for 5 years.

Greyfox

It should be optional once you start secondary school, making it compulsory is just a guarenteed way of making tens of thousands of people passionately hate Irish even long after they finish school, also they need to change how it's thought so that more people can actually hold a conversation in Irish

Agricola

genericguy wrote: »

you are.

Really!!! Surely not? Whats the word for "Humour" in Irish? You may need to look it up.

Greyfox wrote: »

It should be optional once you start secondary school, making it compulsory is just a guarenteed way of making tens of thousands of people passionately hate Irish even long after they finish school, also they need to change how it's thought so that more people can actually hold a conversation in Irish

I'd go abit further and say make it optional after the Junior Cert. I think kids leaving primary school wouldn't really know what they want at that age but at 15, if they like and are good with Irish or languages in general, its a good time to let them choose.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

genericguy wrote: »

agreed. i speak the language fluently, and i love it. however, the curriculum should be changed to place a greater emphasis on speaking i see no need to be learning how to critically evaluate poetry etc. that said, the only people that want the language abolished in schools are those who did not do well in it.

Yea, definately... I done horrible in the learning of poems and stories. I can see the point in it, but I could find better things to learn. I definately think that standard irish should be aimed more towards giving people the skills to be able to talk about it. Who wants to recite "children of lir"? Really... I think poetry and the likes should be aimed towards the honors students once they are somewhat fluent in speaking.

Novella

I was quite good at Irish when I was in school so I can't say I think that there is a problem with the way it is being taught. I am more of the opinion there is a problem with the students learning it. The majority of students who take the pass paper, hate the subject. Do they hate it because they are not good at it, or is it that they're not good at it because they hate it?

I was taught Irish the same way as everybody else but I had an interest in learning the subject and so took the higher level paper and had no problem with it. My grandparents are from the Gaeltacht and a number of my relatives are fluent in the language so I could easily hold a conversation still.

I think it'd be a shame to stop teaching Irish in our schools. It would be nice, however, to see more emphasis put on having basic conversations through Irish, as opposed to being able to write about poems and stories.

syklops

Lena Plain Checkbook wrote: »

Yea, definately... I done horrible in the learning of poems and stories. I can see the point in it, but I could find better things to learn. I definately think that standard irish should be aimed more towards giving people the skills to be able to talk about it.

Looks like you done horrible in English too.

Lena Plain Checkbook wrote: »

Who wants to recite "children of lir"? Really... I think poetry and the likes should be aimed towards the honors students once they are somewhat fluent in speaking.

You wouldn't consider the children of Lir to be part of our heritage and culture, no?

In All Fairness

TheZohan wrote: »

Not that good of english either.

I think there might be a pattern emerging.

IFYP

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

syklops wrote: »

Looks like you done horrible in English too.

Oh look, somebody who is unable to debate proparly so they must lower themselves to the level of attacking a poster's inability to be a perfectionist when it comes to languages. Wow... you are a genious... :rolleyes:

You wouldn't consider the children of Lir to be part of our heritage and culture, no?

I think you are getting your threads mixed up. We are not discussing heritage and culture here. You are having a problem debating proparly?

The discussion is about the importance of the language and if it is a waste of time learning. It is not about culture and heritage. There can be better things DONE instead of getting children to recite a boring poem or story which will not help them in a huge way to learn the language. If anything it will do the opposite.

TheZohanS

Lena Plain Checkbook wrote: »

Oh look, somebody who is unable to debate properly so they must lower themselves to the level of attacking a poster's inability to be a perfectionist when it comes to languages. Wow... you are a genius... :rolleyes:

IFYPT.

YVW.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

TheZohan wrote: »

IFYPT.

YVW.

Oh christ... it's 3am for crying out loud... :P

syklops

I'm not going to dignify the small and petty comments of, what i can only surmise is a small and petty person, with an answer.

Oiche mhaith.

Tony Danza

How much time do you spend doing maths at school, yet there are lots of people that can't do simple addition!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

syklops wrote: »

I'm not going to dignify the small and petty comments of, what i can only surmise is a small and petty person, with an answer.

Oiche mhaith.

Well there's no need to resort to personal abuse, now is there? Enjoy your night.

Exactly tony, yet it doesn't mean it should be dismissed... Although maths is used every single day, conciously or sub conciously...

An Fear Aniar

I don't think Irish should be taught in schools at all. The overall effect is counter productive. In the end, only the enthusiasts end up speaking it, so they can learn it by themselves if they want to. I'm not against Gaelscoileanna, if the family speak Irish at home, if not, you're just wreckin' your child's head.


.

phasers

I have my cúpla focail and tbh I always enjoyed Irish, but I think it should be optional as a lot of people seriously detest it.

dlofnep

This topic has been discussed 1000 times on here already. Search engine is your friend.

dresden8

Irish in primary was taught well, on the entrance exam into secondary I got 100% in my exam.

5 years of poetry and other such bullsh1t and I could barely string a sentence together.

Irish literature should be an entirely seperate subject for those who want to do it.

BraziliaNZ

i went to a Gaelscoil, and was fluent from an early age, but I wish they had taught me a language I could use now, although it's kind of nice to know it

Pygmalion

sdonn wrote: »

When I was in school, we studied Irish for an everage of 40 minutes a day, or 2 hours a week

Yeah, they're really failing to teach maths too.
Kind of a waste of 14 years for you.

I hated Irish in school but now a few years later I really wish I could speak it. I know words here and there but I could only but very simple sentences together.

I think the points made about actually teaching conversational Irish and having students learn to speak it would be much better than class after class of grammar and learning of poems and essays in Irish.

Kev_ps3

Im a Patriot so one of my dreams is the celtic people of Ireland speak the gaelic language. We should still learn English/Chineese/German for business reasons.

Bill-e

I didn't have to do Irish so I got to do my homework instead.
Happy days.
When I went to college it was very strange as I was missing that 40 minutes a day when I used to get things done..

D.Q

syklops wrote: »

Looks like you done horrible in English too.

anyone?:D

Dyr

I went to all irish schools up until I was about thirteen and then transferred to an english school, I spoke irish fluently back then and had done since i was probably 6 or 7. There were pupils in the english speaking school who could barely string a sentence in irish together but would score higher than me in their exams, kinda sez it all.

genericguy

DieselQueen wrote: »

anyone?:D

fcuk it - it's "did horribly"

javaboy

It's not a spelling/grammar test people. Half the mistakes you're correcting are deliberate for comic effect so it doesn't make you look as S-M-R-T as you think.

projectmayhem

Bambi wrote: »

I went to all irish schools up until I was about thirteen and then transferred to an english school, I spoke irish fluently back then and had done since i was probably 6 or 7. There were pupils in the english speaking school who could barely string a sentence in irish together but would score higher than me in their exams, kinda sez it all.

I went to an Irish school for the first few years of my primary school education. We had to speak Irish all day, even during lunch breaks. Sing songs in Irish, do maths via Irish... the whole lot.

I was pretty much fluent. Then we moved house and went to secondary school. I still had my Irish with me through first year (straight A's), second year it started to get knocked out of me. I wanted to learn it and continue because I knew I was on to a good thing, but the teacher was so boring and made it so uninteresting. By Junior cert I was at a B level, barely. Leaving cert brought about me barely getting a C... and now, well I know more French then Irish.

The Irish language system here ruined my ability to speak the language. Ironic, because the system for teaching French, German or Spanish is so good that it's hard to believe it's not replicated.

The Irish idea is to teach us culture, not language. Feck the stupid whimsicle poetry rubbish and teach us a language.