Irish times journalist says that Irish fee paying schools not elitist !!!

Davidius

Oh I see how it is.

Reverse snobbery?

Yrebbons. –noun, plural -ber⋅ies.
Having the characteristics of a bons. One who shows acceptence towards others' opinions or viewpoints and regards others as being equal or superior.

Eoin

laugh wrote: »

I would rather have the private schools than be without them, if only a few people with talent are given the environment to suceed where some scumbag isn't taking up all the teachers time with their behavior problems.

This is where I'll have to disagree with you - you'll get scumbags and assholes in any school who will waste the teacher's time. But to criticise parents for spending money on their children's education is beyond me.

laugh

eoin wrote: »

This is where I'll have to disagree with you - you'll get scumbags and assholes in any school who will waste the teacher's time.

They get the door from my experience. Especially important in the early years before people are serperated by talent / interest in subjects.

Maybe its a bad thing that they dont feel obliged to educate someone who isnt interested themselves?

laoisforliam

Sleipnir wrote: »

Her name is Orlaith and she went to Mount Anville, for God's sake. Of course she's elitist.



Seriously, there's not one spoiled brat in Clongowes? BULL****!

Theres spoiled brats in nearly every ingle school in the country

Dragan

jonsnow wrote: »

They view themselves as ordinary and hardworking and see themselves as having got ahead purely by their own hard work and talents-never acknowledging all the old boy and old girl networks that have protected and helped them to success their entire lives.

Talked to many of them?

Dudess

laugh wrote: »

if only a few people with talent are given the environment to suceed where some scumbag isn't taking up all the teachers time with their behavior problems.

This is the kind of thing I mean...

eoin wrote: »

But to criticise parents for spending money on their children's education is beyond me.

I think it's more a case of objecting to the assumption that private school = better education. It's extremely misguided. State schools can have facilities that are second to none, some private schools don't have good facilities. All teachers receive the same training. Some teachers are good, some mediocre, some bad - the fact they're based in a private school doesn't change that. Ditto when it comes to the student's ability/level of application.

I went to a fee paying school, because it was a good one and mostly because they didn't shove religion down my throat. Non-catholic school go!

Eoin

Dudess wrote: »

This is the kind of thing I mean...

Yeah, but look at the comments on the other side of the fence!

Dudess wrote: »

I think it's more a case of objecting to the assumption that private school = better education. It's extremely misguided. State schools can have facilities that are second to none, some private schools don't have good facilities. All teachers receive the same training. Some teachers are good, some mediocre, some bad - the fact they're based in a private school doesn't change that. Ditto when it comes to the student's ability/level of application.

Again, my issue is with assuming that people that go to private schools are all gormless chinless wonders that will benefit from this mythical old tie network.

I don't know how the appointment of teachers works in private or public schools, so I don't know if there is a difference in the quality of teaching.

Put it this way - if you have kids and the best school in the area actually was a private one that you could afford, would you send your kids there?

laugh

Dudess wrote: »

This is the kind of thing I mean...

"the truth" and "the reality" is the kind of thing I mean.

gavney

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

don't know about elitist but 16K a year for school is f*cking insane

is it really? you know it's 16K for boarding, not for Day Pupils? Are you saying it's an outrageous amount for someone to pay (which is a matter of opinion, fair enough) or that it's a ridiculous amount to charge?

Let's say they charge 5K a year for Day Pupils (which is about average what it costs in most fee-paying schools).

So, to feed, board and baby sit your children for 11K for 8/9 months of the year isn't actually that much (if that's what you want).

Dudess

There will be disruptive brats in any school - I know you said they get shown the door, but that's not always the case.
On these threads, private school students are always depicted as quiet, polite, mannerly, studious little souls - like something out of Tom Brown's Schooldays (when being anything else would result in a battering). The days of the private school moulding young gentlemen/ladies are long gone.
Someone said earlier on this thread that it's difficult to tell the vast majority of the time whether someone went to a private or public school - I wholeheartedly agree.

eoin wrote: »

Again, my issue is with assuming that people that go to private schools are all gormless chinless wonders that will benefit from this mythical old tie network.

Same as I. Some of my brothers' friends come from families who didn't have a pot to piss in, but they made whatever sacrifices they could to put their boys through that school anyway because it is a very good school.

Put it this way - if you have kids and the best school in the area actually was a private one that you could afford, would you send your kids there?

Oh I absolutely would. Sending your child to a private school because it's a really good school is not objectionable.
But there are views like "It will segregate them from the riff-raff" and "we're too good for a state school".
If the school is a good school, it's a good school - there's a difference between that though and "if we pay fees, it must be a good school".

Handsome Bob

Dudess wrote: »

There will be disruptive brats in any school - I know you said they get shown the door, but that's not always the case.

Aye, but the kind of disruptive brats you get are quite different. I doubt that in private schools you get students threatening to batter the teachers.

As for private schools, if people can afford to send their kids to the best schools then fair play to them. These schools won't foster a feeling of snobbish entitlement in children/teenagers, it is and will always be purely down to how they are brought up by their parents.

Dudess

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Aye, but the kind of disruptive brats you get are quite different. I doubt that in private schools you get students threatening to batter the teachers.

I disagree. Macho, laddish bravado is prevalent in all walks of life. Certain behaviours tend to be associated only with certain classes, which is a fallacy. For instance, my mother knew the owner of a shop near a private girls' school and the woman's heart was broken from the shoplifting that seemed to go through the roof immediately before, during and after school hours.
Now I'm not saying this therefore means people who attend private school are more likely to shoplift, of course, but it flies in the face of the notion that middle-class/upper middle-class kids are above such behaviour.

These schools won't foster a feeling of snobbish entitlement in children/teenagers, it is and will always be purely down to how they are brought up by their parents.

Again, disagreed. The influence of one's peers can never be underestimated. And while a lot of people grow out of that, sadly, many don't.

Handsome Bob

Dudess wrote: »

I disagree. Macho, laddish bravado is prevalent in all walks of life. Certain behaviours tend to be associated only with certain classes, which is a fallacy. For instance, my mother knew the owner of a shop near a private girls' school and the woman's heart was broken from the shoplifting that seemed to go through the roof immediately before, during and after school hours.
Now I'm not saying this therefore means people who attend private school are more likely to shoplift, of course, but it flies in the face of the notion that middle-class/upper middle-class kids are above such behaviour.

Maybe I should have phrased what I said better. I went to a public school, and I have seen students lay their hands on teachers. Actually physically attacking their teacher. No offence, but I don't think shop lifting comes near that in terms of difficult behaviour. Seeing a teacher being attacked by a student diminishes their ability to command the class quite drastically.

Again, disagreed. The influence of one's peers can never be underestimated. And while a lot of people grow out of that, sadly, many don't.

Peer pressure can happen everywhere, and there are plenty of people who manage to resist it. I would put that down largely to the character instilled in them by their parents or guardians. I would say anyone who bows to peer pressure has a need for love, a need to feel accepted no matter the cost and these would be things that they are not getting at home. That's a failure on the parents part in my humble opinion.

mobius42

Did I miss some memo? When did elite become a pejorative term?

Kalashnikov_Kid

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Aye, but the kind of disruptive brats you get are quite different. I doubt that in private schools you get students threatening to batter the teachers.

That is a highly prejuduced comment. The one private school near me where I grew up had the most amount of dopesmokers than any other school in the town - including the Tech beside a council estate with a 'bad reputation'. Some of the boarders were also partial to a bit of e taking and getting suspended for vandalisation of school property. Funny that.

This idea that 'Oh Oisin wont get into trouble going here' is a load of bollix IMO. Private schools dont reject money for not being green enough, so you get trouble everywhere.

Ollchailin

I've taught in secondary schools (run by religious orders), vocational schools, and a private boarding school.

I do understand that for students coming from a troubled home, a boarding school is perhaps the most stable home that a child can hope for. I also understand that many parents believe that a private school is their way of giving their child the best start in life. But I think there is, and more so than ever, this opinion that if you spend the money you'll get the results. I have found it much harder to get students to work in a private school than an ordinary secondary school in my experience. Money cannot buy a will to work and a will to co-operate and listen in class. It's as bad as those who pay for grinds for students who don't even do the basics in class.

I think that if I ever have children I'd rather send them to a non fee paying school. I just feel in my experience as a teacher that you do have a broader range of backgrounds in front of you and I'd like my child to be amongst that. Of course those in private schools can vary too, and some can just about afford it, but there is definitely a different atmosphere and air in a private school than in public schools. I can't put my finger on it, it's just there.

Having said that, it's up to each parent to decide what's best for their child, and no one has the right to criticise that decision. One thing that I've come to notice though is that boys are, in 99% of cases, better off being in a co-educational setting- socially, educationally, and emotionally. Again, just my opinion!

Oh and as for no spoilt pupils in Clongowes?!?! EVERY school has spoilt brats, and anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

spurious

No such thing as a good school. What makes the difference is parental support.

Obviously handing large sums of money over more or less guarantees parental support and a home where education is valued.

MizzLolly

I went to a public school. My friend went to a private school. There have been times where we've gotten into arguments over our schooldays. My school was a dive, the five years I spent there have by far been the worst of my life so far. My friend looks back on her school days and feels happy and even now meets with her old English teacher for coffee and chats. As nice as it is to know that some schools really are a happy place, the girl is horribly naive. She's still living at home (she's only 22 so that's not a big deal) and she has never been short on cash. All of her clothes are bought from expensive boutiques and her accent is posh enough that she managed to get us stared out of it in Fairview! She's a lovely girl but one day we had a huge argument while talking about school. She stated that ''my family are no different to yours, they just realise how important an education is''. Well......... as nice as she normally is there was no way I was letting that one slide. Her family are not the same as mine; there have three cars in their Foxrock car park (beautiful area btw) The Masters which she is currently doing has been paid off by her family, she's not had to pay a cent of it. She went on every single optional field trip during her undergrad, she has 2-3 holidays every year. All of which she deserves to have, I don't think for a second that she should be deprived of any of it but what did annoy me was her audacity to claim she was the same as me.

I used to be sick going to school, I hated the way the scum in the classes got to dictate whether or not we could learn something that day. We lost five teachers during the leaving cert following a series of accidents like their cars being destroyed, knives being pulled and fights breaking out in the classrooms on a weekly basis. This was completely normal for us but I hated it. A small handful of us finished the leaving cert and went onto college. My point was that my friend can brag all she wants and claim her parents were more focused than mine but yet we both ended up in the same place, doing the same degree and getting the same results. I've been living away from my family since I was 17, I've worked the whole time during college and I've paid off my Masters deposits myself and yet she thinks she's the same as me?! That's the only thing I have a problem with. I think sometimes when you are very privileged you cannot see how blessed you are. Sometimes they don't even have a clue what's happening out there in ordinary public schools. There's a shocking divide between kids in private schools and kids on the public system and I think it's very unfair to claim that the families in private schools are just working that bit harder. If you have the money for private education then fair play but at least acknowledge that it is a mighty fine privilege and realise that no matter how many hours you work, that option is not available to everybody!


*I'm not knocking private education btw, I'd certainly consider it for my kids in the future given my school experience.

Ollchailin

spurious wrote: »

No such thing as a good school. What makes the difference is parental support.

Obviously handing large sums of money over more or less guarantees parental support and a home where education is valued.

You'd think that'd be the case! Fee paying schools have huge variation in the support from parents, like in most schools. But in some cases the money being handed over is also handing over all responsibility to the school. Some parents just don't give a crap. Some parents think their child can do no wrong. Happens in every school, money or not.

I would agree with what you said though- parental support is key. If I've a student who has no fear of their parent, I'm at nothing correcting them. There are no consequences for them, no penalties for doing wrong.

spurious

Oh I don't doubt there are parents in fee-paying schools who are feckless where their children's education is concerned, as there are fantastic parents in some schools who have to go to the Vincents to cover the price of copies.

The irony is that the parents who are supportive, could just as easily have sent their kids to the local school and saved their money. Their good work is already done in how they have brought up the child. Again though, it's their money and they can spend it as they choose.

ChocolateSauce

I went to a private quaker boarding school, and it was a kip. The only elitist in the school was the headmaster.

The sad fact of the matter is that many public schools are ****. We spend less on education per pupil than the rest of the EU, have larger classes than the rest of the EU, and yet pay our teachers more than the rest of the EU. I don't think state should be funding private schools ideally, but until such a time as all school in the country are equally good and secular, private schools must remain.

Dudess

Great post MizzLolly.

MizzLolly wrote: »

I used to be sick going to school, I hated the way the scum in the classes got to dictate whether or not we could learn something that day. We lost five teachers during the leaving cert following a series of accidents like their cars being destroyed, knives being pulled and fights breaking out in the classrooms on a weekly basis. This was completely normal for us but I hated it.

Unfortunately though, while I realise some state schools have an abundance of problems such as the above, some of the "private school only" lobby argue this applies to every state school there is, which is just pathetic ignorance.

Dudess

spurious wrote: »

No such thing as a good school.

I'd have to disagree when it comes to the question of facilities.

spurious

Dudess wrote: »

I'd have to disagree when it comes to the question of facilities.

There are well equipped schools certainly, but I think generally in Ireland when people say 'XXX is a good school' they imply some sort of better chance of doing well in/after school rather than facilities. I could be wrong. Many of the fee-paying schools in Ireland have fairly average facilities compared to some newer VEC colleges.

Dudess

MizzLolly wrote: »

*I'm not knocking private education btw, I'd certainly consider it for my kids in the future given my school experience.

I just saw this bit now - I think, with respect, that's falling into the trap of a certain mindset (major apologies if I've taken you up wrongly and it isn't intended as an insult). But it's not as if the only alternative to the school environment you experienced is a fee-paying school.

spurious wrote: »

There are well equipped schools certainly, but I think generally in Ireland when people say 'XXX is a good school' they imply some sort of better chance of doing well in/after school rather than facilities. I could be wrong. Many of the fee-paying schools in Ireland have fairly average facilities compared to some newer VEC colleges.

Oh absolutely, and yes, I disagree (generally speaking) that a school alone is responsible for the student's academic record.

jonsnow

Having got the whole ball rolling I just want to clarify a few things.Firstly I wrote my initial comments having just read the article over lunch (the tone of which really pissed me off) and as I was rushing out the door so I'll be the first to put my hands up and admit it was sloppy both thematically and grammatically.

But some people seem to have missed my central point-what annoyed me is not the fact that she wants the best for her kids by sending them to fee paying schools.Or the existence of fee paying schools-i've no problem there.Or the fact that the state pays for the teachers wages in fee paying schools-i've no issue with that.Its the hypocrisy of claiming that the parents who have sent their kids to an elite fee-paying school are not elitist or that shes doing it to teach her boys "something about giving back to society".Riiiight.

If you want to give your kids every advantage in life then more power to you.I think we can all agree that a disproportionate amount of the judiciary,legal profession,senior politicians and taoiseachs,senior civil servants ,bankers, media personalities, and big businessmen have graduated from our fee-paying schools.You can call the old school tie effect mythical if you want but in a country as small and tribal as Ireland it does exist and it is powerful.

I have no problem with people playing the system to get their kids ahead.But I resent that same person turning around and saying patently untrue statements like "I have never met a spoiled brat at the school,either pupil or parent" or "we don,t have elite schools in this county" or "they are populated by the sons and daughters of ordinary hardworking people".They may be hardworking but they are far from ordinary if they can afford to pay the fees in the current climate.

I went to a public school (obviously) and got a good education but as another poster(Mizzlolly) from a public school which sounds much much worse than mine has saidmany people who attend these fee paying schools live life in a bubble not realising that for someone from a less fortunate background to achieve the same results actually requires far more effort on their part.

I have no problem with people from private school backgrounds.Many of my friends have attended either those schools or prestigous gaelscoils.And most of those friends would put their hands up and admit they attended "elite schools" and got a headstart in life.

Dudess

I don't think those who send their children to private schools are necessarily elitist, to be fair. Some are, but a damn sight aren't.

However, that guff about teaching her sons how to "give something back to society"... what the fuk?!

RMD

jonsnow wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/education/2009/0929/1224255433096.html

Pretty nauseating stuff.Maintains that Clongowes is populated by the "sons and daughters of ordinary hardworking people", and lone parents-although she does admit that it costs 16,000 a year.If it wasn,t some kind of elite school why spend that kind of dosh so!!!.

this is so typical of our elite in Ireland.They view themselves as ordinary and hardworking and see themselves as having got ahead purely by their own hard work and talents-never acknowledging all the old boy and old girl networks that have protected and helped them to success their entire lives.

Most of the "elite" I know have worked a lot harder than other people out there to become the "elite". My dad is a well payed Barrister who grew up in Crumlin, went to a terrible school but worked his ass off to get where he is.

Sean Quinn, the richest man in Irelnd left school as a teen and started his business career digging gravel from one of his parents field. To say he hasn't worked his ass off is also rather unfair.

jonsnow

RMD wrote: »

Most of the "elite" I know have worked a lot harder than other people out there to become the "elite". My dad is a well payed Barrister who grew up in Crumlin, went to a terrible school but worked his ass off to get where he is.

Sean Quinn, the richest man in Irelnd left school as a teen and started his business career digging gravel from one of his parents field. To say he hasn't worked his ass off is also rather unfair.

I,m not saying you can,t make it if you didn,t attend a fee paying school.I just said that its a lot easier if you did.

My daughter started in a fee paying school in September. I never intended sending her to private school but she went to the montessori there when she was 3 for two years and it would have broken her heart to move.

I'm far from elitist, My husband and I were both brought up in council estates, we are working class. My husband has a good job, I'm a secretary. I can't stand begrudgery or snobbery, both are equally disgusting.

The parents of the children in my daughters school are not snobs at all, they're all lovely lovely people. The school is like a big family, the children call the teachers by their first names and they call the kids "chicken" and "sweetie" and give them hugs when they're leaving for the weekend. Hardly stuck up.

There are 12 people in her class and this is a big deal to me, the non fee paying school I was going to send her to had 35 kids starting this September.

Stereotypes just p*ss me off so much

NaiveMelodies

jonsnow wrote: »

I,m not saying you can,t make it if you didn,t attend a fee paying school.I just said that its a lot easier if you did.

Rubbish Rubbish Rubbish.

jonsnow

only1stevo wrote: »

Rubbish Rubbish Rubbish.

so why do a disproportionate percentage of people from a small number of schools have such a say on the political,economical and social life of our country!.Why do all those "ordinary" parents fork out so much money if they don,t think its going to give their kids some edge or advantage in life!!

Dudess

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Maybe I should have phrased what I said better. I went to a public school, and I have seen students lay their hands on teachers. Actually physically attacking their teacher. No offence, but I don't think shop lifting comes near that in terms of difficult behaviour. Seeing a teacher being attacked by a student diminishes their ability to command the class quite drastically.

Oh I'm not comparing shoplifting to assault, but my point is: anti-social behaviour isn't just the preserve of people from certain class backgrounds. I don't agree it's not possible for a student at a private school to assault a teacher. And I wouldn't be surprised if teachers in private schools were less protected, because of how "powerful" the parents of some of the students there are.

Peer pressure can happen everywhere, and there are plenty of people who manage to resist it. I would put that down largely to the character instilled in them by their parents or guardians. I would say anyone who bows to peer pressure has a need for love, a need to feel accepted no matter the cost and these would be things that they are not getting at home. That's a failure on the parents part in my humble opinion.

Peer pressure can affect anyone - including those with excellent parents.

RMD

jonsnow wrote: »

I,m not saying you can,t make it if you didn,t attend a fee paying school.I just said that its a lot easier if you did.

No, I was pointing out the fact you were saying most of the "elites" in Ireland are born into being snobs and elitist about life, will never have to work a day in their life to achieve success etc, when that's clearly not the fact.

genericguy wrote: »

agreed.

i wouldn't be interested in sending any children i may have to one of these schools, irrespective of my income. i went to an absolute shithole school, and although i probably wouldn't choose one of those for my children either, public schools are far better for character development than private schools full of fintans and andreas, and that in my view is far more important than a 600 point leaving certificate.

Jesuit schools I think are quite an exception to the typical snobbish private school. All teach "turning a boy in a man", all seem to be heavily involved in charity work (most notably Belvedere college). When I want to teach my son character, I'm packing him off to a Jesuit school as I feel through character is built through working for other people true charity, and no schools do that on the scale the Jesuits do.

Teferi

jonsnow wrote: »

I have no problem with people from private school backgrounds.Many of my friends have attended either those schools or prestigous gaelscoils.And most of those friends would put their hands up and admit they attended "elite schools" and got a headstart in life.

"Some of my best friends are gay but..."

jonsnow wrote: »

Its the hypocrisy of claiming that the parents who have sent their kids to an elite fee-paying school are not elitist ht.

"they are populated by the sons and daughters of ordinary hardworking people".They may be hardworking but they are far from ordinary if they can afford to pay the fees in the current climate.

Realistically, you don't have a clue about private schools. Go visit one for longer than a day and get a proper feel for them. You get a huge mix of backgrounds in a private schools. My parents (very much middle class and very ordinary) scrimped and saved too send me to a school and they done without things they wanted so they could send me to it. They are not elitist at all and I can safely say that around 90% of my peers parents were the same. Of course, there was always one or two **** but you'll get them in private and public schools.

Basically, your posts are full of unfounded rubbish.

Dudess

Yeah, the schools that have the elitist elements tend to be catholic ones. Protestant/non denominational private schools seem more right-on and artsy.

Eoin

Dudess wrote: »

And I wouldn't be surprised if teachers in private schools were less protected, because of how "powerful" the parents of some of the students there are.

Ah come on now, you're making it sound like the parents are in the illuminati or something. If any student - no matter who their parents were - threatened or actually assaulted a teacher, they'd be out the door very fast.

genericguy

RMD wrote: »

Jesuit schools I think are quite an exception to the typical snobbish private school. All teach "turning a boy in a man", all seem to be heavily involved in charity work (most notably Belvedere college). When I want to teach my son character, I'm packing him off to a Jesuit school as I feel through character is built through working for other people true charity, and no schools do that on the scale the Jesuits do.

personally i won't have any child attending a religious school, if they find religion useful then so be it, but i'd prefer they come to their own conclusions via some form of rational inquiry rather than indoctrination - likewise with charity work, i'd prefer they construct their own moral code. I have no real problem with private schools, at all, and i will say that if a pay-school happened to be the best option for any child i might have i wouldn't hesitate. however, my point is that i would much prefer to have a child come out of education street smart aswell as booksmart, as i like to think i have, and this is in my view generally not accomplished by private schools. i work in a university and i see a very high proportion of privately educated children who have not a single ounce of cop-on, despite having received the best educations money can buy.

Eoin

What do you mean by street smart in this context? How would you see a public school teaching this in a way a private school wouldn't?

jonsnow

RMD wrote: »

No, I was pointing out the fact you were saying most of the "elites" in Ireland are born into being snobs and elitist about life, will never have to work a day in their life to achieve success etc, when that's clearly not the fact.

Firstly I,ve already admitted that my initial post was poorly phrased,so i guess I should have said "some of our elite".Secondly if you think that attending an elite school isn,t going to give you a certain elitist view of the world you are being naive.Thirdly, I never said anywhere that people who attended fee schools wouldn,t have to work to achieve success-What I said was when they achieved success and won the race of life many of them would refuse to acknowledge they were born next to the finishing line.

RMD wrote: »

Jesuit schools I think are quite an exception to the typical snobbish private school. All teach "turning a boy in a man", all seem to be heavily involved in charity work (most notably Belvedere college). When I want to teach my son character, I'm packing him off to a Jesuit school as I feel through character is built through working for other people true charity, and no schools do that on the scale the Jesuits do.

Yeah thats why parents send their kids to belvedere -to become charity workers.

genericguy

eoin wrote: »

What do you mean by street smart in this context? How would you see a public school teaching this in a way a private school wouldn't?

there is a greater variety of people attending public schools than private, were the bulk of students (not all, but a considerable majority) come from similar, more affluent backgrounds - interaction with members of different strata of society is what imbues children with what i referred to as 'street smarts', - the ability to deal with different types of people in different ways, and it just doesn't happen in the circles educated in private schools, no matter which way you spin it.

Dudess

eoin wrote: »

Ah come on now, you're making it sound like the parents are in the illuminati or something.

Yeah, it's more a speculative comment than a presumption. Probably need to stop watching films about private schools in the US...

Seriously though, while I know it's unlikely, I wouldn't rule it out entirely in the case of a handful. It's amazing what power and wealth can do for you (but I'm not suggesting most private school students would have that to fall back on).

Eoin

genericguy wrote: »

there is a greater variety of people attending public schools than private, were the bulk of students (not all, but a considerable majority) come from similar, more affluent backgrounds - interaction with members of different strata of society is what imbues children with what i referred to as 'street smarts', - the ability to deal with different types of people in different ways, and it just doesn't happen in the circles educated in private schools, no matter which way you spin it.

I think that's nonsense, but I can't be arsed "spinning" it any more - clearly there are a lot of people with chips on their shoulders.

brosps

If you check out the average leaving cert points for individual schools you'd notice that private schools infact, do better on a frequent basis.

However that's not to say if you have no motivation and go to a private school you'll do better.80% of it is up to the individual, but if you can afford it why the hell would you not pay for it, education and healthcare are two of the only things in this society that are actually worth a penny.

Also, atrocious mod abuse on the third page.

genericguy

eoin wrote: »

I think that's nonsense, but I can't be arsed "spinning" it any more - clearly there are a lot of people with chips on their shoulders.

you see, therein lies the problem - the proponents of private education always assume that anybody who favours a way of life other than their own has a chip on their shoulder. while in some cases this may be true, for me this absolutely isn't the case, all i'm saying is i would rather be able to say that i raised a well-adjusted, well-rounded individual with a good appreciation of the circumstances of others who are in some cases less/more fortunate, good people, criminals, or those who are simply pricks. all of whom they will certainly encounter throughout their lives.

ballsymchugh

Dudess wrote: »

Yeah, the schools that have the elitist elements tend to be catholic ones. Protestant/non denominational private schools seem more right-on and artsy.

dudess u was kinda agreeing with you up until this post. so now it's not just private schools, but Catholic private schools. as many previous posters have said, Jesuit schools are for more than just education and are character building.

but to everyone!!
you are all basing this on a minority of d!ckwads that go to any school. yes, there are kids in private schools that see themselves as superior beings to most, but only some. but they tend to be vocal (that furore on the wonderful joe duffy show during the summer about blackrock being on case)
it's like the other thread on hating the english. i hate the english because their football supporters piss me off every time there's a world cup on. that's a minority of supporters too. they just tend to be vocal.

seriously. how many people here are basing their posts on ross o'carroll kelly books?? hands up!!!

the op is right though. character building should begin at home. seems more like that parent wants an expensive babysitter.

Dudess

Eoin, I don't know. While there is a degree of diversity in private schools (and to be fair, they are far more inclusive now than they would have been in the past) it's reasonable to say a student would be exposed to a hell of a lot more diversity in terms of ranges of backgrounds at a state school.

phasers

Everyone can go to whatever school they like tbh. My secondary school was a ****hole but I and many others still did better than some people who went to private school.

It depends on the student, and if the parents have 12 grand or whatever it is to spare, let them pay it!

jonsnow

Teferi wrote: »

"Some of my best friends are gay but..."

Some posters have said that I should talk to people who have attended private schools.I do every single day.That was the point I was making.I didn,t say "but all fee paying schools should be closed down etc,etc".I said they agreed with me.Throwing that cliche around isn,t as clever as you think.

Teferi wrote: »

Realistically, you don't have a clue about private schools. Go visit one for longer than a day and get a proper feel for them.

You,re right I,ll enroll in one next week and sit my leaving again.

Teferi wrote: »

You get a huge mix of backgrounds in a private schools.

No you don,t.They are fairly homogenous racially and socially.

Teferi wrote: »

My parents (very much middle class and very ordinary) scrimped and saved too send me to a school and they done without things they wanted so they could send me to it. They are not elitist at all and I can safely say that around 90% of my peers parents were the same.

So your saying in a country as snobby as Ireland which is riven by class division there is practically no snobbery in the countrys most elite schools.Yeah right

Teferi wrote: »

Basically, your posts are full of unfounded rubbish.

Right back at you