New M3/N3 - tolls...?!

Barname

chino38 wrote: »

Can anyone advise what on/off ramps one should take to avoid tolls when travelling from Cavan towards Clonee?

someone heading to Cavan seeking to avoid tolls.... perpetuating the stereotype!

Lobster

I drove down the N3 last week and I did notice that the roundabouts and signs seemed to lead to the M3 rather than N3. I found those new roundabout signs very unhelpfull for finding the N3, infact I think one flashing sign said to use the M3. I returned via the M3, 1.30 euros at the two toll plazzas.
Has anyone timed both routes? What is there to be saved using the M3?

Fiskar

Lobster wrote: »

I drove down the N3 last week and I did notice that the roundabouts and signs seemed to lead to the M3 rather than N3. I found those new roundabout signs very unhelpfull for finding the N3, infact I think one flashing sign said to use the M3. I returned via the M3, 1.30 euros at the two toll plazzas.
Has anyone timed both routes? What is there to be saved using the M3?

Technically and I speak from the bike perspective, it is 16 mins from toll to navan south roundabout at Kilcarn, similar journey was 26 to 28 mins on N3 but now 21 to 22 mins. If however you do the 80 kph it will be 30 mins!

jock101

One toll at Clonee is just about acceptable for 1.30c for now, But the second toll just beyond the Navan North/Delvin interchange is just Highway robbery. Especially for the what extra 10miles/17km approx. No way is that justified, and the funny thing is that suddenly your cruising at 120km/hr. Bang end of motorway signs appear lol. Then back to the crappy N3 from Kells North to Enniskillen. 5.20 yoyo's for the poor eejit's from Dublin that bought gaffs in kells, Virginia and even Cavan town, God help you's, you'd want to be an TD or an Anglo Executive for that lark. Plus I dont like Meath Coco's lowering the speed limit on the old N3 from Kells to Navan to 80km/h is just to aggravate motorists into using the Privatised M3. People of North Meath, if I lived there I would be ordering your TD's to disband, at least the second toll.

Barname

jock101 wrote: »

One toll at Clonee is just about acceptable for 1.30c for now, But the second toll just beyond the Navan North/Delvin interchange is just Highway robbery. Especially for the what extra 10miles/17km approx. No way is that justified, and the funny thing is that suddenly your cruising at 120km/hr. Bang end of motorway signs appear lol. Then back to the crappy N3 from Kells North to Enniskillen. 5.20 yoyo's for the poor eejit's from Dublin that bought gaffs in kells, Virginia and even Cavan town, God help you's, you'd want to be an TD or an Anglo Executive for that lark. Plus I dont like Meath Coco's lowering the speed limit on the old N3 from Kells to Navan to 80km/h is just to aggravate motorists into using the Privatised M3. People of North Meath, if I lived there I would be ordering your TD's to disband, at least the second toll.

disband the Toll booth?

Q. Who will recompense the operators?

A. The taxpayer

No thanks, let the user pay

Its great value IMO

4 c per KM - you lose more than that with poor fuel efficiency on the N3

squod

Barname wrote: »

4 c per KM - you lose more than that with poor fuel efficiency on the N3

If people seriously believe the average family car fairs better at a constant 75mph vs a few more stops and starts and a 40 to 50mph average speed then I'm gonna need proof.

jock101

Barname wrote: »

disband the Toll booth?

Q. Who will recompense the operators?

A. The taxpayer

No thanks, let the user pay

Its great value IMO

4 c per KM - you lose more than that with poor fuel efficiency on the N3

Fair enough as it doe not affect me as I only visit Kells a few times a year. But if I was working in the Dublin especially south of the M50 toll, thats a lot of cash just to travel to work. The old chestnut that in France etc.. they pay higher tolls every 80km or so to use there motorways, true but they dont have road tax or VRT, and with all the other taxes on Motoring like VRT, Insurance levies, massive road tax, Fuel excise, NCT. What next? Probably Road pricing!

Barname

squod wrote: »

If people seriously believe the average family car fairs better at a constant 75mph vs a few more stops and starts and a 40 to 50mph average speed then I'm gonna need proof.

OK choose to ignore fuel efficiency, leave that aside...

maybe this will make more sense ?

The minimum wage in Ireland is €8,65 pH

that equates to 14,4 c per minute

I have timed the difference avoiding the Black Bull Toll

It runs between 10 and 15 minutes

15 minutes if you obey speed limits

15 minutes x 14,4c = €2,16

The Toll is €1,30

even a person on minimum wage 'outearns' time saved

and thats not allowing for speeding tkts, fuel savings, wear and tear etc

jock101

Barname wrote: »

OK choose to ignore fuel efficiency, leave that aside...

maybe this will make more sense ?

The minimum wage in Ireland is €8,65 pH

that equates to 14,4 c per minute

I have timed the difference avoiding the Black Bull Toll

It runs between 10 and 15 minutes

15 minutes if you obey speed limits

15 minutes x 14,4c = €2,16

The Toll is €1,30

even a person on minimum wage 'outearns' time saved

and thats not allowing for speeding tkts, fuel savings, wear and tear etc

In fairness, if your on minimum wage. You probably wont have a car and will not be driving to Dublin to work for such a low wage!

Its the principle of being forced to pay "again" to use roads that you have paid road tax to use! Simple like France, Road tax or Toll roads. Not both!

Barname

jock101 wrote: »

In fairness, if your on minimum wage. You probably wont have a car and will not be driving to Dublin to work for such a low wage!

Its the principle of being forced to pay "again" to use roads that you have paid road tax to use! Simple like France, Road tax or Toll roads. Not both!

we can argue about principles and other countries until the day we die

we live in Ireland and a lot of things are done arseways

life is short, we need to be smart, do what works for us, not cut off our noses to spite our faces, failing that a revolution is required.

If 30 minutes off of a commute means spending extra time with kids or family, what price can you put on that?

(I have sat in major Jams on French Motorways btw, they aint all they are cracked up to be)

jock101

OK, I can just about accept two tolls from Dublin to Cork, as your driving almost half the length of the Country. But two tolls to drive 70km, come on! Yes 1.30 is low, but as tolls are due to rise this autumn due to EU Laws regarding VAT charges on Tolls. In 5 years it will be probably be double the current rate.

sofireland

Afaik the vat only applies to state owned toll roads eg m50
the m3 toll is operated privately and you can see the vat breakdown on the receipt

kelle

It's a lot cheaper than using the motorways in France!

jock101

Oh well, nothing changes in this "lovely little Country of ours":rolleyes:. As the inhabitants already put up with double taxation aka VRT and Tolls.

So prepare for Congestion Charges and in a few years Road Pricing!:eek: Taxes that really only hurt the working poor.

Good Luck with that!

AnCatDubh

kelle wrote: »

It's a lot cheaper than using the motorways in France!

True, and closer to home, cheaper than using the M4 each day (€2.90 single toll), and lots of opportunities to avoid the tolls if you want to.

So, if ye are from Navan then you're doing pretty good tbh, and if from Kells/Cavan then your still doing better than if you lived in Enfield or Mullingar.

jock101

AnCatDubh wrote: »

True, and closer to home, cheaper than using the M4 each day (€2.90 single toll), and lots of opportunities to avoid the tolls if you want to.

So, if ye are from Navan then you're doing pretty good tbh, and if from Kells/Cavan then your still doing better than if you lived in Enfield or Mullingar.

Yes, but what will it cost in two years? It probably wont matter as motoring for the average Joe will cost to much!

_Kaiser_

Barname wrote: »

disband the Toll booth?

Q. Who will recompense the operators?

A. The taxpayer

No thanks, let the user pay

Just wanted to point out that there is a clause in the contract that states that the traffic through the tolls isn't x, the government (ie: the taxpayer) will pay y to the toll operator in compensation.

Therefore, either way the taxpayer is likely to end up paying for this motorway (again), so the 2nd toll could be scrapped without any real additional impact to the taxpayer or motorist*

* Of course this assumes that nothing else changes - no doubt the toll at the south end would be increased to make up for the loss of the Navan toll.

Barname

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Just wanted to point out that there is a clause in the contract that states that the traffic through the tolls isn't x, the government (ie: the taxpayer) will pay y to the toll operator in compensation.

Therefore, either way the taxpayer is likely to end up paying for this motorway (again), so the 2nd toll could be scrapped without any real additional impact to the taxpayer or motorist*

* Of course this assumes that nothing else changes - no doubt the toll at the south end would be increased to make up for the loss of the Navan toll.

wrong, your statement contradicts itself

kindly clarify

taffy1973

Lobster wrote: »

I drove down the N3 last week and I did notice that the roundabouts and signs seemed to lead to the M3 rather than N3. I found those new roundabout signs very unhelpfull for finding the N3, infact I think one flashing sign said to use the M3. I returned via the M3, 1.30 euros at the two toll plazzas.
Has anyone timed both routes? What is there to be saved using the M3?

travel daily along the M3/N3 in my van and have travelled both routes since opening of the motorway and have done a few tests and calculations. from virginia to dunboyne only has a time saving of 15-20 mins ( keeping to speed limit of course) for a cost of 4 euros toll (2 euro per toll) at 120kph but also loosing 5 miles per gallon on fuel economy, yet at 80kph on old road with no traffic i am gaining approx 8 miles per gallon and saving the toll of 4 euro each way. lot of people are not factoring in the extra fuel cost at the higher speed, great road tho which is good for the one off journeys but expensive for a regular commute from the far side of kells. Toll charges were supposed to be 1.90 for car and 3.80 for van at each toll but reduced rate until end of this year. Link roads from N3 to M3 are quite long if you are thinking of hopping on and off the M3 to avoid the tolls so i found that you are probably better off sticking to the old road at 80kph for fuel saving and not taking that much longer as the road has no traffic on it at all

Fiskar

taffy1973 wrote: »

travel daily along the M3/N3 in my van and have travelled both routes since opening of the motorway and have done a few tests and calculations. from virginia to dunboyne only has a time saving of 15-20 mins ( keeping to speed limit of course) for a cost of 4 euros toll (2 euro per toll) at 120kph but also loosing 5 miles per gallon on fuel economy, yet at 80kph on old road with no traffic i am gaining approx 8 miles per gallon and saving the toll of 4 euro each way. lot of people are not factoring in the extra fuel cost at the higher speed, great road tho which is good for the one off journeys but expensive for a regular commute from the far side of kells. Toll charges were supposed to be 1.90 for car and 3.80 for van at each toll but reduced rate until end of this year. Link roads from N3 to M3 are quite long if you are thinking of hopping on and off the M3 to avoid the tolls so i found that you are probably better off sticking to the old road at 80kph for fuel saving and not taking that much longer as the road has no traffic on it at all

What most know by now but don't tell anyone or they'll all be using it.
N3 is less distance and just as quick, Let the Cavan home owners pay the toll!

_Kaiser_

Barname wrote: »

wrong, your statement contradicts itself

kindly clarify

How does my statement contradict itself? There IS a clause in the contract that says if the traffic through the tolls doesn't meet a certain level, then the government (ie: the taxpayer) will compensate the operator for the difference.

If this happens, then having already contributed towards the cost of building this motorway under the PPP structure, the taxpayer will pay again in compensating the operator for the shortfall.

From the Irish Independent last year

The 'minimum traffic level' clause for the M3 was included in the contract for the €650m motorway through Co Meath. It means the State will have to pay the toll operators, Eurolink, compensation if traffic flows (predicted at up to 60,000 drivers per day) fail to meet the agreed minimum target. But the National Roads Authority (NRA) has not revealed what this target is.

karltimber

I find the n3 just fine now - since there's no traffic on it.

I did the same as some and worked out different routes - n3, m3, summerhill and m3 to avoid toll, but the n3 is shorter, less fuel etc.

I leave home at 6.00am to get to work at 7am - so now leave at 6.10am and it's a grand drive - navan to leixlip

m3 is ok for one off journeys for blanch, dublin city etc,

k

burger1979

Has anyone seen any speed traps on the N3 over the last week or so? i have not seen one. I dont use the M3 regularly the N3 is fine again in the mornings and evenings.

Dubh Geannain

burger1979 wrote: »

Has anyone seen any speed traps on the N3 over the last week or so? i have not seen one. I dont use the M3 regularly the N3 is fine again in the mornings and evenings.

A traffic corps car pulled out behind me and followed me for about 3 miles out of Kells last Tuesday night (about 11ish) towards Navan. They just pulled in eventually at a closed petrol station.

It's a struggle to keep to the new limits.

stomprockin

burger1979 wrote: »

Has anyone seen any speed traps on the N3 over the last week or so? i have not seen one. I dont use the M3 regularly the N3 is fine again in the mornings and evenings.

Its Way to early, wait till after the summer.Then you will see it thats for sure!

meercat

Burger
2 speed traps so far
gatso van in car park of county club catching city bound traffic opposite school. Last week
traffic corps in turn off ,on left ,1/2 mile before workhouse,northbound. Today 11oclock
gps n53 29.558'
w06 31.459'

adelcrowsmel

meercat wrote: »

Burger
2 speed traps so far
gatso van in car park of county club catching city bound traffic opposite school. Last week
traffic corps in turn off ,on left ,1/2 mile before workhouse,northbound. Today 11oclock
gps n53 29.558'
w06 31.459'

Great..... never spotted the gatso van myself - so i'll probably have a ticket coming in the post in a few weeks:(:( I haven't a clue what the vans look like so I don't know what to look out for at all!! Would you notice if one of them got you i.e. would you see the flash go off or would you be totally oblivious until you get your mail?? When was the van in the county club or it still there??

meercat

White high roof transit. Blackened rere windows. No flash, just camera.Just parked inside car park with window facing road from dunshaughlin.

adelcrowsmel

meercat wrote: »

White high roof transit. Blackened rere windows. No flash, just camera.Just parked inside car park with window facing road from dunshaughlin.

Thanks for that meercat - if thats what they look like, I think there might have been one across the road from Dalgan Park this morning (just by where the old burnt-out fixed speed camera is). If that one has been in the County Club for a few days - I might have lost my licence already - adding up 2 points a day:eek::eek:

burger1979

seen that camera that van this morning was doing 100 and then when i passed it by i thought to myself probably a camera alright. oh well deux points for me.