The WC 2010 playoff draw WILL be seeded.

briany

Yes yes, credit goes to Dubmick for this piece of info. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=62312519#post62312519

Link to the story is included there as well. We could be royally boned if this is true.:(

Nalz

is this 100% offically confirmed?

Unearthly

World Cup dreams shattered

Kingp35

Absolutely ZERO confirmation in that article so I will not be getting worried until I see an official quote from FIFA confirming this.

Fr Tod Umptious

briany wrote: »

Yes yes, credit goes to Dubmick for this piece of info. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=62312519#post62312519

Link to the story is included there as well. We could be royally boned.:(

Nothing in the News page of the FIFA website
http://www.fifa.com/worldcup/preliminaries/europe/news/index.html

To the best of my knowledge those draws have not been seeded in the past

briany

I can't know if it's 100% official. I'll check RTE but today was supposed to be the day that they made their decision and eleven a side is a reputable website is it not?

CHD

France please

rovingrover

Word is it will be because they want France to qualify. Although not official it will happen.

Leixlip_Red

This is a fucking disgrace ! Why only decide to seed the draw now ! If this goes through it is an absolute joke.

Unless it is some ridiculous seeding system where Ireland are in the first pot

newballsplease

This is an absolute joke.

All rules/formalities etc should be decided before a ball is kicked in the qualifiers.

I hope this isnt 100% confirmed yet. This wasnt the case in previous years i dont think??

Fifa ****ting their pants that France,Portugal, maybe Germany might not make WC10??

rovingrover

Leixlip_Red wrote: »

This is a fucking disgrace ! Why only decide to seed the draw now ! If this goes through it is an absolute joke.

Unless it is some ridiculous seeding system where Ireland are in the first pot

We won't be in the first pot.

They want France there for tv. Remember the referee will know that too. France are crap but they will qualify.

Croatia is our best hope. They won't care who wins a Croatia v Ireland playoff.

will1977

According to the Star today they said on the FIFA website up to the 12Sep they had that it was an open draw but has since been taken down.

I think this is a discrace. Change the rules half way through to service their own greedy needs.

I wonder if there is anything in writing somwhere so the FAI could appeal it

prendy

they cant do this, surely everyone knew the qualification route before the start of qualifing. They cant just move the gaolposts now.

Morzadec

What is the criteria for the seeding? World ranking? Or performance in the group?

Looks like potential bad news anyway...

Russia is the one we really want to avoid

orourkeda

Unearthly wrote: »

World Cup dreams shattered

Not necessarily. Depends who gets into the playoffs. We havent got there yet

orourkeda

Morzadec wrote: »

What is the criteria for the seeding? World ranking? Or performance in the group?

Looks like potential bad news anyway...

Russia is the one we really want to avoid

France and Portugal may end up in the play offs also.

briany

http://www.blatantnews.com/news/world_cup_2010_qualifiers_in_europe_the_fifa_fraud.html

Morzadec

orourkeda wrote: »

France and Portugal may end up in the play offs also.

I'm aware of this

Daysha

If it's based solely on the world rankings, it wouldn't actually be that bad. Here are the current 2nd place teams and their current world rankings (with the possible exception of Portugal in instead of Sweden)

Russia - 6th
Croatia - 9th
France - 10th
Greece - 12th
---
Portugal - 17th
Ireland - 38th
(Sweden - 41st)
Bosnia - 46th
Slovenia - 54th

To be fair, we'd definitely take Greece, and I'd be quietly confident of beating the Croatians too. Russia and France would be tough yeah, but I thought it would be a lot worse.

Funnily enough, if Latvia (ranked 58th) finish ahead of Greece in 2nd, and Sweden finish 2nd ahead of Portugal, we'd be seeded 1st! It would be very hard to do, with both Latvia and Sweden having to travel to Greece and Denmark respectively and get wins, but it'd be hilarious if it actually happened.

But I'm sure FIFA will think of some crazy way to replace Greece with Portugal as seeds. Maybe a nice bump in the rankings next month?

Morzadec

Daysha wrote: »

If it's based solely on the world rankings, it wouldn't actually be that bad. Here are the current 2nd place teams and their current world rankings (with the possible exception of Portugal in instead of Sweden)

Russia - 6th
Croatia - 9th
France - 10th
Greece - 12th
---
Portugal - 17th
Ireland - 38th
(Sweden - 41st)
Bosnia - 46th
Slovenia - 54th

To be fair, we'd definitely take Greece, and I'd be quietly confident of beating the Croatians too. Russia and France would be tough yeah, but I thought it would be a lot worse.

Funnily enough, if Latvia (ranked 58th) finish ahead of Greece in 2nd, and Sweden finish 2nd ahead of Portugal, we'd be seeded 1st! It would be very hard to do, with both Latvia and Sweden having to travel to Greece and Denmark respectively and get wins, but it'd be hilarious if it actually happened.

But I'm sure FIFA will think of some crazy way to replace Greece with Portugal as seeds. Maybe a nice bump in the rankings next month?

Dosn't really make for good reading IMO. Only plus is that we avoid Portugal. But when we could get Slovenia or Bosnia it's a bit of a sickener. I think we will probably be 2nd favourites against all those teams.

I would agree that Greece could be our best option. If we draw them be prepared for the worst 180 minutes of football you will ever see. Tough one to call - they will probably be slight favourites but we would have every chance to nick a victory.

As I said Russia is the one we really want to avoid. I see no way of us beating them over 2 legs to be perfectly honest.

France are obviously a big nation and we would be firmly 2nd favourites, but I would give us a glimmer of hope here as long as Domenech stays in charge. However, I would expect France to up their game with WC qualification at stake and I wouldn't have too high expectations to qualify if we were to draw them.

Croatia looked like they might not be quite as good as a couple of years ago. But they still have an array of attacking talent far superior to ours. Their speed in attack against our (lets face it) slow centre-backs could kill us. Croatia would be favourites but we would have a chance.


All in all I think this definitely hurts our chances. The only thing positive is that we might have the 'underdog' mentality and Trap's tactics/style could be well suited to a game in which we set out not to lose.

Daysha

Do you think it'll be too much to ask to try get a 2nd leg at home in return?

Bandit12

Football is corrupt shocker :rolleyes:

Kingp35

Lads you are all posting as if this is fact. Wait until FIFA confirm this before getting worried.

NaiveMelodies

Id say croatia would wreck us, technically they are far and away stronger! Greece would be a very tough place to go to but they are prob our best bet.

ShooterSF

This would be a crazy decision if they went ahead with it and they would be lambasted by some FAs I'd imagine. Every team went into a group with a top seed, second seed etc. so the groups were as fair as possible so after that there should be no ranking of the second place teams..

Pisco Sour

If this is true then I think all my remaining faith in the sport will be washed away :mad:

greendom

04072511 wrote: »

If this is true then I think all my remaining faith in the sport will be washed away :mad:

Why? Can't say I understand this point of view. International tournaments are always seeded aren't they. The idea being that the sides considered to be the strongest don't knock each other out before the latter stages. Can't see anything wrong with this. It's always happened before why should they stop now ? Because it doesn't suit Ireland ?

Pisco Sour

greendom wrote: »

Why? Can't say I understand this point of view. International tournaments are always seeded aren't they. The idea being that the sides considered to be the strongest don't knock each other out before the latter stages. Can't see anything wrong with this. It's always happened before why should they stop now ? Because it doesn't suit Ireland ?

It hasnt always happened before. In 1998, 2000 and 2002 we were in an open pot on all 3 occasions.

2006 is the only time I remember a seeded playoff draw.

If it was decided before the world cup qualification started I'd accept it, I wouldnt agree with it, but I'd accept it, but this notion of waiting until who gets to the playoffs stinks of corruption. Whatever happened to "FIFA Fair Play"!!!

briany

Definately no way we could beat France. Well, OK stranger things HAVE happened but you wouldn't bank on them, would you? Speaking of stranger things, we won't have to worry about playoffs because we will beat Italy and montenegro and Italy will fail to beat Cyprus.;)

greendom

04072511 wrote: »

It hasnt always happened before. In 1998, 2000 and 2002 we were in an open pot on all 3 occasions.

2006 is the only time I remember a seeded playoff draw.

If it was decided before the world cup qualification started I'd accept it, I wouldnt agree with it, but I'd accept it, but this notion of waiting until who gets to the playoffs stinks of corruption. Whatever happened to "FIFA Fair Play"!!!

Ok if that's the case I can understand a little. I still think it's fairer to seed than no to though. I agree though this should all be well publicised before the tournament starts, not half-way through

me-skywalker

It WONT be seeded! If it is its a FIFA conspiracy!

If it is seeded that is a conspiracy by FIFA because that would mean hypothetically France and Portugal who are 'big name' teams would get a lower seeded team shoudl they make the playoffs rather than have the option to get each other!

Pisco Sour

greendom wrote: »

Ok if that's the case I can understand a little. I still think it's fairer to seed than no to though. I agree though this should all be well publicised before the tournament starts, not half-way through

Shooters comment above is spot on. The draw has been made with the intention of all groups being of equal difficulty. Whoever comes 2nd in a group has achieved nothing more or nothing less than other teams who finished 2nd. It should be an open draw.

Spare a thought for Slovenia, a FIFTH seeded team who have performed magnificently to quite possibly come 2nd and their hopes will be dashed because of FIFA's need to have France and Germany in the world cup for commerical reasons.

Nothing is about sport anymore. Its all business. I'm disgusted!!

greendom

04072511 wrote: »

Shooters comment above is spot on. The draw has been made with the intention of all groups being of equal difficulty. Whoever comes 2nd in a group has achieved nothing more or nothing less than other teams who finished 2nd. It should be an open draw.

Spare a thought for Slovenia, a FIFTH seeded team who have performed magnificently to quite possibly come 2nd and their hopes will be dashed because of FIFA's need to have France and Germany in the world cup for commerical reasons.

Nothing is about sport anymore. Its all business. I'm disgusted!!

I think you are contradicting yourself a little there. "Spare a thought for Slovenia" sure but if all the groups are of equal standing why should it matter to Slovenia who they play. It's not as if France or Germany are getting a free pass - they have to qualify too;

Pisco Sour

greendom wrote: »

I think you are contradicting yourself a little there. "Spare a thought for Slovenia" sure but if all the groups are of equal standing why should it matter to Slovenia who they play. It's not as if France or Germany are getting a free pass - they have to qualify too;

Slovenia have earned the right to have the same opportunity to play any other team as everyone else has. They finish second in their group, France finish second in their group, they have both in effect achieved the same thing and so should be rewarded equally for this (by both having the same chance of playing Germany, Russia or whoever else).

Yep they still have to qualify, but FIFA are making it a great deal easier for them.

greendom

04072511 wrote: »

Slovenia have earned the right to have the same opportunity to play any other team as everyone else has. They finish second in their group, France finish second in their group, they have both in effect achieved the same thing and so should be rewarded equally for this (by both having the same chance of playing Germany, Russia or whoever else).

Yep they still have to qualify, but FIFA are making it a great deal easier for them.

But how are they making it easier for them. All teams finishing 2nd are of equal ability aren't they?

Eire-Dearg

Probably will be seeded as to avoid "big" teams meeting each other. Big loss for FIFA and whoever if France don't go for example.

Pisco Sour

greendom wrote: »

But how are they making it easier for them. All teams finishing 2nd are of equal ability aren't they?

I didnt say equal ability. I said each achievement in coming 2nd is equal to another team coming 2nd and so should get the very same reward. Their should not be a system that helps the big teams in case they fail to make it through automatically!

greendom

04072511 wrote: »

I didnt say equal ability. I said each achievement in coming 2nd is equal to another team coming 2nd and so should get the very same reward. Their should not be a system that helps the big teams in case they fail to make it through automatically!

Of course they're not of equal ability and I don't think it's particularly fair that a weaker team qualifies at the expense of a stronger team - seeding is fair- it rewards a team for recent-past performance.

FIFA have done themselves no favours by appearing to make things up as they go along but they've done the right thing (if they have indeed seeded the qualifiers)

Pisco Sour

greendom wrote: »

Of course they're not of equal ability and I don't think it's particularly fair that a weaker team qualifies at the expense of a stronger team - seeding is fair- it rewards a team for recent-past performance.

FIFA have done themselves no favours by appearing to make things up as they go along but they've done the right thing (if they have indeed seeded the qualifiers)

The only past performances that should matter for playoff seeding are the actual world cup qualifying games themselves, anything else (friendlies, european championships, past world cup) are completely irrelevant when it comes to this world cup campaign.

If FIFA are to seed it should be done based on the number of points gained in the group stages. Teams ranked 1-4 based on this go into one pot and teams 5-8 into another.

greendom

04072511 wrote: »

The only past performances that should matter for playoff seeding are the actual world cup qualifying games themselves, anything else (friendlies, european championships, past world cup) are completely irrelevant when it comes to this world cup campaign.

If FIFA are to seed it should be done based on the number of points gained in the group stages. Teams ranked 1-4 based on this go into one pot and teams 5-8 into another.

No, a team's performance over the last 4 - 6 years is a better judge of their relative worth than 1 qualifying competition of 10 or so matches

LuckyLloyd

GLaDOS

Seems very unfair to me(if it's true), the teams have already been seeded for this comptetion.

Pisco Sour

greendom wrote: »

No, a team's performance over the last 4 - 6 years is a better judge of their relative worth than 1 qualifying competition of 10 or so matches

I disagree. Being good 6 years ago should have no basis on seedings now. This is the 2010 FIFA World Cup! 2010!!! 2004, 2005 etc should have zero basis on this particular competition. New competition, new start for everyone. The groups are seeded, France etc get top seeded draws, if they cant do the business in the group stages they should accept the consequences of possibly getting a tough playoff draw.

greendom

04072511 wrote: »

I disagree. Being good 6 years ago should have no basis on seedings now. This is the 2010 FIFA World Cup! 2010!!! 2004, 2005 etc should have zero basis on this particular competition. New competition, new start for everyone. The groups are seeded, France etc get top seeded draws, if they cant do the business in the group stages they should accept the consequences of possibly getting a tough playoff draw.

But that doesn't make sense. I'm sorry if this appears to be going round in circles but if being good 6 years ago has no basis on the current competition then seeding based on that shouldn't make any difference. Slovenia, (for example) have played much better than France (for example) in the current competition so it shouldn't matter that they have to play them. If it does matter it does prove that seedings based on previous competitions does have value and therefore should be used

Pisco Sour

greendom wrote: »

But that doesn't make sense. I'm sorry if this appears to be going round in circles but if being good 6 years ago has no basis on the current competition then seeding based on that shouldn't make any difference. Slovenia, (for example) have played much better than France (for example) in the current competition so it shouldn't matter that they have to play them. If it does matter it does prove that seedings based on previous competitions does have value and therefore should be used

I dont think we are going to agree here.

France are a far superior side who have underperformed,

Slovenia have overperformed. If Slovenia underperform they come 4th or 5th. Why should one team get rewarded for underperforming by being kept away from another top side who underperformed? While at the same time Slovenia who have done extremely well get no reward whatsoever for their efforts except a tie against France, Portugal or Germany?

It should be an open draw, and they have done this nearly every time in the past, so why should it be any different now.

All teams who come 2nd, should be considered equal based on their finishing positions in their group and consequently all thrown into the one hat for the playoff draw!

dannydiamond

Wow.

greendom

04072511 wrote: »

I dont think we are going to agree here.

France are a far superior side who have underperformed,

Slovenia have overperformed. If Slovenia underperform they come 4th or 5th. Why should one team get rewarded for underperforming by being kept away from another top side who underperformed? While at the same time Slovenia who have done extremely well get no reward whatsoever for their efforts except a tie against France, Portugal or Germany?

It should be an open draw, and they have done this nearly every time in the past, so why should it be any different now.

All teams who come 2nd, should be considered equal based on their finishing positions in their group and consequently all thrown into the one hat for the playoff draw!

I agree about the not agreeing I'm getting a bit dizzy chasing my tail here. Needless to say no-one considers all teams finishing 2nd to be equal. If they did we wouldn't be discussing this.

Mr.Nice Guy

greendom wrote:

Of course they're not of equal ability and I don't think it's particularly fair that a weaker team qualifies at the expense of a stronger team - seeding is fair- it rewards a team for recent-past performance.

FIFA have done themselves no favours by appearing to make things up as they go along but they've done the right thing (if they have indeed seeded the qualifiers)

What a load of nonsense. Using this logic sure they might as well just base qualification solely on the World Rankings and allow the top 32 to enter.

After all, then we'd have no "weaker teams" in at the expense of "a stronger team" right? Bloody hell.

If it's seeded then even the dogs on the street know why. It's so the big boys can get their way just like they do in other areas of the sport.

Seeding gives an unfair and unjust advantage to certain teams as each team in the Play-Offs ought to be looked upon as equals. This kind of system is designed to restrict entry, not to promote diversity, and as such should be regarded as being against the spirit of the competition.

Typical political bullsh*t from FIFA.

briany

Here's another link to the story on ESPN's website. http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=681152&sec=worldcup2010&cc=5739 and http://uk.news.yahoo.com/22/20090929/tts-uk-soccer-world-playoffs-ca02f96.html

keane2097

The argument that teams should be rewarded for recent-past performance by having a seeded draw in the playoffs doesn't hold weight for me.

You're essentially advocating rewarding a team twice in the one competition for the same achievement, while punishing the teams on the flip side of the coin twice as well.

The groups are seeded initially. The likes of France, Portugal, Greece etc were seeded high as a reward for their performances over a number of years. Why should they be rewarded a second time in the same competition for the same achievement when they've failed to capitalise on it in the first instance by winning their groups?

Similarly, a team like Slovenia overcomes all the odds, including the punishment of being seeded fifth due to poor previous performances, to reach the playoffs only to be told they're going to be hit again with another punishment, for the same initial "offense" in the same tournament.

That's entirely unfair imo.

Pisco Sour

keane2097 wrote: »

The argument that teams should be rewarded for recent-past performance by having a seeded draw in the playoffs doesn't hold weight for me.

You're essentially advocating rewarding a team twice in the one competition for the same achievement, while punishing the teams on the flip side of the coin twice as well.

The groups are seeded initially. The likes of France, Portugal, Greece etc were seeded high as a reward for their performances over a number of years. Why should they be rewarded a second time in the same competition for the same achievement when they've failed to capitalise on it in the first instance by winning their groups?

Similarly, a team like Slovenia overcomes all the odds, including the punishment of being seeded fifth due to poor previous performances, to reach the playoffs only to be told they're going to be hit again with another punishment, for the same initial "offense" in the same tournament.

That's entirely unfair imo.

Excellent post