The WC 2010 playoff draw WILL be seeded.

Bandit12

04072511 wrote: »

I dont think we are going to agree here.

France are a far superior side who have underperformed,

Slovenia have overperformed. If Slovenia underperform they come 4th or 5th. Why should one team get rewarded for underperforming by being kept away from another top side who underperformed? While at the same time Slovenia who have done extremely well get no reward whatsoever for their efforts except a tie against France, Portugal or Germany?

It should be an open draw, and they have done this nearly every time in the past, so why should it be any different now.

All teams who come 2nd, should be considered equal based on their finishing positions in their group and consequently all thrown into the one hat for the playoff draw!

Your right it should be an open draw just like the Champions league should be only for the league winners but since when have FIFA or any footballing organisation for that matter put what's right in front of the pursuit of more and more money?

cournioni

There are no easy games in the qualifying stages. If Ireland want to make it to the world cup, they have to earn it. Just like everyone else. If that means beating a seeded team, then so be it.

Kinetic^

From RTE.ie

The Republic of Ireland will face a daunting World Cup play-off clash against one of Europe's top teams after FIFA made a dramatic u-turn and confirmed they will use a seeding system for the European play-offs.

FIFA originally planned to host an open draw for the eight best runners-up in the nine European groups, but with the likes of Germany, France and Portugal all in danger of securing a play-off spot, at best, FIFA have decided to employ a seeding system.

That would certainly leave Giovanni Trapattoni's men, currently ranked 38th, in the second tier should they secure second spot in Group 8, with Russia, Croatia, Greece and Serbia also potential opponents this November.

Irish fans would have been hoping for a kind draw against the likes of Slovenia, Northern Ireland, Bosnia or Slovakia, but that possibility now seems unlikely if FIFA stick to their guns.

It is believed the prospect of a World Cup tournament without commercial heavyweights Germany prompted the u-turn.

However, FAI Chief Executive John Delaney remains optimistic about Ireland's chances in spite of the revised seeding system.

Speaking in today's Irish Daily Mail, Delaney insisted: 'I'm not too sure where that [seeded draw] will place us but we've got concentrate first on what we've got to do.

'We've got to try and beat Italy and take it to the last game. And if we end up in the play-offs, we'd have been delighted to have got to the play-offs at the start of the group and we'll take what we get.'

He added: 'All I will say is that and team who finishes second mustn't have been top team in their group, obviously. So it gives you a chance.'

Trap better get his head out of his arse and give Andy Reid a call up because whelan is getting destroyed against medicore opposition as it is, if he goes up against any of those we may as well play with 10 men.

The Rooster

It would be a massive surprise to me if the draw was not seeded. They seeded the draw for the last World Cup playoffs, so I don't see why they'd change that practice now.

noodler

Absolute disgrace.

You can't see how the groups pan out before introducing this bull**** rule.

We are being absolutely screwed here - play-offs are suppossed to be luck of the draw.

To hear Delaney accept this (RTE.IE) without any fight or criticism whatsoever is very disheartening.

dubmick

It's a disgrace.

Only fair way apart from an open draw is for the best qualifier to play against the 8th best, 2nd v 7th..etc

Pisco Sour

Lads theres a "Sepp Blatter must resign Petition" going on facebook. Get signing!!!!

The Sparrow

This is a sham.:mad:

kenco

Its a joke but no real surprise. The minute it looked like some of the big teams were going to be in the playoffs this became a reality. They will do what ever it takes to give France, Portual and Germany/Russia they best chance of getting to the Finals. Would not surprise me if the top seed also gets to play at home for the second leg which is definately not good news at all for us.

Lets wait and see what happens but this just proves where we and the Slovenias, Bosnias, etc are in the pecking order

ArmaniJeanss

Why the hell are ye all surprised? It was about 99% certain all along that they were going to seed the draw.
They did it for the last World Cup in 2006 and I don't remember one comment here complaining about it.
But now that Ireland might be affected suddenly 'its a disgrace', and 'Blatter must go'. (despite this ultimately being a UEFA call anyway).

Embarassing yourselves to be honest.

ShooterSF

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Why the hell are ye all surprised? It was about 99% certain all along that they were going to seed the draw.
They did it for the last World Cup in 2006 and I don't remember one comment here complaining about it.
But now that Ireland might be affected suddenly 'its a disgrace', and 'Blatter must go'. (despite this ultimately being a UEFA call anyway).

Embarassing yourselves to be honest.

I didn't really post on boards 4 years ago. I thought it was crap back then too if it helps. Should we seed the whole tournament so? Seed the group stages then after that seed the last 16, seed the last 8, last 4. That way we can almost be sure of a top team reaching the final.

Kinetic^

04072511 wrote: »

Lads theres a "Sepp Blatter must resign Petition" going on facebook. Get signing!!!!

The Sparrow wrote: »

This is a sham.:mad:

Harsh but fair.

me-skywalker

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Why the hell are ye all surprised? It was about 99% certain all along that they were going to seed the draw.
They did it for the last World Cup in 2006 and I don't remember one comment here complaining about it.
But now that Ireland might be affected suddenly 'its a disgrace', and 'Blatter must go'. (despite this ultimately being a UEFA call anyway).

Embarassing yourselves to be honest.

Your an embarasment to this thread! This is not a UEFA call you narrow minded person. This is a FIFA competition remember?

here is a link everyone should check its a Adobe .pdf file

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/tournament/competition/2010%5ffwc%5fqualification%5fformat%5feurope%5fen%5f17180.pdf

basically: PRELIMINARY COMPETITION
ROUND ONE
All 53 PMAs will contest Round One.
The round consists of 8, round robin, home-and-away groups of 6 teams as well as 1 round robin, homeand-
away group of 5 teams.
The 8 best group runners-up advance to Round Two.
The group winners qualify for the FIFA World CupTM.
ROUND TWO
The 8 best Round One group runners-up will contest Round Two.
The teams will be paired into 4 home-and-away series.
The winners qualify for the FIFA World CupTM.

No mention of seeding the 'Round Two' and leaving it very open to cover themselves. Its a disgrace they are clearly playing a waiting game because they know the strongest teams will still qualify given that extra chance. Imagine France Vrs Germany and Portugal vrs Russia? haha neither can I.

ArmaniJeanss

ShooterSF wrote: »

I didn't really post on boards 4 years ago. I thought it was crap back then too if it helps. Should we seed the whole tournament so? Seed the group stages then after that seed the last 16, seed the last 8, last 4. That way we can almost be sure of a top team reaching the final.

I actually agree that its the wrong decision for the reasons outlined by a few of the more rational posters above, and as an Irish fan I was obviously hoping against hope it wouldn't be seeded so we might potentially get the lowest ranked team.

I just think its embarassing that its come as a shock to people, that there seems to be some belief that they moved the goalposts or 'have changed the rules' when they are following the same rules which they used in 2006.

Or because they never mentioned seeding up to now that somehow its wrong to seed it. Well people, they never mentioned open draw up to now either.

A Facebook petition to get Blatter to resign :eek: - I think I can die happy now because now i understand the concept of comedy gold.

ArmaniJeanss

me-skywalker wrote: »

Your an embarasment to this thread! This is not a UEFA call you narrow minded person. This is a FIFA competition remember?
The 8 best Round One group runners-up will contest Round Two.
The teams will be paired into 4 home-and-away series.
The winners qualify for the FIFA World CupTM.

No mention of seeding the 'Round Two' and leaving it very open to cover themselves. Its a disgrace they are clearly playing a waiting game because they know the strongest teams will still qualify given that extra chance. Imagine France Vrs Germany and Portugal vrs Russia? haha neither can I.

No mention of open draw either, could you not see this coming, did the fact they seeded it in 2006 with the same clause in the rules slip past you.

You may be right about it being a FIFA decision, though I think you are wrong.
I'm almost certain that its UEFA call to do what they want with their 13 allocated slots. Clearly every Conference is doing their own qualification system their own way, so I don't see why FIFA would have any extra say in UEFAs (UEFA for economic powerhouse reasons have always been the most independant of FIFA over the years anyway).

I'll leave ye all to your indignation anyway, have fun.

Fr Tod Umptious

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Embarassing yourselves to be honest.

I agree, calls for the FAI to protests and for Trap to now suddenly call up A. Reid (a few posts ago) are laughable

me-skywalker

04072511 wrote: »

The only past performances that should matter for playoff seeding are the actual world cup qualifying games themselves....

If FIFA are to seed it should be done based on the number of points gained in the group stages. Teams ranked 1-4 based on this go into one pot and teams 5-8 into another.

"We have decided on seeding the teams into two groups of four, taking the FIFA world rankings into account, with the top four in one pot and the others in another pot," Blatter said. The ranking will be that published on Oct. 16"

I cannot udnerstand why the World Rankings would matter? the seedings for the Round 1 groups was based on world rankings but the seedings for the qualifers should be then in turn based on the results in the group itself as its a by-product of these matches that matter. So therefore the friendly lose against Australia and if we lsot to South Africa would have had a relevence on our seeding if we dropped below other teams in the seedings.

Imagine next June..... Slovenia Vrs Honduras.... OR try imagine this France vrs Honduras? how many local South Africas would be interested in seeing the former? how many shirts and ticket sales and food stalls and horns and sirens would be sold.

shane86

Tis bollix, but tbh Id rather draw the directionless, morale sapped French who couldnt give a sh1t under Domenech rather than some fiery newboyswith ambition like Slovakia and Slovenia. Yid nearly wonder if the French would throw the game to get rid of him.

Germany/ Russia and Portugal are the ones toavoid.Beating Greece isnt impossible.

LeeroyJones

Its football so therefore politics play a huge part unfortunatly, it's a disgraceful call by FIFA. Nevertheless it's what we're dealing with and more than likely we'll have to get on with it.

I've a brief glance over the groups and their respective forthcoming fixtures. If I was a betting man I would say the current 2nd placed teams will all still be 2nd come the end of the group stages, barring shock results. I'd say of other teams contesting for 2nd place only Portugal, Latvia and Ukraine have some sort of a decent chance at the expense of Sweden, Greece and Croatia. Portugal have easier fixtures but Sweden seem to have done just enough to get over the line in Group 1, Latvia and Greece are neck and neck but Greece have the more favourable run-in firstly at home to rivals Latvia and then at home to Luxembourg, and in Group 6 Ukraine are 2 points adrift with a game in hand at home against an already qualified England.

Again, however, if I was to look into a crystal ball I would say the 2nd placed teams will be as they are now, so with FIFA ranking in brackets:

Russia (6th)
Croatia (9th)-perhaps Ukraine(25th)
France (10th)
Greece (12th)-perhaps Latvia(58th)
Rep of Ireland (38th)
Sweden (41st)-perhaps Portugal(17th)
Norway (43rd)-more than likely to miss out on playoffs as worst placed 2nd
Bosnia (46th)
Slovenia (54th)

interesting to note that, if I'm not mistaken, should Latvia pip Greece and the rest remain the same-are we in Top Seeds??!!

Unearthly

shane86 wrote: »

Tis bollix, but tbh Id rather draw the directionless, morale sapped French who couldnt give a sh1t under Domenech rather than some fiery newboyswith ambition like Slovakia and Slovenia. Yid nearly wonder if the French would throw the game to get rid of him.

.

Not sure about that. Great players which France have usually come up with the goods eventually. Henry for example killed us in 2005 with a piece of magic after them playing crap for the most part of 2 games v us.

briany

I didn't know the draw was seeded in 2006 as I, like most other people here sort of lost interest after Ireland failed to qualify. However, had I known, I would've been against it. Is that what it's come to now? FIFA trying their utmost to get the top teams to the finals just so they can make more money? I don't care if a seeded draw was a likelyhood from the start, it is in no way fair! If the top teams are the top teams then they should be qualifying top and if they can't then an open draw it should be.

Fr Tod Umptious

shane86 wrote: »

Beating Greece isnt impossible.

And on a side note Greece is the only one of the old European (i.e. excluding former Yug, USSR etc) that we have never played in a competitive games

gosplan

While I'll be shattered if we don't make the world cup, it's hard to have too many complaints about this.

We got a lucky enough draw in the qualifiers with Bulgaria performing way below their capabilities these days and then we got some lucky enough draws (:D) which shoud see us take runner up spot.

We haven't really been called on to prove we're one of the best teams in Europe which is what the whole thing is about.

As it stands this Irish team is Ok and they have put themselves in a decent enough position to qualify for the finals. We still haven't really shown the world anything though and I think that's a bit of a prerequisite to deserving a place in the world's biggest football competition.

Remember, after the heady days of 2002 we would have been top seeds. Doubt too many people would have been complaining then.

Pisco Sour

Can somebody please answer this for me.

If FIFA are so obsessed about having the big names at the world cup then why of why do they only allocate Europe (by far the strongest qualifiying zone) only 13 spots??

Back in 1986 it was 15 of 24 (62.5%) now its 13 of 32 (40.6%)


Now THERE lies the problem!! If they are obsessed about making sure the biggest names get there then stop giving 6 places to Africa, a continent who regularly only has one of its teams even make it past the group stages!!

ArmaniJeanss

shane86 wrote: »

Tis bollix, but tbh Id rather draw the directionless, morale sapped French who couldnt give a sh1t under Domenech rather than some fiery newboyswith ambition like Slovakia and Slovenia. Yid nearly wonder if the French would throw the game to get rid of him.

Germany/ Russia and Portugal are the ones toavoid.Beating Greece isnt impossible.

In oder to retain a sense of optimism I think what you say about France may apply to Portugal in part as well. I'm not sure how much they are trying under Queiroz at all. I'd almost prefer them to Greece who I think we'd struggle against, those lads always seem committed enough to be able to beat weaker teams (but lacking skill against the better teams, but sadly we aren't one of the better teams).

Lets just all keep the faith that Traps total luckboxing can continue for another few months.

ArmaniJeanss

04072511 wrote: »

Can somebody please answer this for me.

If FIFA are so obsessed about having the big names at the world cup then why of why do they only allocate Europe (by far the strongest qualifiying zone) only 13 spots??

Back in 1986 it was 15 of 24 (62.5%) now its 13 of 32 (40.6%)


Now THERE lies the problem!! If they are obsessed about making sure the biggest names get there then stop giving 6 places to Africa, a continent who regularly only has one of its teams even make it past the group stages!!

I've raised this before, I'd like to see Platini fight UEFAs corner better on this issue.
Despite having less than half the qualifiers in the last 2 World Cups UEFA have had at least half the teams in the Last16, 8, semis and final.
(i.e, UEFA have consistently performed above their allocation).
And yet that allocation has been reduced again.

Whilst Africa has gone from 4 to 5, now 6 despite massively underforming that allocation.

Politics and a 1 vote per country system on certain issue is the cause I suppose.

me-skywalker

LeeroyJones wrote: »

Again, however, if I was to look into a crystal ball I would say the 2nd placed teams will be as they are now, so with FIFA ranking in brackets:

Russia (6th)
Croatia (9th)-perhaps Ukraine(25th)
France (10th)
Greece (12th)-perhaps Latvia(58th)
Rep of Ireland (38th)
Sweden (41st)-perhaps Portugal(17th)
Norway (43rd)-more than likely to miss out on playoffs as worst placed 2nd
Bosnia (46th)
Slovenia (54th)

interesting to note that, if I'm not mistaken, should Latvia pip Greece and the rest remain the same-are we in Top Seeds??!!

Good stuff I had it pretty similarly done out....
1. Sweden or Portugal
2. Greece
3. Slovenia
4. Germany or Russia
5. Bosnia
6. Croatia or Ukraine
7. France
8. Us!!

And with World rankings from 14Oct we wont change places with any of them teams unless we beat Italy and Montegnegro and Ukraine have a shocking result. But yes IF lativa do get in then we are Top Seeded. But it is still the principle of the matter that is being called into question its a sham for the powers and big profile teams.

MagicMarker

Lads, getting ahead of yourselves here, ya have to make the play offs first of all!

Lemlin

It shouldn't matter to be honest. If Ireland are good enough to make the World Cup, they have to be good enough to beat whoever is in front of them.

Switzerland qualified for Euro 2004 ahead of us and went there and got hammered in all three games. Doesn't say alot for us if we'd qualified.

I'd prefer to not go at all than to go and be beaten in all three games.

Dun laoire

Would'nt it be great to be Dutch :pac:

ShooterSF

Lemlin wrote: »

It shouldn't matter to be honest. If Ireland are good enough to make the World Cup, they have to be good enough to beat whoever is in front of them.

Why not apply the same rules to France though?

Krusader

Its an absolute sham, just goes to show that football is not a sport anymore but a business
They might aswell automatically but Germany & France in the finals instead of doing everything in their power to get them through.
Just hope we don't draw either if we make it, because you know which side the Ref is going to favour.

helimachoptor

I'm hoping we get Greece as a good friend of mine is Greek, he doesn't rate their chances at all though.

Drumpot

Disgusted but no surprised . .

I mean its FIFA afterall . .

I just wish they would get rid of those yellow "fair play" flags before games as it simply feels like they are rubbing our noses in the hypocracy of their structure!!

The Rooster

Amazed and the shock and indignation on this thread

You'd swear France and Germany were awarded high world ranking points because they are big or powerful!

stovelid

Thank God. Now I can support England or somebody who might actually win the thing.

briany

Looking at the tables, if we made second I would like to see us get Croatia or Greece. On the other hand, France or Russia? Fuhgedaboudit.......:pac:

me-skywalker

Lemlin wrote: »

I'd prefer to not go at all than to go and be beaten in all three games.

Then your a fool and havnt got a clue about the World Cup.. how old are you?

The Rooster wrote: »

You'd swear France and Germany were awarded high world ranking points because they are big or powerful!

yes and they have already been awarded this by being palced in separate groups and now they are going to be awarded a second time because they couldnt take the first chance they were given.

KevIRL

In other playoff related news FIFA are apparently looking into changing the rules to ensure Argentina get into the finals even if they dont qualify via the traditional route - The reason given is that they have won the competition so many times. If Argentina dont qualify by right, FIFA are looking at freeing up a place by forcing the last 2 Asian qualifiers to play off against each other for a place in the finals

Headshot

KevIRL wrote: »

In other playoff related news FIFA are apparently looking into changing the rules to ensure Argentina get into the finals even if they dont qualify via the traditional route - The reason given is that they have won the competition so many times. If Argentina dont qualify by right, FIFA are looking at freeing up a place by forcing the last 2 Asian qualifiers to play off against each other for a place in the finals

****ing joke

they have the easies qualification process and now they could get a free ticket

pure and simple joke if it's true

Pisco Sour

Headshot wrote: »

****ing joke

they have the easies qualification process and now they could get a free ticket

pure and simple joke if it's true

Ah here, he's obviously taking the p1ss. Its a sly dig at FIFA's money grabbing corrupt tactics.

Did you hear they took the word "Gullible" out of the English dictionary?

Headshot

04072511 wrote: »

Ah here, he's obviously taking the p1ss. Its a sly dig at FIFA's money grabbing corrupt tactics.

Did you hear they took the word "Gullible" out of the English dictionary?

this is fifa we're talking about

one of the most corrupt organisations around imo

anything is possible

Pisco Sour

Headshot wrote: »

this is fifa we're talking about

one of the most corrupt organisations around imo

anything is possible

That I will agree with

super_furry

Hang on lads, this isn't news. The 2006 Europan Qualification play-offs were seeded - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%28UEFA_play-off%29

Just because it's a bitch for us, doesn't mean it's some giant conspiracy.

Drumpot

super_furry wrote: »

Hang on lads, this isn't news. The 2006 Europan Qualification play-offs were seeded - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_FIFA_World_Cup_qualification_%28UEFA_play-off%29

Just because it's a bitch for us, doesn't mean it's some giant conspiracy.

It is news because FIFA waited until one month before the playoffs to decide what to do. You should decide before a tournament on the seeding procedure, then theres no what ifs, buts or maybes.

They waited to see what way was the best to prevent the bigger teams to avoid each other. . Its a commercial decision. At least if Portugal and Russia/France dont play each other, there is a better chance for all them to qualify.

If you really think its FIFA just seeding out of "fairness" then Im sorry for you.

And anyways seeding playoffs after seeding a group qualifier, is basically trying to assist the "bigger" teams anyway you look at it. .

super_furry

Why would they announce it, if there's already a standard procedure in place? You don't see the FAI announce before each FA Cup draw that it'll be an open draw.

Pisco Sour

super_furry wrote: »

Why would they announce it, if there's already a standard procedure in place? You don't see the FAI announce before each FA Cup draw that it'll be an open draw.

It's not a standard procedure. In 1998, 2000 and 2002, each time we were in the playoffs we were placed in an open pot.

briany

Good point. Why would they wait a month before the playoffs to decide on how they should be drawn? The fact is that FIFA anticipated this possibilty and waited so they could see the class of teams that would be making the playoffs. The hilarious thing is that, as has been pointed out, Ireland could end up in the top tier of the playoff draw and we'd probably be all loving the fact that the draw was seeded albeit secretly.

jacool

Just in case you are wondering over seedings, and it hasn't been mentioned here before, the seedings will be based on positions after the October games have been played! Current seedings are as follows, putting us in the second pot, unless Sweden can hold off the Portuguese, and the Czechs don't win their last two. If they do, I think they are our best option and then France. I just don't think we do this two-legged thing well.
6 Russia 1129
9 Croatia 1101
10 France 1040
16 Denmark 892
17 Portugal 880
18 Czech Republic 870
31 Northern Ireland 795
38 Republic of Ireland 743
41 Sweden 723
45 Slovakia 687
46 Bosnia-Herzegovina 682
54 Slovenia 576
58 Latvia 555

Pisco Sour

briany wrote: »

Good point. Why would they wait a month before the playoffs to decide on how they should be drawn? The fact is that FIFA anticipated this possibilty and waited so they could see the class of teams that would be making the playoffs. The hilarious thing is that, as has been pointed out, Ireland could end up in the top tier of the playoff draw and we'd probably be all loving the fact that the draw was seeded albeit secretly.

If that happens so be it, but it doesnt change my opinions on this. Its the principals of it. It should be an open draw, simple as.