Thread closed and unfair warning given

opinion guy

I'd like to appeal this warning and thread closure.

Thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055694888
Warned Post:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62308643&postcount=12

I received a warning for "Breach of the Peace" but have not been given any explanation as to what I said the breacehed the peace. I checked the dental forum rules and cannot see that my post has broken them.

This was a genuine thread. In fact my reason for posting this thread was that I was considering taking the issue up with my dentist, but wanted to get an idea first what dentists consider normal practice. I was greeted with wisecracks about lucozade and beer. I have not been abusive and have stuck to discussing my concerns. I believe I am entitled to an opinion on the issue and it hardly seems fair that I was slapped with a warning and thread closure over a difference of opinion.

The thread was closed for the following reason

I'm closing this thread for now, because I've paid my dues with five years of study and several years of clinical experience in this regard. I don't feel the need to be lectured by someone with no apparent qualifications or experience.

I did not question the study or experience of the other posters (also the mods). I did not lecture. I was merely emphasising a safe prescribing point as in my OWN experience I was prescribed something I should not have been by someone with qualifications and experience. I then received a ban for supposed "Breach of the Peace" without saying how exactly I broke the peace. Quite frankly I raised what I felt was an important point that wasn't been taken seriously by the other posters who then seemed to gang up on me and close the thread when I continued the discussion.


I'm not interested in furthering the discussion as I have made the point I wanted to make, however I would request that the warning is removed, and that the thread is reopened so that other qualified people might comment

Big_G

No, I'm sorry. Both Fitzgeme and I agree on this. Dental Issues is not a place for you to continue dentist bashing, opinion guy/quacksalber. You've already had 3 qualified people (myself, davo10 and fitzgeme) commenting on the thread and you've managed to insult us all with your high and mighty opinionating. Just because we don't agree with you.

So thread closed, and fitzgeme and I are considering a permanent ban for you for multiple accounts and dentist bashing.

tbh

I'm willing to deal with this issue in an honest and straightforward manner if you are.

So, before we begin, can you please let me know if you have any connection to the user Quacksalber?

Before you answer, I'd just like to remind you that we can find out anyway, and you must understand, there's a reason we're asking if there's a link between you and this user, we didn't just pluck an account out of the air.

I don't necessarily have a problem if the two accounts are linked, but this issue can go one of three ways:

1. you say there's no link, and the admins tell me there's no link

2. You say there's no link and the admins tell me there is a link.

3. You say there's a link.

I just want to know if there's a link because it establishes context. I'm not necessarily going to say "ah well" if you tell me you own both accounts.

So, the balls in your court.

opinion guy

Hi tbh,

Yes I own both accounts. If I might explain how this came about. i originally joined boards because I wished to discuss the issue of dental amalgam. I chose the name 'quacksalber' specifically because it has meaning within the sphere of mercury toxicology and the amalgam debate in order to give a clue to those involved that I had some knowledge on the topic.

However when I attempted to debate the issue I received a ban - u can review the posts if you wish. I made a complaint to the helpdesk which was rejected. I used the username for a little while longer but largely the whole experience made me not want to use boards at all anymore as being a complete noob, I assumed this was representative of boards moderation as a whole.


However eventually I got drawn back in thru the personal issues forum as I found it interesting and the moderation to be fair. I decided to use a new username as I didn't want the bad karma following me (I was unaware that using 2 usernames was against the rules in anyway - is it ?). So I have been happily posting away over there for a while now.


Recently I posted under the quacksalber name on the dental forums once more because a thread relevant to amalgams arose - a topic i wanted to discuss but given my previous experience wished to keep separated from my opinion_guy username. That post is here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=62291173#post62291173

As you can see I was polite and asking permission to discuss the topic. I encourage you please review any of my quacksalber posts and interactions with the Dental Issues and judge for yourself (I don't wish ti complicate the current issue, but I did not feel my treatment the first time around was fair either).



With regards to the my opinion_guy post. I can assure you post is genuine. Now I could scan in my xray or prescription as proof, but I have privacy concerns for myself and my dentist and wouldn't do that.

A point I feel I must make, the moderators are making a big deal over the fact that they are qualified and experienced. Now I could respond in kind to this but this is a game I refuse to engage with as I value my own privacy. In any case this is an internet forum - I could easily claim to be Professor of Very Complicated Medicine at Brainsville University for Geniuses and equally so we only have the mod's word for it as to their own experience. I don't see that - 'we are experienced clinicians and you have insulted us' as justification for a either a warning or a ban. If I have broken the forum rules then in some way, then fair enough and I would ask the mods to explain that to me so that I don't repeat the offence. But I've reviewed them and I can't see how I have done so. How exactly have I committed a "Breach of the Peace"?

The reason I have asked for the thread to be left open is because I have some of the doctors on biology and medicine to comment (should they choose to). They after all are the ones who have to deal with the complications of these medications.

Feel free to close the quacksalber acount if you feel it is appropriate.


Thank you tbh for your willingness to listen and giving me the opportunity to state my case.

opinion_guy/quacksalber

tbh

ok - you were straight with me, and I promised to be straight with you.

First of all, I'm not a dentist, and I don't have any medical training, ok, so I can't comment on the validity of what you are saying in either account.

Secondly, duplicate accounts are allowed, except when they are used to circumvent a ban. I accept your story above, and I think for the moment we can put that to one side - however, the fact that you were using a second account does have relevance in this issue, and I'll come back to that in a bit.

So, wrt the amalgam/mercury issue.

The nature of the the dental issues forum is generally the public asking questions, and the dentists answering them. We have two dentists moderating the forum, because when it comes to technical issues, they know best. So, that's the way the forum is set up, and it's worked very well up to now. We appreciate them giving their time for free, and being so helpful.

I read through your posts from the QuackSalber (oh yeah - quicksilver - I just got that!) account.
As I say, I don't really have any knowledge in the field, however it's quite clear from the tone of your posts that you are not looking to engage in discussion in order for you to make up your mind on this issue - what I mean by that is that you have already got an opinion on this issue (mercury is dangerous), and are looking to challenge others, would that be fair enough?

There's nothing inherently wrong with that btw, but it's very different from going into a forum and saying "Guys, I hear that mercury is dangerous, does anyone know anything about it?"

What you are doing is challenging the value of the knowledge of the dentists who mod the forum. You are, in effect, telling them that they have spent the majority of their professional lives endangering (albeit unwittingly) the health of their patients. I can understand why they would take umbrage at this.

Again, I'm not passing comment on the validity or not of your claims, I'm merely trying to explain my interpretation of events that led to this helpdesk thread, ok?

So, you've established yourself in their eyes as a potential troublemaker, rightly or wrongly, and they banned you from the forum. That was before my time, but being honest with you, I wouldn't really have a problem with that - the main focus of the forum is helping as many people as possible with Dental Issues, the two mods are the best people to do that, and if they feel that removing Quacksalber helps them to do that, I'm ok with that.

When you came back under a second account, and it was discovered there was a match between the two accounts, it was perfectly understandable that the mods would suspect you of having a hidden, anti-dentist agenda. You may say that you are just looking for the truth, and I can respect that. However, I'm sure you can see things from the mods point of view as well.

In effect, it wouldn't matter what question you asked, because they knew who you were, and they knew the history, so it's natural they'd be suspicious of your motives.

So. Here's the compromise I would suggest to you and the DI mods.

First of all, please don't post any more threads about amalgam/mercury in the dental issues forum. I don't want to restrict your freedom of expression on boards, I want to keep everyone happy, and that means no-one gets exactly what they want.

If you would like to discuss the amalgam issues, I would suggest you use the bio/med forum itself, or the expand your horizons forum, which was created specifically for this type of issue. I would ask that you be as open minded as possible in discussing this issue, and link to peer-reviewed journals where you can.
This is the standard we expect in the sci forum, and it's for everyones benefit.
If you are not looking to preach, and are looking to tease out the issues, you must accept that there's a possibility you may be wrong

Secondly, I will ask the dental mods to re-open the thread (if you wish) and allow it to continue. However, there needs to be mutual respect here.
I will ask them not to comment on the thread unless they can offer an explanation of how they would interpret your dentists actions, and I would ask you to either accept their interpretation, or not, but not try to paint them into a corner.

I obviously don't know you, but it does seem to me, from the two topics you've posted, that you have a bit of an axe to grind against dentists.

I don't really care if you do or not, but If you don't, you might want to think about how you phrase your posts. Some of them, frankly, read like you are trying to trick the dentists into admitting you are right. If that's what you are trying to do, it's disingeniousness, if not, you need to be more open about your motives for posting.

I also accept that some of your - shall we say - bitchier posts were in direct reaction to comments that were made to you.

In summary - sorry this is so long - this issue escalated as a result of apparent mistrust and hidden agendas on both sides.

If you would really like to get an answer to your opinion_guy question, I'll ask them to re-open the thread, but if you really want to discuss mercury fillings, it'd be easier for everyone, especially me, if you'd do it in another forum, where it can be discussed less emotively.

fair enough?

opinion guy

Hey, been a busy,

Well basically I don't really want to argue anymore. In a sense I've gotten the answers I was looking for. I wanted to understand the dental perspective of the mercury issues and I guess now I do. As regards the prescribing thing I was merely trying to raise awareness of medications that I feel are taken all too lightly sometimes. I don't feel I expressed myself very clearly in what I was trying to say thou and would like to clarify that on thread if it is reopened.

As regards discussing the dental amalgam issue on another forum I think that is a good idea. And also it would free the dentists from having to both moderate and partake in the discussion simultaneously. I don't think i'll be starting the thread thou - if someone else wants to fair enough and I might contribute if I think I have something to say.


Thanks for your input tbh.
Is that all fair enough ?

tbh

indeed - thanks.

BuffyBot

Excellent