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34,000 public servants want 3.5% pay rise
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Maggie was not deluded. She was just ruthless. And would not be held to ransom by marxist half-wits!..
She was pro-business, and recognised the immeasurable value of entrepeneurs to an economy.
Unfortunately, we are a nation of narrow-minded, self-serving, short-sighted, childish, begrudgers... we hate successful people... we sneer ar the 'rich'...
Why?
I am pro-business and pro entrepeneur. I don't hate successful people and am far from a begrudger. Ireland needs massive change in the political and professional structure of the state and the credibility of those charged to do it is paramount. There has already been a massive Thatcher thread so I will not get into this too much but she lacked a social conscience and was very much a self serving politician who looked after her own, just like FF. We need something new0 -
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very defeatist, lets just keep spending and bankrupt the place?
you seem to think we need to fully close the gap between expenditure and revenue, we do not, this country and generally every other one has borrowed some amount; the problem here now is that the gao is too large and is unsustainable...
...but we do not need to come up with savings of €20 billion to stabilise the situation...the plan agreed with EU is far less than that
You are right, we don't need to save €20billion, we need to reduce it to €10b and grow/trade ourselves out of the last €10b. However unless we start to make serious cuts, which nobody wants/is willing to make, then people will stop loaning us the money to keep us ticking over and the investment into the private sector wouldn't happen as our economy won't be stable enough.0 -
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The only fair way to do it is if EVERYONE takes a hit.
By the bigger earners taking a bigger hit, they are showing how to lead by example. Probably naive, I know.
How is this fair??? On what planet is this fair???
The private sector have taken pay cuts. The private sector have taken 500,000 job losses.
The public sector have taken no job losses, the public sector have taken no pay cuts. The public sector are paid more on average than any other public sector in Europe. So much so the Government cannot afford the bill.
Your version of fair is instead of reducing what the public sector are paid to even a rational european average (we should have the lowest paid PS in Europe because we can least afford it) we should all be taxed.
So no pay reduction in the public sector just more taxes on the private sector to make the public sector feel good.
Why must the private sector pay for a bunch of overpaid unproductive spoilt bunch of leeches that operate completely contrary to their title of servants.
WHY?0 -
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I know its a union strategy to open negotiations, but there shouldnt be any negotiations . .
If a companys in trouble and needs to cut its costs, it tells the unions were to go and makes the changes it needs for the greater good . .
I actually believe that no FF leader in living history has such a fantastic opportunity to reform public finances as Cowan has. . His party are dead men walking anyways and know in the next elections they will be crucified no matter what he does. . He is perfectly placed to lockout the unions and do whats best for the country (not individual self absorbed sections of society).
excellent post!0 -
Maggie was not deluded. She was just ruthless. And would not be held to ransom by marxist half-wits!..
She was pro-business, and recognised the immeasurable value of entrepeneurs to an economy.
Unfortunately, we are a nation of narrow-minded, self-serving, short-sighted, childish, begrudgers... we hate successful people... we sneer ar the 'rich'...
Why?
Maggie successfully brought the indigenous UK manufacturing industry to its knees and gave the UK Canary Wharf - roll on 20 years and look at the mess this has created. Ruthless, but misguided IMO.0 -
Kalashnikov_Kid wrote: »Maggie successfully brought the indigenous UK manufacturing industry to its knees
It was heading that way anyway....look at the UK car industry at the time for example when she came to power ( 1979 as far as I remember )...look at all the strikes / poor productivity/ poor quality etc in the seventies car industry then. Wages were too high for many of the old style traditional manufacting jobs...same as in the US etc.0 -
How is this fair??? On what planet is this fair???
The private sector have taken pay cuts. The private sector have taken 500,000 job losses.
The public sector have taken no job losses, the public sector have taken no pay cuts. The public sector are paid more on average than any other public sector in Europe. So much so the Government cannot afford the bill.
Your version of fair is instead of reducing what the public sector are paid to even a rational european average (we should have the lowest paid PS in Europe because we can least afford it) we should all be taxed.
So no pay reduction in the public sector just more taxes on the private sector to make the public sector feel good.
Why must the private sector pay for a bunch of overpaid unproductive spoilt bunch of leeches that operate completely contrary to their title of servants.
WHY?
I totally agree with you - these unions should just piss off. It's ridiculous - the union heads are such ignorant gob****es. Every time I hear them on the radio talking "oh well the private sector need to take the hit too" - excuse me? Why the f*** should I pay more taxes in my private sector job to fund the overpaid public sector?
What the private sector gets paid is IRRELEVANT to the public sector - it's none of their bloody business. It gets me so mad when they go on that the private sector should share the burden. WTF! Private sector wages pay for the god damn public sector wages - if the private sector were paid more, there would be more money collected in taxes to go into the stupid public service wage fund. UGH! The unions are just so thick and ignorant. Oh and those union heads are on giant salaries as well, they are just paid a lot of money to stir crap and to make this country go bankrupt.
Plus the public sector gets paid way more than private sector - in other countries the public sector gets paid less because they have a guaranteed job! But in Ireland? Nah, let's pay them loads. Oh let's introduce benchmarking to hike all the wages up, but we won't accept benchmarking in the other direction when times are bad. How about public sector gets a huge range of benefits too that private sector workers have to pay for? e.g. pension, income protection, all that sort of stuff.
Oh and this rant doesn't go towards teachers, gardai, firemen, doctors, nurses, etc - those people are key to this country and I believe that they should be paid well - education, keeping crime down, saving lives, etc. As for all these managers for managers for more managers in the HSE, all the unnecessary admin staff, all those people in the "rubber room" who just sit around all day reading a newspaper because they don't actually have a job anymore but can't get let go, cut all their wages. I'm fed up of this stupid idiotic government just sucking up to the unions the whole time. Bring in Michael O Leary as chief sorter-out man for this economy's finances because the two Brians in FF don't have the guts to do so.
And as for those idiots who say they want a 3.5% pay increase - they are deluded. And I'd agree with others who say it's just a ploy to avoid a pay decrease. And as usual the two Brians are not man enough to actually implement a pay decrease and sort out the crap finances of the public sector wage bill. And as for going on strike? Fire them. Or at least stop their wages. We can't have this country being grinded to a halt by stupid unions like it was back in the 80s.0 -
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O'Leary would be bad at this job because you can't run a country like a business.tinkerbell wrote: »Bring in Michael O Leary as chief sorter-out man for this economy's finances because the two Brians in FF don't have the guts to do so.
Bring us in instead, we'll sort it out.
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tinkerbell wrote: »I totally agree with you - these unions should just piss off. It's ridiculous - the union heads are such ignorant gob****es. Every time I hear them on the radio talking "oh well the private sector need to take the hit too" - excuse me? Why the f*** should I pay more taxes in my private sector job to fund the overpaid public sector?
What the private sector gets paid is IRRELEVANT to the public sector - it's none of their bloody business. It gets me so mad when they go on that the private sector should share the burden. WTF! Private sector wages pay for the god damn public sector wages - if the private sector were paid more, there would be more money collected in taxes to go into the stupid public service wage fund. UGH! The unions are just so thick and ignorant. Oh and those union heads are on giant salaries as well, they are just paid a lot of money to stir crap and to make this country go bankrupt.
Plus the public sector gets paid way more than private sector - in other countries the public sector gets paid less because they have a guaranteed job! But in Ireland? Nah, let's pay them loads. Oh let's introduce benchmarking to hike all the wages up, but we won't accept benchmarking in the other direction when times are bad. How about public sector gets a huge range of benefits too that private sector workers have to pay for? e.g. pension, income protection, all that sort of stuff.
Oh and this rant doesn't go towards teachers, gardai, firemen, doctors, nurses, etc - those people are key to this country and I believe that they should be paid well - education, keeping crime down, saving lives, etc. As for all these managers for managers for more managers in the HSE, all the unnecessary admin staff, all those people in the "rubber room" who just sit around all day reading a newspaper because they don't actually have a job anymore but can't get let go, cut all their wages. I'm fed up of this stupid idiotic government just sucking up to the unions the whole time. Bring in Michael O Leary as chief sorter-out man for this economy's finances because the two Brians in FF don't have the guts to do so.
And as for those idiots who say they want a 3.5% pay increase - they are deluded. And I'd agree with others who say it's just a ploy to avoid a pay decrease. And as usual the two Brians are not man enough to actually implement a pay decrease and sort out the crap finances of the public sector wage bill. And as for going on strike? Fire them. Or at least stop their wages. We can't have this country being grinded to a halt by stupid unions like it was back in the 80s.
And why the f**k should the public servants continously have their wages cut? You do realise that not all public servants are well paid. No doubt you were probably one of the ones who said there should never have been benchmarking within the PS. No doubt you are now probably one of the ones who now think there should be reverse benchmarking. Wish you'd make up your bloody mind.
I'm a PS struggling to get by. I work my f**kin ass off and I 'm not on big money by any means. I've to pay a mortgage, bills and get my kids through school like any other private sector worker.
And no, I don't nesscessarily agree with the stance the unions are taking. But where does it stop? When my house is repossessed?
The Government have succeeded in dividing the public and private workers to cover for their own shoddy work. You are one of the gullible people who have fallen for it.0 -
Equally: Why the f**k should so many private sector works continuously have their wages cut?And why the f**k should the public servants continously have their wages cut?
Answer: Their employer can't afford to pay them.
The State is your employer, it can't afford your wage bills so it cuts it.
Now it'd be far better for them to do effective pruning of departments and the many wasters and chaff (I wish this could be done) but that takes too long and the unions would actively fight against that too - this cut is the result of their reluctance for change or to impose proper standards and results over the last few years.
Actually I'm of the mind that the unions are the gullible ones making you think that we don't have very valid rational reasons to seek these cuts (not want them, but need them). The cut to the wage bill is necessary and slashing the bill by a % is the only readily available solution that can be done quickly.The Government have succeeded in dividing the public and private workers to cover for their own shoddy work. You are one of the gullible people who have fallen for it.0 -
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No doubt you were probably one of the ones who said there should never have been benchmarking within the PS. No doubt you are now probably one of the ones who now think there should be reverse benchmarking. Wish you'd make up your bloody mind.
Where is the contradiction in thinking that benchmarking should never have taken place and thinking that reverse benchmarking should now take place? The fact is that it did take place and should be reversed imo.0 -
Equally: Why the f**k should so many private sector works continuously have their wages cut?
Answer: Their employer can't afford to pay them.
The State is your employer, it can't afford your wage bills so it cuts it.
Now it'd be far better for them to do effective pruning of departments and the many wasters and chaff (I wish this could be done) but that takes too long and the unions would actively fight against that too - this cut is the result of their reluctance for change or to impose proper standards and results over the last few years.
Actually I'm of the mind that the unions are the gullible ones making you think that we don't have very valid rational reasons to seek these cuts (not want them, but need them). The cut to the wage bill is necessary and slashing the bill by a % is the only readily available solution that can be done quickly.
No it seems it can't afford to pay me. But it can afford to let Roddy Molloy retire with a big back hander becuase of an assumed threat of legal action. It can afford to pay outrageous expenses to O'Donoghue which is now forgotten about. It can afford to pay vast sums in expenses (tax free)to our TD's of tens of thousands while others can barely pay their mortgage each week.
And all the while it's the ordinary ps worker who bears the brunt of the ire coming from the private sector. Beggars belief.
And yes I agree about the restructuring of the PS. I have no problem with that. It needs to be done, and quick.
BTW I have no affiliation to any Union because I am of the opinion that they have only one interest, which is themselves.0 -
Possibilities wrote: »Where is the contradiction in thinking that benchmarking should never have taken place and thinking that reverse benchmarking should now take place? The fact is that it did take place and should be reversed imo.
Well either the PS should be benchmarked or it shouldn't. Most people claim in shouldn't have been benchmarked when times were good. Now they think it should be when times are bad.
That surely a contradiction.0 -
And why the f**k should the public servants continously have their wages cut? You do realise that not all public servants are well paid. No doubt you were probably one of the ones who said there should never have been benchmarking within the PS. No doubt you are now probably one of the ones who now think there should be reverse benchmarking. Wish you'd make up your bloody mind.
I'm a PS struggling to get by. I work my f**kin ass off and I 'm not on big money by any means. I've to pay a mortgage, bills and get my kids through school like any other private sector worker.
And no, I don't nesscessarily agree with the stance the unions are taking. But where does it stop? When my house is repossessed?
The Government have succeeded in dividing the public and private workers to cover for their own shoddy work. You are one of the gullible people who have fallen for it.
I could go alot further then this, but your post seems to mirror many many ill informed, ill educated public servants that appear to believe that they are owed something from the state & that by saying "others in the P.S. milk the state" , it sort of qualifies why they shouldnt take any of the burden of the recession. .
With all due respect . . .
Why should benchmarking only work when it suits you guys ? . . Never ceases to amaze me when people like you believe you are entitled to not take a hit . . This is the main problem with so many in the public service. They feel they have this entitlement that those in the private sector just cant comprehend. . I personally dont believe people under 30k or so should lose much or any of their pay, but they should not EXPECT anything . .
Let me make this clear . . You are not entitled to anything other then a fair salary for the work you do . . Public servants got pay rises when times were good. They demanded benchmarking and better salaries to "share in the countries prosperity". But the landscape has changed and now they are saying "dont blame us for the collapse" as if thats actually makes any differance whatsoever. Its actually a ridiculous statement to make. . So you want to share in the wealth and have nothing to do with cutbacks when the sht hits the fan. Sounds like having your cake and eating it . .
Im struggling badly financially aswell, but I cant go into my employer and say "come on, I can barely afford my bills" . . .What do you think he will say ? "Ok, well the company cant afford it, but you dont have to take any hit!". This isnt about your or my problems, this is a nationwide problem.
There are hundreds of thousands of us in the private and public sector struggling, but it appears that its those in the public service who seem to believe that their employer should subsidise them through the recession.
Its this attitude that stinks to the core . . Your job is not supposed to cut or increase your salary according to your needs . . I think the division between public v private suits the public servants as much as it suits the government. It means they dont have to actually face up to the harsh reality that private workers are having to deal with daily and they can keep their arguements in the realms of public service sanctuary. Where usual rules do not apply. Strike for pay while the countries facing into its worst economic crisis in its history . . I mean seriously, what world do these people live on!! . .
Oh and dont forget to get your "labour party" voting card ready, they are telling you everything you want to hear (like bertie in the good years) so they will definantly not run the country into the ground for "self interested" groups . . If Cowan sorts out the Unions and the Public servants attitude to entitlements, I will seriously consider this a major success on their part . .
This is yet another reason why the government has to grow a set and tell the Unions and the P.S. that the changes that will happen are non negotiable. They should be told to Take them, or live the knightmare of private workers and have no job security and no guaranteed income.
I ALWAYS ALLOW MYSELF A CHUCKLE (CAUSE IF I DIDNT LAUGH, I WOULD CRY UNCONTROLLABLY) WHEN PUBLIC SERVANTS (FRIENDS OR COLLEAGUES) SAY TO ME OR ON THE RADIO THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY AND THEN THEY BEMOAN THE PENSIONS LEVY AND START LISTING OFF RIDICULOUS REASONS WHY THEY SHOULDNT TAKE ANY PAYCUTS . . . .
Theres only so many times we can all point fingers and blame others for the state of the country. At this stage, it doesnt matter, we all have to pay for it. Pointing fingers only lengthens the inevitable and delays the recovery. I want to see heads HANG (not simply roll) but I understand that we need to get the ship back facing the right way in the meantime.
Lets get things done now and strike on the streets in a year or so, looking for justice, for heads to roll . .0 -
Well either the PS should be benchmarked or it shouldn't. Most people claim in shouldn't have been benchmarked when times were good. Now they think it should be when times are bad.
That surely a contradiction.
Thinking something should never have taken place and thinking that it should now be reversed is not a contradiction.0 -
I could go alot further then this, but your post seems to mirror many many ill informed, ill educated public servants that appear to believe that they are owed something from the state & that by saying "others in the P.S. milk the state" , it sort of qualifies why they shouldnt take any of the burden of the recession. .
With all due respect . . .
Why should benchmarking only work when it suits you guys ? . . Never ceases to amaze me when people like you believe you are entitled to not take a hit . . This is the main problem with so many in the public service. They feel they have this entitlement that those in the private sector just cant comprehend. . I personally dont believe people under 30k or so should lose much or any of their pay, but they should not EXPECT anything . .
Let me make this clear . . You are not entitled to anything other then a fair salary for the work you do . . Public servants got pay rises when times were good. They demanded benchmarking and better salaries to "share in the countries prosperity". But the landscape has changed and now they are saying "dont blame us for the collapse" as if thats actually makes any differance whatsoever. Its actually a ridiculous statement to make. . So you want to share in the wealth and have nothing to do with cutbacks when the sht hits the fan. Sounds like having your cake and eating it . .
Im struggling badly financially aswell, but I cant go into my employer and say "come on, I can barely afford my bills" . . .What do you think he will say ? "Ok, well the company cant afford it, but you dont have to take any hit!". This isnt about your or my problems, this is a nationwide problem.
There are hundreds of thousands of us in the private and public sector struggling, but it appears that its those in the public service who seem to believe that their employer should subsidise them through the recession.
Its this attitude that stinks to the core . . Your job is not supposed to cut or increase your salary according to your needs . . I think the division between public v private suits the public servants as much as it suits the government. It means they dont have to actually face up to the harsh reality that private workers are having to deal with daily and they can keep their arguements in the realms of public service sanctuary. Where usual rules do not apply. Strike for pay while the countries facing into its worst economic crisis in its history . . I mean seriously, what world do these people live on!! . .
Oh and dont forget to get your "labour party" voting card ready, they are telling you everything you want to hear (like bertie in the good years) so they will definantly not run the country into the ground for "self interested" groups . .
This is yet another reason why the government has to grow a set and tell the Unions and the P.S. that the changes that will happen are non negotiable. They should be told to Take them, or live the knightmare of private workers and have no job security and no guaranteed income.
I ALWAYS ALLOW MYSELF A CHUCKLE (CAUSE IF I DIDNT LAUGH, I WOULD CRY UNCONTROLLABLY) WHEN PUBLIC SERVANTS (FRIENDS OR COLLEAGUES) SAY TO ME OR ON THE RADIO THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY AND THEN THEY BEMOAN THE PENSIONS LEVY AND START LISTING OFF RIDICULOUS REASONS WHY THEY SHOULDNT TAKE ANY PAYCUTS . . . .
And which part of me being not affiliated to any Union are you having difficulty understanding?
I didn't reread my post but if my memory serves me correctly I never mentioned that I expect anything from my employer. But what I do expect is fairness and equality throughout the PS and indeed the labour force as a whole.
I don't recall seeing thread after thread after thread about the scandalous prices my builder/electrician/retailer/mechanic etc were charging me in the good times. It seems there was plenty of money flying around and they took advantage at that time. Fair play and all that. I for one didn't benefit much during these times. EVERY worker benefitted from the national wage agreements with the only difference being the benchmarking. I didn't constantly moan about the high prices I was being charged at the time. I had no choice to pay it.
But now it seems that when the private sector is going through a bad time they have no problem bemoaning the fact that the public service has it so good. You and your likes were laughing at us throughout the years for accepting such a miserly wage and now it seems the worm has turned.0 -
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Possibilities wrote: »Thinking something should never have taken place and thinking that it should now be reversed is not a contradiction.
Well thinking that PS workers shouldn't have been benchmarked and now thinking they should is.0 -
And which part of me being not affiliated to any Union are you having difficulty understanding?
I didn't reread my post but if my memory serves me correctly I never mentioned that I expect anything from my employer. But what I do expect is fairness and equality throughout the PS and indeed the labour force as a whole.
I don't recall seeing thread after thread after thread about the scandalous prices my builder/electrician/retailer/mechanic etc were charging me in the good times. It seems there was plenty of money flying around and they took advantage at that time. Fair play and all that. I for one didn't benefit much during these times. EVERY worker benefitted from the national wage agreements with the only difference being the benchmarking. I didn't constantly moan about the high prices I was being charged at the time. I had no choice to pay it.
But now it seems that when the private sector is going through a bad time they have no problem bemoaning the fact that the public service has it so good. You and your likes were laughing at us throughout the years for accepting such a miserly wage and now it seems the worm has turned.
You see . . I am lumping you in the same bracket as a majority of the public servants because you are generalising . .
1 "Why should P.S's have their pay cut"
2 "you think there should be reverse benchmarking"
3 " I didnt benefit during these years"
4 "you and your likes were laughing at us accepting a miserly wage".
Thank you , thank you , thank you. .
You may not even know it but you have simply stated points thats ill educated rhetoric that the unions have actually programmed into the public servants (whether you are with them or not).
1. Why has my wife had to take a 30% paycut and go on short time. Shes a receptionist, not a builder or a banker. I worked in the private sector for 8 years, have a degree, a QFA, A stockbroking diploma and never earned more then 26k per annum. I know many many people who had similar qualifications and never earned much more.
2. Why should benchmarking only be used when it suits the public servants? Whoever benefited from it upwards, cant complain if its done downwards.
3. I didnt benefit during these years either. Neither did hundreds of thousands of private workers.
4. I went for several public service jobs in 2002 at the peak of the celtic tiger. 450 of us went for 10 public service positions. This doesnt represent every job that was available in the public service, but I wasnt laughing when I had to start on a wage of 20k with no job guarantees as opposed to a min starting wage of 25k in the public service .
You need to do some more research if you think that people in the public service were laughed at by a majority of us stuck in lower paid jobs in the private sector . .
A big differance in these discussions is that the vast majority of the under paid (below 25K) in the private sector have no voice and are conveniently forgotten by the public servants when they are banging their pitty drums. . There are hundreds of thousands of us envying those in lowly paid public service jobs . . The problem was these people were too busy worrying about private workers who were earning more then them (which were the minority). Keeping up with the Jones's .
Im sick and tired of reading the same BS and hearing it on the radio from public servants that simply cant properly justify why they shouldnt take the hit like the rest of us . .0 -
And why the f**k should the public servants continously have their wages cut? You do realise that not all public servants are well paid. No doubt you were probably one of the ones who said there should never have been benchmarking within the PS. No doubt you are now probably one of the ones who now think there should be reverse benchmarking. Wish you'd make up your bloody mind.
If you are referring to the pension levy as a wage cut well that's because it's to fund for your pension, it's not actually a pay cut - you are paying for a benefit. So I don't see how this is "continuously" having wages cut.
I never said all public servants were well paid - the public service is inefficient, there are too many people getting paid insane amounts of money and there are loads of people in the public service who shouldn't even be there as there is no work for them to do. The point is that your employer, the state, cannot afford to pay their employees the same amount of money anymore and something has to be done about it.
I actually had no opinion on benchmarking when it originally came in but it was called for by the public service and now the public service is moaning because it's not continuously going upwards in their favour. That's the whole point of benchmarking - it adjusts throughout time, up OR down.
There are many people suffering right now because of mortgages, bills, what not, it's not confined to people in the public sector only. People in the private sector have to just suck it up and deal with it - that's what the public sector has to do as well. You can't go to your employer and say "I'm struggling with my bills, please don't decrease my salary", everybody has had to cut costs. I don't see how those in the public sector think they are above everybody else and that even if their employer can't afford it, they still expect the same salary, especially considering everybody has secure jobs. The public service just expect the government to increase taxes so that the private sector can subsidise the wage bill again which isn't fair.0 -
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Possibilities wrote: »No, no, no, wrong, wrong, wrong. How many times do I have to tell you? The fact is it did take place. You want to have your cake and eat it.
Now this statment above is exactly what how most private sector workers generalise when it comes to the PS.
Please show me where I actually said benchmarking was a good idea. Because by your mentioning 'have your cake and eat it' you seem to think I have alluded to it.0 -
tinkerbell wrote: »If you are referring to the pension levy as a wage cut well that's because it's to fund for your pension, it's not actually a pay cut - you are paying for a benefit. So I don't see how this is "continuously" having wages cut.
Sorry but this drives me mad. The benefit remained the same after the pension levy was introduced, there was no increase, yet people now take fewer € home every month. When money is taken away and you don't get an increased benefit that is a cut. Yes, some of us can get a good pension if we serve 40 years and don't get kicked out after our contracts run out (I currently pay about 15% of my gross pay towards my pension, the final amount will also include the state pension).
Anyway, the call for a pay rise is completely ridiculous. I certainly would have no problem with reverse benchmarking. If it was good enough on the way up, it's good enough on the way down and would serve to put an end to these debates.0 -
tinkerbell wrote: »If you are referring to the pension levy as a wage cut well that's because it's to fund for your pension, it's not actually a pay cut - you are paying for a benefit. So I don't see how this is "continuously" having wages cut.
I never said all public servants were well paid - the public service is inefficient, there are too many people getting paid insane amounts of money and there are loads of people in the public service who shouldn't even be there as there is no work for them to do. The point is that your employer, the state, cannot afford to pay their employees the same amount of money anymore and something has to be done about it.
I actually had no opinion on benchmarking when it originally came in but it was called for by the public service and now the public service is moaning because it's not continuously going upwards in their favour. That's the whole point of benchmarking - it adjusts throughout time, up OR down.
There are many people suffering right now because of mortgages, bills, what not, it's not confined to people in the public sector only. People in the private sector have to just suck it up and deal with it - that's what the public sector has to do as well. You can't go to your employer and say "I'm struggling with my bills, please don't decrease my salary", everybody has had to cut costs. I don't see how those in the public sector think they are above everybody else and that even if their employer can't afford it, they still expect the same salary, especially considering everybody has secure jobs. The public service just expect the government to increase taxes so that the private sector can subsidise the wage bill again which isn't fair.
Jeez will you ever read what I'm writing please. I said I was a person that struggled to get by. I never said anyone else did not. My point was that many of the PS on lower wages are struggling to get by yet you private sector workers seem to think it's ok to constantly cut wages forcing these people to go without.
You all moan yourselves about cutting cut this that and the other but you have no problem with people in the PS on lower wages getting cut. These people have large mortgages anbd have to pay bills too. They are just like you. It's one big moanathon with most private sector workers.0 -
ah dear, we can go on and on trying to talk sense into PS Loolahs (most of them, not all of them!) until we're blue in the face.
Maybe we Private sector workers can escape to the sun for the Winter to avoid watching all these imminent strikes taking place. We could even use our fat bonus's to pay for the trip...! Hold on a sec, I don't get one, and never have... maybe that's one for the boss tomorrow...:rolleyes:0 -
Lets get things done now and strike on the streets in a year or so, looking for justice, for heads to roll . .
Sorry, I'm going to have to go on a bit of related rant whether this is the forum for it or not (I believe this rant has some relevance and merit however)
I honestly don't know about the above, If we wanted the seanie fitzs/ liam carrolls/ john o donoghues / eugene sheehy et als heads to roll surely the time to get on the streets and demand action is when the dirty laundry is being aired not one year after?
Something should be done but waiting a year to get it done seems like a wasted opportunity and a recipe for these people to have squirreled away/secured assets, left country, gotten away with it one way or another etc etc..... strike while the iron is hot should be the motto surely?
I understand that the economy could be considered a more pressing issue but if consequences are not seen to be applied to the high rollers who were playing fast and loose/behaving recklessly then you are always going to have a problem imposing the kind of measures on the middleman, lower earners that will solve the problem. Its only a natural reaction for a group to say if were getting punished why not those guys (who were proportionally more to blame), no matter how childish that is, it is still understandable...
I also dont think it matters if it only yields a small amount of income or actually ends up costing the state money to pursue these people, i believe that the mathematical argument has to be shelved momentarily and some actual meaningful consequences have to be doled out to some of the actual wrongdoers in society (upper level and lower level) before you go about taking from the middle....you might find a greater level of acceptance of pain (from those that still exert some influence over the level of it they take) if people who so richly deserve it actually experience this pain first.
It sickens me to see people who probably least deserve it get it first and I do include private sector workers who have lost their jobs in this category. Its probably very naive of me to say it and a couple of years ago I would have probably laughed at myself for saying it, but just once Id like to see those that deserve to take the hit most take it first, no matter how childish it is I believe its important if you want to see speedier movement on what is necessary.
If you are a bank head on obscene wages who has brought your bank to its knees, prepare to be investigated and walk the perp walk if you are found to have engaged in anything shady just like any other criminal (in fact you are much worse than the low ambition scum I see hanging around my off licence with dole money to burn in one pocket and an 8 ball in the other) If you havent done anything wrong then be prepared for the introduction of legislation to claw back any performance bonuses (massive pensions etc) because clearly you did not perform son.
If you are a huge developer who gambled big then take your medicine and be forced to accept that you are bankrupt and don't make a mockery of our legal system with multiple appeals while you struggle into a vehicle that is going to bail you out by granting you clemency where no one else would have got it etc. You were happy to quote free market ideals on the way up...accept the f#cking consequences on the way down you sickening worm.
If you are a politician on obscene wages prepare for a cut of much more than 10% if you expect people at lower wages to accept similar cuts and do it now....no humming and hawing, a lot of this was your fault you croney encouraging/bribe accepting/wool pulling/snake oil selling/ glib worm tongue nest feathering scumbag of monumental proportions.
if you are a politician who has been found to have acted improperly in any way then prepare to be investigated and fed your own brand of moral high ground forcibly etc
If you are a fas chief who got effectively rewarded for running an organisation into the ground (not spilling the beans) prepare to have your pension severely reduced + years of service taken back
If you are a gombeen politician with a registered interest in 38 properties who was encouraging young couples to buy houses not less than a year ago while spouting the mantra that there "is value out there" then do the decent thing before you are force to resign and do it voluntarily.
If you are a bank shill economist who spent most of your time cheer leading the boom while causing long term misery for thousands then prepare to be lambasted in the media and look forward to a warm berth in the seventh circle of hell...dan mclaughlin on a cocktail stick with some pineapple anyone?
if you are a person receiving social welfare (long term, not those recently unemployed or who have paid in or those who have a legitimate right to social welfare payments elderly/disabled etc) who doesnt want to work and wont try to find a job but prefer to lie up on the states charity while behaving in some of the most antisocial ways possible then prepare to have the payment halved every couple of years you show no sign of actually doing something except trying your hardest to be a pain in the hole or else be forced to some sort of community service for the payment if you really are unemployable. While you are dong this service you will not be allowed wear a f#ckin hoodie and slouch around while muttering about paddy power not offering good enough odds.
etc and so on and so forth
If even any one thing on this list was being tackled before or in tandem with working peoples wages being reduced (overpaid or not) then I for one think that cuts would be easier to implement.....
Its a principle of fairness and equality that if two people are caught committing a similar crime in a country they should get a similar punishment....
by that token if if a public sector worker is overpaid by 25% (i don't believe they all are overpaid by this much at all but that's a subject for another post) and under performing grossly then they really should be entitled to early retirement, 4 years notional service added to their pension (despite not working them) and allowed to "resign" after all that's what Roddy got etc etc
tackle the other s#it as well, no fobbing off, no we will deal with it later, its as much if not more of a problem than 25% overpayment of the public sector and it is standing in the way of those reforms...start calling for that type of sh#t to be cleaned up..if it happens then that's another leg of the argument against wage cuts removed.
Of course its such an interconnected mess its impossible, oh well, I had better start dusting off those welcome to Ireland IMF banners my dad has in a box in the loft from the eighties along with the bangles tapes and hula hoops.0 -
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I would love to have the intelligence to post something like that but seeing as I could be a loolah..etc etc
Great post.0
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