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34,000 public servants want 3.5% pay rise

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    #182
    NOGMaxpower
    Registered Users Posts: 1,022 ✭✭✭NOGMaxpower


    elDiablo79 wrote: »
    Well you should have applied for one then. Your own fault

    ahahaha stupid post just indicates how little you know


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    #183
    akaredtop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭akaredtop


    It is becoming clearer to me everyday that the IMF will come in sometime next year because of the following:

    1. Cowen does'nt have the balls to take on the unions.
    2. Labour said that they will not cut Public expenditure.
    3. Fine Gael will not be strong enough to stand up to Labour in a coalition.


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    #184
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    akaredtop wrote: »
    It is becoming clearer to me everyday that the IMF will come in sometime next year because of the following:

    1. Cowen does'nt have the balls to take on the unions.
    2. Labour said that they will not cut Public expenditure.
    3. Fine Gael will not be strong enough to stand up to Labour in a coalition.

    I think Labour are just ensuring they get the vote and once elected will blame it on FG policies.


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    #185
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    none of this need happen if two things happend , fine gael ditch kenny and enough fianna fail voters when deserting thier own party , put aside history and vote fine gael


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    #186
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    irish_bob wrote: »
    none of this need happen if two things happend , fine gael ditch kenny and enough fianna fail voters when deserting thier own party , put aside history and vote fine gael

    Indeed, the only one with any talent in the Dail is RB... Kenny needs to step aside, and let him lead us...

    He is the only one I would follow!


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    #187
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    optocynic wrote: »
    Indeed, the only one with any talent in the Dail is RB... Kenny needs to step aside, and let him lead us...

    He is the only one I would follow!

    my choice is leo varadakar but my dream choice would of course be ivan yates had he not left politics , yates not only is a right winger and someone who is hard headed , he is also personable and charismatic which is vital in irish politics


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    #188
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    irish_bob wrote: »
    my choice is leo varadakar but my dream choice would of course be ivan yates had he not left politics , yates not only is a right winger and someone who is hard headed , he is also personable and charismatic which is vital in irish politics

    I am a fan of Ivan Yates... but the danger with right-wingers in this country is their religous nutbaggery that comes with the deal..

    For me, the one with the most Gravitas is RB.. I listen to him, and I hear a mind at work...


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    #189
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    optocynic wrote: »
    I am a fan of Ivan Yates... but the danger with right-wingers in this country is their religous nutbaggery that comes with the deal..

    For me, the one with the most Gravitas is RB.. I listen to him, and I hear a mind at work...

    yates is only a right winger economically and whats so great about him is he doesnt come across instantly as being a right winger like michael mcdowell did , as i said earlier , being likable is vital in irish politics


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    #190
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    irish_bob wrote: »
    yates is only a right winger economically and whats so great about him is he doesnt come across instantly as being a right winger like michael mcdowell did , as i said earlier , being likable is vital in irish politics

    Indeed it is... Until I recently pointed out her hypocricy.. my Mother In Law always voted Labour... this is a woman who is in the highest tax bracket.. and hates to see her daughter and I getting screwed each month..

    Yet, with the grip-n-grin politics based on false promises in the nation.. she voted for the 'ahhh-sure-he's-a-nice-fella' guy!!..

    It also shows how no party actually stands for anything... it is always populist (for the most part).. tell 'em what the wanna hear, so we can claim unvouched expenses..

    Politics should never be a popularity contest.. it should be an intellect contest...


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    #191
    Amhran Nua
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,124 ✭✭✭Amhran Nua


    optocynic wrote: »
    Politics should never be a popularity contest.. it should be an intellect contest...
    The standard comeback is that there are experts hired to advise politicians on policy matters - of course then you run into the difficulty of who voted for these experts, and round and round we go... I have faith in none of the political icons or parties, having seen too many of them change their stripes the minute they land themselves a pensionable position.


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    #192
    akaredtop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭akaredtop


    How many million light years is Planet Public Service away from Earth?


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    #193
    mrgaa1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 759 ✭✭✭mrgaa1


    Unfortunately its going to take REAL leadership to get out of this crisis and we don't have the right man at the top. Even today the E Gilmore had to stand up and say what everybody else was thinking.
    The leadership of this country should be ashamed - although I have time for Brian Lenihan who seems sincere. They should all say they are taking a 35% pay cut, removing a lot of their perks or at least the amount that is being paid into pensions etc...., and then basically demand that ALL public servants adhere to whatever is proposed in terms of pay cuts etc.... Its all well and good saying that its not the public workforce that caused the problem but a €20billion hole in public moneys means that this is where the pain kicks in. Remove all the deadwood from their jobs, cut social welfare by 20%, those on longterm social welfare and not registered disabled should be made to do some work for their money. Cut the number of TD's by at least 10%, remove ALL town and county councils and create provincial councils to look after local needs. We are a small, small country with just under 4.5million people. Lets pick a city in the UK, France, Germany etc... and see how its run. Its really not that hard.
    What this country needs is a dictator who will run the country with an iron first - who will say what needs to be said and do what needs to be done. The gravy boat that has taken 99% of this country to new places has gone and its time we cut the deadwood from all places - public,private whatever and get the job done.
    No-one should be rewarded with pay-offs for doing a bad job. Fire people and lets get things done. Enough of the talking - very soon, as another poster has said, the IMF will arrive and they will demand and get whatever they want. By that stage we'll be in a sorry mess. And look, the rest of the world is moving on, getting things done and we procrastinate, and procrastinate, and procrastinate.
    Leaders of this country - its time to deliver. Stand up and be counted or move aside and let others at it. This great country of ours is heading way down the tubes - sort it out fast and our great nation will survive. Don't sort it out and others will come and pick at it and descecrate whats left.:mad:


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    #194
    vinylbomb
    Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭vinylbomb


    optocynic wrote: »
    Politics should never be a popularity contest.. it should be an intellect contest...

    Not quite right. Its a policy contest, closely tied to the characteristics of the elected official - honest, diplomatic, tenacious as positives for example.
    Unfortunately with this being Ireland, this has never really been the case, as witnessed by all the dodgy (Charlie) / charismatic (Bertie) guys who have ended up in the upper echelons.
    More people like Garrett Fitzgerald are sorely need


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    #195
    vinylbomb
    Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭vinylbomb


    mrgaa1 wrote: »
    Cut the number of TD's by at least 10%, remove ALL town and county councils and create provincial councils to look after local needs.
    mrgaa1 wrote: »
    What this country needs is a dictator who will run the country with an iron first
    Ah sure why even bother with the councils at all, once we have a Stalin-esque chappy in place we'll be laughing.
    mrgaa1 wrote: »
    No-one should be rewarded with pay-offs for doing a bad job.

    Agreed, which makes the pay rise claim galling. I still find it unbelievable that PS staff get guaranteed increments with no performance appraisals.
    Surely we are one of the last countries to have such a sweet deal for PS staff?


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    #196
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    optocynic wrote: »
    Without profit.. there are no jobs for people..
    Happy people make the most profit.


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    #197
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    Happy people make the most profit.

    and union workers are never happy :p


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    #198
    dan_d
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,819 ✭✭✭dan_d


    2 words to the PS looking for a pay rise.....dream on.
    Oddly enough mrgaa1 I've been touting the idea of a benevolent dictator for years.Someone who'll whip the country into shape,provide us with a decent public health system and infrastructure, and who will then get lost after about 6-10 year term.
    Obviously...never going to happen!:p


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    #199
    irish_bob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,271 ✭✭✭irish_bob


    optocynic wrote: »
    Indeed it is... Until I recently pointed out her hypocricy.. my Mother In Law always voted Labour... this is a woman who is in the highest tax bracket.. and hates to see her daughter and I getting screwed each month..

    Yet, with the grip-n-grin politics based on false promises in the nation.. she voted for the 'ahhh-sure-he's-a-nice-fella' guy!!..

    It also shows how no party actually stands for anything... it is always populist (for the most part).. tell 'em what the wanna hear, so we can claim unvouched expenses..

    Politics should never be a popularity contest.. it should be an intellect contest...



    your mother in law sounds like a classic champagne socilst , she likes to vote for someone who comes out with the right platitudes about protecting the vulnerable and who doesnt openly praise business or the ability to make money which she views as vulgar and riff raff , by voting this way she can feel warm inside and not guilty but at the same time she doesnt want someone who will go so far as to reduce her quality of lifestyle , beit financially or otherwise so the likes of joe higgins is a NO NO , the green party gets a lot of voters like this too , wealthy lefty vote , usually lives around ranelagh or dun laoighre , wealthy but they dont show it


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    #200
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,853 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    this is how it should be done!

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1006/cocacola.html

    also aer lingus are looking to make 650 redundant...

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1006/aerlingus.html


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    #201
    MrMicra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭MrMicra


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    Give an example of a successful country where that works.

    Surely China must be regarded as a successful country. Or is pulling 10 million people a year out of absolute poverty indicative of failure?


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    #202
    MrMicra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭MrMicra


    Long Onion wrote: »
    At what point does one cease to be an ordinay worker? Is it when you reach a certain level of salary

    It is the point at which you accumulate a consistent surplus such that you are able to create an income for yourself (and your descendants) that is only partially derived from paid work. Some people do this slowly, some quickly but once you've done it you are not an ordinary worker.


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    #203
    MrMicra
    Closed Accounts Posts: 457 ✭✭MrMicra


    deise blue wrote: »
    Nobody seriously believes that a pay decrease of 30% is defensible or achievable and anybody who suggests such a figure just wants to see public sector workers suffer.

    I don't especially want to see public sector workers suffer. I would, however, prefer that their wages and pensions were reduced by 30% than that my taxes were increased by 30%.


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    #204
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    MrMicra wrote: »
    It is the point at which you accumulate a consistent surplus such that you are able to create an income for yourself (and your descendants) that is only partially derived from paid work. Some people do this slowly, some quickly but once you've done it you are not an ordinary worker.

    There's no point trying to define a ridiculous phrase.

    By using your definition, someone who earns 60k and invests 20k of that each year in shares for the future is no longer ordinary (dividend = "create an income..."). But earn 200k and blow it all each year and you are an ordinary worker.


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    #205
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    MrMicra wrote: »
    Surely China must be regarded as a successful country. Or is pulling 10 million people a year out of absolute poverty indicative of failure?
    And locking them up in factories with compulsory birth control. Assuming they wern't killed first when the schools, built by coppupt officials, collapsed.


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    #206
    0ubliette
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,643 ✭✭✭0ubliette


    I love how youre all demanding pay cuts for public servants here without actually realizing that with the pension levy and the tax increase earlier in the year, the average public sector worker has already taken a massive hit to their earnings. A friend who works as a public servant for the past 9 years is now earning less than he was 2 years ago, which is under 30K per year, and other workers in his department are now literally earning less than 100 euro more than they would if they were on the dole.
    So before you go bleating on about they should all live on planet earth and rabble rabble slash their income by 30% rabble rabble, take your head out your arse and realise that not all of them are on 100,000k per year and asking for pay raises


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    #207
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    vinylbomb wrote: »
    Not quite right. Its a policy contest, closely tied to the characteristics of the elected official - honest, diplomatic, tenacious as positives for example.
    Unfortunately with this being Ireland, this has never really been the case, as witnessed by all the dodgy (Charlie) / charismatic (Bertie) guys who have ended up in the upper echelons.
    More people like Garrett Fitzgerald are sorely need

    This I agree with!
    Garrett Fitzgerald was a towering intellect in the Dail...
    Now you can count the smart guys on one hand!

    The rest are populist agenda spounting morons... voted for by an out of touch public...
    Just look at the support 'The Bull O'Donoghue' is getting from Kerry.. "sure, it's just the mean Jackeen meeja pickin' on the Bull"..

    Unfortunatley.. stupid people are allowed to vote too..:D
    (That was a joke... before the Stasi arrive!!!)


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    #208
    mickoneill30
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭mickoneill30


    0ubliette wrote: »
    A friend who works as a public servant for the past 9 years .... and other workers .....

    Have you got any friends in the public sector that have been made redundant? I've a few from the private sector (some from my company and a few friends from elsewhere). I'm sure they would have loved pay cuts instead.
    0ubliette wrote: »
    So before you go bleating on about they should all live on planet earth and rabble rabble slash their income by 30% rabble rabble, take your head out your arse and realise that not all of them are on 100,000k per year and asking for pay raises

    I don't think most people are looking for the lowest end of the earners in the Public Sector to take a 30% pay cut. What a lot of people seem to be having a problem grasping is that the government has to slash huuuuge amounts out of spending. Nobody is going to be unaffected. This means huge redundancies or paycuts are going to happen.


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    #209
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    And locking them up in factories with compulsory birth control. Assuming they wern't killed first when the schools, built by coppupt officials, collapsed.

    From absolute starvation and poverty to a factory with poor conditions sounds like upward movement to me...

    Look down at your feet... where do you think those runners were made?
    (No doubt you will say you are wearing fair-trade hemp based open toe sandals or something... but I bet you have a nice pair of china-made Nike's at home too.. don't be a hypocrite!)


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    #210
    optocynic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 755 ✭✭✭optocynic


    mickoneill30 wrote: »
    Have you got any friends in the public sector that have been made redundant? I've a few from the private sector (some from my company and a few friends from elsewhere). I'm sure they would have loved pay cuts instead.



    I don't think most people are looking for the lowest end of the earners in the Public Sector to take a 30% pay cut. What a lot of people seem to be having a problem grasping is that the government has to slash huuuuge amounts out of spending. Nobody is going to be unaffected. This means huge redundancies or paycuts.

    I'm getting sick of the 'Oh my pay was already cut' sob stories from the PS workers. It was a levy on an enormous pension... be glad you have such a ridiculous pension.. and shut up!!.. It is not a cut.. it is BIK on a HUGE perk!

    It is so simple... the country is broke!
    They are employees of the country (That means the private sector too!).. hence you have to take a cut!

    Shut up whinging about a 7% levy... when people are loosing their jobs in the private sector!.. 165,000 in the last 12 months..
    What kind of hypocritical socialist a55hole unions would claim victimisation on a 7% cut.. when 165,000 have lost their jobs in a year???


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    #211
    jimmmy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,539 ✭✭✭jimmmy


    optocynic wrote: »
    From absolute starvation and poverty to a factory with poor conditions sounds like upward movement to me...

    Look down at your feet... where do you think those runners were made?
    (No doubt you will say you are wearing fair-trade hemp based open toe sandals or something... but I bet you have a nice pair of china-made Nike's at home too.. don't be a hypocrite!)

    Not only that, but much of the 400 million a week our government is borrowing comes from China. Its where America and most of the other western countries owe vast amounts of money to.( as well as Germany, the oil producing nations + Japan ). Wait until the Chinese and their friends will not lend our govt money any more , and want it repaid with interest. At that point those in receipt of the govt cheque may find it bounces.;). No wonder Cowen loves his pints;).


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