Lisbon's Goal: to elect an EU president

pog it

Surely this is one of the main reasons that the Lisbon Treaty has been set up. We are getting a litany of treaties- Mastricht, Nice and now Lisbon and they are all leading to the obvious.

If ratified by all member states a president of the EU will be created and a nice EU Council of ministers which our Taoiseach will be I'm sure, very happy to join. And no wonder FG and Labour want in now. They know there is a high chance that FF will lose the next election and they will gain the extra powers to be gleaned for themselves.

The other issues are all part and parcel yes of this series of treaties which IS leading to a more unified EU government. Clearly these boys (and girls) want more and more power and this is a golden ticket for them. They are probably planning the next treaty.

It is an insult to us to be asked to vote twice- it is 100% undemocratic and if the Irish people vote yes I will be ashamed to be Irish.

Please do not fall for this. We will still be a member of the EU even if we vote No, it does not take that away, so comparisons with Iceland are ridiculous. If you would like Cowen to get this nice seat in the Council and if you would like to see Sarkozy or Barrasso as EU President-- that will be what your Yes vote will achieve. That is their Goal. The rest of us are just pawns.

Daftendirekt

There is no President of the EU, and there won't be after Lisbon.

And there already is a Council of Ministers. I don't know what point you're trying to make here?

Dinner

Eh.. No.

It's not an EU President. Thats a term used by no campaigners to scare people. It's 'President of the European Council' and it already exists. At the moment there is a rotating system in place where the position rotates between the head of each EU country every 6 months.

What Lisbon does is increase the term to 2.5 years (with a 2 term maximum). The European Council will then elect somebody to the position. Currently whoever is President of the Council has to both run the council and their own country. This move will allow an individual to concentrate full time on the runnings of the Council.



I think you still have a bit of reading up to do before Friday.

Tarobot

pog it wrote: »

Surely this is one of the main reasons that the Lisbon Treaty has been set up. We are getting a litany of treaties- Mastricht, Nice and now Lisbon and they are all leading to the obvious.

Oh gosh, yes. The only reason 27 member states have been chasing this reform treaty for 8 years so they can call someone the 'President of the EU'.

pog it wrote: »

If ratified by all member states a president of the EU will be created and a nice EU Council of ministers which our Taoiseach will be I'm sure, very happy to join. And no wonder FG and Labour want in now. They know there is a high chance that FF will lose the next election and they will gain the extra powers to be gleaned for themselves.

What utter, utter nonsense. The position already exists, it will simply be renamed, the length of time in the role extended and the person will not be allowed to hold any executive powers. The person in question is actually a Chairman but French does not have that word, so the word President is used.

pog it wrote: »

It is an insult to us to be asked to vote twice- it is 100% undemocratic and if the Irish people vote yes I will be ashamed to be Irish.

That's funny because I'm Irish, proud to be so and am not insulted to be asked twice. Are you in favour of divorce? If we weren't allowed to vote twice we would still not have divorce in this country.

The rest of your post is paranoid scaremongering, ironically enough.

marco_polo

We already have a President of the European Council and our Taoiseach has a seat on it and has since 1973 so there is nothing new to see here. Another interesting fact is that no further powers have been granted to either the Council or its President in the Lisbon Treaty. If I am mistaken feel free to point out the relevant articles in the treaty that I have missed.

Sarkosy has even held this position once before and looking around there does not seem to have been any devesatating consequences.

pog it

Yes of course they want the President to run Council, that is, EU affairs full time! It's a huge step up and let's face it they have been building up to it.

namloc1980

pog it wrote: »

Yes of course they want the President to run Council, that is, EU affairs full time! It's a huge step up and let's face it they have been building up to it.

Who are 'they'? What is your point exactly??

Dinner

pog it wrote: »

Yes of course they want the President to run Council, that is, EU affairs full time! It's a huge step up and let's face it they have been building up to it.

No, it's not a huge step up. It's a move to make the EU more efficient.

Do you accept that you were wrong about the 'EU President'?

pog it

Wow.

I can see what I am up against here.

So far every one of you who have responded have links to Pro-Lisbon and 'Reasons to vote Yes' in your signatures.

In your signatures.... wow.

Dinner

pog it wrote: »

Wow.

I can see what I am up against here.

So far every one of you who have responded have links to Pro-Lisbon and 'Reasons to vote Yes' in your signatures.

In your signatures.... wow.

I don't. Another incorrect assertion.

BlitzKrieg

and they will gain the extra powers to be gleaned for themselves.

no executive powers, no legaslation power and no vote on any institution (except the same vote everyone of the EU gets to elect an mep).

wow that president sure has alot of powers.


And the council of ministers is just a rename for the council of european union.

They got sick of people getting the european council, council of europe and the council of european union mixed up.

Was a nightmare for the post office I can tell ya.

pog it

Dinner wrote: »

No, it's not a huge step up. It's a move to make the EU more efficient.

Do you accept that you were wrong about the 'EU President'?

Where was I wrong? Lisbon will achieve a proper, as in full time, devoted President for EU affairs.

That is a FIRST.

'More efficient'. So you bought it :rolleyes:

marco_polo

pog it wrote: »

Yes of course they want the President to run Council, that is, EU affairs full time! It's a huge step up and let's face it they have been building up to it.

Of course they would want the President to run the Council, after all it has been working very well for the best part of half a century now.


Oh and what are the new powers that have been gleaned by the way?

pog it

Daftendirkt and Tarobot come on very strong in their signatures re. Say Yes to Lisbon. Forgive me for being overwhelmed and getting the impression that you had it on yours Dinner.

Anyway I am 100% happy with my assessment.

Up to others to make theirs.

Dinner

pog it wrote: »

Where was I wrong? Lisbon will achieve a proper, as in full time, devoted President for EU affairs.

That is a FIRST.

'More efficient'. So you bought it :rolleyes:

You said "A president of the EU will be created" - It's not president of the EU it's President of the European Council and it already exists.

You said "which our Taoiseach will be I'm sure, very happy to join" he's already a member of the European Council along with 26 other Heads.

Tarobot

pog it wrote: »

Anyway I am 100% happy with my assessment.

I don't see how you could be - it's been clearly proven to be incorrect.

marco_polo

pog it wrote: »

Daftendirkt and Tarobot come on very strong in their signatures re. Say Yes to Lisbon. Forgive me for being overwhelmed and getting the impression that you had it on yours Dinner.

Anyway I am 100% happy with my assessment.

Up to others to make theirs.

I am not happy with your explaination as to what the new powers that have been 'gleaned' by the President of the European Council.

BlitzKrieg

Where was I wrong? Lisbon will achieve a proper, as in full time, devoted President for EU affairs.

perhaps you could elaborate what his powers and responsibilities will be then?

namloc1980

pog it wrote: »

Daftendirkt and Tarobot come on very strong in their signatures re. Say Yes to Lisbon. Forgive me for being overwhelmed and getting the impression that you had it on yours Dinner.

Anyway I am 100% happy with my assessment.

Up to others to make theirs.

How can you be 100% happy?? You said that Lisbon will bring in an EU President and an EU Council of Ministers.

No such thing as an 'EU President' in Lisbon and the Council of Ministers has been in existence since the very beginning of the EU back in the 50's!!

Are you sure you're still happy??

BTW I don't have any sigs about pro Lisbon!

View

pog it wrote: »

Where was I wrong? Lisbon will achieve a proper, as in full time, devoted President for EU affairs.

That is a FIRST.

'More efficient'. So you bought it :rolleyes:

It is hardly a first. There already are several Presidents responsible for EU affairs. The President of the European Parliament, the President of the European Commission, the President of the European Court of Justice, the President of the European Court of Auditors...

Having another full-time President isn't going to be all that Earth shattering.

pog it

Tarobot wrote: »

I don't see how you could be - it's been clearly proven to be incorrect.

Tarobot. I have many interests and I post on Boards on a wide range of these interests. I don't post on politics and if you care to do so you will see from my 600+ posts that is the case.

I find it strange that you have joined only this month, you have racked up 70 odd posts already and they are ALL on Lisbon. And your signature is even all about how good a Yes vote is.

I find that highly interesting.

marco_polo

pog it wrote: »

Tarobot. I have many interests and I post on Boards on a wide range of these interests. I don't post on politics and if you care to do so you will see from my 600+ posts that is the case.

I find it strange that you have joined only this month, you have racked up 70 odd posts already and they are ALL on Lisbon. And your signature is even all about how good a Yes vote is.

I find that highly interesting.

Going to answer the questions posed?

Dinner

pog it wrote: »

Tarobot. I have many interests and I post on Boards on a wide range of these interests. I don't post on politics and if you care to do so you will see from my 600+ posts that is the case.

I find it strange that you have joined only this month, you have racked up 70 odd posts already and they are ALL on Lisbon. And your signature is even all about how good a Yes vote is.

I find that highly interesting.

Do you feel like addressing the point or would you rather just go around looking at everybody's join date and post count?

pog it

I have already addressed the comments of the Yes campaigners who are are working their stuff here. Hope you're getting something for it God love ye.

Good luck on Friday

Let's just hope that the majority in this country will have the same sense they had the LAST time we voted No!

Oíche mhaith.

Dinner

pog it wrote: »

I have already addressed the comments of the Yes campaigners who are are working their stuff here. Hope you're getting something for it God love ye.

Good luck on Friday

Let's just hope that the majority in this country will have the same sense they had the LAST time we voted No!

Oíche mhaith.

So you don't feel like addressing the points put to you? Thats fine. Just another hit and run poster who leaves when their points have been disproven.

Oíche mhaith.

namloc1980

pog it wrote: »

I have already addressed the comments of the Yes campaigners who are are working their stuff here. Hope you're getting something for it God love ye.

Good luck on Friday

Let's just hope that the majority in this country will have the same sense they had the LAST time we voted No!

Oíche mhaith.

Typical of the No campaign. All mis-representations and mis-information but when faced with the actual truth of what is in the Treaty they have no answer at all and retreat into the shadows

pog it

Dinner wrote: »

Do you feel like addressing the point or would you rather just go around looking at everybody's join date and post count?

Eh.. join date, post count relative to CONTENT and topic of posts i.e 100% on Lisbon and hacking down on No voters.

That's not going to gain Tarabot any Yes voters, despite what he has claimed in other posts about campaigning for a Yes and successfully persuading at least 20 on his first day out to vote Yes!

namloc1980

pog it wrote: »

Eh.. join date, post count relative to CONTENT and topic of posts i.e 100% on Lisbon and hacking down on No voters.

That's not going to gain Tarabot any Yes voters, despite what he has claimed in other posts about campaigning for a Yes and successfully persuading at least 20 on his first day out to vote Yes!

You clearly have no answer for the points put to you as you realise you were incorrect. Oíche mhaith!

pog it

My last word on this is to address your comments about retreating into the shadows. Eh it's 1.15am-- late enough when you are up at 8am wouldn't you say, but I was studying and pop in to Boards for a break and popped in here for the first time- not involved in any campaigning unlike some people who have replied to my posts.

And I have addressed your points. Lisbon is an escalation of power for the EU President who will be wholly focussed on the running of the EU. That to me = creating a new EU President, tweak as you like about it only going from part-time to full-time, but that is a very meaningful change.

And like I said already, it is the newest in the series of treaties which adds in its load and brings on more centralisation of politics in Europe. Give me any spiel you like, but I'm afraid I won't buy it. I am looking at the BIGGER picture and not going to make the mistake of isolating Lisbon like lot of people are going to do.

marco_polo

pog it wrote: »

Eh.. join date, post count relative to CONTENT and topic of posts i.e 100% on Lisbon and hacking down on No voters.

That's not going to gain Tarabot any Yes voters, despite what he has claimed in other posts about campaigning for a Yes and successfully persuading at least 20 on his first day out to vote Yes!

Thank you and goodnight to you too, this has been a most useful thread in demonstrating the fact that no new position has been created for President of the European Council. And further that there has been no change to the scope of the role with the exception of the length of the term and the mode of appointment.

BlitzKrieg

pog it wrote: »

Eh.. join date, post count relative to CONTENT and topic of posts i.e 100% on Lisbon and hacking down on No voters.

what about me?

lisbon barely makes up 5% of the stuff I have talked about on Boards.


Are you gonna answer my question or are you gonna pretend I am some long term yes campaign shill planted before even the nice treaty with intent of devalueing your post.

What new powers does Lisbon give the President of the European Council?