Ethics question...

Fenster

Due to an unexpected equipment failure, I had to shoot an African wedding in dim light without the aid of a flashgun. Many photos are soft.

Do you think I could get away with presenting the entire wedding in tasteful black and white, in order to cover up any defects?

TelePaul

Do you mean 'can' you or 'should you'? If you could pull it off with B+Ws I'd be mightily impressed.

Fenster

'Can I.' (Isn't Irish morality great? The first question we ask is 'can we get away with this?')

TelePaul

Fenster wrote: »

'Can I.' (Isn't Irish morality great? The first question we ask is 'can we get away with this?')

I think it'd depend on the quality of the B+W. I also think that, irrespective of the quality of the shots, if you preface things by saying "So sorry, but I actually had an equipment failure..." then you'll have a lawsuit to contend with.

Perfect fit

at the end of the day once the photos look good black and white or colour shouldn matter imo

Fenster

Ignore sensor dirt, crop and angle. I will fix those later:

http://www.newworldphotos.net/files/pics/before_after.jpg

Slidinginfinity

B+W is definitely better.
If you have any shots where selective color would work you might consider trying it. Especially on shots of the flowers or the rings on hands shots.

Valentia

The B & W looks good. Fire ahead!

TOT: I noticed this thread title and directly underneath it was the "Trip to the Zoo" thread. Ironic I thought :P

CabanSail

What was the failure that took out all your Flashes?

How many Bodies & Flashes do you take with you for a Wedding?

AnimalRights

Just leg it over to some over seas country....Nigeria perhaps?

Fenster

Slidinginfinity wrote: »

B+W is definitely better.
If you have any shots where selective color would work you might consider trying it. Especially on shots of the flowers or the rings on hands shots.

I was hoping to have some really bright shots in order to try that. I aer fail?

smelltheglove

Would you try maybe a vintage effect on them, where desaturated colour would work well with a bit of noise? Rather than having all black and white, reason saying is I would be kinda disappointed if all my shots were black and white to be honest.

pickarooney

I'd actually be more interested to see the photo reversed, with the boy and man in black and white, to see how much is lost by removing the red ties.

Covey

Would you not just admit the failure and give them the best you can get for free. It's your fault after all !!

Zillah

I'm confused. If the problem is that they are soft and flat, how does black and white help you? Surely you need to sharpen and tweak levels/curves, regardless of whether it is black and white or colour?

daycent

I feel your pain. Couples are rarely happy to have all b&w wedding photos though I would think.

Can any of them be rescued with Noise Ninja or whatever?

Fenster

I feel obliged to warn that these are the best of a bad lot, high ISO helping ruin the IQ:

http://www.newworldphotos.net/blog/elizabeth-ernest/

Dodgykeeper

They dont look great tbh do they?

An earlier poster asked about back up equipment, do you not bring two flashes?

ttcomet

Have you tried noise ninja or dfinefx and sharpener pro on them? You may be able to get rid of the worst of it. But even they wont fix the halos from movement that is on some of the people. You may need to go into photoshop and clone stamp it out. It is going to be slow and a pita.

Do you have some form of professional liability insurance? Just in case they start shouting about lawyers and such.

Buzz Lightyear

Some of the colour shots you'll get away with. A lot of them have ghosting due to overprocessing of a show shutter speed. The ghosting in these is very obvious - around heads, fingers, (img2 - around the trousers, img3 - around the hat, img17 - around the head of the LHS gent, img20 - inside of the fingers and the pen). Simple cloning will resolve this and make your images more acceptable. Img13, amongst others, I would not include. It's just too bad and will make you look like a poor tog as against someone whos gear failed on the day.

Click Clicky

Slidinginfinity wrote: »

If you have any shots where selective color would work you might consider trying it. Especially on shots of the flowers or the rings on hands shots.

Selective colour is the tackiest thing to hit photography since the medium was invented. Don't do it! It should be called Schindler's List Photography.

Slidinginfinity

Click Clicky wrote: »

Selective colour is the tackiest thing to hit photography since the medium was invented. Don't do it! It should be called Schindler's List Photography.

Don't sugar coat it man, tell us what you really think.:D

thefizz

I'm surprised no body has asked if the couple actually want all B&W pics. Surley that is a major consideration?

Ballyman

Oh man. Oh man. Oh man.

They're bad enough alright. To be honest the best thing you could do would be to run away somewhere. Have you had a look at San Fran? Lovely city. Wouldn't have the harsh desert light either.

Surely you have some outdoor stuff that you can fill the album with? 90% outdoor and throw in a few ceremony B&W's for good measure. You could even throw in a free album or something to sweeten the deal. Just tell them it's a goodwill gesture as they were such a nice couple to deal with or something. They'll probably be too happy telling their friends about how kind etc. that you are to notice anything.. You might even get more business out of it!!!!

We've gone from running away to taking on more staff to help you with the windfall of new customers pretty quickly!!

gandalf

What was the brief from the couple? If they are happy with B&W you could be rescued to a degree.

B&W looks alot better on the one you have done there. As someone said have you any outdoor shots at all. Leave those in colour if you do (I assume they don't have motion blur).

Everyone has an off day man.

CH3OH

Did the guy from the limo company get any shots? Maybe you could get a copy from him if he has any?;)

Nisio

Well...

Michael Jackson wrote:

Doesn't matter if they're black and white!

bullpost

Not sure what the norm is but if you try and foist b/w on them and they want some colour pics (which imo they will) then you're in an awkward place. I'd say go to them, tell them you're not happy with image quality on some of the images and that you would advise b/w as an option and also a large refund, or another photo session is another option.

gloobag

If you don't have the ability or the equipment (backups etc. . .) to adapt to these kinds of situations you shouldn't be taking peoples money.

Just my opinion.

Fenster

Something something bandwagon? In fairness, I asked for it.

Click Clicky

I'm baffled by a couple of things here. Why on earth did you bring just one flash to a wedding? Did you not check your images periodically to see what the quality was like?

In my opinion, you should be offering an honest explanation, a full refund, and see what the client wants to do.

I feel for you, I really do, but man you were walking on very thin ice, and unfortunately, the ice broke.

Zillah

Looking at the photos, I'd say you might get away with it, some are pretty bad, but I'd say a non-photographer wouldn't be able to really tell the difference. Don't do all black and white, they'll almost certainly want colour. Choice of bride's maid dresses, the flowers, the extra colours on the tux - if anything you're going to make them suspicious and disappointed.

Also, learn a lesson from this! If you're doing a paid shoot you really need to have back up equipment.

Click Clicky

Well Fenster, have you spoken to the client yet?

Dodgykeeper

Fenster is very quiet, I am expecting to see him featuring in an episode of CSI Vegas!

KarmaGarda

Think I saw him legging it past my office window here in Fulham...

Click Clicky

C'mon Fenster, don't leave us hanging. What happened?

Fenster

The matter was resolved satisfactorily between the client and I.

Dodgykeeper

Fenster wrote: »

The matter was resolved satisfactorily between the client and I.

In fairness Fenster you involved us in this matter with this thread and to fob us off with the above is nonsense, we wanna know what happened

Also you were asked many questions in the thread, why did you have only one flash etc and you didnt answer any of them!

magicbastarder

Perfect fit wrote: »

at the end of the day once the photos look good black and white or colour shouldn matter imo

if someone paid for a wedding shoot and were only told afterwards that they would be getting the images in B&W only, i think they would respond that it does matter. it matters very much.
they would have a reasonable expectation that someone shooting on digital is shooting in colour.

Borderfox

This would be the second "job" that you have encountered with no flash and you seem quite unprepared for it to say the least, a couple of primes wouldnt go astray in your bag in the future and would at least cover the no flash option.

Looking at the pictures some are passable and some look a bit mad, but the public can take a lot of stuff that a Photographer wouldnt pass off on their peers. Lucky man

SBPhoto

I find it very hard to credit that anyone would take on a wedding without a back up of everything.

diamondphoto

Did you not shoot in Raw format. Could they not be pulled through that and adjusted. What software are you using, CS4? If you want to send me an image I might have a go and see what I can pull by keeping them in color. The B&W image looks a better but you need to be careful that you don't induce too much grain.
Drop me an e-mail if you want.

All the best

Fergul

PaulieC

from a business/reputation point of view, the only way I could see this being resolved satisfactorily would be to waive the charge from the wedding and give the client a set of full res images on a DVD, a full set of prints and a bloody massive apology.

Was that how it went down, Fenster?

Dodgykeeper

Fenster,

You are online as I post this, can you please answer some of the questions posed in this thread that you started!

Cheers

Kintarō Hattori

Yep have to agree with everyone else. You came on here asking for help, the least you can do is tell us what happened.

Fenster

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Yep have to agree with everyone else. You came on here asking for help, the least you can do is tell us what happened.

As I said - it was resolved satisfactorily between the client and I. I presented them with the dilemma about image quality, offered them several solutions that included a partial refund, a free photosession and other concessions. I accepted their choice and worked to that end. The details, those I consider a business decision and not up for discussion here, I am sorry.

diamondphoto

I'd agree with Cambo, anything short of a full refund would be unacceptable. I would also offer them, in my case, a free studio session as well as ask them to collect any images taken by other guests and offer to process them as well FOC and print a few off.

What actually happened to the flash gun, why did it fail. Even still a flashgun failure wouldn't mean a loss of images. I shoot weddings with half the time the flash off!

Fergul

Fenster

diamondphoto wrote: »

I'd agree with Cambo, anything short of a full refund would be unacceptable. I would also offer them, in my case, a free studio session as well as ask them to collect any images taken by other guests and offer to process them as well FOC and print a few off.

What actually happened to the flash gun, why did it fail. Even still a flashgun failure wouldn't mean a loss of images. I shoot weddings with half the time the flash off!

Fergul

Seems like an expensive fix. Upsell goes both ways - start small and then work up.

Dodgykeeper

Fenster wrote: »

As I said - it was resolved satisfactorily between the client and I. I presented them with the dilemma, offered them several solutions, accepted their choice and worked to that end. I consider the details to be a business decision and not up for discussion here, I am sorry.

I consider the whole sorry debacle to be a business matter and not one which should be discussed at length on an internet forum, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that the clients if not happy with your service could google you and happen upon this thread and see that you were discussing the unfortunate incident in a seemingly blase manner on an internet forum.

AnCatDubh

ach, have we come to the end on this...... anyone else tired at this stage?

Fenster's given what he wants to give. That mightn't be enough for some people which is fair enough. But, can this either move on if there is more to it or I think it will be time to foreclose the matter.

Covey

Fenster wrote: »

Do you think I could get away with presenting the entire wedding in tasteful black and white, in order to cover up any defects?

TBH you asked, so claiming it's not up for discussion due a business decision is quite frankly garbage.

I was always an advocate of hiring a professional to do a wedding, but you've managed to change my mind. I'd take a P&S before that any day.