Is the Irish Public Service the highest paid in the world ?

jdivision

Darragh29 wrote: »

Here's my question... I've mates who are paramedics, nurses, gardai, social workers, teachers, none of them as far as I know are on 966 Euro a week or anywhere remotely near it. These people tell me they can't afford to go out for a pint on a Saturday night and are struggling to pay their mortgage...

I'd love to sit down and do the maths on this one...

They're lying. my mate's a guard (not at basic grade) and earns E14 less than the figure above and that's before overtime etc. A lot of public servants only talk about their post tax income for some reason.

jimmmy

Darragh29 wrote: »

Here's my question... I've mates who are paramedics, nurses, gardai, social workers, teachers, none of them as far as I know are on 966 Euro a week or anywhere remotely near it. These people tell me they can't afford to go out for a pint on a Saturday night and are struggling to pay their mortgage...

I'd love to sit down and do the maths on this one...

Maybe your mates are very young / newly qualified "paramedics, nurses, gardai, social workers, teachers" ? Average Garda pay is about 1200 per week. I never met one yet who could'nt afford to go out for a pint on a Saturday night. In all fairness, do bear in mind many people , including some "paramedics, nurses, gardai, social workers, teachers" bought property investments / 2rd + 3 rd properties, shares etc etc....and are not letting on to many people....so you do not always know peoples individual circumstances.

dodgyme

jdivision wrote: »

They're lying. my mate's a guard (not at basic grade) and earns E14 less than the figure above and that's before overtime etc. A lot of public servants only talk about their post tax income for some reason.

jdivision I hear you loud and clear. My mate and his wife are both gardai. She explained to me that she never tells her friends how much she earned (for whatever reason, perhaps to eradicate her friends jealously, she never actually explained why) but that the wages are very good with bits of O/T and that last year she pulled in 60+K . She is an office worker in the Gardai (not frontline). They have just bought another house also (along with the two they already own, which were bought in the last 10 years so they are not pre Tiger house prices).

I also was arguing with a teacher here on boards a while back (post was about article saying what average teacher earned) and she kept saying her take home figure rather than being honest and giving her gross salary like anyone else would do? Maybe their unions are telling them what to say to avoid the issues

NewDubliner

jimmmy wrote: »

Now, to get back to the thread point, anyone found a country in the world where the average p.s. wage is higher than in Ireland ?

I presume nobody gets to go home until you get the answer you want?

Tipp Man

Darragh29 wrote: »

Here's my question... I've mates who are paramedics, nurses, gardai, social workers, teachers, none of them as far as I know are on 966 Euro a week or anywhere remotely near it. These people tell me they can't afford to go out for a pint on a Saturday night and are struggling to pay their mortgage...

I'd love to sit down and do the maths on this one...

Well any teacher who is 30 years old (so still relatively young) should be on at least point 8 or 9 on the scale (depending on age, most don't start on point 1 so this is the very minimum) which is 43k to 44.5k, they then get an extra 1,300 for having th Hdip which as far as i'm aware you can't teach without, they get an extra 5,100 for having a hons degree which they all have, (there's an extra 5,100 for having a master but i won't include that), so thats a total of 50,900 for a level 9 which is EUR 978 per week. And they still have 15 points on the scale to increase by and that does not include head of year bonus, head of department bonus, exam supervision and/or marking, yard supervision etc etc etc.

These figures are readily availabe on the ASTI website so i am not making these up.

the reason they can't go down the pub with you is they are living in mansions they can't afford, paid way over the odds for houses they should never have purchased or else the apartment in Bulgaria is vacant and they are paying the mortgage on that as well

They're are no poor teachers in this country let me tell you

halkar

The 10 highest paid politicians in the world:

1. Lee Hsien Loong - Singapore
Salary in dollars - $2.47 million
Salary in local currency - S$3.76 million

2. Donald Tsang Yum-Kuen - Hong Kong

Salary in dollars - $516,000
Salary in local currency - HK$4 million

3. Barack Obama - United States
Salary in dollars - $400,000

4. Brian Cowen - Ireland
Salary in dollars - $341,000
Salary in local currency - €257,000

5. Nicolas Sarkozy - France
Salary in dollars - $318,000
Salary in local currency - €240,000

6. Angela Merkel - Germany
Salary in dollars - $303,000
Salary in local currency - €228,000

7. Gordon Brown - UK
Salary in dollars - $279,000
Salary in local currency - £194,250

8. Stephen Harper - Canada
Salary in dollars - $246,000
Salary in local currency - C$311,000

9. Taro Aso - Japan
Salary in dollars - $243,000
Salary in local currency - Y24 million

10. Kevin Rudd - Australia
Salary in dollars - $229,000
Salary in local currency - A$330,000

Link

nuff said

Darragh29

Tipp Man wrote: »

Well any teacher who is 30 years old (so still relatively young) should be on at least point 8 or 9 on the scale (depending on age, most don't start on point 1 so this is the very minimum) which is 43k to 44.5k, they then get an extra 1,300 for having th Hdip which as far as i'm aware you can't teach without, they get an extra 5,100 for having a hons degree which they all have, (there's an extra 5,100 for having a master but i won't include that), so thats a total of 50,900 for a level 9 which is EUR 978 per week. And they still have 15 points on the scale to increase by and that does not include head of year bonus, head of department bonus, exam supervision and/or marking, yard supervision etc etc etc.

These figures are readily availabe on the ASTI website so i am not making these up.

the reason they can't go down the pub with you is they are living in mansions they can't afford, paid way over the odds for houses they should never have purchased or else the apartment in Bulgaria is vacant and they are paying the mortgage on that as well

They're are no poor teachers in this country let me tell you

I don't know, I've mates who I know for sure have no investment properties and are not living in mansions, they might be living in modest houses in Dublin that they could have paid maybe 350-400K for. Some of these guys work in the public sector and appear to be broke.

Maybe we need to do a proper analysis on this and drill right down into the figures and see where the money is going and see what the story is here...

Tipp Man

Darragh29 wrote: »

Here's my question... I've mates who are paramedics, nurses, gardai, social workers, teachers, none of them as far as I know are on 966 Euro a week or anywhere remotely near it. These people tell me they can't afford to go out for a pint on a Saturday night and are struggling to pay their mortgage...

I'd love to sit down and do the maths on this one...

A quick look at the nurses union website shows that the start of the scale for any standard nurse is 31,875 with 10 yearly increments going up as far as 46,501., so at the age of 32 (roughly) a nurse is earning 895 a week, but wait for it, this does not include any of the supplements that they get some of which are anti social hours from 6-8, a night duty premium, a saturday premium (time and half i think), a sunday premium (double time i think), pubic holiday premium (double time and extra holiday i think). I am not certian on all the premiums but they are not included anyway in the EUR895

My sister who is a nurse says the premiums give anything from 30-50% extra to her normal weekly pay packet and she does'nt go mad on working the nights, weekends etc

As with teachers there are no badly paid nurses in this country

Tipp Man

Darragh29 wrote: »

I don't know, I've mates who I know for sure have no investment properties and are not living in mansions, they might be living in modest houses in Dublin that they could have paid maybe 350-400K for. Some of these guys work in the public sector and appear to be broke.

Maybe we need to do a proper analysis on this and drill right down into the figures and see where the money is going and see what the story is here...

Trust me i am not making up any of these numbers, please check them on the ASTI website and check the INO website for the nurses. all of my figures are facts, and i have not included items such as masters, doctorites etc which they get even more for. i have taken 30-32 year old average joe soap teachers and nurses

People just don't realise exactly how much all these guys (and ladies) are earning. but you have hit the nail on the head without knowing it, they have overpaid for their houses and now the manure is hitting the fan they are in trouble, big trouble

irish_bob

Tipp Man wrote: »

A quick look at the nurses union website shows that the start of the scale for any standard nurse is 31,875 with 10 yearly increments going up as far as 46,501., so at the age of 32 (roughly) a nurse is earning 895 a week, but wait for it, this does not include any of the supplements that they get some of which are anti social hours from 6-8, a night duty premium, a saturday premium (time and half i think), a sunday premium (double time i think), pubic holiday premium (double time and extra holiday i think). I am not certian on all the premiums but they are not included anyway in the EUR895

My sister who is a nurse says the premiums give anything from 30-50% extra to her normal weekly pay packet and she does'nt go mad on working the nights, weekends etc

As with teachers there are no badly paid nurses in this country

nurses are indeed incredibly well paid in this country , i have a cousin in wales who is several grades up the NHS system , he has been a nurse since around 1987 , he earns 33,000 pounds a year , baschically around 10% more than a nurse fresh into her 1st uniform here and as i said many times before , the uk is a richer country than ireland

Tipp Man

Darragh29 wrote: »

they might be living in modest houses in Dublin that they could have paid maybe 350-400K for. Some of these guys work in the public sector and appear to be broke.

I just want to pick up on this line, The fact is that most people shouldn't be paying 400k for a property, with fees, stamp duty, furnishing etc your talking 500k, thats easily written but it is half a million euro, yes HALF A MILLION euro, think about it, that is a serious amount of money to be indebted for and that is the problem, you have teachers, nurses, Gardai etc who have paid these ridiculous sums for property they should never have bought but were living way above their means

if these people are broke it is their own fault for paying too much for a house, NOT because they're wages aren't good enough for the job they do, fact is the majority are earning too much

NewDubliner

Tipp Man wrote: »

paid these ridiculous sums for property they should never have bought but were living way above their means

The banks loaned them money based on their salaries at the time. Now the banks & their private-sector chums are calling for salary cuts.

dodgyme

Tipp Man wrote: »

I just want to pick up on this line, The fact is that most people shouldn't be paying 400k for a property, with fees, stamp duty, furnishing etc your talking 500k, thats easily written but it is half a million euro, yes HALF A MILLION euro, think about it, that is a serious amount of money to be indebted for and that is the problem, you have teachers, nurses, Gardai etc who have paid these ridiculous sums for property they should never have bought but were living way above their means

as did alot of people who are now out of work. The Public Sector have it good by comparison to private sector.

Tipp Man wrote: »

fact is the majority are earning too much

agree but TBF house prices should never have been allowed to go so high and telling people its their fault is abit too much salt for people to deal with perhaps

Tipp Man

NewDubliner wrote: »

The banks loaned them money based on their salaries at the time. Now the banks & their private-sector chums are calling for salary cuts.

You keep harping on about the banks but do you not realise that YOU are responsible for your own finances, nobody forced you to pay a stupid amount for your house, YOU did it of your own free will, so take responsability for your actions

Would you pay 60k for a VW Golf?? Why not??

Tipp Man

dodgyme wrote: »

as did alot of people who are now out of work. The Public Sector have it good by comparison to private sector.

well the public sector have the job security, makes it a lot easier to get out of bed every morning knowing the job is 100% secure

dodgyme wrote: »

agree but TBF house prices should never have been allowed to go so high and telling people its their fault is abit too much salt for people to deal with perhaps

But if its not made abundently clear to them that THEY messed up you will keep getting people like New Dublin on here saying that its the banks fault that he's in debt up to his neck and he can't repay it.

If we are to learn anything from this mess, and by god we need to learn a lot, it surely has to be that everyone is responsible for their own finances and this business of passing the blame to banks, developers, goevernment, the dog, whoever is simply not right. if people don't learn that then in 10-15 years we'll be back to square 1 with people in a mess again. It is paramount that people learn from this, no matter how painful it is for them

ardmacha

i said many times before , the uk is a richer country than ireland

Indeed you have, along with many other repeated statements in lower case. Have you any figures that show that the UK is a richer country than Ireland?

Tipp Man

dodgyme wrote: »

I also was arguing with a teacher here on boards a while back (post was about article saying what average teacher earned) and she kept saying her take home figure rather than being honest and giving her gross salary like anyone else would do? Maybe their unions are telling them what to say to avoid the issues

This is an excellent point, whenever i see a public servant on here talking about their salary it turns out the number is their take home and NOT their gross, a typical ploy to play down exactly how much they are earning, so a girl who is talking about only earning 600 a week and being 350 under the AVERAGE is actually on 40k a year, poor her

NewDubliner

Tipp Man wrote: »

You keep harping on about the banks but do you not realise that YOU are responsible for your own finances, nobody forced you to pay a stupid amount for your house, YOU did it of your own free will, so take responsability for your actions

I trust you're not trying to make a comment on my personal financial position (of which you know nothing whatsoever and it's none of your business).... and when you say 'YOU', you really mean 'everyone except bankers and property developers'.

irish_bob

ardmacha wrote: »

Indeed you have, along with many other repeated statements in lower case. Have you any figures that show that the UK is a richer country than Ireland?

figures dont do much around here as thier usually dismissed as being distorted

is new zealand richer the australia

is austria richer than germany

is portugal richer than spain

ireland doesnt do anything which makes it stand apart as a small country , we are no switzerland , we had a freak of a property bubble which employed one in four in the private sector , our wealth for a brief period was virtual , not permanent , we have no real heavy industry of any kind , we are not rich in natural resources , agriculture still accounts for over 10% of GDP, i could go one but its pretty obvious that we are not as wealthy a country as the uk

caeser

speaking of teachers my wife is a teacher for 5 years since she left college. Her hours are from 9 til 2 (junior infants) she stays everyday til at least 4, comes home eats her dinner and goes directly into preparing work for the next day which may last 4 hours, she is stressed up to the eyeballs with 30 kids and worse still their parents. Question should be about value for money not overpaid. I have sympathy for nurses, gardai and emergency services personnel they go out day to work not knowing whether some crazed lunatic will attack them. In my opinion they are worth every penny of their salary!!:mad:

irish_bob

caeser wrote: »

speaking of teachers my wife is a teacher for 5 years since she left college. Her hours are from 9 til 2 (junior infants) she stays everyday til at least 4, comes home eats her dinner and goes directly into preparing work for the next day which may last 4 hours, she is stressed up to the eyeballs with 30 kids and worse still their parents. Question should be about value for money not overpaid. I have sympathy for nurses, gardai and emergency services personnel they go out day to work not knowing whether some crazed lunatic will attack them. In my opinion they are worth every penny of their salary!!:mad:

a regular citizen has just as much chance of being attacked as a guard , a nurse has more chance of being assaulted , i have witnessed cenile old men raise walking sticks to young fresh faced nurses , luckily , most nurses come from good hardy stock , often rural farming stock

caeser

Exactly old men even assault nurses, see what they have to put up with regardless of their breeding

ParkRunner

I don't get the dissastisfaction with people saying what their take home pay is rather than their gross pay, provided only compulsory deductions are included in the calculation. My net pay would be an alright wage but after all the enforced levies I think it is only fair that that figure should be the one used for comparison sake.

ardmacha

figures dont do much around here as thier usually dismissed as being distorted

This says a lot about the level of discussion here. Figures can be qualified but any debate that is not based on facts is just hot air. Predjudice rather than facts are the stuff of this forum.

is new zealand richer the australia
is portugal richer than spain

Is Singapore richer than Indonesia?
Is Switzerland richer than Italy?
Is Finland richer than Russia?

is austria richer than germany

It is, actually.

For what is is worth the Gross National Income per capita of the Republic of Ireland was $49,590 in 2007. The Gross National Income of the United Kingdom was $45,390. Assuming a 13% decline in the Irish figure and a 6% decline in the UK figure then Ireland is still slightly more prosperous, factor in the substantial decline in Sterling and there is still a significant difference.

irish_bob

ardmacha wrote: »

This says a lot about the level of discussion here. Figures can be qualified but any debate that is not based on facts is just hot air. Predjudice rather than facts are the stuff of this forum.




Is Singapore richer than Indonesia?
Is Switzerland richer than Italy?
Is Finland richer than Russia?



It is, actually.

For what is is worth the Gross National Income per capita of the Republic of Ireland was $49,590 in 2007. The Gross National Income of the United Kingdom was $45,390. Assuming a 13% decline in the Irish figure and a 6% decline in the UK figure then Ireland is still slightly more prosperous, factor in the substantial decline in Sterling and there is still a significant difference.

2007 is a whole other country when it comes to ireland , that was at a time when buying an selling houses was the countrys main national product , as i said earlier , our wealth back then was not real wealth

ardmacha

2007 is a whole other country when it comes to ireland , that was at a time when buying an selling houses was the countrys main national product , as i said earlier , our wealth back then was not real wealth

90% of it was real wealth.

Tipp Man

NewDubliner wrote: »

I trust you're not trying to make a comment on my personal financial position (of which you know nothing whatsoever and it's none of your business).... and when you say 'YOU', you really mean 'everyone except bankers and property developers'.

Look New dubliner i am sick to death of reading every post of yours harping on about banks and developers

I have no idea of your personal financial circumstances, nor do i care

But do you accept and admit that YOU, and everyone else in the country, is personally responsible for YOUR(and theirs) personal finances and that if YOU(or anyone) has over borrowed, bought a house that was too expensive, is in negative equity, can't meet repayments, whatever, then its is YOUR (theirs) responsibility??? PLease answer this clearly and without throwing out your bank/developers garbage

Tipp Man

caeser wrote: »

speaking of teachers my wife is a teacher for 5 years since she left college. Her hours are from 9 til 2 (junior infants) she stays everyday til at least 4, comes home eats her dinner and goes directly into preparing work for the next day which may last 4 hours, she is stressed up to the eyeballs with 30 kids and worse still their parents. Question should be about value for money not overpaid. I have sympathy for nurses, gardai and emergency services personnel they go out day to work not knowing whether some crazed lunatic will attack them. In my opinion they are worth every penny of their salary!!:mad:

Well you would say that considering your wife is contributing what, maybe half your household income.

Just on all this prep work, how can your wife possibly spend up to 6 hours preparing for a class that last 5 hours including breaks, and its junior infants for gods sake not a nuclear physics class so the correcting can't be that difficult, and if she is giving out that much homework maybe she needs to re-assess it and consider how long the kids are spending on it

I have a lot of teacher friends, have lived with quite a few and not for 1 second am i putting up with this how tough they have it rubbish

dodgyme

caeser wrote: »

. Question should be about value for money not overpaid...:

caeser wrote: »

In my opinion they are worth every penny of their salary!!:mad:

They are not value for money if they are overpaid and hence not worth every penny.

irish_bob

Tipp Man wrote: »

Well you would say that considering your wife is contributing what, maybe half your household income.

Just on all this prep work, how can your wife possibly spend up to 6 hours preparing for a class that last 5 hours including breaks, and its junior infants for gods sake not a nuclear physics class so the correcting can't be that difficult, and if she is giving out that much homework maybe she needs to re-assess it and consider how long the kids are spending on it

I have a lot of teacher friends, have lived with quite a few and not for 1 second am i putting up with this how tough they have it rubbish

not that its relevant but i think teachers in rural schools have a much harder gig than guards stationed in rural areas , kids can be every bit as obnoxious in a one horse town as they can in a city where as guards based in ballygobackwards have bugger all to do