Just 55pc of mothers breastfeed newborns

gingerhousewife

beachbabe wrote: »

For the first few weeks, yes, the woman has to do all the feeding, but after that she can express milk and her partner can certainly do the night feeds.

Also, there are plenty of other ways in which a baby needs to be cared for - changing, bathing, winding, etc. These provide ways for Dad to get involved, while also giving Mum a well needed rest.

Azureus

I think breastfeeding is natural, great, good for the baby yada yada, but I dont see why other mothers/the OP think they can criticise women for not making this choice. It is their choice after all.
I know there are many physical benefits to breastfeeding, but formula does just as good a job-I was bottlefed and was never or at least very rarely sick and had a very close bond to my mother. I never asked her why she chose bottle instead of breast, but there is nothing physically wrong with her so I can only assume it was just not what she felt comfortable with (as a stay at home mother I cant imagine it was an inconvenience issue)
I do feel sorry for women who have to put up with criticism for breastfeeding in public in general, but sometimes its just not the time or place to see a woman with her boobs out. Case in point the other day on the train (rush hour, packed!!) and an African lady sat there with literally everything hanging out and baby sucking away. Now im a woman, and a liberal one who certainly does not mind a woman breastfeeding in public, but you cant justify that in my mind. It made me feel very uncomfortable and I didnt know where to look as i was sitting next to her. It wasnt subtle, and the breast was not covered, but I guess this just kinda exemplifies what an earlier poster said; cultural difference and how we are brought up largely determines whether we breastfeed or not/how/where we do so.

Kernel

I'd say a lot of you kids here don't have any children and don't understand how difficult and demanding it can be to breastfeed a child on demand. It's a tough job rearing a baby, and the bottle works just fine.

BostonB

jimmyendless wrote: »

... I am heavily exposed to our situation (obviously) and through her book (maybe 5-10 surveys were sent out, input from loads of mothers) I have heard about many different issues.

What I don't get is why breastfeeding is being portrayed as so hard in this thread??...


....Support is out there though and if you are having trouble there is a good chance woman have been there before and can give practical advice. ....

I find it strange with all your sources you've not heard of people finding it difficult. Because I have only a fraction of all that exposure and yet I've heard of just as many people with problems as those with none. I've also had and heard the experience of people getting poor support aswell. Others have had excellent support.

As a general comment, I have noticed that once people have some experience of kids they seem to think that their experience is the same for everyone else. Which is why they can't understand why other people do things differently. Consider its not the same experience for everyone.

Considering how back in history bottles or similar have been found, its obviously been an issue for quite a while.

pottery nursers have been found that were used as early as 1500 B.C.

http://www.acif.org/past.html

It perhaps preferrable to do as nature as intended if it works out. But then in nature if it didn't work out it wasn't a happy ending.

gingerhousewife

Azureus wrote: »

I think breastfeeding is natural, great, good for the baby yada yada, but I dont see why other mothers/the OP think they can criticise women for not making this choice. It is their choice after all.
I know there are many physical benefits to breastfeeding, but formula does just as good a job-I was bottlefed and was never or at least very rarely sick and had a very close bond to my mother. I never asked her why she chose bottle instead of breast, but there is nothing physically wrong with her so I can only assume it was just not what she felt comfortable with (as a stay at home mother I cant imagine it was an inconvenience issue)
I do feel sorry for women who have to put up with criticism for breastfeeding in public in general, but sometimes its just not the time or place to see a woman with her boobs out. Case in point the other day on the train (rush hour, packed!!) and an African lady sat there with literally everything hanging out and baby sucking away. Now im a woman, and a liberal one who certainly does not mind a woman breastfeeding in public, but you cant justify that in my mind. It made me feel very uncomfortable and I didnt know where to look as i was sitting next to her. It wasnt subtle, and the breast was not covered, but I guess this just kinda exemplifies what an earlier poster said; cultural difference and how we are brought up largely determines whether we breastfeed or not/how/where we do so.

Would you have preferred to listen to a screaming baby on your train journey? Would that have made you feel more comfortable? If you wouldn't think it inappropriate for a mother to bottlefeed her baby at a particular "time and place" why should a breastfeeding mother be made to feel ashamed to feed her baby in the same place, at the same time, when she is doing the best possible thing for her baby?

Thankfully, the law of this land explicitly states that there is not, infact, "a time and a place": http://www.thebreastway.com/index.php/how-to-do-it/breastfeeding-in-public ...soon Irish attitudes will catch up with the law.

Azureus

gingerhousewife wrote: »

Would you have preferred to listen to a screaming baby on your train journey? Would that have made you felt more comfortable?

Thankfully, the law of this land explicitly states that there is not, infact, "a time and a place": http://www.thebreastway.com/index.php/how-to-do-it/breastfeeding-in-public ...soon Irish attitudes will catch up with the law.

Which is exactly why I ended my post with a comment on the cultural differences of what is acceptable. That was in no way implying that the lady was wrong and i was right-I just stated that it made me feel uncomfortable, which it did.

Novella

seamus wrote: »

When a woman CHOOSES to get pregnant, she should accept the things that come along with doing the right thing by the child you've CHOSEN to have.

Not every woman CHOOSES to get pregnant.

bronte wrote: »

The day I'd let someone tell me what to do with my own goddamn tits.
If you want to breastfeed , fine.
If someone expresses a desire not to, kindly piss off and allow them to get on with their lives.
I'm adopted and was bottle fed, I was still an a-student.
These breast-feeding pushers are as bad as the natural birth brigade.
It's all a matter of personal choice.

Amen to that.

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

Incorrect! Why vandalise your tits unnecessarily.

If men had a situation where their testicles would end up down around their knees just to increase a babies nutrition a smidge.....I'd say ....erm......testicle feeding rates would drop though the floor, much like your tits do after a sprog has gnawed on em.

Also amen to this!



One man's rubbish is another man's treasure. Just because some women want to breastfeed their babies, or because some men want their babies to be breastfed doesn't mean everyone should have to do it.

Fair enough, we didn't always have formula but we do now. It seems to be working fine because I wasn't breast fed but oh look, surprise, surprise, I turned out just like everyone else! Breast is best seems to be thrown around a lot here. A lot of things are for the best but that doesn't mean we do them. Do you all exercise daily, drink plenty of water, get eight hours of sleep a night, not smoke etc etc? If you're so keen to advocate what is best, it's said the best place to start is with yourself.

Breastfeeding is wonderful. Not breastfeeding is no problem. In fact, if breastfeeding is causing the mother an undue amount of stress and discomfort, I'd say that bottle feeding is, in fact, better.

I'm all for promoting what's natural but if a woman decides that no, she doesn't want to breastfeed, even if for no reason, then fine! It doesn't make her any less of a mother.

All anyone needs to worry about is what they wanna do, what's gonna work for them and their baby. If Mrs X doesn't want to breastfeed her child, who gives a flying fcuk?! She was given the option, she said no, the end. Her baby will still do all the same things!

gingerhousewife

Azureus wrote: »

Which is exactly why I ended my post with a comment on the cultural differences of what is acceptable. That was in no way implying that the lady was wrong and i was right-I just stated that it made me feel uncomfortable, which it did.

but you also said (and I'm not trying to be argumentative here) that sometimes it's just not the time or the place. I don't blame you, as you say it is a cultural thing, and it is the culture we live in that has conditioned you (and many, many others) to think like this. I am simply tryin to point out what I feel is the injustice of that way of thinking, as if nobody speaks up nothing will change.

Again, I believe every woman has the right to choose whether to breastfeed or not, but in my experience it is not those who choose not to who are judged unfairly for the most part.

Little Acorn

These last few posts have reminded me of this last december:

http://www.asiaone.com/Digital/News/Story/A1Story20081229-111017.html


It caused absolute uproar,with thousands and thousands of women forming a protest group.


I can't remember if they banned the pictures on people who had private accounts/pages??

Joey the lips

http://www.irishhealth.com/discussion/message.html?dis=2&topic=7734

apparently 42pc of women put the lck of brestfeeding down to Fear/Embarresment.

Personally: I figure the market in baby formula supports the amount that dont brest feed

Ann22

I breastfed both my sons. The first for only a month though, I was only 20 and he was screaming round the clock with colic. I got very little support from the health nurse who hinted that he may not be getting enough. I put him on the bottle and he was even worse. He screamed even worse between feeds 'til he was 5mths:(.
My second, I had 10 yrs later. I managed to do it for 4mths. He too screamed a lot though thank God he slept well at night. He was a great wee feeder but was very underweight. I had people saying 'would you not give him a bottle' all the fcukin' time though my oh was really great, very supportive. When he went on the bottle his weight still didn't rise. He was eventually put on prescribed high calorie formula milk. He was 16mths before he scraped the minimum weight line on the nurse's graph:(. He's a chubby wee lad now:).
I found the whole bfding extremely stressful, if I could tell exactly what they were 'getting' it would've been a load off my mind. I did it because I felt it was best with the antibodies etc not because I felt pressure to do it. In fact, I felt more pressure not to, especially with my first.

BostonB

Novella wrote: »

...Breastfeeding is wonderful. Not breastfeeding is no problem. In fact, if breastfeeding is causing the mother an undue amount of stress and discomfort, I'd say that bottle feeding is, in fact, better. ...

+1

neeb

Jealousy!

I am breastfeeding my daughter, no pain, no people looking at me funny.

Your own mum is capable of no wrong and she fed you formula so it must be great?????


Pregnancy stretches your boobs, not breastfeeding.

If you don't breastfeed your milk dries up. This is a sad natural reaction to a stillbirth not a natural adaption to formula!!

Formula is a mass market product that's heavily promoted and advertised. Here is whats in it.
http://www.bellybelly.com.au/articles/pregnancy/baby-formula

Its all our business because we pay for it through the Drugs payment scheme (that's why pharmacies sell formula) and health costs on medical cards and hospitals.
The US government pays for half of all formula sold in the US. Don't know what the figure is here but I don't want to be paying for it.

BostonB

So you breast fed so everyone must be able to do it?

neeb

BostonB wrote: »

So you breast fed so everyone must be able to do it?

98% of new moms can. There is a real culture of failure about breastfeeding, its NOT rocket science.
Get some help to learn how to do it (not just the hospital) and away you go.

eviltwin

neeb wrote: »

98% of new moms can. There is a real culture of failure about breastfeeding, its NOT rocket science.
Get some help to learn how to do it (not just the hospital) and away you go.

But not everyone WANTS to do it

Granted there are a lot of women who want to suceed but the resources to help them learn or get through the tough times just arent there. When I gave birth to my daughter I was in hospital for 3 days and I dont recall seeing anyone coming around showing the new mothers how its done so that is something that needs to be adressed

But lets not forget that not all mothers actually want to do it in the first place. For whatever reason they would rather use formula. I was one of those mothers. I just didnt want to try it, I thought about it and decided it wasnt for me. I dont feel guilty about that. It was my decision and mine alone.

Lets not forget that how you choose to feed your baby is one tiny part of being a parent. There are far more important things out there to worry about.

neeb

eviltwin wrote: »

But lets not forget that not all mothers actually want to do it in the first place.

But I want them to do it. As I have said above we as tax payers are paying for this through the drugs payment scheme and hospitals. I have a right to an opnion about how everyone in the country feeds their child.

eviltwin wrote: »

Lets not forget that how you choose to feed your baby is one tiny part of being a parent. There are far more important things out there to worry about.

Breastfeeding is not just feeding, its also providing your baby with an immune system. I think its the first important decision you make for your child.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Ara women are too good looking nowadays..........

nlgbbbblth

Azureus wrote: »

I think breastfeeding is natural, great, good for the baby yada yada, but I dont see why other mothers/the OP think they can criticise women for not making this choice. It is their choice after all.
I know there are many physical benefits to breastfeeding, but formula does just as good a job-I was bottlefed and was never or at least very rarely sick and had a very close bond to my mother. I never asked her why she chose bottle instead of breast, but there is nothing physically wrong with her so I can only assume it was just not what she felt comfortable with (as a stay at home mother I cant imagine it was an inconvenience issue)
I do feel sorry for women who have to put up with criticism for breastfeeding in public in general, but sometimes its just not the time or place to see a woman with her boobs out. Case in point the other day on the train (rush hour, packed!!) and an African lady sat there with literally everything hanging out and baby sucking away. Now im a woman, and a liberal one who certainly does not mind a woman breastfeeding in public, but you cant justify that in my mind. It made me feel very uncomfortable and I didnt know where to look as i was sitting next to her. It wasnt subtle, and the breast was not covered, but I guess this just kinda exemplifies what an earlier poster said; cultural difference and how we are brought up largely determines whether we breastfeed or not/how/where we do so.

the highlighted text seems to sum up your attitude to breastfeeding.

dismissive.

Kaybe

Wow - long time since I saw such uneducated and misinformed posts as some of the posts above! (Note, I said some)

Not everyone wants to BF. It wrecks your t1ts for a start

Another thing is women who BF end up doing all the feeding. If the babby wakes at night and if breeastfed only the woman can do it. If its bottle fed then both parents take their turn

I've seen babies puking up blood and chunks of nipple and howling with starvation because of these misguided evangelists

She has already given up everything while pregnant and birth might have ruined her sex life forever and now she is supposed to sacrifice her tits too?

Ah me b0ll0x, you ask any woman to show you her norks before and after breatfeeding. Before nice roundy, bouncy and pert. After two empty pillowcases. To say otherwise is denial.

Sorry , but you literally haven't a clue what you are talking about. Zero.
I'm all for debate and having strong opinions, but please, do the rest of us a favour and do even a modicum of research before you post such utter tripe. Your ignorance on the matter of breastfeeding is absolutely astounding.

Hey, havin' a penis is also the most natural thing in the world, but who really wants to be whipping it out in public?

Childish argument.
Unless you are capable of feeidng your child with your penis, I just don't see the connection.


I personally don't give a hoot what the lady next to me does - her child, her choice.
I completely respect a lady who says that she simply doesn't want to breastfeed her child. Fine, off with her. I'm not into shoving my opinions down anyones throat. But, when I see bullsh1t posts, like some of the above, that some women will then use as a basis for deciding that they don't want to breastfeed it just drives me queer.

If someone is thinking of breastfeeding I say, do some research and make an informed decision. Maybe talk to some women who actually have breastfed their child(ren) to find out some real information, and not just listen to some half-wit on an anonymous discussion forum who has clearly never breastfed a child and clearly knows nothing whatsoever about the subject matter.

Sure, breastfeeding can be difficult and sometimes painful, but lets not forget that breastfeeding
.....CAN be very easy
... CAN be far less stressful than bottlefeeding
... CAN be very convenient (anytime anywhere!)
... CAN be done in public without anyone even noticing
... CAN be done in public and even if someone notices they normally don't react at all (never had one reaction positive or negative myself)
... CAN be painfree
.... CAN even be quite enjoyable (shock, horror!!!!)
... CAN be shared with your partner...(leave a bottle of expressed milk and head off for 8 hours blissful sleep)
... CAN be done without giving up drink
... CAN be done and still maintain a social life
... CAN be done even if you are working outside the home - even for a few months while on mat leave
... CAN be done very discreetly.
And lots of other good stuff.

Like I said, not into shoving my opinion on breastfeeding down peoples throat, and in my social group women breastfeed and bottlefeed and no-one blinks an eye at either option. Each to their own. But, just want to combat the heavy focus on negativity towards breastfeeding in this thread.

jiltloop

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

I've seen babies puking up blood and chunks of nipple and howling with starvation because of these misguided evangelists.

This sentence contains some of the largest amounts of sensationalist bullsh!t I have ever read. And I have read quite a few tabloid newspapers and internet drivel.

BostonB

neeb wrote: »

98% of new moms can. There is a real culture of failure about breastfeeding, its NOT rocket science.
Get some help to learn how to do it (not just the hospital) and away you go.

Where does your 98% statistic come from?

MLE

Speaking not about research but from my own personal experience. I have two children and when pregnant on my first, research breast feeding a lot, attended classes, looked into support networks etc. I was pro breast feeding.

I had a horror story birth on my first child but still put the child to my breast and fed her myself or tried to.

Several things got in the way and let me to give up.

1)my birth -- I was very sick and weak afterwards
2) my milk wasn't coming in to begin with and my baby ended up with bad Jaundice and had to spend two night in the special care unit and then a further 2 nights on a billie blanket.
3) because of the jaundice the hospital insisted that the baby should get bottles but encouraged me to continue feeding around bottles.
4) I started expressing as baby was in scu. I remember being in the nursery one night putting my expressed milk ( which barely covered the bottom of a bottle) in the fridge while talking to another new mum who was openly upset that she didn't have enough milk yet she had filled one and a half bottles. It made me feel like such a failure.
5) when I got home from hospital I didn't feel comfortable feeding in front of my father or father in law and so was stressed if they would come up to visit and even though they would wait in another room, I was stressed as they were waiting, baby became stressed and wouldn't latch on.
6) when expressing at home one evening blood started being pumped out of my breast into the milk and even though I know in theory this is ok to give to your baby, I couldn't do it and stopped expressing.
7) the final straw was that I got a bad infection and had to be readmitted for 4 nights back into hospital and it was decision time, do I stop breastfeeding and concentrate on getting me better or do I continue. The advice I got from the hospital and my family was that for my own health I should give up. So I did and found bottles much better.

On my second pregnancy I thought I would give it another go, but unfortunately I had a very similiar horror story birth. Full labour followed my emergency section. The Doctor had just finished telling me that my womb was very badly scared from the bad infection on my first baby and that she would have to double stitch the womb to make it stable. The midwife just asked me would I like to breast feed, I admire her for asking but it was like saying 'HOW CAN WE MAKE YOU SUFFER MORE TODAY?' So I said I wouldn't and didn't look back.

My two kids have no serious allergies or asthma and I know of breast fed babies who have bad allergies so I have no regrets now.

BostonB

Kaybe wrote: »

...Like I said, not into shoving my opinion on breastfeeding down peoples throat, and in my social group women breastfeed and bottlefeed and no-one blinks an eye at either option. Each to their own. But, just want to combat the heavy focus on negativity towards breastfeeding in this thread.

Regardless of the cranks, theres some with Rose Tinted glasses too, where it never rains.

Kaybe

BostonB wrote: »

Regardless of the cranks, theres some with Rose Tinted glasses too, where it never rains.

.. Me?
Gosh, I don't think I have rose tinted glasses.
Think I'm very realistic about it - I've seen the negatives, but I've also seen the positives, and for me the positives obviously out weighed the negatives as I chose to continue with it for 4mths & 10mths.
A good 90% of my friends/family breastfed and between us we've faced practically every difficulty there could be , but we overcame them (it's possible) .
And, there was narry a "chunk of nipple" or "baby vomiting blood" between us all:rolleyes:. THAT'S the kind of tripe that ticks me off when I see it. Chunks of nipples... if that was the case, there'd be all these women down in the local surgery getting their nipples reattached. Seriously, who believes, never mind propagates that ****e?

There are down sides to bottlefeeding too, so the rose tinted glasses can go both ways.

BostonB

...and you reply quoting a crank, and claiming its possible to overcome all...I rest my case.

Theres up and downsides to everything. When you can only see one side, thats the problem.

neeb

BostonB wrote: »

Where does your 98% statistic come from?

http://www.babymilkaction.org/pages/uklaw.html
Breastfeeding rates in Europe
In countries where there is little or no advertising and where the hospital practices support mothers who want to breastfeed, breastfeeding rates are very high:Norway - 99%, Sweden 97%, Denmark 98%, Poland 93%, Rumania 91%, Czech Republic 92%.
In contrast, where the bulk of health information is provided by the baby food manufacturers, breastfeeding rates are very low: Ireland 31%, France 50%, Scotland, 50% (in some parts of Glasgow less than 7%)

neeb

BostonB wrote: »

...and you reply quoting a crank, and claiming its possible to overcome all...I rest my case.

Theres up and downsides to everything. When you can only see one side, thats the problem.

The World Health Organization only sees one side after years of research.

neeb

MLE wrote: »

Speaking not about research but from my own personal experience. I have two children and when pregnant on my first, research breast feeding a lot, attended classes, looked into support networks etc. I was pro breast feeding.

I had a horror story birth on my first child but still put the child to my breast and fed her myself or tried to.

Several things got in the way and let me to give up.

1)my birth -- I was very sick and weak afterwards
2) my milk wasn't coming in to begin with and my baby ended up with bad Jaundice and had to spend two night in the special care unit and then a further 2 nights on a billie blanket.
3) because of the jaundice the hospital insisted that the baby should get bottles but encouraged me to continue feeding around bottles.
4) I started expressing as baby was in scu. I remember being in the nursery one night putting my expressed milk ( which barely covered the bottom of a bottle) in the fridge while talking to another new mum who was openly upset that she didn't have enough milk yet she had filled one and a half bottles. It made me feel like such a failure.
5) when I got home from hospital I didn't feel comfortable feeding in front of my father or father in law and so was stressed if they would come up to visit and even though they would wait in another room, I was stressed as they were waiting, baby became stressed and wouldn't latch on.
6) when expressing at home one evening blood started being pumped out of my breast into the milk and even though I know in theory this is ok to give to your baby, I couldn't do it and stopped expressing.
7) the final straw was that I got a bad infection and had to be readmitted for 4 nights back into hospital and it was decision time, do I stop breastfeeding and concentrate on getting me better or do I continue. The advice I got from the hospital and my family was that for my own health I should give up. So I did and found bottles much better.

On my second pregnancy I thought I would give it another go, but unfortunately I had a very similiar horror story birth. Full labour followed my emergency section. The Doctor had just finished telling me that my womb was very badly scared from the bad infection on my first baby and that she would have to double stitch the womb to make it stable. The midwife just asked me would I like to breast feed, I admire her for asking but it was like saying 'HOW CAN WE MAKE YOU SUFFER MORE TODAY?' So I said I wouldn't and didn't look back.

My two kids have no serious allergies or asthma and I know of breast fed babies who have bad allergies so I have no regrets now.

This is a classic case of total lack of appropriate support in the hospital.

Kaybe

BostonB wrote: »

Theres up and downsides to everything. When you can only see one side, thats the problem.

BostonB - Maybe if you read the posts properly you might see people making some valid points. You state that I "can only see one side, that's the problem" - the problem obviously (implied) is that I'm intolerant of other women who chose not to breastfeed. Nothing could be further from the truth. I respectfully suggest that you read my posts again and you will see that I've clearly made the following statements :

Sure, breastfeeding can be difficult and sometimes painful,

I personally don't give a hoot what the lady next to me does - her child, her choice.
I completely respect a lady who says that she simply doesn't want to breastfeed her child. Fine, off with her

my social group women breastfeed and bottlefeed and no-one blinks an eye at either option

Each to their own

I've seen the negatives

A good 90% of my friends/family breastfed and between us we've faced practically every difficulty there could be , but we overcame them (it's possible).

Whether you like it or not, of all the people I've known who breastfeed, we've managed to come through the whole list of negative things (the cracked nipples, the sometimes painful latches, the engorgement, the fevers from threatened mastitis etc etc) and I stated that it's "POSSIBLE" to overcome these things.

But, from that, you somehow jump to a mad conclusion that I can only see the positive things about breastfeeding. Puh-lease....