Just 55pc of mothers breastfeed newborns

neeb

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

That was my point, that like the majority of C sections, sometimes you don't have a choice and it's not fair to be criticised for it.

Not breastfeeding is generally the mothers choice. There are cases where there is no choice but to formula feed but its rare.
Most mums want to breastfeed, most moms want to avoid a c section.

I like the way this article talks about the lack of support for breastfeeding.
http://kellymom.com/newman/bf_and_guilt_01-00.html

Jesus Wept

Who do the other 45% breastfeed? :pac:

neeb

eviltwin wrote: »

Its a free market and if a family want to spend money on formula they should be free to do so

We are paying for it through the Drugs payment scheme and health care costs.

eviltwin wrote: »

And why even have formula...why dont you donate your milk to the babies who are in desperate need of it

My baby is drinking my milk at present.

eviltwin wrote: »

Listen to yourself..you would think ireland is like a third world country with sick malnourished infants the way you bang on about it. It is a PERSONAL CHOICE....god I feel really sorry for your kids growing up with someone as close minded as you

Just on kid so far and I think she is lucky.
There are few malnourished babies in Ireland thankfully. Formula provides enough nutrients for a baby. Breast milk provides more targeted easily absorbed nutrients, enzymes to help digest the milk, antibodies, hormones and neurotransmitter precursors.

Macha

neeb wrote: »

I am not open minded about breastfeeding, who said I was???. I think formula should be available on prescription only and therefore only available to mothers and babies who genuinely need it (the 1-2% with genuine problems). i think formula companies are acting unethically prompting formula as they do.

What an incredible invasion of personal choice of the woman over her body. Who gets to decide who "genuinely needs" it?

Why don't you just microchip all mothers and send them electric shocks when they don't breastfeed their babies and be done with it?

eviltwin

neeb wrote: »

We are paying for it through the Drugs payment scheme and health care costs.




Just on kid so far and I think she is lucky.
There are few malnourished babies in Ireland thankfully. Formula provides enough nutrients for a baby. Breast milk provides more targeted easily absorbed nutrients, enzymes to help digest the milk, antibodies, hormones and neurotransmitter precursors.

But Neeb you can raise the argument about what is good for kids about anything out there....its endless. As a parent you are constantly being told do this / dont do that.

I dont know what age your daughter is but I have a 12 year old and it NEVER GOES AWAY!!! Every choice you make has someone who finds something wrong with it.

You just have to go with the flow and make the right choice for you...sometimes its not always the ideal for your kid but you have no option.

You cant come on here and make a statement that mothers should be forced to breastfeed...what kind of world would that be for your child if she decided she didnt want to do it? Every mother is different, I'm thrilled you had such a fantastic experience of it but your nazi attitude isnt doing the breast feeding brigade any favours

seahorse

neeb wrote: »

But I want them to do it.

Newsflash: There are many hundreds of thousands of pairs of breasts in this country - only one of them belongs to you!

neeb

taconnol wrote: »

What an incredible invasion of personal choice of the woman over her body. Who gets to decide who "genuinely needs" it?

Why don't you just microchip all mothers and send them electric shocks when they don't breastfeed their babies and be done with it?

same as anything on a prescription, a doctor.

gingerhousewife

The-Rigger wrote: »

Who do the other 45% breastfeed? :pac:

Because we love our children and want to give them the best possible start in life

neeb

eviltwin wrote: »

But Neeb you can raise the argument about what is good for kids about anything out there....its endless. As a parent you are constantly being told do this / dont do that.

I know, mostly I do my own research and try not to listen to people who are not qualified to be giving advice.

neeb

eviltwin wrote: »

your nazi attitude isnt doing the breast feeding brigade any favours

Please don't call me a nazi

Oh The Humanity

Im astounded by the amount of people that think I was making up the 'story' about the woman with the chewed up nipples who lost tissue and whose baby had chunks of blood and tissue in her vomit.

I like to retain my anonymity and so I am not going to relate who the person was just to satisfy some cranks but let me assure you that was real and did happen to someone I know well.

She tried so hard to breastfeed she had breasteeding experts coming out of her ears. The baby was starving. One of these Brestapo jokers even came to the house and stuck on this weird device to her back with tiny tubes that came over her shoulders leading down to the nipples. The idea was to try to fool the baby into sucking at the nipple while getting formula from this device. So that the womans nipples could heal while she continued to try to feed it.

It was proposterous and all the while, while this was going on the baby was starving. This was a huge baby with a very greedy suck. Eventually two experienced (4 kids each) mothers intervened and took the girl aside and explained that it was not supposed to be this hard and it would be better to just feed the baby with a bottle. They themselves had breastfed but with common sense could clearly see that it wasn't working for this girl and she had had all the help, but the baby was starving and that was more important than satisfying the ego's of the Breastapo.

It comes to a certain point where if the baby is hungry just feed it whatever it takes.

I have since heard that woman in conversation with others who experienced similar problems if not so severe.

It really shows that the Breastapo do live up to their stereotype of being ostritches in denial when it comes to any stories of failure....the attitude of 'oh it didn't happen to me so it doesn't happen to anyone' is so arrogant and smug its sickening.

It shouldn't be about the mothers ego, one mother looking down on another. Its not a competition and those who feel smug and superior wont for long. They may be world champs at breastfeeding but rearing kids is more complicated than that. There are thousands of other things that make a good child and those who think they have it all worked out are in for a rude awakening.

BostonB

neeb wrote: »

Walking and Irish.
We are talking about Irish babies. I don't really care what people in the rest of the world do ...

But yet you've posted about other countries. Many with better Heath Services than our own, mostly much better with regard to support for this.

neeb wrote: »

Newborns are born with an immature immune system, by the time they are walking they have a more mature immune system. They start to produce their own antibodies in the first year. I really don't see where you are coming from?

The issue was you scaremonfering about having no immune system. Walking is just noise.

neeb wrote: »

There is support out there, you have to go and find it. Assuming it will work because you will "give it a go" in a crowded busy hospital is why the drop off rates are so high. That and the type of repressed, jealous, narrow minded attitude shown so clearly on this thread.

The logic being, if you try it, (and intend to continue you'd assume otherwise why start), but stop. That therefore you are repressed, jealous, and narrow minded. That makes no sense. If you were all that, you wouldn't have started.

People have posted about poor support. I've seen and heard this too. Must have been imagining it. I must have been jealous of...

Macha

neeb wrote: »

same as anything on a prescription, a doctor.

I'm sorry, do I have this right? You want to make feeding formula a prescription-only medicine?

What a ridiculous, draconian (not to mention expensive) proposal! Don't you think life is hard enough for new mothers without piling the pressure on them like this?

And what gives you the right to tell them what to do with their bodies. It is a disgusting invasion of women's bodies to tell them they HAVE to breastfeed unless a doctor tells them otherwise. Jesus. Mothers have to put up with enough advice and crap from everyone telling them what to do. Just the other day a shop assistant refused to sell CHEESE to a pregnant woman.

Agonist

This thread is so strange!
There's one group of people saying that bottle feeding isn't accepted, that mothers get hassled and abused when they pull out a bottle.
The other side is saying that there isn't enough support and that people give breastfeeding mothers a hard time in public.

I don't know where to begin so I'll keep it short.

Breast is best. Yes, it's best for the baby and best for the mother. Which means, (and you never hear this said) that formula is worst. So, not just an equally good option. It's bad.

Breastfeeding is difficult to establish. Remember the first time you had sex? Blood, pain and embarrassment? Are you glad you persevered?

Which brings me to... The advice mothers get in hospital is horrible. Nurses tugging women's nipples, telling them that they are doing it wrong, making the mother feel deformed with their "inverted nipples" and failure to produce enough milk. Women need to talk to other women who have breastfed successfully, and the lucky ones can ask their own mothers. Otherwise, ask 99% of women in Scandinavia.

It's a woman's chioce how she wants to feed her child, just as it's her choice to get good nutrition while she's pregnant, to cut down on cigarettes and alcohol. Why is it not permitted to say that one choice is bad and the other is good? Or, one choice is wrong and the other right.

Also, "I was bottle fed and I'm fine" doesn't cut any ice. The plural of anecdote is not data. "The Christian Brother's battered me black and blue and it didn't do me any harm".

I'm trying not to be annoyed by all this but I'll give one example. It infuriates me when there's a baby beside me on an aeroplane wailing its little heart out and the Dad is jiggling it on his knee. How about if the baby was skin to skin with its mother, surrounded by her warmth and scent, hearing the murmur of her voice, and being fed nectar that is pure and uncomplicated. Every single need being met, heartbeat being regulated, the bond growing stronger, plus the sucking pops the baby's ears and takes the pain away.

When I see a young baby being bottle fed I'm not outraged, I feel pity for the mother who for reasons of poor education, lack of support, working class background or physical problems is not able to do the best for her child. And I'm sorry for the baby who is missing out on one of the few perfect experiences we can have in life.

eviltwin

Funnily enough I think its great to see dad's with their babies giving mums a break. God knows men get a hard enough time as it is about how rubbish they are as parents in this country without posters like the poster above having a further go when they make the effort....

The reality is as a mum you are damned if you do and damned if you dont. I didnt bf my daugher and had the tits mafia that were living in my area look down their noses at me for daring to pull out a bottle in their company..you'd swear the child was drinking gin

Then you would be in public and see disgusting sneers and pointed fingers from people if a mother was feeding her child..a hard thing to deal with for any woman.

Lets face it folks..if you are a parent nothing you do will ever be right, there will always be someone out there who has a problem. All you can do is find what is best for you and your and screw the haters.

nlgbbbblth

Oh The Humanity wrote: »

It shouldn't be about the mothers ego, one mother looking down on another. Its not a competition and those who feel smug and superior wont for long.

In my experience there's quite a few smug and superior bottle-feeders out there who turn up their noses at breast-feeding mothers.

nlgbbbblth

mariaalice wrote: »

im surprised no one have brought up the whole middle class argument...if you ask any midwives who is most lightly to breast feed ..the answer is older middle class mums...and the reason is because breast is best and middle class parent will give there child every advantage they can ..plus they are more lightly to have supportive partners and a lot of other supports in there lives...i suspect the reason the Norway rate is so high is because of the superb social service they have which offers a Hugh amount of support to new mothers

Agonist wrote: »

When I see a young baby being bottle fed I'm not outraged, I feel pity for the mother who for reasons of poor education, lack of support, working class background or physical problems is not able to do the best for her child. And I'm sorry for the baby who is missing out on one of the few perfect experiences we can have in life.

I agree with the class thing.

why is this?

BostonB

Most peoples perception is coloured by their own experience.

Dudess

Agonist wrote: »

When I see a young baby being bottle fed I'm not outraged, I feel pity for the mother who for reasons of poor education, lack of support, working class background or physical problems is not able to do the best for her child. And I'm sorry for the baby who is missing out on one of the few perfect experiences we can have in life.

Oh noez... "working class background"...

Agonist

Dudess wrote: »

Oh noez... "working class background"...

I wasn't making a judgement about class . I was listing known factors contributing to lower takeup of breastfeeding. "poor education, lack of support, working class background or physical problems"

Obviously, none of those automatically prohibits a woman from breastfeeding. I don't see what point you are making.

Dudess

"Working class background" as a negative - the second time on this thread.

Agonist

Dudess wrote: »

"Working class background" as a negative - the second time on this thread.

If you consider that bottle feeding is not ideal, and that coming from a working class background makes bottle feeding more likely then in that respect the working class thing is a negative. In the same way as having tender nipples is a negative, i.e. something that makes it more difficult in general but can be overcome.

In many other ways being working class is not a negative. When class causes drawbacks is there a good reason why we can't mention it?? Also, are we allowed to mention class when it's in a positive light?

MmmmmCheese

Agonist wrote: »

This thread is so strange!
There's one group of people saying that bottle feeding isn't accepted, that mothers get hassled and abused when they pull out a bottle.
The other side is saying that there isn't enough support and that people give breastfeeding mothers a hard time in public.

I don't know where to begin so I'll keep it short.

Breast is best. Yes, it's best for the baby and best for the mother. Which means, (and you never hear this said) that formula is worst. So, not just an equally good option. It's bad.

Breastfeeding is difficult to establish. Remember the first time you had sex? Blood, pain and embarrassment? Are you glad you persevered?

Which brings me to... The advice mothers get in hospital is horrible. Nurses tugging women's nipples, telling them that they are doing it wrong, making the mother feel deformed with their "inverted nipples" and failure to produce enough milk. Women need to talk to other women who have breastfed successfully, and the lucky ones can ask their own mothers. Otherwise, ask 99% of women in Scandinavia.

It's a woman's chioce how she wants to feed her child, just as it's her choice to get good nutrition while she's pregnant, to cut down on cigarettes and alcohol. Why is it not permitted to say that one choice is bad and the other is good? Or, one choice is wrong and the other right.

Also, "I was bottle fed and I'm fine" doesn't cut any ice. The plural of anecdote is not data. "The Christian Brother's battered me black and blue and it didn't do me any harm".

I'm trying not to be annoyed by all this but I'll give one example. It infuriates me when there's a baby beside me on an aeroplane wailing its little heart out and the Dad is jiggling it on his knee. How about if the baby was skin to skin with its mother, surrounded by her warmth and scent, hearing the murmur of her voice, and being fed nectar that is pure and uncomplicated. Every single need being met, heartbeat being regulated, the bond growing stronger, plus the sucking pops the baby's ears and takes the pain away.

When I see a young baby being bottle fed I'm not outraged, I feel pity for the mother who for reasons of poor education, lack of support, working class background or physical problems is not able to do the best for her child. And I'm sorry for the baby who is missing out on one of the few perfect experiences we can have in life.

What a fcuking ignorant and patronising post. Just because a woman doesn't breastfeed her child doesn't mean she has a poor education or has physical problems. How unbelievably ignorant of you. What has any of these things got to do with whether a woman breastfeeds her child or not? It should be the mothers own choice and she should not be looked down upon by people like you.

Oh i was bottlefed and i am as mentally and emotionally stable as anyone else.

Agonist

MmmmmCheese wrote: »

What a fcuking ignorant and patronising post. Just because a woman doesn't breastfeed her child doesn't mean she has a poor education or has physical problems. How unbelievably ignorant of you. What has any of these things got to do with whether a woman breastfeeds her child or not?

Eh, that would be everything?

It should be the mothers own choice and she should not be looked down upon by people like you.

Oh i was bottlefed and i am as mentally and emotionally stable as anyone else.

I don't doubt it. The statistics are drawn from huge populations. One individual person proves nothing either way.

You won't find a pro breastfeeding person as full of bluff and bother as these people expressing their niggling doubt, guilt and regret with outraged anger.

(Already been accused of being patronising - may as well live up to it)

Agonist

MmmmmCheese wrote: »

It should be the mothers own choice and she should not be looked down upon by people like you.

It is the mother's own choice. I'm just wondering what the reasons for making that choice are.

As for "looking down at", it's not about making judgement calls, it's about working out why so many women don't even attempt to breastfeed despite the wealth of evidence that it's best for mother and baby.

emmiou

Three stories from one thread over on rollercoaster demonstrating the lack of support for breastfeeding in public...

"A man texted The Ray Darcy Show about half an hour ago giving out about how he was in a cafe in Ballina and was about to bite into his strawberry cake when he spotted a woman at the next table breastfeeding. He thinks it's disgusting and she should have gone to her car to do that sort of thing."

"When my own dd was 6 wks old, while bringing her for her 6wk check-up at my doctors (which is also a women's clinic) I had a run in with the receptionist who had 'told' me that I could not bf my baby in the waiting room as it may offend people and that I would have to go into the 'toilet' with my two yr old ds in tow and feed her there."

"I just want to let everyone know about the awful experience I had today. I'm a first time mum to 7 week old baby girl and just finding my feet with the breast-feeding, esp in public. I was out for lunch today with my in-laws in a well known public 'House' in Beaumont, Dublin 9 and when i started to discreetly breast feed the baby, i was asked to leave by the manager because "it wasn't fair on the other customers having their lunch" and that there was a room for 'that type of thing'. I was so shocked that I just instinctively got up and left the premises with both my infant and myself in tears. I hadn't ever considered that what i was doing would be offensive to others and was made to feel that I was doing something wrong and dirty. I spent the entire afternoon in tears and feel that my confidence about feeding in public has nose dived. My husband later confronted the man and was told to get off the premises and that he 'should be ashamed of himself'. I do not want to let this lie. I would love to highlight this issue and in particular this establishment. My mother-in-law came up with the great idea of organising a mass breast feeding session in the venue that would attract, if possible, media attention. I would love people to suggest how I could organise such an event and if people reading this would in fact be interested in taking part. I am not usually a confrontational person but I feel that I need to take a stance on this occasion or else I'll regret it. "

http://www.rollercoaster.ie/boards/mc.asp?ID=230839&G=31&forumdb=5

Bottle_of_Smoke

emmiou wrote: »

Three stories from one thread over on rollercoaster demonstrating the lack of support for breastfeeding in public...

"A man texted The Ray Darcy Show about half an hour ago giving out about how he was in a cafe in Ballina and was about to bite into his strawberry cake when he spotted a woman at the next table breastfeeding. He thinks it's disgusting and she should have gone to her car to do that sort of thing."

"When my own dd was 6 wks old, while bringing her for her 6wk check-up at my doctors (which is also a women's clinic) I had a run in with the receptionist who had 'told' me that I could not bf my baby in the waiting room as it may offend people and that I would have to go into the 'toilet' with my two yr old ds in tow and feed her there."

"I just want to let everyone know about the awful experience I had today. I'm a first time mum to 7 week old baby girl and just finding my feet with the breast-feeding, esp in public. I was out for lunch today with my in-laws in a well known public 'House' in Beaumont, Dublin 9 and when i started to discreetly breast feed the baby, i was asked to leave by the manager because "it wasn't fair on the other customers having their lunch" and that there was a room for 'that type of thing'. I was so shocked that I just instinctively got up and left the premises with both my infant and myself in tears. I hadn't ever considered that what i was doing would be offensive to others and was made to feel that I was doing something wrong and dirty. I spent the entire afternoon in tears and feel that my confidence about feeding in public has nose dived. My husband later confronted the man and was told to get off the premises and that he 'should be ashamed of himself'. I do not want to let this lie. I would love to highlight this issue and in particular this establishment. My mother-in-law came up with the great idea of organising a mass breast feeding session in the venue that would attract, if possible, media attention. I would love people to suggest how I could organise such an event and if people reading this would in fact be interested in taking part. I am not usually a confrontational person but I feel that I need to take a stance on this occasion or else I'll regret it. "

http://www.rollercoaster.ie/boards/mc.asp?ID=230839&G=31&forumdb=5

That's a disgrace. Anyone who disturbs a woman feeding her baby in public should have their head examined.

laura l

Agonist wrote: »

The advice mothers get in hospital is horrible. Nurses tugging women's nipples, telling them that they are doing it wrong, making the mother feel deformed with their "inverted nipples" and failure to produce enough milk.

i was given excellent advice by the midwives after i had my baby. i was never told i was "doing it wrong" when i asked for advice about BFing. i found them extremely supportive and i was shown different methods to see which suited best which i found very helpful, certainly not "horrible"!

Agonist wrote: »

When I see a young baby being bottle fed I'm not outraged, I feel pity for the mother who for reasons of poor education, lack of support, working class background or physical problems is not able to do the best for her child. And I'm sorry for the baby who is missing out on one of the few perfect experiences we can have in life.

poorly educated? working class backgrounds? physical problems? i know plenty of women who are highly educated, have read up on all the baby books and gone to all the antenatal classes, who are not from working class backgrounds, without physical problems who have not exclusively breastfed their children.
also, i'm sure there are plenty of women out there who despite "reasons of poor education", who come from working class backgrounds and do breastfeed their babies.

i have to say i take issue with your argument that a mother who does not breastfeed "is not able to do the best for her child".:mad:i'm sure there are plenty of mothers out there who would beg to differ.

Dudess

Agonist wrote: »

If you consider that bottle feeding is not ideal, and that coming from a working class background makes bottle feeding more likely then in that respect the working class thing is a negative. In the same way as having tender nipples is a negative, i.e. something that makes it more difficult in general but can be overcome.

In many other ways being working class is not a negative. When class causes drawbacks is there a good reason why we can't mention it?? Also, are we allowed to mention class when it's in a positive light?

"Working class" - it's a pretty broad term.

emmiou wrote: »

he was in a cafe in Ballina and was about to bite into his strawberry cake when he spotted a woman at the next table breastfeeding. He thinks it's disgusting

:pac:

"I just want to let everyone know about the awful experience I had today. I'm a first time mum to 7 week old baby girl and just finding my feet with the breast-feeding, esp in public. I was out for lunch today with my in-laws in a well known public 'House' in Beaumont, Dublin 9 and when i started to discreetly breast feed the baby, i was asked to leave by the manager because "it wasn't fair on the other customers having their lunch" and that there was a room for 'that type of thing'. I was so shocked that I just instinctively got up and left the premises with both my infant and myself in tears. I hadn't ever considered that what i was doing would be offensive to others and was made to feel that I was doing something wrong and dirty. I spent the entire afternoon in tears and feel that my confidence about feeding in public has nose dived. My husband later confronted the man and was told to get off the premises and that he 'should be ashamed of himself'.

In a nutshell: bewbs should only be sexy.

grenache

Forgive me here, i am only male, so i may have no business in this thread. I do feel sorry for the woman who was asked to leave the restaurant while breastfeeding her child. It was obviously dealt with in an inappropriate manner by the restaurant owner. I can however see how it would be discomforting for some customers to see breastfeeding in public. Yet if i was in charge there, i would have let it go and only approached the woman if a customer had complained. Even then i would have offered her a sideroom in which to feed her child. Ordering someone to leave a premises for 'breastfeeding a child' is way OTT.