SSIA`s- Have we anything to show for it ?

AlekSmart

Any opinions on the fruitfullness of the SSIA scheme ?

Did we de people spend it wisely or did we merely add it to the greater pot of gold spent on Porsche Cayenne`s and Gucci Wellingtons ??

invincibleirish

The SSIAs were another subsidy to the key electorate during the boom years - the moany middle classes. The fact that McCreevy was lauded for the SSIAs 'to take the heat out of the economy' shows how collectively blinkered this society is.

Firetrap

Good question. Are there any stats on what the SSIA money was used for? Deposits on houses? New cars? Reducing credit card debt?

dresden8

Firetrap wrote: »

Good question. Are there any stats on what the SSIA money was used for? Deposits on houses? New cars? Reducing credit card debt?

Knock yourself out.

http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/labour_market/current/qnhsssiaq42005.pdf

MrMicra

invincibleirish wrote: »

the moany middle classes

that must be an extraordinarily wide designation of 'middle class'. i know cleaners and receptionists who had SSIAs.

invincibleirish

MrMicra wrote: »

that must be an extraordinarily wide designation of 'middle class'. i know cleaners and receptionists who had SSIAs.

Who cares about who you know? hardly a quantitative sample now is it?. My point is based around McCreevy deciding to offer in essence a bribe to the electorate rather then investing in other areas, the kind of which we will wonder now the country is broke that we didnt do anything about/or not enough during the 'boom times', rather then topping up middle Irelands bank accounts.

dodgyme

invincibleirish wrote: »

Who cares about who you know? hardly a quantitative sample now is it?. My point is based around McCreevy deciding to offer in essence a bribe to the electorate rather then investing in other areas, the kind of which we will wonder now the country is broke that we didnt do anything about/or not enough during the 'boom times', rather then topping up middle Irelands bank accounts.

spot on. I know one lad who maxed out all his ssia's (including getting his parents etc to take them out for him etc etc) added to his apartment in town and sec 23 holiday home in wexford and house in meath, he explained to me how hard he had it with all his ssia's.

It was a scheme (on a policy level anyhow) to give people with money, more money just before the election. The amount of new cars queuing at the toll bridge when the schemes started to come on was unreal and loads of my workmates at the time got new cars with them also. I said I would have rathered they (the gov) put the cash into removing the toll bridge years earlier or public transport (and I am no fan of the greens.)

AlekSmart

Knock yourself out.

Yep It`s a celebrity Knockout alright

Those involved in Finance,Public Administration and Education figured highest in the SSIA takeup level....usually maxing it out to the n`th degree.

Interestingly although the CSO figures refer to approx 33% of SSIA recipients earmarking their fund for "Consumer Items" we also have 46% stating "Savings,Pensions & INVESTMENTS" as their planned route.

It would be most educational to get an angle on the type and format of those "Investments" and,for example see where they stand today

My feeling is that a substantial chunk (50% +) of the SSIA bonus funds went fairly rapidly into the Banking/Property sector and in some cases was the catalyst which enticed many who would otherwise have kept well away from "investing" in property "Sure-Things".

I remain of the view today as I took back then,that the very act of appointing a gentleman with a well known penchant for the equine Industry and it`s sporting expression as Minister for Finance was somewhat unwise

Asd the lad himself might have said...."Ye win some.....and.....Ye lose some" :P

Miss Pee Agent

Spent wisely? I got €15k from my SSIA spent every penny renovating my €145k property brought the value up to €200k. Said house has probably devalued to €130k since then. I'm no mathsologist but i think I lost out there. I accept we're all in the same boat with all our houses losing value so sometimes I regret not blowing it on unnecessary niceys or a necessary long trip around the world! I don't think i'd be better or worse off and I would have had fun. Maybe next time eh

Blackjack

I thought was a reasonably good idea, at the time. What it was an attempt to do was to encourage people to save, rather than spend spend spend (I'd like to think).

Sadly, the outcome was it was likely poured in to an inflating property market or this countries obsession with Material goods from Abercrombie and Fitch, so that one was equal or better than the Joneses next door.

There should have been a number of things done to prevent the bubble - introducing a tax on Second properties should have been done about 9 years ago, and more than the paltry 200 euros a year than is the current case would have been a start, but we all have the benefit of hindsight now really.

SeanW

Blackjack wrote: »

I thought was a reasonably good idea, at the time. What it was an attempt to do was to encourage people to save, rather than spend spend spend (I'd like to think).

Most of the accounts (rather conveniently) matured just before the 2007 election. Just a co-incidence ... I'm sure ...

Blackjack

SeanW wrote: »

Most of the accounts (rather conveniently) matured just before the 2007 election. Just a co-incidence ... I'm sure ...

no co-incidence I'd say.

dixiefly

Of course it was designed to mature before an election.

I was told around that time that one of the first things that FF during the Aherne/ Mccreevy/ PJ Mara era did after an election was to determine what was needed to get elected the next time! This was the priority ahead of doing what was right for the country.

I availed of the SSIA but would far far rather that our economy be managed in a way to maintain stability not in a way to cause the disaster that happened. of course a downturn would have happened but I dont think it would have been as abd as this.

Surprisingly i have some of my SSIA left - it is dwindling but I have been holding on for a rainy day but we have been having a few of them lately,

Liam Byrne

Miss Pee Agent wrote: »

Spent wisely? I got €15k from my SSIA spent every penny renovating my €145k property brought the value up to €200k. Said house has probably devalued to €130k since then. I'm no mathsologist but i think I lost out there. I accept we're all in the same boat with all our houses losing value so sometimes I regret not blowing it on unnecessary niceys or a necessary long trip around the world! I don't think i'd be better or worse off and I would have had fun. Maybe next time eh

I don't want to appear cruel, but if it's your house, where you're living, and you added stuff to it that YOU wanted (not stuff someone else might want if they bought it, or stuff that's supposed to just "add value" to the house) and stuff that makes it nicer for YOU to live in, then the notional value of the house is irrelevant.

gdael

Myself and my partner both still have our full SSIAs in savings.
We were planning to use it to buy a house (which hopefully we are closing on in a few weeks), but its making more money where it is than it would save us paying off the new house price. So there it will stay with the rest of our savings until it is more economical to pay it of the mortgage.

At the point where it will save us interest on the mortgage relative to interest earned in savings, we will pay it all off the mortgage.

I know people who did the same as us, some who put it in trust funds for their children, some who bought cars they didnt need, some who blew it in all sorts of ways like holidays, buying bank shares or boats. Each to their own. But it was certainly a no brainer to have an SSIA.

jimmmy

MrMicra wrote: »

that must be an extraordinarily wide designation of 'middle class'. i know cleaners and receptionists who had SSIAs.

I know a postman who had 5 investment properties during the celtic tiger !

parsi

My wife's hairdresser's sister-in-law's brother was a brickie and he bought 7 apartments with his SSIA money.

Supposedly his boss sold two entire blocks to postmen at a 165% profit. One of these postmen had a buddy who had just retired on a postmans pension and he got 3 times his annual wage as a lump sum so he bought 2 aprtment blocks in Spain in a consortium that also included 2 Guards fresh from Templemore and 1 who had retired after 30 years service..

Now Jimmmy - I've saved you having to post anything more.

optocynic

AlekSmart wrote: »

Any opinions on the fruitfullness of the SSIA scheme ?

Did we de people spend it wisely or did we merely add it to the greater pot of gold spent on Porsche Cayenne`s and Gucci Wellingtons ??

I know two girls that got nice new boobs outta it!!!

AlekSmart

I know two girls that got nice new boobs outta it!!!

Gucci Wellies.....New Boobs....Worth a punt ??

lmimmfn

i still have mine, didnt experience any celtic tiger other than prices of everything going sky high, bought no new cars and didnt throw money away on crap. I would say im not alone in my position. Maybe ill put a deposit on a house if i can get a mortgage( Im not a homeowner and would never pay the extortionate prices of the past 10 years )

Firefox10

Well, I still have mine sitting in the bank. Although it's now going to have be my bail out money since im about to be made redundant in December. No nice shiny new cars here either.

Hydrosylator

Yes we do.
Fianna Fáil are still in charge, wasn't that the whole point?

Tipp Man

dodgyme wrote: »

spot on. I know one lad who maxed out all his ssia's (including getting his parents etc to take them out for him etc etc) added to his apartment in town and sec 23 holiday home in wexford and house in meath, he explained to me how hard he had it with all his ssia's.

It was a scheme (on a policy level anyhow) to give people with money, more money just before the election. The amount of new cars queuing at the toll bridge when the schemes started to come on was unreal and loads of my workmates at the time got new cars with them also. I said I would have rathered they (the gov) put the cash into removing the toll bridge years earlier or public transport (and I am no fan of the greens.)

But is that a problem with the scheme or a problem with the people who received the money, for me (and i didn't have a SSIA) the idea behind it is good, it just that in typical Irish fashion as soon as the money was paid out people blew it. The idea was to get people to a) get into a savings habit which is obviously good and b) to take a little heat out of the economy. the problem was that when they matured the economy was already nearing boiling point.

For me McCreavy gets a bit of a raw deal, I thought he was quite a good minister (i'm not a FF head by the way) and some of his ideas were good even if they didn't work out quite as he intended. eg decentralisation is a good idea in principle, but there were a couple of fundamental flaws 1) he didn't factor in the public sector mentality so it should have been mandatory moves 2) there should have been less locations but moved entire departments there

Remember McCreavey said just before he was sent to Brussels that there should be no more public servants hired (less than 300k at the time) and that he wanted wages controlled in that sector. I think he defo had a better handle on things than Cowen did

Tipp Man

lmimmfn wrote: »

i still have mine, didnt experience any celtic tiger other than prices of everything going sky high, bought no new cars and didnt throw money away on crap. I would say im not alone in my position. Maybe ill put a deposit on a house if i can get a mortgage( Im not a homeowner and would never pay the extortionate prices of the past 10 years )

A very wise man, if there were more like you around we might not be in the mess we are in

rasper

Tipp Man wrote: »

But is that a problem with the scheme or a problem with the people who received the money, for me (and i didn't have a SSIA) the idea behind it is good, it just that in typical Irish fashion as soon as the money was paid out people blew it. The idea was to get people to a) get into a savings habit which is obviously good and b) to take a little heat out of the economy. the problem was that when they matured the economy was already nearing boiling point.

For me McCreavy gets a bit of a raw deal, I thought he was quite a good minister (i'm not a FF head by the way) and some of his ideas were good even if they didn't work out quite as he intended. eg decentralisation is a good idea in principle, but there were a couple of fundamental flaws 1) he didn't factor in the public sector mentality so it should have been mandatory moves 2) there should have been less locations but moved entire departments there

Remember McCreavey said just before he was sent to Brussels that there should be no more public servants hired (less than 300k at the time) and that he wanted wages controlled in that sector. I think he defo had a better handle on things than Cowen did

I take it we're talking about the same "If I have it I'll spend it" McCreevy, the economy was left way out of balance in 2004 when McC was given the shove, McC was the one who threw around the cash while cutting income tax moving the reliance onto unhealthy stamp duties, decentralization was an expensive joke, but yeah he was better than Biffo however so would my cat have been.
On saying that I was a fan of his tax individualisation , thought it was put an end to a crazy system

lmimmfn

Tipp Man wrote: »

A very wise man, if there were more like you around we might not be in the mess we are in

cheers but( and without sounding like some self riteous twat ) it seriously seemed like common knowledge in 2001/2002 that there was a huge crash coming( ok definately not as bad as it has been ), everything became so hugely overvalued requiring the nation to become credit monkeys and requiring higher salaries to fund the loans making us hugely uncompetitive.
That would be ok if our export market was absolutely huge but its not.

As an example of how unsustainable it was and that it wasnt just in cities where everything went crazy, in Donegal land prices were going from 10,000 euro per 1/4 acre to 40,000/50,000 euro in 10 years, small farmers with a few acres became hugely wealthy in just a few years, their kids running around with new flash cars, meanwhile they and the rest of the community realised they couldnt afford to buy a site for themselves any longer without getting huge mortgages.

It really is unfortunate that a lot of people thought the good times would go on forever. The only ones that made money out of the whole thing is the banks( and some developers ) and now they have the gall to get us to bail them out.
The banks were making money on loans, the higher the loan the more risk but the more money they would make. If A buys a gouse for 100,00euro with a 10,000euro deposit then sells to B for 150,000, B has a deposit of 15,000euro but now needs a 135,000euro deposit. B sells to C for 200,000 but C needs a 180,000euro deposit. More and more credit from the banks ment more and more profit for them.
The whole mess wasnt created by the banks it was created by the people and irresponsible borrowing and not realising the value of money, so i guess we only have ourselves to blame, the people can get themselves out of this mess but not if NAMA happens( huge taxes for a very long time requiring that salaries have to stay high and very little money to fuel the economy ).

On the SSIA subject though, i do think it was a great idea at the time( to cool a superheated economy ) but they should have made sure that not all of them could have been cashed in at the same time, i.e. there should have been better incentives to keep your cash in the bank. In a normal country it would have been much better to increases taxes to prevent the economy overheating, however its ireland, all taxes and government revenue goes into one big pot( rather than road tax being exclusively for roads etc. ) so if the ended up with loads of cash they just find some stupid way to waste it.