Ouch, thats some expensive fluid...

Voodoomelon

I've been literally looking all over the world for this auto transmission fluid or a suitable replacement and came up with nothing, it's impossible to find anywhere. Anywhere that is except a BMW dealer and even then they only have it in 20 litre drums and won't pour it off for you.

There's only one or two other BMW approved ATFs for my ZF box and even them I couldn't get my hands on anywhere in Europe.





So I bit the bullet. Dealers in the north, which are my first call usually as they are 25% cheaper, wouldn't split the 20 litre drums. Rang ahead to BMW Kells and then made the trip from Dundalk.

€250 for 8 litres. :eek: And I got him to throw in the other 2 left in the drum, 10 litres in total. Whatever I don't use i'll stick up on eBay. That's a serious whack of dough...

P.S. Blonde receptionist, my word!

Volvoboy

:eek: Didnt think BMW would charge that much! Why is this fluid so expensive / hard to get?

Is it running low or is it just due a change?

ismynametoolong

Thats Bull a good dexron 3 meets and exceeds the requirements for all BMW ATs . have used and changed plenty and never had a problem ,

Matt Simis

Im also not planning on using the BMW OEM fluid (as its been way superceeded). Anyone know where I can get Dexron IV (4) level ATF in Ireland? Its a GM fluid originally (like all Dexron specs), so maybe Opel dealers?

Dexron IV vs III wrote:

Only 2005 and prior models that currently use DEXRON®-III may use DEXRON®-VI as a replacement.
All 2006 and future models that use DEXRON®-VI are to be serviced with DEXRON®-VI fluid only.
DEXRON®-VI is an improvement over DEXRON®-III in the following area:
DEXRON®-VI
Extended Factory Fill For Life
160,000 km (100,000 mi) For Cars and Light Duty Trucks*
80,000 km (50,000 mi) (Severe Use) For Cars and Light Duty Trucks*
Clutch Friction Stability Improved 100%
Clutch Durability Due To Fluid Improved 120%
Oil Film Thickness Increased 20%
Fluid Oxidation Improved 100%
Foam/Aeration Improved 150%
Shear Stability Improved 200%

On top of that its got improved cold performance.

galwaytt

You are completely mad.

There is no way that that is the only only for that transmission - look how old it is on the label ffs.

JHMEG

€250 for 8 litres is €31.25 per litre:eek:

I recently paid €12.12 incl VAT per litre for Honda ATF-Z1, which is sold in 1L bottles.

Probably as good, if not better, but does not have any Dexron stuff on the label.

Voodoomelon

Id agree that there probably are other fluids that are the same spec, but i wanted to use the exact same fuid that i already have. These gearboxes are known for failing after a fluid swap with high mileage and mixing brands of fluid isnt something i wanted to throw in the mix.

This is purely preventative maintenance and i dont want to wait any longer to do the swap, ive already done 2k miles while looking for the fluid. Also if you look at the spec of the Esso fluid, its incredibly high quality specialised stuff. If i used any other fluiid and my box packed in, i didnt want to be left wondering if it was something i did or the fluid used. Eur250 for fluid or eur5000 for a new box, no contest.

reverandkenjami

Bloody helll!! They seen you coming mate!! :eek: That oil is superceded to Dexron VI and is available in 4 litre bottles in a BMW dealer for €60 under part number 83220397114. Dexron III is still available too in 1 litre bottles for about €12

nialler

Did you call conway transmissions in walkinstown, he opened up, inspected my gearbox, emptied and replaced the ATF on my s-class for €100. Then again he did quote me €1800 for a reconditioned gearbox as my one was on it's way, still going strong 4 years later (touch wood).

Voodoomelon

nialler wrote: »

Did you call conway transmissions in walkinstown, he opened up, inspected my gearbox, emptied and replaced the ATF on my s-class for €100. Then again he did quote me €1800 for a reconditioned gearbox as my one was on it's way, still going strong 4 years later (touch wood).

Thats a brilliant price for both. I didnt look anywhere for prices as its something i want to do myself. Ill prob use about eur150 of the fluid and sell the rest. Im also replacing the filter, gasket and plugs with genuine ZF kit.

unkel

Voodoomelon wrote: »

These gearboxes are known for failing after a fluid swap with high mileage

Indeed. You're taking a big gamble changing the oil - I hope it works out for ya. After quite some research into mainly US E38 owners experiences (they like their engine oil changes over there), I decided to go with the "don't change if the box works fine" brigade. It was still silky smooth at 141k miles when the car left me...

Voodoomelon

Yup, i expect it to go smoothly. ZF recommend fluid changes every 80k miles so i'm right on time. Any failures are usually in the very high mileage cars.

unkel

Good luck

Matt Simis

reverandkenjami wrote: »

Bloody helll!! They seen you coming mate!! :eek: That oil is superceded to Dexron VI and is available in 4 litre bottles in a BMW dealer for €60 under part number 83220397114. Dexron III is still available too in 1 litre bottles for about €12

Excellent info!
Here is a comparison between Dexron III and VI...
http://www.sandyblogs.com/techlink/2009/05/dexron-vi.html

anyone know how Dexron IV compares to VI (and where is Dexron V!?), they both seemed to be introduced at the same time and both designed for new and older vehicles which were using earlier Dexron blends.

Voodoomelon

Even in that link, its important to note the following:

"This means that each manufacturer must tailor their transmission fluid requirements to meet the needs of their own transmissions. And a fluid may cause entirely different performance when installed into transmissions of different designs."

Part of the reason I went with the original fluid. Also, BMW will use whatever fluid that was originally in the box when doing a transmission service; for example they wouldn't mix my fluid with Dexron VI. Hence the reason they have the LT 71141 even in stock, thats what the guy told me.

Matt Simis

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Even in that link, its important to note the following:

"This means that each manufacturer must tailor their transmission fluid requirements to meet the needs of their own transmissions. And a fluid may cause entirely different performance when installed into transmissions of different designs."

Part of the reason I went with the original fluid. Also, BMW will use whatever fluid that was originally in the box when doing a transmission service; for example they wouldn't mix my fluid with Dexron VI. Hence the reason they have the LT 71141 even in stock, thats what the guy told me.

Thats a standard disclaimer for legal reasons. It doesnt change the fact that Dexron VI was designed to be backwards compatible with Dexron III and is considerably better in all test metrics. There isnt a mixing problem if you use Dexron VI as the flushing fluid, as outlined in the link. You choice of fluid is safe and you are right on the ball timewise, but it simply isnt the best fluid, its at least 2 generations outclassed.


Incidentially Dexron VI isnt useful for me, I found its not recommended for Manual boxes, Dexron IV (impossible to find) is. What Im trying to source now is this cocktail:
http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_techtip/techtips/tranny_rattle.htm
[I have a flywheel rattle problem]

1 quart bottle of Redline 75W140NS Gear Oil. ( click here to order ) The "NS" oils have no friction modifiers, thus does not increase shifting effort. From the Redline information about the gear oil: "a GL-5 which does not contain the friction modifiers for limited-slip hypoid differentials. This makes the transmission synchronizers come to equal speeds more quickly, allowing faster shifting and much easier low-temperature shifting."

and...

1 quart bottle of Redline D4 Synthetic ATF. ( click here to order ) "D4 ATF is designed to satisfy the improved low-temperature requirements which will be in the new Dexron IV specification, and the improved shear-stability requirements which will be part of the new Mercon specifications. The balanced frictional characteristics provide smooth and consistent shifts for extended drain intervals. Provides improved shifting in cold weather."

galwaytt

Voodoomelon wrote: »

... Also, BMW will use whatever fluid that was originally in the box when doing a transmission service; for example they wouldn't mix my fluid with Dexron VI. Hence the reason they have the LT 71141 even in stock, thats what the guy told me.

...LOL, if you believe that, you'll believe anything. Do you honestly expect a dealer to leave a car up on a lift whilst he trolls the world looking for 'ATF' ?? Not on your nelly. Unless, of course, you're happy to pay €100 for everyhour it's up there, until the Nirvana Fluid arrives at the door.....

unkel

Voodoomelon wrote: »

BMW will use whatever fluid that was originally in the box when doing a transmission service

Maybe I'm wrong, but I was getting the impression that BMW dealers refuse to do an oil change service on the E38 auto tran box?

Voodoomelon

galwaytt wrote: »

...LOL, if you believe that, you'll believe anything. Do you honestly expect a dealer to leave a car up on a lift whilst he trolls the world looking for 'ATF' ?? Not on your nelly. Unless, of course, you're happy to pay €100 for everyhour it's up there, until the Nirvana Fluid arrives at the door.....

I expect them to use the same fluid that was originally in the box, especially with older autos, which they do. Kells share the Esso LT 71141 fluid with Joe Duffy, as it comes in either 20 litre or 205 litre drums and they only use it for these boxes, making it easier to get through it quicker.

Voodoomelon

unkel wrote: »

Maybe I'm wrong, but I was getting the impression that BMW dealers refuse to do an oil change service on the E38 auto tran box?

They backtracked a few years ago and changed it to 100,000 mile fluid, instead of lifetime fluid.

JHMEG

Why did this guy get 20L of the Esso stuff for £4.25 a litre, and the OP had to pay over 30 quid?

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=886214

No offence, but I'm thinking of this, one of my favourite TV shows

Interesting threads all the same.

Voodoomelon

Well like the guy on bimmerforums said, the dealer price is pretty much the same as what I paid, difference is he managed to get hold of it elsewhere, albeit 2 years ago.

I'm after discovering that VW sell the same stuff for cheaper in the US, I wonder if its the same story here.