Lisbon Treaty No. 3?

CyrildoSquirrel

If the Lisbon Treaty is passed tonight, do you think there's a chance, if someone challenged it, that there could be a third referendum?

Like the way they forced us to have a second referendum when they didn't get the answer they were looking for the first time, do you think they would allow a third vote if anyone were to challenge a "yes" result?

ei.sdraob

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055697102


vote in Sinn Fein in next elections

once they are in power

get them to get us to vote on Lisbon



see democracy

prinz

Unlikely. By the way nobody "forced" us to have a second one. It has been done before :rolleyes:

USE

CyrildoSquirrel wrote: »

If the Lisbon Treaty is passed tonight, do you think there's a chance, if someone challenged it, that there could be a third referendum?

How many times your parliament vote on the already passed law?

Like the way they forced us to have a second referendum when they didn't get the answer they were looking for the first time <...>

The conditions of the referendum have been changed to better reflect the concerns of Irish people. Therefore this referendum is totally legitimate, reasonabled, democratic and valid.

Also an opportunity to tell your opinion can't be interpreted as enforcement. Because you have a right to vote however you wish to (e.g. you can vote 'No' as much times as you wish independent of the number of referendums) and you even don't must to participate in the referendum.

starbelgrade

I really hope not - the moratorium on dicsussing Lisbon in the media over the last few days was a breath of fresh air... If I have to suffer that again, I don't know what I'll do.

(Possibly vote yes this time, just to shut them up!)

namloc1980

Get Sinn Fein, Socialists, Communists into power and they would then be able to re run it.

ei.sdraob

namloc1980 wrote: »

Get Sinn Fein, Socialists, Communists into power and they would then be able to re run it.

once the commies are in power there be no more voting

Ireland would be like Cuba then, minus the sun

metrovelvet

I think you could argue problems with voting as I know of a few people who could not vote, even though they were citizens because they were not born here, including people from the North and there are British people residing here who were allowed to vote.

namloc1980

ei.sdraob wrote: »

once the commies are in power there be no more voting

Ireland would be like Cuba then, minus the sun

oh yeah...and that'd be undemocratic....but shur we're told Lisbon 2 is 'undemocratic' as it is, so maybe the Commies are already here :eek:

USE

namloc1980 wrote: »

oh yeah...and that'd be undemocratic....but shur we're told Lisbon 2 is 'undemocratic' as it is, so maybe the Commies are already here :eek:

If you want an example of what commies think about the Treaty of Lisbon, read an article about Vaclav Klaus in Wiki Especially this section:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A1clav_Klaus#Relationship_with_communists

Hydrosylator

Honestly?

I don't think there's be a third referendum, no.
The EU government has to be to be seen to respect whatever democracy it tolerates.

utick

sure why not, the main reason it was rerun last time was people not understanding it, seeing as how most people think its about the economy it would appear they still dont understand the treaty, also the low turnout would be an acceptable reason to rerun it.

CyrildoSquirrel

utick wrote: »

sure why not, the main reason it was rerun last time was people not understanding it, seeing as how most people think its about the economy it would appear they still dont understand the treaty, also the low turnout would be an acceptable reason to rerun it.

Unfortunately that's the case. They've scared the people to their wits ends to try to make sure they get what they want.

marbar

CyrildoSquirrel wrote: »

Unfortunately that's the case. They've scared the people to their wits ends to try to make sure they get what they want.

yup. only one side of the argument peddled fear

prinz

CyrildoSquirrel wrote: »

Unfortunately that's the case. They've scared the people to their wits ends to try to make sure they get what they want.

I voted yes and it had nothing to do with the recession or the economy

utick

marbar wrote: »

yup. only one side of the argument peddled fear

no, both sides peddled fear surely this is as good a reason for a third referendum as any reason given to run it a second time

meglome

utick wrote: »

no, both sides peddled fear surely this is as good a reason for a third referendum as any reason given to run it a second time

So as long as they government want to re-run the vote, all you need to do is get Sinn Fein elected.

And guys it just hurts my brain that No campaigners are accusing others of peddling fear.

utick

meglome wrote: »

So as long as they government want to re-run the vote, QUOTE]

ah so there it is the only reason we reran it was because fine fail didnt get there way

hatrickpatrick

ei.sdraob wrote: »

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055697102


vote in Sinn Fein in next elections

once they are in power

get them to get us to vote on Lisbon



see democracy

Worst. Strawman. Evar. As well as being another example of how this obsession with ONLY representative democracy is so unbelievably ridiculous...

prinz

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Worst. Strawman. Evar. As well as being another example of how this obsession with ONLY representative democracy is so unbelievably ridiculous...

It's not a strawman. Any government can propose an amendment to be put to the people. So if there is an anti-Lisbon government voted in we could be looking at Lisbon III. It's just fact.

meglome

utick wrote: »

ah so there it is the only reason we reran it was because fine fail didnt get there way

Twist it any way you like. The government of the day get to call elections, that's the law. Campaign to have it changed if you don't like it.

ei.sdraob

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Worst. Strawman. Evar. As well as being another example of how this obsession with ONLY representative democracy is so unbelievably ridiculous...

how is it a strawman?

are there any other mainstream parties who oppose Lisbon and reverently anti EU

SF stand alone

and what do you mean obsession? please do tell how many countries on this planet have representative democracies compared to number with direct democracies

Bob_Harris

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

Not one Yes voter I've encountered has any clue about the Treaty.

Their reasons for voting Yes?

Europe has been good to us
I want to stay in Europe
Europe has been good for women
I'd prefer not to upset the rest of Europe

This attitude that should automatically vote Yes because "Europe has been good to us in the past" is absolute nonsense.

Typical fickle and back-boneless Paddies were simply lured into a Yes vote by the promise of jobs and economic recovery.

Now what we need is a carefully worded questionnaire to analyse why the Yes voters voted Yes so we can see their stupid reasons and can get a third vote.

That would be true Democracy.

8-10

Bob_Harris wrote: »

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

Not one Yes voter I've encountered has any clue about the Treaty.

I'm a YES voter. I know it pretty damn well.

Very few (can't honestly say all) NO voters I've met have had a clue. Bizarre huh?

I too (like 'prinz' I think said) voted YES for reasons other than the recession or economy.

The reason for The Lisbon Treaty in the first place, has a lot to do with the accession states resulting from Nice and the need for streamlining the decision making process to deal with 27 (and more) states rather than 6/12/15 in the past. It is honestly ASTONISHING how many people don't seem to realise the overall purpose of the Treaty. I'm sure nearly all voters, from both sides, want the EU to work more efficiently. I just can't see what the NO side want to do? Do ye wanna continue with the current system? If it fails do you want another treaty? What do you want for Europe? You realise Ireland has disproportionate influence on the EU as it is? Even if Lisbon passes Ireland will have 1 MEP per 350,000 of population, Germany will have 1 MEP per 850,000 of population. And we're the one's complaining this is undemocratic and unfair??????????? We retain 12 MEP's, Germany's get reduced by 3.

Poor Germany. But they're obviously OK with it, with Ireland's increased ratio of MEP's than them (plus Malta don't forget, even better ratio after Lisbon), because they ratified it.

Seriously! I really want to know the ideal outcome for the NO voters. Do they want the EU to continue running as it is? Is it as efficient as possible? Do NO people want more accession states? How will they manage it?

We're Europeans, not Irish citizens, with regard to this referendum. We've already got concessions and a disproportionate influence in Europe in terms of population. We need to approach an EU Treaty with regards to the benefits to the EU, not the benefits to Ireland. That's the whole point of being in the union. A lot of voters are being selfish and only thinking of one state out of 27. If that's the case, you're 100% anti-European.

Sparks

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Ireland would be like Cuba then, minus the sun

And minus the world-leading biotech industry and magnificent healthcare system, one presumes...

Sparks

meglome wrote: »

The government of the day get to call elections, that's the law. Campaign to have it changed if you don't like it.

There appears to be a built-in flaw in that plan...

prinz

Sparks wrote: »

And minus the world-leading biotech industry and magnificent healthcare system, one presumes...

If all of us lived in marginally above third world conditions we could afford a great healthcare system too :rolleyes:

Sparks

prinz wrote: »

If all of us lived in marginally above third world conditions we could afford a great healthcare system too :rolleyes:

Well, get us blockaded by our nearest trading neighbour and cut off our oil supplies and lets find out

prinz

Sparks wrote: »

Well, get us blockaded by our nearest trading neighbour and cut off our oil supplies and lets find out

Touché

Neamhshuntasach

Well nothing to do with me or or really caring too much. but i have a friend who was conducting an exit poll and also a poll based on why they whey voted which particular way. While he said there were a good few people who still voted now based on nuetrality and other stupid reason. There were a lot who said that the economy would diappear. So if it turns out that a majority of people voted yes for wrong reasons. Wll there be a third referendum?

dloob

prinz wrote: »

If all of us lived in marginally above third world conditions we could afford a great healthcare system too :rolleyes:

I always wondered why if Cuba is such a workers paradise, people are willing to risk their lifes trying to escape to the US.