Manchester United V Sunderland

Mr.Nice Guy

LZ5by5 wrote: »

The man single handedly calmed the storm of Liverpool hammering Man U at OT, coming up with vital goals against Villa and Spurs just to name two games. I don't think it is fair to diminish his influence.

Single-handedly? Come on. As I recall it was mainly Rooney who annihilated Spurs down the left. Yes the Villa game I'll agree he was immense but a certain sub had a bit to do in order to get the winner.

The likes of Vidic and Berba also chipped in with late goals last season to grind out narrow victories.

Ronaldo was obviously a vital ingredient in United winning the league but let's not make out he was the only ingredient.

Handsome Bob

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Single-handedly? Come on. As I recall it was mainly Rooney who annihilated Spurs down the left. Yes the Villa game I'll agree he was immense but a certain sub had a bit to do in order to get the winner.

Spurs bottled it the second Ronaldo put the penalty in the back of the net, they absolutely folded. As for the Villa game, Macheda only had the luxury of scoring the winner thanks to Ronaldo's brace.

The likes of Vidic and Berba also chipped in with late goals last season to grind out narrow victories.

You're right, but to the best of my knowledge, when Liverpool were giving you a genuine scare in close season, it was Ronaldo's goals that steadied the ship and brought the league on home.

Ronaldo was obviously a vital ingredient in United winning the league but let's not make out he was the only ingredient.

Not the only ingredient, but undoubtedly the most vital.

SlickRic

congratulations to both teams on an absorbing game of football.

sunderland were as good as Utd were bad in that first half. Utd didn't have a moment's rest with Cattermole in the middle, with reid and malbranque providing reliable outlets and foundations for both relieving pressure, and also some nice periods of possession football.

scholes was shocking. it was a little scary to see him so below the level required; especially as he was so effective against Stoke.

the second half was great for the neutral. utd hit back with one of their first real moments of quality with a wonderful berbatov moment. i thought sunderland would crumble, but they didn't, and all credit to them.

foster is a liability, and thus sunderland got their second.

we got what we all expected with a last-minute utd goal. the good only thing for us fans looking for a utd slip-up was that it was merely to equalise.

what came out of this game for me was:

1) foster, again, is a liability.

2) nani should not be getting in that team.

3) if fletcher isn't on form, like the first half today, the utd midfield is fragile.

4) sunderland are top-10 material...and that strike force is going to get them out of a few games even when they don't play well.

5) andy reid should be called up to....actually i'm not going to start that debate again

Pro. F

Jaysus there's a lot of shìte being talked on this thread.

United just weren't at the races at all today. Sunderland played very well and bravely too. And yet we still got a 2-2 draw. Every team has an off day now and again however - and you would think this is obvious but some people don't seem to be aware - league winning teams are the ones who get the results on the bad days. I'm just as happy with a scrappy draw when we play poorly like this, in the odd game, as i am with a convincing win that we expect. At this stage of the season we've already seen a bit of everything from United and i'm starting to feel very confident about our chances come May.


I thought Berbatov wasn't at it in the first half but he started to flow in the second. Overall today he wasn't as at his best but he did ok imo and, to be fair to him, his goal was a cracker.

Rooney was well below his standard today imo. He was still busy and dangerous but by his usual standards he had a poor game. I'd say having the sprog due soon is playing on his mind a bit.

I was happy with the back four overall. Foster on the other hand fooked us up royally. I'm very disappointed with him tbh. He's been given a great run of games by Fergie but he just keeps making howlers.

Wellbeck wasn't very impressive today but i wouldn't expect too much from him just yet expecially when playing out wide.

People who are giving out about Nani today just aren't able to judge him objectively imo. He was a bit poor in the first half, just like the rest of the midfield, but as the game wore on he got much better. When we were pressuring their box Nani put in quality cross after cross from dead balls and open play. He showed what he can do when his confidence is up.

Just watching Highlights on MOTD now.

monkey9

Sherifu wrote: »

He dragged United kicking and screaming through a fair few games last season. No doubt he's missed.

Jaysus, there could be numerous answers to this if it were a question. Rob Styles. Howard Webb. Ronaldo!!!

One thing i noticed today with the line ups was that the Utd Squad is pretty average!! Liverpool get stick for having a weak squad, but so do Utd.
The league is getting more and more competitive and i think that the big four are gonna lose a lot more points this season. The final champions points total could be fairly low!! Sunderland are decent enough and i'm sure they'll take points off the big four again somewhere along the line this season

Sherifu

monkey9 wrote: »

The league is getting more and more competitive and i think that the big four are gonna lose a lot more points this season. The final champions points total could be fairly low!! Sunderland are decent enough and i'm sure they'll take points off the big four again somewhere along the line this season

That remains to be seen, but with the goals per game this season so far up to 2.97(2.48 last season) it's more entertaining and i've really been enjoying the first few weeks. If this is the way it's heading i've no complaints.

TonyD79

monkey9 wrote: »

Jaysus, there could be numerous answers to this if it were a question. Rob Styles. Howard Webb. Ronaldo!!!

One thing i noticed today with the line ups was that the Utd Squad is pretty average!! Liverpool get stick for having a weak squad, but so do Utd.
The league is getting more and more competitive and i think that the big four are gonna lose a lot more points this season. The final champions points total could be fairly low!! Sunderland are decent enough and i'm sure they'll take points off the big four again somewhere along the line this season

LoL

Most pundits agree that the difference between united and the other teams in the top four is their strength in depth. It might not be world class but weak? Apart from Rooney and VDS they have 2/3 players for every postion which does the job over all. 60 Million is sitting in the bank for that very reason

kippy

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

With regards to Ronaldo let's not forget this time last year he was, if anything, quite the liability to United. He was getting sent off for daft reasons, giving stick to fans etc. He generally looking quite pissed off that he was there and not at Madrid. It took him a little while to get his arse into gear and get going.

United just tend to start seasons in quite a sluggish manner.

Wasnt he just back from a fairly serious operation on his heel...........

Some people have very short memories. Ronaldo was THE main reason United achieved so much in the past few years.

Mr.Nice Guy

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Spurs bottled it the second Ronaldo put the penalty in the back of the net, they absolutely folded. As for the Villa game, Macheda only had the luxury of scoring the winner thanks to Ronaldo's brace.

Spurs would have folded with or without the Ronaldo penalty I would say. Besides, Ronaldo didn't win the peno and had he not been there I'm sure Rooney would have tucked it away if he'd had to. As for the Villa game, yes you are correct on that but all I'm saying is Macheda struck the winner in the dying seconds. It wasn't a Ronaldo hat-trick that clinched the 3 points. Even world class players need their teammates at times.

LZ5by5 wrote:

You're right, but to the best of my knowledge, when Liverpool were giving you a genuine scare in close season, it was Ronaldo's goals that steadied the ship and brought the league on home.

Not the only ingredient, but undoubtedly the most vital.

I think that's debatable. It could be argued for example Macheda's goals steadied the ship after the Liverpool scare.

Kippy wrote:

Wasnt he just back from a fairly serious operation on his heel...........

Some people have very short memories. Ronaldo was THE main reason United achieved so much in the past few years.

Was the heel op fairly serious? And how does that justify the issues with his questionable temperament?

Fair enough Ronaldo may have been the main reason for United's ahcievement but he was not the ONLY reason. A good example of that would be the Champions League Final win in 2008. While he got the goal during the 90 minutes of play, he missed a vital penalty kick in the shoot-out. He admitted himself afterwards that his teammates had saved the day.

For the record here is a rundown of United's run-in after the 1-4 Liverpool defeat:

21 March 2009 Fulham A 0 – 2

5 April 2009 Aston Villa H 3 – 2 Ronaldo (2) 13', 81', Macheda 90+3'

11 April 2009 Sunderland A 2 – 1 Scholes 19', Macheda 75'

22 April 2009 Portsmouth H 2 – 0 Rooney 9', Carrick 82'

25 April 2009 Tottenham Hotspur H 5 – 2 Ronaldo (2) 56' (pen.), 68', Rooney (2) 67', 71', Berbatov 79'

2 May 2009 Middlesbrough A 2 – 0 Giggs 25', Park 51'

10 May 2009 Manchester City H 2 – 0 Ronaldo 17', Tévez 45'

13 May 2009 Wigan Athletic A 2 – 1 Tévez 61', Carrick 86'

16 May 2009 Arsenal H 0 – 0

24 May 2009 Hull City A 1 – 0 Gibson 24'

So while he undoubtedly made a substantial contribution to United's victorious run-in, he was by no means dragging the team by the scruff of the neck, winning games single-handedly etc. It was a TEAM effort.

kryogen

there is no point in anyone trying to take away from Ronaldo that he was the main reason that we won trophies for the last 3 years, honestly your just kidding yourselves if you think otherwise, the man basically guarantees your thereabouts at the end of a league campaign each year by the sheer amount of goals he will score or create against the weaker teams in the league alone

the united team is much weaker without him, of course it is but the united team will rise again and you have to remember that the team was set up around ronaldo for the past 4 years, it takes a little time getting used to a new sysem or a new gameplan rather then, give the ball to ronnie and let him destroy them! over simplified yes, but valid i feel

once the team adjusts to the new players and new way of winning games then results will follow, i would consider us to be in a mini transitional period and am not expecting massive success this season but i am encouraged by the fact that we are almost through tot the knock outs in europe and top of the league without playing particularly well

one other point, depending on who you talk to man united have been playing in 1st or 2nd gear from as far back as anywhere between 1 and 4 years now and we have been getting results so it cant be that bad can it? well it probably can get a lot worse but hopefully they will find a groove and this will be just one of those unavoidable instances where the team drops points over the course of a season

TonyD79

monkey9 wrote: »

Jaysus, there could be numerous answers to this if it were a question. Rob Styles. Howard Webb. Ronaldo!!!

One thing i noticed today with the line ups was that the Utd Squad is pretty average!! Liverpool get stick for having a weak squad, but so do Utd.
The league is getting more and more competitive and i think that the big four are gonna lose a lot more points this season. The final champions points total could be fairly low!! Sunderland are decent enough and i'm sure they'll take points off the big four again somewhere along the line this season

Uniteds bench yesterday Kuszczak: Polish International , Anderson: Brazilian (18 mil) International Ferdinand(30mil),Brown & Carrick( 16mil)- England Internationals ,Valencia 18 million & fabio- highly rated brazilian youngster. Over £50 million worth of talent on the bench there.......prettay prettay average!!!!

internelligent

TonyD79 wrote: »

Uniteds bench yesterday Kuszczak: Polish International , Anderson: Brazilian (18 mil) International Ferdinand(30mil),Brown & Carrick( 16mil)- England Internationals ,Valencia 18 million & fabio- highly rated brazilian youngster. Over £50 million worth of talent on the bench there.......prettay prettay average!!!!

price paid does not equal talent of player.

Hank Scorpio

valencia has made a really poor start to his utd career, but if nani is able to hang around for 3 seasons playing terrible, he shouldnt worry. :rolleyes:

Pro. F

kryogen wrote: »

once the team adjusts to the new players and new way of winning games then results will follow, i would consider us to be in a mini transitional period and am not expecting massive success this season but i am encouraged by the fact that we are almost through tot the knock outs in europe and top of the league without playing particularly well

In the league we have put in good performances so far this season. Against Spurs and City (aside from goal keeper abhorrations) we played very well. Our results are very good, it's been one of our best starts to the league in years.

Like you, I was expecting a transitional period with moderate success for this season (which can still mean having a chance to win the league tbh) but so far the results and performances have exceeded that imo.

I think the real test for this team will come when Berbatov or Rooney are out injured for a while. Then we'll see how good our squad is.

lordgoat

Watched the match yesterday. Imo Foster cost us the win. He had once cross to deal with in the second half he screwed up. Apart from that Sunderland in the second half kept the ball well but never really threatened from what i can remember. United were very poor i do think they were coming back into it, playing well scored only for a goal keeping error to knock the wind out of the sails.

Valencia in my opinion has been worse than Nani this year. In the second half today i thought Nani's delivery was top notch, he put in 4 corners in the last minutes of the game and the were all great deliveries when we needed them. If he keeps that up i'll be happy.

In the first half i thought the whole team was poor, it wold be particularly harsh to single out the strikers the got little service, the service they did get were long high balls - not what rooney and berba need.

All in all, i was happy with a draw if Sunderland keep their first team fit they'll give any team a good game.

lordgoat

lordgoat wrote: »

In the second half today i thought Nani's delivery was top notch, he put in 4 corners in the last minutes of the game and the were all great deliveries when we needed them. If he keeps that up i'll be happy.

Ffs. He put in great corners, big fcuking wow. I'm sure the £17m or so splashed out for him wasn't for a good corner taker.

At least some united fans can see that the guy just isn't good enough and don't spout BS posts like the one above.

lordgoat

rarnes1 wrote: »

Ffs. He put in great corners, big fcuking wow. I'm sure the £17m or so splashed out for him wasn't for a good corner taker.

At least some united fans can see that the guy just isn't good enough and don't spout BS posts like the one above.

No his over link up play with full backs was good, his traking back was good and his passing was good, he was no worse than anyone else in the united team first half. You clearly a) didn't watch the match or b) don't have a clue about how to play on the wing. Have a wander into the united thread and you'll see more people my side of this argument than your poor informed one.

Also go back and have a read over what i said. I never said he was good enough or not good enough, i said i'd give him til the end of the season and judge him then. (Edit, apoligies - i said this in the usual united thread)

Hopefully he'll have another winners medal or two to add to his already impressive collection.

Nalz

LOL...How many "Come on who's playing fluckin United" and "200 gazillion hours of extra time plus plus" comments were in this thread!

Team looked dead, and Sunderland well deserved at least a draw. Bent to be everyones FPL team come the next gameweek!

Nani's distribution, decision making and final ball for the first 60mins was shocking. So much talent, its like there's some link to his brain missing. Frustrating player to watch.