Tallys & Results in the morning.

bauderline · 03-10-2009 11:00am

PaulieD wrote: »

And savage cuts in the public sector, more job losses, mortgage defaults etc etc. The idiots think by voting Yes everything will go back to 2004-2007. More SUVs, property price rises, more sun holidays.

They have been sold a pup, yet again. This will be an absolute disaster for the country, we were swindled over Nice, but we aint seen nothing yet.

You REALLY are full of it aren't you ? You remind me of an angry wasp... where did I put my vaspona !?

Sully · 03-10-2009 11:01am

Just completed my tally in Waterford. Looking very likely it will be passed anyway!

ParkRunner · 03-10-2009 11:02am

Looks like the whole of Europe has come to standstill because we voted yes

http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/1003/aviation.html

Steviemak · 03-10-2009 11:07am

PaulieD wrote: »

The flag should be at half mast. The patriot dead will be turning in their graves. Shame on the traitors. They are no better than Castle Catholics. Traitors to the Irish nation. Quislings each and every one of you.

Got a problem with democracy much?

Flamed Diving · 03-10-2009 11:10am

(11.05am) Libertas leader Declan Ganley has said the result marks a 'very convincing win' for the Yes camp.

http://www.rte.ie/news/features/lisbontreaty/

bauderline · 03-10-2009 11:12am

Well if you are feeling down about the result.... have a butchers at this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-Xvy1r4Pm8&NR=1

actually this one is more fitting.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yhN1IDLQjo&feature=related

PaulieD · 03-10-2009 11:15am

Steviemak wrote: »

Got a problem with democracy much?

Not at all, you? Nice 1 and Nice 2, Lisbon 1 and Lisbon 2. Is that democratic?

PaulieD · 03-10-2009 11:16am

bauderline wrote: »

You REALLY are full of it aren't you ? You remind me of an angry wasp... where did I put my vaspona !?

You stung yourself.

namloc1980 · 03-10-2009 11:17am

PaulieD wrote: »

Not at all, you? Nice 1 and Nice 2, Lisbon 1 and Lisbon 2. Is that democratic?

Divorce 1 and 2, Abortion how many times?, abolish PR voting 1 and 2. It is all democratic

bauderline · 03-10-2009 11:18am

PaulieD wrote: »

Not at all, you? Nice 1 and Nice 2, Lisbon 1 and Lisbon 2. Is that democratic?

People have the DEMOCRATIC right to change their mind. People have the DEMOCRATIC right to give a chance to express that change of mind. That is true democracy....

PaulieD · 03-10-2009 11:20am

namloc1980 wrote: »

Divorce 1 and 2, Abortion how many times?, abolish PR voting 1 and 2. It is all democratic

From RTE. "I voted Yes cause I hope we get jobs out of it." "I voted Yes for infrastructure." "I voted Yes for EEC money." "I voted Yes to be with europe."

All informed voters, hmm? Maybe we shall hold another referendum as the people were obviously misinformed. Just like last time.

Agent J · 03-10-2009 11:21am

namloc1980 wrote: »

Divorce 1 and 2, Abortion how many times?, abolish PR voting 1 and 2. It is all democratic

Compare the differences in times between those referenda. It is not the same as a 16 month turn around because the people voted the wrong way the first time.

cornbb · 03-10-2009 11:22am

Radio 1 just said Declan Ganley has arrived at the RDS. Hoping for an interview soon. Let's hope he p*sses off properly and permanently after today.

Euro_Kraut · 03-10-2009 11:27am

Ganley's lost his 'home' area Brairfield near Abbeyknockmoy! They had a 66% Yes vote.

turgon · 03-10-2009 11:30am

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Ganley's lost his 'home' area Brairfield near Abbeyknockmoy! They had a 66% Yes vote.

237 votes to 107 asfaik. Thats nearly 70% Yes.

turgon · 03-10-2009 11:32am

PaulieD wrote: »

From RTE. "I voted Yes cause I hope we get jobs out of it." "I voted Yes for infrastructure." "I voted Yes for EEC money." "I voted Yes to be with europe."

"I voted No, we fought for our freedom in 1916 whats the point in that?"
"I voted No because we dont have cancer services"

Really, giving out about voter ignorance is a bit much if your on the No side.

Sam Vimes · 03-10-2009 11:32am

PaulieD wrote: »

Not at all, you? Nice 1 and Nice 2, Lisbon 1 and Lisbon 2. Is that democratic?

Yes the people gave their answer both times. If you see democracy as "NO MEANS NO" then it's not democratic but that's not how democracy works. It works through negotiations, compromise and very importantly, giving people the opportunity to change their minds. It's why we have a general election every 5 years

Agent J · 03-10-2009 11:36am

Sam Vimes wrote: »

Yes the people gave their answer both times. If you see democracy as "NO MEANS NO" then it's not democratic but that's not how democracy works. It works through negotiations, compromise and very importantly, giving people the opportunity to change their minds. It's why we have a general election every 5 years

See, therein lies the rub.

5 years as opposed to 16 months between the Lisbon/Nice Referenda.

I'm all for democracy but there is a difference between asking people again after a reasonable period has passed compared to the Mrs Doyle version

"Are you sure you wont vote yes?" "Go on, Go on, Go On.."

Steviemak · 03-10-2009 11:36am

PaulieD wrote: »

Not at all, you? Nice 1 and Nice 2, Lisbon 1 and Lisbon 2. Is that democratic?

Why don't you vote in an anti eu government and you can have your third vote. Isn't democracy great!!!

bauderline · 03-10-2009 11:36am

PaulieD wrote: »

You stung yourself.

How ? With what ?

bauderline · 03-10-2009 11:39am

Agent J wrote: »

See, therein lies the rub.

5 years as opposed to 16 months between the Lisbon/Nice Referenda.

I'm all for democracy but there is a difference between asking people again after a reasonable period has passed compared to the Mrs Doyle version

"Are you sure you wont vote yes?" "Go on, Go on, Go On.."

So who is in a position to define the reasonable time frame then ? You ? Me ?

In my opinion anything greater than 12 months is reasonable time frame in which to ask people to vote on a referendum again... but that's all it is... my opinion.

Sam Vimes · 03-10-2009 11:40am

Agent J wrote: »

See, therein lies the rub.

5 years as opposed to 16 months between the Lisbon/Nice Referenda.

I'm all for democracy but there is a difference between asking people again after a reasonable period has passed compared to the Mrs Doyle version

"Are you sure you wont vote yes?" "Go on, Go on, Go On.."

I cannot understand why <insert arbitrary amount of time longer than a year> matters. If someone voted no because, say, we were losing our commissioner or because they thought our corporation tax would be raised, since those issues were removed from the debate with the guarantees, why the hell would it take them 5 years to change their minds?

And please don't suggest that the guarantees aren't binding. They are and I'm not having that debate again. I'm not suggesting you will say that, just preempting it in case you do :P

turgon · 03-10-2009 11:43am

bauderline wrote: »

In my opinion anything greater than 12 months is reasonable time frame in which to ask people to vote on a referendum again... but that's all it is... my opinion.

Considering too that the economic and political climate changed dramatically. The economic and political differences between now and 15 months ago are probably greater than the differences between the start and end of a general 5 year term.

OldJay · 03-10-2009 11:44am

Agent J wrote: »

See, therein lies the rub.

5 years as opposed to 16 months between the Lisbon/Nice Referenda.

I'm all for democracy but there is a difference between asking people again after a reasonable period has passed compared to the Mrs Doyle version

"Are you sure you wont vote yes?" "Go on, Go on, Go On.."

The EU gave legal guarantees on the issues that the 'No' campaign ran on to reiterate the effect of the same Treaty. The electorate then saw these, comprehended that their worries were nowhere as catastrophic as Ganley & Co duped them into in the first place . . . and voted accordingly.

An entirely different scenario to a general election putting candidates to constituency seats.

Euro_Kraut · 03-10-2009 11:44am

Richard Green of Coir is calling on the Czechs not to ratify the Lisbon treaty on the back of the first Irish NO vote.

Sam Vimes · 03-10-2009 11:44am

Actually, since it appears the yes side has won very comfortably this time, it appears that a year is more than enough time for people to change their minds. If it wasn't the result would have been exactly the same

OldJay · 03-10-2009 11:46am

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Richard Green of Coir is calling on the Czechs not to ratify the Lisbon treaty on the back of the first Irish NO vote.

About as influential as UKIP pamplets begging Ireland to keep Johnny Foreigner out of Britain.

Agent J · 03-10-2009 11:47am

bauderline wrote: »

So who is in a position to define the reasonable time frame then ? You ? Me ?

In my opinion anything greater than 12 months is reasonable time frame in which to ask people to vote on a referendum again... but that's all it is... my opinion.

Bertie Ahern within hours of the Nice Defeat said we'd have to vote again.

Dick roche within weeks of Lisbon I said we'd have to vote again
(Despite this btw.. http://www.dickroche.com/article.php?sid=1069&PHPSESSID=c79aa85144112003b0faaa6131192337 )

I think the examples you listed already in the forms of Divorce, Voting and abortion are enough of a precedent. What was the average gap? 9 years?

Seriously though i would ideally like some sort of protective mechanism that would stop repeat referenda within such a short space of time to prevent abuse of the process by the Houses of the Dail.

Problem is i dont know how pratical that would be. My issue is that they werent even waiting 12 months before reconsidering the treaty to be voted on again. They wanted it re run again as quickly as possible and that was pretty much the position from the moment the No vote was annoucned.

Flamed Diving · 03-10-2009 11:52am

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

Richard Green of Coir is calling on the Czechs not to ratify the Lisbon treaty on the back of the first Irish NO vote.

i firmly believe that the only reason these kind of groups oppose the EU is because of it's secular ideals. The rest is just padding.

OldJay · 03-10-2009 11:54am

(from RTE)

"Sinn Féin TD for North Kerry Martin Ferris said the campaign run by Yes side put fear into voters and had a huge effect"

Oh the irony . . .

Tallys & Results in the morning.

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