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October 2nd 2009 - Demoracy in Ireland R.I.P.

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13567…12

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    #62
    amacca
    Registered Users Posts: 6,940 ✭✭✭amacca


    Dinner wrote: »
    I'll bet anyone a million euro and one of my legs that nothing bad happens as a result.


    Only one of you're legs?

    If you bet both you could be in the interesting position of quite literally not having a leg to stand on should something bad happen.:D


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    #63
    Neamhshuntasach
    Registered Users Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭Neamhshuntasach


    Robbo wrote: »
    By all means, go ahead and commission such a poll. I'd love to hear the results.

    Why? Can the people who conducted the last one not do it or are they too busy rejoicing about the way the result is heading?


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    #64
    marbar
    Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭marbar


    Neamhshuntasach wrote: »
    Yes it is a matter of opinion just as the last time around it was a matter of opinion until the much quoted poll by yes voters became fact. I actually do not care what the outcome is as i won't be in Europe to experience anything. I'm just observing and applying the same circumstances to the last referendum.

    well then we'll just have to wait for the poll to see if you're right, but i doubt you are.
    old issues being addressed
    a wish to align ourselves closer with europe
    a greater understading of the issues

    that's my opinion of what the results of any poll will be on the yes vote

    higher turnout as well


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    #65
    Plotician
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭Plotician


    Democracy isn't dead, but we have demonstrated that the modern world makes it easier to influence the electorate.

    Anyway process over, decision made and accepted, and now we can move on. It will be interesting to see if Ireland truly moves to the 'heart of Europe' or whether we end up more of a provincial outpost run by governers as opposed to government.

    Next is the domestic stuff, NAMA implementation, the budget, and potential industrial unrest. Hopefully our leaders will have the guts to do the necessary and actually make Ireland competitive.

    I saw an article the other day titled something like 'Celtic Tiger Caged'. There's another way of thinking about this and in reality the Celtic Tiger has been un-caged for the last 18 months. What is showed us is that it lost it's ability to hunt for it's own food.

    Now we're back in the cage and hoping the zoo masters will throw us chunky bones of meat again.

    I wonder would the tiger have learnt to live in the wild once it had got hungry enough?


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    #66
    panda100
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,551 ✭✭✭panda100


    Sierra Oscar wrote: »
    Where is the need? The Irish voted no first time around, we secured key concessions and the yes vote highlights that the Irish people are happy with these concessions.

    Oh please, the swing to the 'yes' side has absolutely nothing to do with these tenuous 'concessions' and we all know it. Irish people are absolutely terrified of the future of this country,their livelihoods and that of their familys. This second referendum was won on a basis of horrific scaremongering on a very frightened population.

    A third referendum could open up the real debate of the future of our society,our country and the EU vision. I think that is what is really needed but instead all we have is a mocking of those who voted No which is still a considerable proportion of the population.


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    #67
    amacca
    Registered Users Posts: 6,940 ✭✭✭amacca


    I'm sick of damn tiger references at this stage. Could we not rename our economy the celtic red squirrel or something?


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    #68
    Dinner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,132 ✭✭✭Dinner


    Nigel Farage strutting his stuff on RTE at the moment. Without a hint of irony he's going on about the amount of lies the yes campaign told.


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    #69
    marbar
    Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭marbar


    Plotician wrote: »
    Democracy isn't dead, but we have demonstrated that the modern world makes it easier to influence the electorate.

    Anyway process over, decision made and accepted, and now we can move on. It will be interesting to see if Ireland truly moves to the 'heart of Europe' or whether we end up more of a provincial outpost run by governers as opposed to government.

    Next is the domestic stuff, NAMA implementation, the budget, and potential industrial unrest. Hopefully our leaders will have the guts to do the necessary and actually make Ireland competitive.

    I saw an article the other day titled something like 'Celtic Tiger Caged'. There's another way of thinking about this and in reality the Celtic Tiger has been un-caged for the last 18 months. What is showed us is that it lost it's ability to hunt for it's own food.

    Now we're back in the cage and hoping the zoo masters will throw us chunky bones of meat again.

    I wonder would the tiger have learnt to live in the wild once it had got hungry enough?
    oh dear


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    #70
    marbar
    Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭marbar


    panda100 wrote: »
    Oh please, the swing to the 'yes' side has absolutely nothing to do with these tenuous 'concessions' and we all know it. Irish people are absolutely terrified of the future of this country,their livelihoods and that of their familys. This second referendum was won on a basis of horrific scaremongering on a very frightened population.

    A third referendum could open up the real debate of the future of our society,our country and the EU vision. I think that is what is really needed but instead all we have is a mocking of those who voted No which is still a considerable proportion of the population.
    i'm really tired of these statements. you dont speak for the yes vote. you're entitled to your opinion, but not to say that "we all kjonw it"
    why don't you hold off until people are actually asked


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    #71
    Kalashnikov_Kid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 642 ✭✭✭Kalashnikov_Kid


    Dinner wrote: »
    Nigel Farage strutting his stuff on RTE at the moment. Without a hint of irony he's going on about the amount of lies the yes campaign told.
    UKIP leader Nigel Farage, who called for a No vote, compared the referendum to a corrupt election in Zimbabwe or Afghanistan.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/features/lisbontreaty/index.html

    What a tosser. A huge insult to our country by comparing our hard-fought constitutional rights in such a manner.

    :mad:


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    #72
    hellboy99
    Registered Users Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭hellboy99


    Max Power1 wrote: »
    Lets see when these jobs and the economic recovery we were promised will materialize.
    Lets see indeed, when and if it happens :rolleyes:


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    #73
    Plotician
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭Plotician


    Went for a pint last night after voting and asked the girl behind the bar was she going to vote as well. This was her answer - 'to be honest i'm frightened to'.

    She had listened to so much stuff she had ended up scared of voting either way.

    Not sure how to analyse that but does make for some interesting thoughts.


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    #74
    marbar
    Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭marbar


    Plotician wrote: »
    Went for a pint last night after voting and asked the girl behind the bar was she going to vote as well. This was her answer - 'to be honest i'm frightened to'.

    She had listened to so much stuff she had ended up scared of voting either way.

    Not sure how to analyse that but does make for some interesting thoughts.

    that's a terrible excuse to not get off your ass!


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    #75
    orourkeda
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,918 ✭✭✭✭orourkeda


    Ritchi wrote: »
    As far as I can see, it was respected, and assurances got to reflect the reasons people gave for voting no the last time. Without us voting no the first time we would not have these assurances(whether they were actually needed, or how legally binding they are, remains to be seen).
    This just shows that the assurances were enough to change peoples mind this time around.

    why was there a second referendum then


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    #76
    Dinner
    Registered Users Posts: 2,132 ✭✭✭Dinner


    orourkeda wrote: »
    why was there a second referendum then

    Because the concerns of the public were addressed.


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    #77
    marbar
    Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭marbar


    orourkeda wrote: »
    why was there a second referendum then

    same reason for the first one
    lordy


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    #78
    Neamhshuntasach
    Registered Users Posts: 2,168 ✭✭✭Neamhshuntasach


    marbar wrote: »
    well then we'll just have to wait for the poll to see if you're right, but i doubt you are.
    old issues being addressed
    a wish to align ourselves closer with europe
    a greater understading of the issues

    that's my opinion of what the results of any poll will be on the yes vote

    higher turnout as well

    Maybe you are right. But my point is that if a poll was conducted and it showed that yes voters voted on reasons that are not related to the treaty. Would that not be democratic grounds for another referendum as it was the last time? Well anyways unless the no side can prove that the EU are gonna draft your babies into a frontline infantry i doubt another referendum would benefit them. I think people have their minds clearly made up this time.


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    #79
    Plotician
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭Plotician


    Oh, and the other bit of amateur market research on my behalf showed that most of the older people round here voted yes because 'Ireland needs the money'.

    Well whichever way you're inclined i think you've got to smile about that one.


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    #80
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    Democracy, fuck yeah!,
    Coming again to save the mother fucking day yeah,
    Democracy, fúck yeah,
    Freedom is the only way yeah

    Communists your time is through, cause now you've got to answer to,
    Democracy, Fuck yeah,
    So lick my vote and suck on my rights,
    Democracy, fuck yeah!

    Also, those saying we should hold a third referendum obviously haven't the slightest clue what is going on, so should probably have refrained from voting in either of the first two.


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    #81
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    Rb was definitely a key gain for the yes side :pac:


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    #82
    hellboy99
    Registered Users Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭hellboy99


    Neamhshuntasach wrote: »
    Well anyways unless the no side can prove that the EU are gonna draft your babies into a frontline infantry i doubt another referendum would benefit them. I think people have their minds clearly made up this time.
    Same could be said about the Yes side, show me all theses new jobs and the miracle cure for the recession.


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    #83
    marbar
    Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭marbar


    Neamhshuntasach wrote: »
    Maybe you are right. But my point is that if a poll was conducted and it showed that yes voters voted on reasons that are not related to the treaty. Would that not be democratic grounds for another referendum as it was the last time? Well anyways unless the no side can prove that the EU are gonna draft your babies into a frontline infantry i doubt another referendum would benefit them. I think people have their minds clearly made up this time.

    i doubt it. there is also a high percentage of people that would have voted no because "we fought for our freedom in 1916" (amazing how often we've heard this) and becaue of other old arguements taht were innacurate and nothing to do with the treaty


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    #84
    Boskowski
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,361 ✭✭✭Boskowski


    Ah come on guys. Will you ever stop?

    Does it not seem one bit odd to anyone that we had to vote twice? I mean whatever about the treaty itself, but how could you possibly find something positive in that? Does it not occur to you at all that basically we repeated this until we got the 'right' result? Are you guys really this blind?

    Anyone who says again this is a sign of a good democracy I simply cannot take seriously anymore.


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    #85
    marbar
    Registered Users Posts: 390 ✭✭marbar


    there's just no explaining this to some people

    i'm glad it's all over

    long live sensible people!!
    cull the rest


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    #86
    Rb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,277 ✭✭✭✭Rb


    realcam wrote: »
    Ah come on guys. Will you ever stop?

    Does it not seem one bit odd to anyone that we had to vote twice? I mean whatever about the treaty itself, but how could you possibly find something positive in that? Does it not occur to you at all that basically we repeated this until we got the 'right' result? Are you guys really this blind?

    Anyone who says again this is a sign of a good democracy I simply cannot take seriously anymore.
    Speaking of blindness, surely you've seen this point addressed over, and over, and over here over the past few months?


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    #87
    hellboy99
    Registered Users Posts: 6,219 ✭✭✭hellboy99


    marbar wrote: »
    long live sensible people!!
    cull the rest
    Only time will tell who they are, the "Yes" or the "No" side.


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    #88
    eightyfish
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭eightyfish


    realcam wrote: »
    Does it not seem one bit odd to anyone that we had to vote twice?

    What is your solution? A million Irish voters shoot down a treaty that has been negotiated and agreed by 20-something countries as the way forward for the union - and half of the no voters say that they didn't understand what they were voting on? And the other half say they voted no because of issues that weren't in the treaty? The only solution is to address those concerns, and ask again.


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    #89
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    Plotician wrote: »
    I saw an article the other day titled something like 'Celtic Tiger Caged'. There's another way of thinking about this and in reality the Celtic Tiger has been un-caged for the last 18 months. What is showed us is that it lost it's ability to hunt for it's own food.

    Now we're back in the cage and hoping the zoo masters will throw us chunky bones of meat again.

    I wonder would the tiger have learnt to live in the wild once it had got hungry enough?

    Ah here. There is such a thing as over-extending a metaphor to the point of meaninglessness. Next you'll be talking about Ireland's need to crouch in the long grass near a watering hole waiting for smaller, herbivorous nations to stray too close.

    How about this one. The Irish Wolfhound has opted to stay with the pack.


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    #90
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,292 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    realcam wrote: »
    Ah come on guys. Will you ever stop?

    Does it not seem one bit odd to anyone that we had to vote twice? I mean whatever about the treaty itself, but how could you possibly find something positive in that? Does it not occur to you at all that basically we repeated this until we got the 'right' result? Are you guys really this blind?

    Anyone who says again this is a sign of a good democracy I simply cannot take seriously anymore.

    We voted twice on divorce...was that odd?

    The ppl could have voted No again if they wanted to......but they didn't.


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    #91
    alrightcuz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 113 ✭✭alrightcuz


    no matter what way the vote goes i do believe that because this was a vote that involves all of Europe we should have heared from all the other country's and what there opinion was?

    i would have been very interested on why the people from Germany,France and Holland all taught this was a very bad idea ,after all aren't we all Europeans i want to no how my brothers across Europe feel.


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