Greens - Vaccinate Badgers NOT Children.

Raiser

In the Green Party's latest stupidity showcase it has been revealed via a leaked document that months after our greedy, self-serving, corrupt and ineffectual Government reneged on its plans to vaccinate our children against cervical cancer - The Green Party are lobbying them to vaccinate our Badger population.

- It is not clear at this point whether the Badger vaccination will include provision to prevent cervical cancer in Badgers, or whether terminal cancer patients will have chaperoned hospital visits by healthy Badgers in order to brighten up their day, which might help, seeing as with the Green Party's explicit approval said hospital is now 400 Kilometres from their Home.

How much longer do we have to stand by and watch these absolute fools posture, pose and wring their soft little work-shy hands over the nonsensical inanities they care so deeply and stupidly about?

Could someone please venture a ballpark figure on what it has cost the Taxpayer to have these complete Cretins in 'Power' [using the term lightly]

- I mean if you added up every wage, expense, driver with a bike in the boot for photo opportunities etc. and balanced it against what the Greens have done for any Man, Woman, Child, Animal or fcuking fern in this Country I think it would be stark and clear just exactly the enormous extent that these Morons are where they are today by a horrible, terrible and wholly unfortunate mistake that now needs to be corrected.

At this point their conduct is offensive.

spadder

"A senior party source admitted the leaked material, which included badger vaccination and restrictions on the use of animals by visiting circuses, could be damaging to the party image."

Why would we need visiting circus animals when we could just watch the Greens jump through hoops?

Philistine

Its the Green Party that needs to be vaccinated...or should that be neutered?

spadder

Philistine wrote: »

Its the Green Party that needs to be vaccinated...or should that be neutered?

They are neutered! have you ever seen them show some balls? after the next election, eradicated

Raiser

spadder wrote: »

They are neutered! have you ever seen them show some balls? after the next election, eradicated

After the Election? Will it really take that long? By then we'll all be paying 62% tax so that they can afford to fund their "Violins for Badgers" programme....

Under the Greens watchful eye there's only one way you can get a potentially life-saving vaccine for your Child - Dress them in this Anti-Cervical Cancer Suit.....

djpbarry

Raiser wrote: »

In the Green Party's latest stupidity showcase it has been revealed via a leaked document that months after our greedy, self-serving, corrupt and ineffectual Government reneged on its plans to vaccinate our children against cervical cancer - The Green Party are lobbying them to vaccinate our Badger population.

No, they're not. It was a draft document, not a final version. Nevertheless, I note that nobody has questioned why the practice of vaccinating badgers is being discussed.

As for the cervical cancer vaccine, it is only effective in 70% of cases and the long term efficacy is unknown, but it's still available to those who wish to avail of it. Funding a national screening programme (which would still be required even if a vaccination programme was rolled out) is probably a better option.

CCCP^

djpbarry wrote: »

No, they're not. It was a draft document, not a final version. Nevertheless, I note that nobody has questioned why the practice of vaccinating badgers is being discussed.

As for the cervical cancer vaccine, it is only effective in 70% of cases and the long term efficacy is unknown, but it's still available to those who wish to avail of it. Funding a national screening programme (which would still be required even if a vaccination programme was rolled out) is probably a better option.

A 10% effective vaccine for humans is better than a 100% vaccine for an animal, that might sound crazy to some but I think human lives are worth more than an animals. Why the hell should badgers get vaccinated anyway? Are they going to get swine flu? This is crazy, the Greens need to sort out their priorities. If not, they are the new PDs - finished.

BennyLava

Did you not know badgers are vital to the economic recovery of the country.

at least they are more vital than any of the clowns in the Dail

CCCP^

BennyLava wrote: »

Did you not know badgers are vital to the economic recovery of the country.

at least they are more vital than any of the clowns in the Dail

Sorry, foolish me. I guess the Greens have a better idea of how to spend my taxes, guess it is a crazy and outlandish idea to want to better the lives of people.

DarkJager

Who voted these ****ing clowns in anyway?

avalon68

djpbarry wrote: »

I note that nobody has questioned why the practice of vaccinating badgers is being discussed.

This is a good point. It's all well and good to say its more important to vaccinate humans - of course its important, but if the badger vaccinations would help reduce the resevoir of something like TB in the country then it is certainly worthwhile to consider the option of doing it....maybe not right now, but it shouldnt be dismissed on the basis that all green policies are crap :rolleyes:.

CCCP^

avalon68 wrote: »

This is a good point. It's all well and good to say its more important to vaccinate humans - of course its important, but if the badger vaccinations would help reduce the resevoir of something like TB in the country then it is certainly worthwhile to consider the option of doing it....maybe not right now, but it shouldnt be dismissed on the basis that all green policies are crap :rolleyes:.

TB and Cervical Cancer. Which is the bigger problem? :rolleyes:

avalon68

CCCP^ wrote: »

TB and Cervical Cancer. Which is the bigger problem? :rolleyes:

Well with cases of multidrug resistant TB on the rise worldwide, I would say they are both big problems. Any methods of reducing potential sources of TB should be investigated before the problem gets bigger. Im not saying that vaccines against HPV are not important....I believe it should be part of the vaccination schedule - Im just saying that its not just about having happy little badgers hopping around the country - it has long term benefits to human health too....

Arfan

CCCP^ wrote: »

TB and Cervical Cancer. Which is the bigger problem? :rolleyes:

This is a false dilemma. There is no either/or choice here.

Scofflaw

avalon68 wrote: »

This is a good point. It's all well and good to say its more important to vaccinate humans - of course its important, but if the badger vaccinations would help reduce the resevoir of something like TB in the country then it is certainly worthwhile to consider the option of doing it....maybe not right now, but it shouldnt be dismissed on the basis that all green policies are crap :rolleyes:.

Extensive badger culling in Ireland has failed to reduce bovine TB rates, which are now on the rise. The vaccine, which was recently developed in the UK, is a humane alternative to the ongoing (and apparently ineffective) culling of badgers - and probably more cost-effective, since currently about 6,000 snares are set nightly around the country for badgers.

A vaccination programme would be a follow-up to the same scheme in the UK.

Facts, though - who cares, right? It certainly sounds like a classic "daft Green animals-first policy", and that's good enough for many, apparently.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Raiser

CCCP^ wrote: »

TB and Cervical Cancer. Which is the bigger problem? :rolleyes:

Arfan wrote: »

This is a false dilemma. There is no either/or choice here.

Why? Is it because we are not "First World" enough to vaccinate our Children and our nocturnal subterranean dwelling wildlife?

Perhaps because we pay so little tax that funding health programmes is simply not feasible.

Maybe its because small-minded, misguided idiotic Buffoons saw a chance to get into Government so that they could set up Dolphin Discos and Hen Hospitals while the Taxpayer just coughs up that little bit extra to fund their ridiculous hare-brained schemes.

- And all the time they are either blind to or sneakily supportive of the corruption and thievery of their Partners in the worst Government on the Planet with the possible exception of Mugabe's lot.

At this point I'd be in favour of a humane cull.

avalon68

Raiser wrote: »

Maybe its because small-minded, misguided idiotic Buffoons saw a chance to get into Government so that they could set up Dolphin Discos and Hen Hospitals while the Taxpayer just coughs up that little bit extra to fund their ridiculous hare-brained schemes.

I see nothing small minded in wanting to implement a system of vaccination that in the long term will prevent economic losses in the farming industry and has potential benefit to human health in our country..

Raiser

avalon68 wrote: »

I see nothing small minded in wanting to implement a system of vaccination that in the long term will prevent economic losses in the farming industry and has potential benefit to human health in our country..

That's side-stepping the point and you know it - there's also nothing ridiculous about spraying for Green fly in your garden - But there would be if you set out to do it 10 minutes after noticing that your House was on fire.

Its about perspective, priority and basic common sense.

The Greens are content to ignore immediate and serious issues while focussing on whatever little mini-projects that Fianna Fail allows them to play with. Half-arsed little almost brainy schemes and pathetic day dream ideals that have no substance, foundation, fundamental worth or worthwhile goal.

They are damaging the good name and reputation of the Green movement Worldwide by perpetuating idiocy at every turn.

We can't afford to humour them and their stupid games and we can't risk allowing them to further damage our State by allowing them free reign any longer.

CCCP^

It's Cattle that need to be treated and vaccinated, not the Badgers.

Scofflaw wrote:

Extensive badger culling in Ireland has failed to reduce bovine TB rates, which are now on the rise

Taken from - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6653691.stm

Anthony Gibson of the UK NFU, Courtesy of BBC wrote:

The UK NFU accused the badger groups of twisting the available data to support their case.

The Union's Anthony Gibson argued that the Republic's policy of snaring badgers within a 2km radius of infected farms - where wildlife transmission was the suspected cause of the outbreak - had been an outstanding success.

He said it had resulted in a reduction in the number of cattle that needed to be slaughtered from 42,000 in 2002 to 24,000 now - a reduction of 46%.

Regardless, it's about priorities with me when I read this about the Greens. The Cervical Cancer vaccine could save far more women and far more taxpayer's money in the long run. Ireland has always had a TB problem and I do agree we cannot afford to lose focus on something like this that once ravaged the country, but it's rare for animal to human transmission of TB to occur unless you have alot of contact or work with animals who are prone to getting TB.

Human to human transmission of TB is the bigger problem. There was a recent outbreak of TB down in Cork but it wasn't from petting Badgers, it was someone who worked in a creche who originated from Eastern Europe and had contracted TB there afaik.

Scofflaw

CCCP^ wrote: »

It's Cattle that need to be treated and vaccinated, not the Badgers.



Taken from - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6653691.stm



Regardless, it's about priorities with me when I read this about the Greens. The Cervical Cancer vaccine could save far more women and far more taxpayer's money in the long run. Ireland has always had a TB problem and I do agree we cannot afford to lose focus on something like this that once ravaged the country, but it's rare for animal to human transmission of TB to occur unless you have alot of contact or work with animals who are prone to getting TB.

Human to human transmission of TB is the bigger problem. There was a recent outbreak of TB down in Cork but it wasn't from petting Badgers, it was someone who worked in a creche who originated from Eastern Europe and had contracted TB there afaik.

If it's about priorities, then perhaps we should look at the cost of the alternative. This is the pilot study:

30 areas of the country, each 100 square km
10 culled proactively, 10 reactively, 10 not culled
Badgers culled through being caught in cage and then shot
Incidence of bovine TB measured on farms inside and outside study areas
Reactive culling suspended in 2003 after significant rise in infection
Trial cost £7m per year

That's quite a lot of money - what does culling cost Ireland country-wide?

cordially,
Scofflaw

avalon68

Raiser wrote: »

That's side-stepping the point and you know it - there's also nothing ridiculous about spraying for Green fly in your garden - But there would be if you set out to do it 10 minutes after noticing that your House was on fire.

The house being "on fire" now does not mean we should abandon plans to improve the country in the future. The green party have not said anything about running out and vaccinating badgers next week...for all you know this issue may not even be included in the final document. I am simply making the point that it is a worthwhile endeavour and should not be dismissed in a flurry of anti-green sentiment.

CCCP^

avalon68 wrote: »

The house being "on fire" now does not mean we should abandon plans to improve the country in the future. The green party have not said anything about running out and vaccinating badgers next week...for all you know this issue may not even be included in the final document. I am simply making the point that it is a worthwhile endeavour and should not be dismissed in a flurry of anti-green sentiment.

It's a worthwhile endeavour but the goddamned house is burning to the ground; the country is bankrupt, there is no money left. Put it on the backburner and get priorities upfront such as getting the economy back on track. It wouldnt even be in a secondary level business students draft of things that need to be done right now, anyone in their right mind would realise that the current situation we are in is desperate. Don't feel you need to defend "green issues" here, I agree that on a sunnier day this should be dealt with, but for the Green Party to be imagining that this type of thing needs to be included in possible negotitations for continuing Gov't with FF is crazy, it's pure selfish agenda.

ArmaniJeanss

Is it a specific Green party policy not to vaccinate children against anything at all?
Because that is what the thread title implies.

CCCP^

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Is it a specific Green party policy not to vaccinate children against anything at all?
Because that is what the thread title implies.

The title is misleading and carries slant, nobody has said so far (afaik) that it is not public health policy on the part of the Greens to vaccinate children, but it has been leaked from the rag that is the Indo that they may have been considering vaccinating badgers against TB to prevent Bovine TB amongst Cattle. Not in itself a bad idea if it can be proven to work but bad timing as I think we have more pressing matters to deal with.

It was probably thought up to get support from the farming community.

john-joe

agree

The_Minister

Scofflaw wrote: »

Extensive badger culling in Ireland has failed to reduce bovine TB rates, which are now on the rise. The vaccine, which was recently developed in the UK, is a humane alternative to the ongoing (and apparently ineffective) culling of badgers - and probably more cost-effective, since currently about 6,000 snares are set nightly around the country for badgers.

A vaccination programme would be a follow-up to the same scheme in the UK.

Facts, though - who cares, right? It certainly sounds like a classic "daft Green animals-first policy", and that's good enough for many, apparently.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Genuine question - if we can't get rid of them by shooting them, then how will we capture them and vaccinate them?

Arfan wrote: »

This is a false dilemma. There is no either/or choice here.

Except that we are kinda short on money now.

Scofflaw

The_Minister wrote: »

Genuine question - if we can't get rid of them by shooting them, then how will we capture them and vaccinate them?

A good question, and not one I can give a definitive answer to. However, shooting or trapping requires a close to 100% success rate as long as badgers are still a TB reservoir, whereas vaccination can eliminate the TB reservoir in badgers with a much less than 100% success rate - all that is required is to make transmission statistically less probable than non-transmission.

The_Minister wrote: »

Except that we are kinda short on money now.

Bovine TB costs money, though.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Raiser

The_Minister wrote: »

Genuine question - if we can't get rid of them by shooting them, then how will we capture them and vaccinate them?

Are you thinking of the Badgers or The Greens here? - I'd like to voice my full support either way !!!


Folks it is unfair to say that the thread title is misleading. It is a fact that the Greens stood idly by munching organic Himalyan muesli energy bars while the Cervical Cancer vaccination programme was flushed down the toilet. For them to then come out and represent the People of this State with a Badger vaccination crusade simply invites comparison, ridicule and disgust.

- They may as well be campaigning for extra lifeboats on the Titanic in terms of their timing, relevance, grasp of reality, intelligence, understanding of their Electorate/key issues and overall worth.

Macha

Raiser wrote: »

Folks it is unfair to say that the thread title is misleading. It is a fact that the Greens stood idly by munching organic Himalyan muesli energy bars while the Cervical Cancer vaccination programme was flushed down the toilet. For them to then come out and represent the People of this State with a Badger vaccination crusade simply invites comparison, ridicule and disgust.

- They may as well be campaigning for extra lifeboats on the Titanic in terms of their timing, relevance, grasp of reality, intelligence, understanding of their Electorate/key issues and overall worth.

You see what you've done here is ignore the relevant facts that have been pointed out in the discussion since your OP and gone straight back to your original argument, despite it being shown to be totally flawed. You've also thrown around the usual (*yawn*) insults about muesli bars (please do try and be a little more imaginative) and once again proven Bertrand Russell to be correct to such an extent I think he's going to have to go back in my sig.

Diarmuid

taconnol wrote: »

You see what you've done here is ignore the relevant facts that have been pointed out in the discussion since your OP and gone straight back to your original argument, despite it being shown to be totally flawed. You've also thrown around the usual (*yawn*) insults about muesli bars (please do try and be a little more imaginative) and once again proven Bertrand Russell to be correct to such an extent I think he's going to have to go back in my sig.

Totally agree. This whole thread is a perfect example of a false dichotomy and is being used to have another good old bash of the greens

Whether you agree with the Greens or not at least they have principles. With the ridicule (muesli bars / cycling to work) that is heaped upon them for standing up for those principles it is clear that the idea of a principled politician is anathema to the Irish public yet cute hoorism and cronyism is accepted. No wonder we are screwed.

BTW I've never voted green party.

Raiser

taconnol wrote: »

You see what you've done here is ignore the relevant facts that have been pointed out in the discussion since your OP and gone straight back to your original argument, despite it being shown to be totally flawed.

I've assessed each 'fact' on its merits and despite their being well presented and correct in premise and accuracy, common sense requires that I'd still redirect you back to the house on fire analogy.

If you cannot correctly judge the stark reality here then either you are living in a Political vacuum out of choice or ignorance - or alternatively you must admit your absolute blind Green bias.

taconnol wrote: »

You've also thrown around the usual (*yawn*) insults about muesli bars (please do try and be a little more imaginative) and once again proven Bertrand Russell to be correct to such an extent I think he's going to have to go back in my sig.

Bertrand Russell has been quoted on the topic of Muesli bars? I think you've botched your sig.....

- Most certainly its an insult to the good name and memory of Bertrand Russell to associate it glibly with a cheap ploy to save a what is factually a tiny fraction of the cost of NAMA through failing to safeguard the health of our Children.

Macha

Raiser wrote: »

I've assessed each 'fact' on its merits and despite their being well presented and correct in premise and accuracy, common sense requires that I'd still redirect you back to the house on fire analogy.

You are working off the assumption that bovine TB does not have a cost. And you also create the false choice between the HPV vaccine and the badger vaccine.

Of course I think that the HPV vaccine should have come in and it's a disgrace that it didn't. But there are other important things that need funding. Why aren't you lashing out at the new €18m theatre recently opened in Carlow, or any other number of "less important" initiatives?

For me, this is another classic case of the true costs of an issue not being fully understood. Internalisation of all costs is a fundamental value of sustainable thinking.

Raiser wrote: »

Bertrand Russell has been quoted on the topic of Muesli bars? I think you've botched your sig.....

Ah yes, they were a personal favourite of his.

Arfan

This is still going on? Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my explanation.

There is no competition between a badger vaccination program and a children's vaccination program. It is perfectly possible to run both such programs. There is no THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE argument. It is not the last standing policy wins. Having one of the above policies does not preclude support or opposition for the other. I hope this clears up the mistake you've been continually making throughout this thread Raiser.

The_Minister wrote:

Except that we are kinda short on money now.

This is a fair point which is why programs should always be evaluated on their own merits independently in terms of cost, benefit, importance, dancing monkeys, etc.

Alun

On the badger thing, I know that in those parts of Europe where they still have rabies in the wild, they use an orally administered vaccine that they put in food that they scatter in areas where the animals (foxes mainly) are prevalent. I'm guessing the same thing could be done with TB and badgers, so no need to catch them and vaccinate them.

Raiser

Diarmuid wrote: »

Totally agree. This whole thread is a perfect example of a false dichotomy and is being used to have another good old bash of the greens

Whether you agree with the Greens or not at least they have principles. With the ridicule (muesli bars / cycling to work) that is heaped upon them for standing up for those principles it is clear that the idea of a principled politician is anathema to the Irish public yet cute hoorism and cronyism is accepted. No wonder we are screwed.

BTW I've never voted green party.

The Green Party have "principles" ???? Well that's certainly news to me.... Are you sure you're not confusing principles with their pushing nonsensical, selfish, self-validating, moronic agendas while at the same time being complicit in reprehensible politics and scandal?

- The way I see it is that The Greens are enabling Fianna Fail to do as they please, while either supporting, condoning, contributing to, ignoring or denying the scandals unfolding around them.

Anyone can talk about principles, anyone can have principles - You just need to have deceny, morality and integrity to accompany them - just look at the Nazi Party - They had a pile of principles; But they were all shíte......

How can you call them principled when they have tacitly approved of all of the below through their continued participation in this Government?

• School children having to be taught in rat infested and wholly inadequate facilities. If schools were private concerns the health and safety authority would have closed many of them down. But the government skews everything in their favour.
  
• Children's rights amendment being postponed again - cos if it was enacted the govt could be held to account too much for our piss-poor health/education/special needs services
  
• The underfunding of the health service to such an extent that countless people suffer and die as a result of the negligence
  
• Cervical cancer vaccinations for young girls being withdrawn at a cost of €10 million in comparison to what we're paying to bail out banks....scandalous
  
• John O'Donoghue and his Expenses
  
• NAMA
  
• Rody Molloy's pay-off.
  
• Poor treatment by State of victims of sexual abuse.
  
• Banking scandals: the Anglo nationwide loans and deposits.
  
• Bonuses to failed and corrupt bankers.
  
• Financial regulator pay-off and pension.
  
• Martin Cullens abuse of government jet
  
• Mary Harney's abuse of the government jet
  
• Patrick Neary and his secret payoff
  
• Unvouched Government expenses
  
• The near death of a whole train load of people north of Malahide because the government would not fund the railway safety group adequately to conduct proper inspections
  
• The fact Judges don't have to pay the pension levy.
  
• Batt O'Keefe referring to the inmates of Magdalene Laundries as 'employees'.
  
• The mental health service underfunding and resultant effects including suicide, homelessness and violence.
  
• The vast waste of public money in administration of the HSE.
  
• The continued existence of cartels in many areas of Irish life.
  
• The cosy relationship between Pharmaceutical Companies and Government at the expense of the consumer through removal of non brand drugs and price fixing.
  
• State funding of private schools
  
• Shells Rossport shennanigans.
  
• Undeclared Political Campaign donations for FF TD's and Senators
  
• €50million spent by Dept of Education on renting prefabs for schools
  
• The cartel of vested interests who coalesce around "non-party" Health Minister Harney and her husband (through his lobbying company) to privatise by stealth the public health service and in so doing transfer as much of the public health budget into private hands as quickly as possible. The vast conflict of interest here is so big, few can see it.
  
• Private patients' insurance companies not having to pay for their clients' use of public beds.
  
• Political appointments to an Bord Pleannala
  
• Greens now in power have done nothing about EPA's political directors despite having once cried bitterly over it

* List taken in part from Inthemires scandal list on politics.ie

Arfan

Raiser wrote:

just look at the Nazi Party

Well that just about wraps up this thread. Thanks for coming everyone.

Raiser

Raiser wrote:

just look at the Nazi Party

Arfan wrote: »

Well that just about wraps up this thread. Thanks for coming everyone.

Don't be underhanded Arfan - its not acceptable to partially quote someone, while removing the context and original intent just because you are lost for an answer.....

Raiser wrote:

Anyone can talk about principles, anyone can have principles - You just need to have decency, morality and integrity to accompany them - just look at the Nazi Party - They had a pile of principles; But they were all shíte......

What I said was intended to be a humorous Godwins Law dig at the Green Party's "principles" - Sorry if there weren't enough pastel coloured smilies in there for you :rolleyes: :cool:

spank_inferno

The decision to remove cervical cancer vaccines was taken by the department of health and the HSE, not by the green party

They went with their decision based on advise that screening is as effective as vaccination.

The Green party are in charge of the dept of the environment so working with the Dept of Agriculture, a programe to vaccine badgers against TB would be in their remit (and not an unworthy programe may I add)

And aswell....
If any parent would like their daughter to have the HPV vaccine they can head down to their GP and get it, they may have to pay a few euro, but they can get it.

Its a sad day when parents abdicate their responsibilities towards their childrens healthcare to the government.


There is so many good reasons to pour scorn on the Green Party
This one however just doesnt add up

Arfan

Raiser wrote: »

Don't be underhanded Arfan

I wasn't. I was conceding the thread to you. I'd been racking my brains here trying to come up with a Nazi reference and you beat me to it. I have been utterly out-Godwinned sir.

And they are pretty coloured smilies.

CCCP^

Arfan wrote: »

This is still going on? Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my explanation.

There is no competition between a badger vaccination program and a children's vaccination program. It is perfectly possible to run both such programs. There is no THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE argument. It is not the last standing policy wins. Having one of the above policies does not preclude support or opposition for the other. I hope this clears up the mistake you've been continually making throughout this thread Raiser.


This is a fair point which is why programs should always be evaluated on their own merits independently in terms of cost, benefit, importance, dancing monkeys, etc.

I agree that if we were awash with money it would be a good idea, even though I feel other measures can be taken against bovine TB. I agree with the idea of vaccinating the badgers because it can save the badgers from further culls and possible extermination from Ireland. It makes sense, and for a political party in this country to advocate something that makes sense, atleast in theory, is a welcomed approach.

However, I feel the Greens really sold themselves out going into government with FF. FF will survive the recession, maybe lose alot of seats and possibly be in opposition for a few years, but will utlimately come back, thats the horrible reality, because a FG/Labour coalition will be totally indecisive because of the power struggle between Kenny and Gilmore. The Greens may not survive, there is a seemingly successful deflection of anger at our current situation from FF onto the Greens amongst the public, and I feel they will suffer greatly at the next GE. I would have actually gave them a vote if they had had candidates in Laois/Offaly (where I am originally from) but I believe they didn't even field candidates there.

magicbastarder

Raiser wrote: »

How can you call them principled when they have tacitly approved of all of the below through their continued participation in this Government?

CCCP^

magicbastarder wrote: »

Haha...I don't get it

magicbastarder

it's the 'i find your arguments highly illogical' response.

meathstevie

CCCP^ wrote: »

I agree that if we were awash with money it would be a good idea, even though I feel other measures can be taken against bovine TB. I agree with the idea of vaccinating the badgers because it can save the badgers from further culls and possible extermination from Ireland. It makes sense, and for a political party in this country to advocate something that makes sense, atleast in theory, is a welcomed approach.

However, I feel the Greens really sold themselves out going into government with FF. FF will survive the recession, maybe lose alot of seats and possibly be in opposition for a few years, but will utlimately come back, thats the horrible reality, because a FG/Labour coalition will be totally indecisive because of the power struggle between Kenny and Gilmore. The Greens may not survive, there is a seemingly successful deflection of anger at our current situation from FF onto the Greens amongst the public, and I feel they will suffer greatly at the next GE. I would have actually gave them a vote if they had had candidates in Laois/Offaly (where I am originally from) but I believe they didn't even field candidates there.

Badgers are far from extinct in Ireland. Personally I believe the main argument against indiscriminate culling is the fact that other badgers that could be TB carriers will take up vacant territories of badgers that happened to be healty.

Personally I think the Greens made a far bigger mistake in their proposals regarding one of the biggest scourges on native wildlife : feral cats.

Imagine the cost of curing and neutering every disease ridden feral cat in Ireland ? How many hospital beds would that finance or cervical cancer vaccines would that buy ?

djpbarry

meathstevie wrote: »

Personally I think the Greens made a far bigger mistake in their proposals regarding one of the biggest scourges on native wildlife : feral cats.

Imagine the cost of curing and neutering every disease ridden feral cat in Ireland ? How many hospital beds would that finance or cervical cancer vaccines would that buy ?

The ultimate conclusion of this line of reasoning is that absolutely nothing should be spent on anything other than healthcare until absolutely every single member of the population is 100% healthy and is not in need of hospital treatment, vaccines, etc. There is always more that could be done to promote the health of the population, but that does not mean that absolutely no consideration should be given to any non-healthcare related endeavour. Besides, the potential negative consequences of this government’s decision not to fund the cervical cancer vaccine with public funds are being ridiculously overstated.

meathstevie

djpbarry wrote: »

The ultimate conclusion of this line of reasoning is that absolutely nothing should be spent on anything other than healthcare until absolutely every single member of the population is 100% healthy and is not in need of hospital treatment, vaccines, etc. There is always more that could be done to promote the health of the population, but that does not mean that absolutely no consideration should be given to any non-healthcare related endeavour. Besides, the potential negative consequences of this government’s decision not to fund the cervical cancer vaccine with public funds are being ridiculously overstated.

I agree with you to an extent but I was pointing out that the Greens aren't to be taken serious, not even as ecologists. If you're striving to prolong the lives of one of the main scourges on native wildlife you can't be taken serious as ecologist/conservationist. And to the best of my knowledge that's exactly the core of the Green ideology.
Anyone with an ounce of knowledge on conservation knows that there's only one solution for the likes of feral cats and it's not a dose of antibiotics, neutering and back to where they came from.

On the other hand I do agree with the Greens when they for example say massive investment in public transport is needed and that we should all consider and alter as much as possible our use of natural resources.
I do agree with them when they say that there's a serious democratic deficit in the structure and workings in the EU but that it's the best we have.

Where they loose credibility in my books is when they come up with one of their daft schemes that make you wonder who was licking the LSD lollies yesterday.

Raiser

magicbastarder wrote: »

it's the 'i find your arguments highly illogical' response.

Well in that case..... Have an yerself But it would have been interesting if you could have voiced a stance, opinion or valid argument.....

I'm just planning on touring the cancer wards in 10 years time with a hale and hearty Badger on a lead....... Hey Mrs. Boyle!!! Its a pine box for you and another JD n' Coke for John Gormless and his fcuking Bench Pressing Badger.

- I'm positive that the pro-green sentiment here is because normal, typical people on here ignore "Green Party" references in thread titles as they understandably think the content will only insult their intelligence.... While at the same time the typical Greens flock in by the eco-busload because insults to the intelligence are their Nirvana, breeding ground and reason to be.

Macha

Raiser wrote: »

Well in that case..... Have an yerself But it would have been interesting if you could have voiced a stance, opinion or valid argument.....

I'm just planning on touring the cancer wards in 10 years time with a hale and hearty Badger on a lead....... Hey Mrs. Boyle!!! Its a pine box for you and another JD n' Coke for John Gormless and his fcuking Bench Pressing Badger.

- I'm positive that the pro-green sentiment here is because normal, typical people on here ignore "Green Party" references in thread titles as they understandably think the content will only insult their intelligence.... While at the same time the typical Greens flock in by the eco-busload because insults to the intelligence are their Nirvana, breeding ground and reason to be.

And another insult-laden post lowers your credibility even further.

djpbarry

Raiser wrote: »

I'm positive that the pro-green sentiment here is because normal, typical people on here ignore "Green Party" references in thread titles as they understandably think the content will only insult their intelligence...

I think the wildly inaccurate (and not at all sensationalist) thread title may well have convinced a number of would-be contributors that the argument conveyed there-in is nonsense. Which it is.

But seeing as you mention ‘ignoring content’, have posts #2 – 46 registered with you yet? Any chance of acknowledging some of the arguments presented by other posters rather than repeating the same accusations over-and-over from your entrenched ‘the Greens have no principles’ position?

Raiser

taconnol wrote: »

And another insult-laden post lowers your credibility even further.

Insults??? Have you no idea what your friends have been up to? Aggravated assault and robbery on the elderly carries more decency, integrity and moral fibre than what the Greens are capable of doing to advance their 'cause' - Insults to the intelligence maybe....

Delegates also voted down a separate motion to reject the Government's legislation on the National Assets Management Agency, by two to one.

The two votes remove any doubt about the party staying in Government.

On the Programme for Government, 523 (84%) voted yes against 16% who voted no. The total poll was 624, with two spoiled votes.

- At this stage if Fianna Fail suggested a Nuclear Power Plant, situated on the Hill of Tara, run by the Taliban with a waste chute running through Gormley's back garden before dumping radioactive matter into Killary Harbour the Greens would pout pensively and then bargain for 5 extra Dublin Buses run on sesame oil and offer to host the incinerators in one of Dan Boyles Holiday homes.....

djpbarry wrote: »

I think the wildly inaccurate (and not at all sensationalist) thread title may well have convinced a number of would-be contributors that the argument conveyed there-in is nonsense. Which it is.

But seeing as you mention ‘ignoring content’, have posts #2 – 46 registered with you yet? Any chance of acknowledging some of the arguments presented by other posters rather than repeating the same accusations over-and-over from your entrenched ‘the Greens have no principles’ position?

To be fair I honestly do assume that the pro-Badger responses on this thread were all well-intentioned, accurate and grounded in fact.

I can assure you though that if I printed off posts no. 2-46 and brought them down to the overcrowded Hospital Corridors, into the Dole Offices, put them on the desk of the Business Owners who can't get Bank credit, into the 'School' where the wind whistles through the Prefabs, showed them to Joe Taxpayer who pays for the privilege to park in his work car park that I'd have a hard time explaining to them that The Green Party's principles are worthy of any respect, support or, God forbid, encouragement.

- Theres a world outside the isolation Chamber of the Green Cocoon & its happening without you.......

P.S. I voted for the Greens in the last Elections; I cannot relate the Election promises, family friendly policy or even clean, honest, decent political stance with what we have all been sickened by almost on a daily basis since those ill-gotten ballot slips were harvested by greedy little Green fingers.

Shame on you all - This is going to get a lot worse before ye get ejected and written up historically as an example of the 'power corrupts' concept and held up as an example for all.

djpbarry

Raiser wrote: »

I can assure you though that if I printed off posts no. 2-46 and brought them down to the overcrowded Hospital Corridors, into the Dole Offices, put them on the desk of the Business Owners who can't get Bank credit, into the 'School' where the wind whistles through the Prefabs, showed them to Joe Taxpayer who pays for the privilege to park in his work car park that I'd have a hard time explaining to them that The Green Party's principles are worthy of any respect, support or, God forbid, encouragement.

Have the Greens prioritised badger vaccinations above all else? I think you’ll find that they have not. You seem to be placing a tremendous amount of significance upon one small element of a ‘leaked’ document.

Raiser wrote: »

Shame on you all...

Eh, who you talking to?