foreshore shooting license lakes

amateurgun

can any1 tell me are all lakes covered on the foreshore license and can you go into any gun clubs area

cavan shooter

amateurgun wrote: »

can any1 tell me are all lakes covered on the foreshore license and can you go into any gun clubs area

No not every lake they are listed on the licence. As for club grounds, its the fore shore your on so there shouldnt be a problem (in theory) I have heard of lads having run ins on lakes in cavan

foxshooter243

amateurgun wrote: »

can any1 tell me are all lakes covered on the foreshore license and can you go into any gun clubs area

The foreshore permit only allows you to shoot on the foreshore or state lakes that are named on your permit, you must access these areas by public rights of way- therefore you shouldnt be interfering in other gun clubs signed permissions, and the foreshore licence certainly isnt a licence to go where you want!

johngalway

Surely as the foreshore is owned by the State, and presuming a license is granted, it doesn't matter a damn who's got permission on the land. Reads to me as long as you can get to the foreshore by, as you say, public right of way, or consent of a landowner, there isn't a great deal a gunclub could do about it?

Dusty87

johngalway wrote: »

Surely as the foreshore is owned by the State, and presuming a license is granted, it doesn't matter a damn who's got permission on the land. Reads to me as long as you can get to the foreshore by, as you say, public right of way, or consent of a landowner, there isn't a great deal a gunclub could do about it?

I would think most of the state lakes would have public access. Picnic area's and such. Make sure you dont walk by children wit a handful of ducks:):-)

Our man in Havana

You are 100% correct. I have heard of problems where gun clubs also have foreshore licences.

deerhunter1

amateurgun wrote: »

can any1 tell me are all lakes covered on the foreshore license and can you go into any gun clubs area

when you apply for your foreshore permit put down what lakes and areas you want to shoot belonging to the state and they will put it on the permit,even if you may not use a place put it on and cover your arse in case you might sometime go there

meathstevie

Bond-007 wrote: »

You are 100% correct. I have heard of problems where gun clubs also have foreshore licences.

You're absolutely right if you're talking about for example an NARGC affiliated club secretary applying for a foreshore licence for all his club members but that still doesn't take away from the fact that the NPWS can grant a foreshore licence to whomever they see fit to grant one to.

foxshooter243

meathstevie wrote: »

You're absolutely right if you're talking about for example an NARGC affiliated club secretary applying for a foreshore licence for all his club members but that still doesn't take away from the fact that the NPWS can grant a foreshore licence to whomever they see fit to grant one to.

But there shouldnt be any crossover MS, state lakes are property of the state and n most cases gun clubs are shooting over private property.There realy cant be any confusion over "shooting territory", I mean the state like any landowner can give permission to anyone to shoot over their lands , lakes or foreshore and every citizen in Ireland is entitled to enjoy that right to state lands-regardless of where they are.:)

pedroeibar

foxshooter243 wrote: »

The foreshore permit only allows you to shoot on the foreshore or state lakes that are named on your permit, you must access these areas by public rights of way- therefore you shouldnt be interfering in other gun clubs signed permissions, and the foreshore licence certainly isnt a licence to go where you want!

I agree with you FS.
I don’t agree with some of the other answers. It’s my understanding that a shooter who enters on the land of another to take any wild animals is liable to the owner for armed trespass and for the animals killed. This is a criminal offense.

Usually the land around the lake determines the ownership of the lake, with the boundaries extending into the centre of the lake. If the lake is tidal, the foreshore is between High and Low tidemarks; otherwise it is between the winter & summer lake levels. The State owns the foreshore and can, like any owner, sell/grant permissions. BUT they cannot grant access over private property, including the lake. Unless the State owns the surrounding land and you shoot a duck over the lake it belongs to the owner of that part of the lake, and retrieving it is trespass.

In cases other than when the State owns the surrounding land, I believe that you would have to use a right of way to get to the lake, shoot the duck from the foreshore when it's over the foreshore and have it fall dead on the foreshore for a State permit to cover you.

If a local gun club is feeding the lake and a shooter is there without permission, he would deserve everything they did to him!
FWIW
P.

meathstevie

Foxshooter, I think I need to clarify a bit. If a gunclub secretary applies for all the members of a club it's merely a bunch of applications sent to NPWS at the same time. It doesn't give a club any rights above those of any individual in possession of a foreshore licence.

Pedroeibar, I think you're making a mistake in relation to ownership of wild animals. They're not owned by anyone until someone reduces them to property by killing or trapping them in a legally acceptable way. For example a law abiding hunter shooting a wild pheasant with a shotgun : the pheasant is property of the person who successfully hunted it and no one else. As for state owned lakes I believe that's exactly what they are : state owned.

foxshooter243

meathstevie wrote: »

Foxshooter, I think I need to clarify a bit. If a gunclub secretary applies for all the members of a club it's merely a bunch of applications sent to NPWS at the same time. It doesn't give a club any rights above those of any individual in possession of a foreshore licence.

Pedroeibar, I think you're making a mistake in relation to ownership of wild animals. They're not owned by anyone until someone reduces them to property by killing or trapping them in a legally acceptable way. For example a law abiding hunter shooting a wild pheasant with a shotgun : the pheasant is property of the person who successfully hunted it and no one else. As for state owned lakes I believe that's exactly what they are : state owned.

I completely agree with you there MS, with a foreshore permit you are only entitled to shoot where the permit specifies-same as every other man in reciept of one. The last time I applied for a foreshore permit on behalf of one of my clubs , it was a single application naming the club and not the members though-the club members needed to carry a photocopy of the original and their NARGC card in case challenged.:)

pedroeibar

meathstevie wrote: »

Pedroeibar, I think you're making a mistake in relation to ownership of wild animals. They're not owned by anyone until someone reduces them to property by killing or trapping them in a legally acceptable way. For example a law abiding hunter shooting a wild pheasant with a shotgun : the pheasant is property of the person who successfully hunted it and no one else. As for state owned lakes I believe that's exactly what they are : state owned.

[font=&quot]MS it is not that simple. You now mention "law abiding" which is different to what the OP was suggesting and brings a different slant to the topic. (not that I'm calling him a poacher!:D )
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[font=&quot]I agree that you cannot “own” wild game so the only remedy against a poacher is trespass or armed trespass. (The exception being the young of wild animals – they belong to the landowner until they are old enough to run/fly away, so taking them is theft.) However, ownership of the dead game is complex. If, when poaching, I flush a pheasant on your land and shoot it, it belongs to you. If I flush it on your land and kill it over Foxy’s land, I have a strong case in saying it belongs to me because it was not killed on your land and not flushed on Foxy’s. However, I leave myself open to prosecution for trespass by both you and Foxy.
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[font=&quot]If the State or anyone else owns a lake and gives you permission to shoot over it, there is no problem provided you stay within the bounds of your permission. You would have legal issues were you to retrieve shot game from another’s land and it would be best to leave your gun behind when retrieving it as this would reduce the charges you could be open to. I’m not a lawyer, but once had occasion to look into this. [/font]
Rs
P.

touchyie

johngalway wrote: »

Surely as the foreshore is owned by the State, and presuming a license is granted, it doesn't matter a damn who's got permission on the land. Reads to me as long as you can get to the foreshore by, as you say, public right of way, or consent of a landowner, there isn't a great deal a gunclub could do about it?

I agree John, and the problem is some gunclubs wont accept new members, i tried to join my local gun club last year, but because i wasnt part of the click I was fobbed off and told i couldnt join. soooo i went and got the foreshore licence and also the permission from the land owners to shoot on the land. i was tackled by the club one day, i simply explained i had offered to join and was refused so I went and got direct permission from the landowner, they could have easily taken my money and had me in the club helping out, instead they took a different route... i shoot the same land and the same birds on that land but they dont have the benefit of having me as a member. even if they asked me to join now i would not as they have soured me. I am an active member in a gun club in another parish and we have a much more welcoming approach...
sorry about the rant but ****e like this really gets up my nose...

johngalway

Not sure if people were confused by part of my reply or not, so I'll clarify it anyway. When I said it didn't matter who had permission over the land, I was not inferring that someone on the foreshore could shoot over the land above the high water mark from the foreshore. But, that they could from the foreshore shoot over the foreshore and the body of water included on the permit.

meathstevie

pedroeibar wrote: »

[font=&quot]MS it is not that simple. You now mention "law abiding" which is different to what the OP was suggesting and brings a different slant to the topic. (not that I'm calling him a poacher!:D )
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[font=&quot]I agree that you cannot “own” wild game so the only remedy against a poacher is trespass or armed trespass. (The exception being the young of wild animals – they belong to the landowner until they are old enough to run/fly away, so taking them is theft.) However, ownership of the dead game is complex. If, when poaching, I flush a pheasant on your land and shoot it, it belongs to you. If I flush it on your land and kill it over Foxy’s land, I have a strong case in saying it belongs to me because it was not killed on your land and not flushed on Foxy’s. However, I leave myself open to prosecution for trespass by both you and Foxy.
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[font=&quot]If the State or anyone else owns a lake and gives you permission to shoot over it, there is no problem provided you stay within the bounds of your permission. You would have legal issues were you to retrieve shot game from another’s land and it would be best to leave your gun behind when retrieving it as this would reduce the charges you could be open to. I’m not a lawyer, but once had occasion to look into this. [/font]
Rs
P.

That's why I wrote law abiding Pedro. As in not out of season and where you have permission. But I stick to my guns, no one owns wild animals of no matter what age unless they are reduced into property by lawful hunting and trapping. As for retrieving that indeed is different question and an ounce of common sense goes a long way there.

As an illustration off how "unstraightforward" things can be sometimes. We for example have a chunk of land in the middle of our club lands who's owner - who's a genuinely sound man - does not allow shooting over it ( rather self explanatory as he breads thorough bred horses on the farm ) but doesn't mind us walking accross it to get from one permission to another as long as you don't discharge a firearm on his land or near his horses.

foxshooter243

meathstevie wrote: »

That's why I wrote law abiding Pedro. As in not out of season and where you have permission. But I stick to my guns, no one owns wild animals of no matter what age unless they are reduced into property by lawful hunting and trapping. As for retrieving that indeed is different question and an ounce of common sense goes a long way there.

As an illustration off how "unstraightforward" things can be sometimes. We for example have a chunk of land in the middle of our club lands who's owner - who's a genuinely sound man - does not allow shooting over it ( rather self explanatory as he breads thorough bred horses on the farm ) but doesn't mind us walking accross it to get from one permission to another as long as you don't discharge a firearm on his land or near his horses.

your forgetting MS that any"wild animal" is defined in the wildlife act 2000
as any animal which lives independantly of any human care or husbandry, so in the case of a gun club rearing ducks on a lake , these are property until they are released and cease to be cared for by the club.;):)

meathstevie

That's ok foxshooter, when I said wild animals I meant wild animals as in living in the wild and fending for themselves.

pedroeibar

meathstevie wrote: »

That's ok foxshooter, when I said wild animals I meant wild animals as in living in the wild and fending for themselves.

The OP asked "can any1 tell me are all lakes covered on the foreshore license and can you go into any gun clubs area " The answer to which is "No" and "No."

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[FONT=&quot]MS, we are getting further from the OP’s question with every post possibly because you are not being precise, as you “clarify” repeatedly.
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[FONT=&quot] Using your last post above, for example, it could be inferred that duck raised on a Lake with feeders are not fending for themselves and are not “wild” which is not the case. They are wild once they are out of the pen area . Nor does the OP have the right to shoot them or even be there without the proper permissions.:D[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rs[/FONT]
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meathstevie

Since the state owns the specified lakes and stretches of coast and river - contact NPWS for a complete list - you can shoot on and over the foreshore if you have a foreshore licence and a properly licenced shotgun.

You can not trespass to get to it but whether or not a local gunclub shoots the area or not doesn't matter as long as you don't trespass or shoot over their permissions. The NPWS has given you permission to shoot the specific tracts of state property. What more permission could you possibly need.

As for gunclubs rearing and releasing ducks on a state lake subject to foreshore permission open to anyone with a shotgun licence is probably a touch too costly and generous for most clubs. If some clubs did exactly that they were extremely naive to expect that other people wouldn't notice the ducks and have a go at them.

Be carefull to get an up to date list though, some locations have dropped of the list over the years. For example the Swords estuary used to be on it but has disappeared of it.