Donegal say's No

greeno

I said about 15% but they got hardly any transfers unlike the other parties which shows that yes there is a support there for them. The suggestions on here seem to be that the No vote was due to a huge SF influence, which believe me does not exist in Donegal politics.

Technique

The difference between the Yes vote and the No vote in Donegal came down to only a couple of hundred people.

You would think by some of the reaction that everyone in onegal voted No.

K-9

greeno wrote: »

I said about 15% but they got hardly any transfers unlike the other parties which shows that yes there is a support there for them. The suggestions on here seem to be that the No vote was due to a huge SF influence, which believe me does not exist in Donegal politics.

It also shows the lack of a real alternative.

muffler

Technique wrote: »

You would think by some of the reaction that everyone in onegal voted No.

The majority did though.

K-9

muffler wrote: »

The majority did though.

1,000 votes, only needed a 500 vote swing. I thought it would be at least 60/40 No.

All that was needed for No Divorce was a 5,000 swing vote Nationally.

mrmac

greeno - I've re-read this thread again, and I can't find the SF influence bit you've mentioned. Only once did someone ask if it was a possible factor.

Strangely, there is no suggestion of any political influence, by any party! In fact, it appears, from what people have stated, that they voted based on what they believed was right, and not on what they where told. Either way, YES or NO, was a personal decision. It certainly was for me; no political party swayed my vote.

This personal decision making, may be why people continue to vote for the same candidates. Rightly, or wrongely, they believe their candidate will do a good job. It could be a belief that someone else, woudn't do a better job!?

In the last few elections, I voted for people who I believed would/could do the best job, not on what party they where in.

JupiterKid

Hmmmm - didn't Donegal have the higest No vote against divorce in the 1995 referendum? And also the highest against travel and information on abortion in the 1992 (not 1994 BTW) referendum?

And didn't opinion polls show that 75% of people surveyed in Donegal - by far the higest in the country - opposed the decriminalisation of homosexuality in 1993?

Whereas in Dublin the above figures were almost the opposite? Doesn't that say something?

That Donegal might - just might - not be the most socially progressive county in Ireland and that, in addition to the popular sentiment of being the "forgotten" county, the No vote majority result was strongly influenced by the Coir/Youth Defence religious right wing element?

mrmac

lol!
Actually, maybe you're right!
I can only speak for myself, and I don't know anyone who's associated with Coir/Youth Defence. I don't even know who you're talking about, so I can't add anything to that.

You mention figures that are 17 years old. A lot has changed since then.
Again, I can only speak for me, and not the county.

I voted against Divorce in the first referendum, because I felt it had too many loopholes, and wasn't a solid piece of legislature. I voted for Divorce in the next referendum, because I felt most of my previous concerns had been addressed.

(BTW- I believe Donegal returned 59% of NO votes for divorce in 1995. Tipperary North, Mayo East, Laois/Offaly, Kerry North, Kerry South, Galway East, Cork South West, Cork North West and Cavan/Monaghan - all had a higher percentage of NO votes.)

I like to make my own, informed, decisions, so I took the time to read up on the Lisbon Treaty. I voted NO the first time, for various reasons. I voted NO the second time, because my concerns where still there.

muffler

Can I remind people (again) that the thread is about the Donegal NO vote to the Lisbon Treaty referendum - nothing to do with referendums from years ago on other matters.

Its a good thread and it would be a pity to have to lock it for continuous off topic posting.

JupiterKid

mrmac wrote: »

(BTW- I believe Donegal returned 59% of NO votes for divorce in 1995. Tipperary North, Mayo East, Laois/Offaly, Kerry North, Kerry South, Galway East, Cork South West, Cork North West and Cavan/Monaghan - all had a higher percentage of NO votes.)

I stand corrected. I'd been told that Donegal had the highest percentage of No votes in 1995 to divorce - my source must have been wrong.

I like to make my own, informed, decisions, so I took the time to read up on the Lisbon Treaty. I voted NO the first time, for various reasons. I voted NO the second time, because my concerns where still there.

But why did Donegal return a majority No vote to Lisbon II when other western seaboard counties - like Kerry and Mayo - had clear Yes majorities? I noticed that Donegal's percentage of Yes votes to Nice II was among the lowest in the country.

And I believe Donegal's neighbours - Sligo and Leitrim also delivered clear Yes percentages - in the 60s? As did its RoI Ulster counterparts Cavan and Monaghan. So what made Donegal different? That's what I'd like to find out.

Could it be the fisheries issue/EU fisheries policy? I know Killybegs is one of the most important fishing ports in the country.

mrmac

Jakers, 34K Donegal folks voted NO in 2008, 31K in 2009 - you might end up with 31k different reasons!

It'd be more interesting to see why people changed their vote! I heard someone on the radio say, that they voted yes this time, because last time they voted no and look at the mess the country is in! Maybe by voting yes, things will get better.

That's another topic altogether!

If only one, long term benefit, has come from this, then maybe it's the value of peoples vote! I see an extra 202,000 people voted this time around. Up nearly 6%. That's a great increase. I'm a bit of a pain in the butt in my family, encouraging my lot to vote. No point in complaining, if you don't vote.

muffler

People say it was a protest vote but was it based on the new movie by Quentin Tarantino

greeno

Pique wrote: »

The NO vote hasn't got anything to do with the historical influence of the Shinners in Donegal then, no ?

slickmcvic wrote: »

.....who's gonna take the credit for donegal's NO vote....SF or Ganley?
... i reckon it was a protest vote, in a way, Donegal benefitted way less from the Celtic Tiger and EU funding than the rest of the country and in a way yis can't be punished because the place is that neglected already!

irish_goat wrote: »

2007 General Election: Donegal North East[6] Party Candidate 1st Pref % Seat Count
Fine Gael Joe McHugh 8,711 22.6 1 5
Fianna Fáil Jim McDaid 6,724 17.4 2 7
Fianna Fáil Niall Blaney 6.288 16.3 3 8
Sinn Féin Pádraig MacLochlainn 6,733 17.5


They're very close to getting that last seat.

mrmac wrote: »

greeno - I've re-read this thread again, and I can't find the SF influence bit you've mentioned. Only once did someone ask if it was a possible factor.

Strangely, there is no suggestion of any political influence, by any party! In fact, it appears, from what people have stated, that they voted based on what they believed was right, and not on what they where told. Either way, YES or NO, was a personal decision. It certainly was for me; no political party swayed my vote.

This personal decision making, may be why people continue to vote for the same candidates. Rightly, or wrongely, they believe their candidate will do a good job. It could be a belief that someone else, woudn't do a better job!?

In the last few elections, I voted for people who I believed would/could do the best job, not on what party they where in.

3 people tried to imply SF's influence in the vote all I simply did was rubbish this as it is clearly not the case. I don't see the harm in this?

I voted No as I believed it was wrong for Ireland and I believe as you have stated that Donegal people voted with thier heads and not in allegiance to any political party.

mrmac

greeno - I agree with you, completely! I'm just trying to point out that Pique asked if there was a connection. I think slickmcvic remark was more a slaging for SF/Ganley than trying to suggest they influenced the vote. Even irish_goat post shows that SF does have some base support, but not enough to influence the entire county.

I'd be very surprised to think that the national concensus on this, was that Donegal voted NO because of any sort of SF connection/allegiance - that's ridiculous!

I, like you, am delighted to see that the majority of folks who've posted on this thread, are clever enough to use their own judgement.

BTW - you should have a google for reasons why people changed their vote to a YES.
It makes some funny, if not disappointing, reading!

irish1967

Having read all the above posts I think it is fair to say that it was a combination of reasons why we ended up returning a No result. None of the above reaons in themselves should be singled out as the only one. Historical, cultural and political influence all converged in this vote to give our unique result.

a. Yes we are stuck away up here in the northwest and there undoubtedly those in power down in the big smoke who look on our distant land as just that - a distant land. The the thing is... we know that. There are those up here in NOver NOver Land who are just fed up with voting for change and never seeing any good come from it. Many of those may have voted NO.

b. There are those who wanted to stick their fingers up at FF for making a mess of the country as they see it. They voted NO.

c. There are those who studied the treaty itself and decided that it was not a good option for the country. They voted NO

d. There is a percentage of people in the county who are SF supporters and they followed their party's line and voted NO.

e. They are those (and you would be surprised how many I think) who just had no idea what the treaty was about and rather than vote yes for something they just didn't understand. They voted NO.

Now I am sure there are those that will say that many of these reasons could be applied to any constituancy in the country and well maybe so. It just so happens however that they combined in the right numbers in the both areas of Donegal to produce the, as it turned out, unique result.

Therefore I dont think that any of the posts in this thread are wholely wrong in their reasoning but I also don't think that any reason can be taken on its own.

mrmac

Well said.

I would add one other possibility.

People voted NO simply because they felt offended that we where being made vote for a second time.

I know of a few people who would've fallen into the "I don't know what the treaty is about, so I'm voting NO" group, for the first referendum. These folks, still haven't a clue what the treaty was about, and still voted NO, because they're too thran to be "pushed about"

K-9

The 2 main reasons the Yes side won was the economy and the poor No campaign.

I don't believe that 17.5% is a solid SF base but that, combined with the old Independent FF vote would be prone to the SF .8% poster, regardless of truth.

The €200 Billion Fisheries posters would be more important here again, regardless of truth.

PS. SF voters tend to follow the party line more than other parties, including FF.

Noreen1

puffdragon wrote: »

This is Nigel Farage .I'd say he's spent some time with Declan Ganley by the sounds of him!! and his opinion of the 70 30 split on campaign spending might have something to do with Donegal .I wasn't approached by one Fiana Fail canvasser during the whole campaign ,maybe they threw it away themselves because they were afraid to come to the doors !!




<SNIP, trash removal>[/quote

I wasn't approached by any canvassers at all!:D:D

Maybe I need to stop asking questions about party policy when canvassers appear on my doorstep:p:p. Most canvassers are amazed at being asked a question, anyway.LOL

Noreen

puffdragon

George hook is doing a countrywide tour to find out what ordinary people think we can do about the crisis,some comfort i suppose in hearing the same feelings from the opposite end of the country,george also makes refference to 1916 and where has our pride gone. Its not an insurection we need but a quiet revolution quick!!

http://newstalk.ie/newstalk/programmes/6/the-right-hook.html

alfranken

muffler wrote: »

Can I remind people (again) that the thread is about the Donegal NO vote to the Lisbon Treaty referendum - nothing to do with referendums from years ago on other matters.

Its a good thread and it would be a pity to have to lock it for continuous off topic posting.

puffdragon

Let me explain,If you listen to the witness of the people who took part in George Hooks meeting (about half way through the programme) you can hear the very same complaints and grievances as we have here ourselves,so by a process of elimination the overriding reason we voted no wasn't a wide range of things but two glaringly obvious ones; Isolation and a poor campaign by Fiana Fail, Understand? I'll unsubscribe from this thread now bye bye!!

Arion24

trafada wrote: »

Why? As a protest to the EU why don't you stop using the new roads that were built over the years?

Are you actually suggesting not to physically touch the roads if you are opposed to the the Lisbon Treaty?
Can we at least have dreams about them please?

Donegal voted no and for once I was proud of the county (given the amount of car shams and general shams and nonsense goes on here pride is a rare moment).
There were no disputes during the count of the ballot boxes in Donegal, no disputes that were related to the actual voting. We were in and out in record time and it was a resounding "No".
Any joy we had was obviously silenced when we heard the rest of Ireland voted yes.

Let me just say this:
What happened when we voted the second time for the Nice Treaty (even though we shouldn't have had to) and we said 'Yes'.

I believe the Recession here happened.

We don't have a democracy or a republic, we're now officially under the heels of Europe. They'll call us when they need some **** picked up. We are not even 100 years free of English rule and now we're firmly under the control of the E.U. Gotta love Ireland.