What won it for the Yes side?

PrivateEye

Free Jobs, Instant Recovery, Tony Blairs lovely smile, Those cute young things from Generation Ógra.

Rb

Antrim_Man wrote: »

LMAO The Yes vote lost the last time but never accepted the result, now that is serious sore losers.

Actually, I believe you'll find they did accept the vote, then asked people why they voted against it, brought those reasons to Europe and got assurances in the form of legally binding guarantees and we got to vote again, with said guarantees, and the people of Ireland passed it.

If you want, the No voters are welcome to come up with a few valid, treaty based reasons and get a party elected that not only believe in those reasons, but will run a third referendum based on them. I'll happily hit the booths and vote in favour of the treaty again.

caseyann

marco_polo wrote: »

I am sorry but rolleyes just don't cut it.

Any source that shows any Yes campaign group that attributed the recession to a no vote last time out.

I know a few who attributes a Yes vote on the EU constitution with a 18% unemployment in spain but that is all.

You misunderstood what i said;) I merely pointed out the sudden drop after the last vote and said how bizarre.Where did you find me saying that yes said that was reason.

Now can i roll eyes

Rb

marco_polo: caseyann doesn't do sources. If she finds something that suits her "argument", she'll copy/paste and pass it off as her own. If not, she'll make statements and then back track when called up on it.

PaulieD

Rb wrote: »

Run Paulie! The Slavs are coming!

They have been for over five years, and well you know it. Stop trying to ridicule others.

caseyann

Rb wrote: »

I like how the No voters who themselves couldn't find a legitimate reason to vote against the treaty just have to believe that those who voted Yes couldn't have had legitimate reasons also. Petty, pathetic, desperate nonsense.

It's clear why we voted Yes and fear has little to do with it, an immense amount less than those who were terrified of abortion, conscription, control of our taxation etc and voted against the treaty as a consequence last time.

Time to face facts guys, sense prevailed and Ireland and Europe have benefitted from it.

Maybe if you finally manage to find a flaw in the treaty, though you've failed so far, you could all get together and rally your local TD"s about it. Until then, stop being such sore losers.

You can count me out of that sore losers thing i am still very happy

Just merely pointing out what people seriously alot alot of them are saying.Because lets face it even if it is good move they still didn't understand it.

Notice i did not say you didnt and good for you having your reasons to vote yes/In the long run people are voting for how they feel about it be it whether you agree with them or not.

caseyann

Rb wrote: »

marco_polo: caseyann doesn't do sources. If she finds something that suits her "argument", she'll copy/paste and pass it off as her own. If not, she'll make statements and then back track when called up on it.

So how is plain obvious in our face what happened not proof enough to what i said? Ireland voted NO last year and within small space of time it all fell to pieces.I never once said yes side said that

K-9

PaulieD wrote: »

We are polar opposites in fact. Iceland realised that they did not want to throw their national sovereignty away just for an EU bailout. They will get out of their current predicament quicker than we will get out of ours, and still be a sovereign independent nation.

Do you realise how fecked they are?

Rb

caseyann wrote: »

So how is plain obvious in our face what happened not proof enough to what i said? Ireland voted NO last year and within small space of time it all fell to pieces.I never once said yes side said that

So, because the economy got worse, which can be linked to several different legitimate things, it automatically means that the EU were somehow trying to punish us? And that is supposed to be obvious?

You do realise we have a conspiracy theory forum here, right? Because this is what a conspiracy theory is made of, co-incidences and lots of mad theories with little evidence based on them.

PaulieD

K-9 wrote: »

Do you realise how fecked they are?

Yes, but we are in a much worse position.

caseyann

K-9 wrote: »

Surprised it was so close, a 500 vote swing and it would have been a Yes.

Point was he didn't pull it off in his own constituency not a good day for him

caseyann

Rb wrote: »

So, because the economy got worse, which can be linked to several different legitimate things, it automatically means that the EU were somehow trying to punish us? And that is supposed to be obvious?

You do realise we have a conspiracy theory forum here, right? Because this is what a conspiracy theory is made of, co-incidences and lots of mad theories with little evidence based on them.

Rb i wasn't making big deal out of it was just a obvious thing that happened after the vote which i thought was odd.

Turtwig

caseyann wrote: »

Rb i wasn't making big deal out of it was just a obvious thing that happened after the vote which i thought was odd.

An obvious thing that had been forecast well in advance is hardly odd when it happens..

Fuhrer

PaulieD wrote: »

Yes, but we are in a much worse position.

Are you serious?

caseyann

Malty_T wrote: »

An obvious thing that had been forecast well in advance is hardly odd when it happens..

And at how fast i do agree

PaulieD

Fuhrer wrote: »

Are you serious?

Deadly serious, unfortunately.

Fuhrer

PaulieD wrote: »

Deadly serious, unfortunately.

I think its unfortunate that you believe that.

sceptre

caseyann wrote: »

Rb i wasn't making big deal out of it was just a obvious thing that happened after the vote which i thought was odd.

"Post hoc ergo propter hoc" is one of the basic logical fallacies. Just because one thing follows another doesn't mean it's caused by the first event. It might be, but you need something more than it having happened after it. It's generally known as correlation not implying causation.

There's a nice explanation of the whole thing on the "cum hoc ergo propter hoc" wikipedia page if you're interested.

But either way, it's seriously into conspiracy theory land (and even at the extreme end of that where the wolves roam free and even conspiracy law breaks down) to think that the EU somehow took out the Irish economy (which had obviously been propped up on nothing since 2002 and plenty of posts here pointed that out from a few years ago on) and did a job on the world economy just to make sure that the Lisbon treaty went through the Irish electorate. It would have been cheaper for them just to buy the country (and not figuratively, the traditional sale and deed way).

Bandit12

Sad day for our country.

caseyann

sceptre wrote: »

"Post hoc ergo propter hoc" is one of the basic logical fallacies. Just because one thing follows another doesn't mean it's caused by the first event. It might be, but you need something more than it having happened after it. It's generally known as correlation not implying causation.

There's a nice explanation of the whole thing on the "cum hoc ergo propter hoc" wikipedia page if you're interested.

But either way, it's seriously into conspiracy theory land (and even at the extreme end of that where the wolves roam free) to think that the EU somehow took out the Irish economy (which had obviously been propped up on nothing since 2002 and plenty of posts here pointed that out from a few years ago on) and did a job on the world economy just to make sure that the Lisbon treaty went through the Irish electorate. It would have been cheaper for them just to buy the country (and not figuratively, the traditional sale and deed way).

I didnt say it was because just said was odd

Newtons third law:
''To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction:

WhiskeyTangoFox

The credit crunchie recession won it for the Yes side. Sure even News Channels are saying that. One Dead Celtic Tiger = poor worried Irish people Voting yes.

The No camp were brutal too but lets face it in the current economy there was only going to be a Yes vote.

marco_polo

Bandit12 wrote: »

Sad day for our country.

Copyright: Anthony Coughlan, May 10 1972.

sceptre

caseyann wrote: »

I didnt say it was because just said was odd

Newtons third law:
''To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction:

Erm, that only applies to classical mechanics I'm afraid, not sociology. Newton knew that rather well when he wrote it.

SineadLewis

The fact that the EU brought the country to its knees after the last vote. They then suggested that we get things right this time around before they backed off a bit.

Simple.

Fuhrer

SineadLewis wrote: »

Simple.

Yes, you are.

marco_polo

Posted again for those with troublesome eyesight

sceptre wrote: »

"Post hoc ergo propter hoc" is one of the basic logical fallacies. Just because one thing follows another doesn't mean it's caused by the first event. It might be, but you need something more than it having happened after it. It's generally known as correlation not implying causation.

There's a nice explanation of the whole thing on the "cum hoc ergo propter hoc" wikipedia page if you're interested.

But either way, it's seriously into conspiracy theory land (and even at the extreme end of that where the wolves roam free and even conspiracy law breaks down) to think that the EU somehow took out the Irish economy (which had obviously been propped up on nothing since 2002 and plenty of posts here pointed that out from a few years ago on) and did a job on the world economy just to make sure that the Lisbon treaty went through the Irish electorate. It would have been cheaper for them just to buy the country (and not figuratively, the traditional sale and deed way).

SineadLewis wrote: »

The fact that the EU brought the country to its knees after the last vote. They then suggested that we get things right this time around before they backed off a bit.

Simple.

biko

Lisbon 2 was well timed, people are tired of the recession now and will just about anything to make things go up again.
The Yes to Jobs campaign followed by "we never promised jobs" (after the votes were cast) would have tipped the scales for many I think.

Turtwig

caseyann wrote: »

Newtons third law:
''To every action there is always an equal and opposite reaction:

If that were 100% true in all action then there would be no action;)

Daftendirekt

I'd like to say people voted Yes because of the increased transparency and democracy in the EU's decision making process, and I'm sure that's true for some people; in particular, anyone who was swayed by following the debates here on Boards.

Realistically though, I think there were two main factors:

1. The guarantees on neutrality, taxation and the Commission.

2. The fact that Lisbon was supported by Ryanair, Intel, IBEC, ICTU, SIPTU, EUTUC, all the main political parties (possibly with the exception of Fianna Fáil), and a bunch of respected economists. As opposed to the people who were against Lisbon: Sinn Féin, the Socialists, Cóir, the Communists, UKIP, Ganley, etc.

puffdragon

They voted yes because they care about their families and friends and they wanted to be sure that we kept the money coming from europe unfortunately this was done at the expence of a vast and endless mountain of european red tape and I might say you will live to regret your decision when they start to reap our waters for tidal energy and pay us no tax because thanks to this referendom whats ours is theirs!, I on the other hand will not be here and the sooner I get out of this traitor ridden country the better, to think that I worked here and paid tax to a shower of crooks for over 30 years makes me sick to my stomach and whats worse is that every time we get a chance to oust them we're afraid to do it. well I feel betrayed and disgusted to think that I'm living in a nation of scardy cats who dont mind running down the government at every opportunity but when it comes to the crunch they cower out at the last and capitulate to bullies and liars!!

Sick!!