The irish economy forum / public service wages

MrMicra

I'd like to congratulate the moderators of the European Union forum for the way that they have managed to keep more light than heat in the debate over Lisbon.

The important issue of the civil service wages bill is currently and unfortunately generating heat without light which is regrettable because boards.ie has shown that it can be a useful resource and forum for constructive debate.

I would like to request the creation of a tough moderation policy on the irish economy forum in order to push on from a constant, aggressive, acrimonious and useless argument about the public sector wages bill that is taking up about 10 threaded discussions at the moment.

leninbenjamin

I'd like to bring this to the attention of the admins as well, although it's not just discussion of public sector wages that's a problem.

There's two big things missing from the Irish Economy Forum in my opinion that really hinder discussion:

a) A dedicated and clearly defined charter to outline the purpose of the forum

b) pro-active moderation (as opposed to reactive).

now, i don't mean to slight Scofflaw and co with above. In the past I've found them to be very efficient and effective when it comes to dealing with reported posts and blatant breaches of the politics charter. However, it seems to me their own personal interests lie outside the forum and they already have a huge amount on their plates due to the rest of the politics category. As a result moderation there seems to quite reactive, and discussions frequently have degenerated too far by the time there's an intervention. Perhaps a solution might be to introduce dedicated moderator for the forum (even if only temporary until it becomes more established).

Like in the OPs example discussion often tends to become chaotic. It's frequent to see loads of threads all discussing the same topic, conversations overlapping, and in many cases degenerating to the level of after hours style petty sniping that goes largely unchecked. At the moment it's public sector pay that dominates the forum, before it was NAMA, and before that there was a hell of a lot of anti-cowen rants. So it's not an isolated problem to certain topics.

To be blunt, the forum comes across as the bastard love child of After Hours and Economics that everyone has forgotten about. I really think the forum in it's current state is a bit aimless and I really would hope that the admins will have a look at the situation.

Économiste Monétaire

My 2 cent: Get a mod specifically for the Irish Economy forum (rather than the parent forum) and add a two-line charter (raison d'être: discussion of current economic affairs; rules: avoid ad hominem, see nesf's illustration).

Scofflaw

The other forums have suffered slightly by virtue of the insanity in the European Union forum, but we are now done with that, and will be better able to devote time to the other sub-forums.

cordially,
Scofflaw

nesf

I think a dedicated mod may be an idea. We'll have to discuss it though, so it may or may not happen.

sceptre

I've deleted the four most recent posts on this thread. Why? They're targetting/naming/highlighting/using as an example an individual member on the thread. Which isn't particularly helpful (even though I fully appreciate that it isn't meant maliciously), especially when that member then obviously and entirely legitimately feels the need to come and retort.

If the members who have had their posts deleted would like their contents PMed to them for rework and representation without the targetting/naming/highlighting/using as an example an individual member on the thread, they can get them by sending me a PM and I'll happily send the contents back to them.

Complaints about individual posts/posters get reported firstly through Reported posts ideally and can also be sent to the forum mods by PM. As later resorts for naming other posters as the source or continuance of a problem, I'd suggest PMing the soc cmod, one of the admins or by posting it on Help Desk. Given that two of you are using the member in question as an example, you can make your point without doing that. It's not fair on the member in question to do it as you have.

tallaght01

Could you not just have deleted the few offending lines? The feedback is for the mods of the forums, as opposed to us posting randomly for no reason.

You shouldn't make it difficult to provide feedback, especially when none of it was malicious.

DeVore

Do we need a dedicated mod or two in there? If so, can people put themselves forward or suggest to others that they put themselves forward?

DeV.

leninbenjamin

DeVore wrote: »

Do we need a dedicated mod or two in there?

I think so.

DeVore wrote: »

If so, can people put themselves forward or suggest to others that they put themselves forward?

Might be good to get someone active in the economics forum to do, so the economic agenda can be pushed a bit more. Maybe a twist to the arm of The Economist/Time Magazine or Economist Monetaire?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

MrMicra

I think donegalfella would be an excellent moderator. His political beliefs are quirky but he is intellectually honest and genuinely interested in the exchange of ideas.

there is a discussion in the political theory section about socialist anarchism in which he is insulted a couple of times but keeps his cool and encourages the discussion.

It is this discussion that made me think he would be a good moderator.

bonkey

DeVore wrote: »

Do we need a dedicated mod or two in there? If so, can people put themselves forward or suggest to others that they put themselves forward?

Another option is to add more Politics mods...but choosing people who'd be interested (at least initially) in keeping an eye on the current problemkind.

In 6 months, or a year, we'll have a hotspot, quite possibly somewhere else. Who knows...the US forum will go nuts, or the EU forum again...or there'll be a new politics forum, or, or, or...

By adding more Politics mods, we keep the flexibility to deal with whatever arises.

leninbenjamin

bonkey wrote: »

By adding more Politics mods, we keep the flexibility to deal with whatever arises.

I'm not sure this is the correct approach to take.

One of the major issues with the forum is not just the day to day housekeeping (such as preventing the duplicates, keeping discussions civil and constructive etc.), but the entire issue of subject matter.

By and large the Irish economy forum is increasingly becoming a hold all place for topics that aren't necessarily directly related to the functioning of our own economy, but that don't have a place elsewhere.

e.g:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055718754
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055719784
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055719549
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055722516

Secondly, even threads that are on topic have a tendency to veer into directions that would be more suited elsewhere. As a result the forum is really a mish-mash with no clear purpose. It really takes a dedicated mod to this out. The forum really needs to be carefully watched, at least in current times, as we're talking about issues very close to people's hearts and they tend to go off on a complete tandem if let go without watch. Casual modding from people with other responsibilities really doesn't agree with this.

bonkey

leninbenjamin wrote: »

I'm not sure this is the correct approach to take.

I'm not either. I just offered it as a possibility.

The argument that you make has merit, but I would respond by saying that you are effectively saying that the Irish Economy forum doesn't fit in the Politics structure...which raises another option. Move it from under the Politics "umbrella" and assign it its own team of mods.

Again...its just a possibility.

Villain

bonkey wrote: »

Another option is to add more Politics mods...but choosing people who'd be interested (at least initially) in keeping an eye on the current problemkind.

In 6 months, or a year, we'll have a hotspot, quite possibly somewhere else. Who knows...the US forum will go nuts, or the EU forum again...or there'll be a new politics forum, or, or, or...

By adding more Politics mods, we keep the flexibility to deal with whatever arises.

Makes sense Bonkey, I think we could have some very heated discussions after December 9th

DeVore

Since its under "politics" it inherits the flavour of the Politics of The Irish Economy... as opposed to say, our Economics forum under Science.

I like the idea of more specific mods for specific forums because it gives them a specific responsibility rather then just another general mod of everything. I can see Politics becoming a category in its own right in time, and maybe not that short a time either.

DeV.

leninbenjamin

DeVore wrote: »

Since its under "politics" it inherits the flavour of the Politics of The Irish Economy... as opposed to say, our Economics forum under Science.

Then should it? People seem to be using this as an excuse to allow discussion things that aren't particularly relevant to the functioning of the Irish Economy.

For example, people nattering on about how NAMA is just a bailout of the fat cats and how horrible Fianna Fail are for implementing it doesn't really fit with the title of the forum now doesn't it now? It's not really reflective of anything to do with the economy at large, but rather a discussion of the welfare implications of such an economic policy. Surely then such a discussion should be more at home in the main politics forum and the NAMA discussion in Irish economy should refer to the role of NAMA lifting us out of recession/recapitalising the banks/employment creation etc.

Maybe I'm being too pedantic here for some, but if we allow discussions relating to the economy to descend purely into the political, then what's the point of having a dedicated forum for the Irish economy?

edit: I understand Bonkey's point too, that did occur to me when i was writing the post of mine he quoted and to be honest i wouldn't mind if such a thing were to happen. But ultimately all I'm asking for here is for more of a distinction to be made between the content of the main politics forum, and the content of the Irish economy forum. I feel the Irish economy forum fails to function properly without this and will ultimately serve little purpose in the long run if the status quo remains.

FlutterinBantam

MrMicra wrote: »

I think donegalfella would be an excellent moderator. His political beliefs are quirky but he is intellectually honest and genuinely interested in the exchange of ideas.

there is a discussion in the political theory section about socialist anarchism in which he is insulted a couple of times but keeps his cool and encourages the discussion.

It is this discussion that made me think he would be a good moderator.

I'll second that,excellent lad.

Hang on till I dust the chalk dust of my gown:cool:

nesf

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Then should it? People seem to be using this as an excuse to allow discussion things that aren't particularly relevant to the functioning of the Irish Economy.

For example, people nattering on about how NAMA is just a bailout of the fat cats and how horrible Fianna Fail are for implementing it doesn't really fit with the title of the forum now doesn't it now? It's not really reflective of anything to do with the economy at large, but rather a discussion of the welfare implications of such an economic policy. Surely then such a discussion should be more at home in the main politics forum and the NAMA discussion in Irish economy should refer to the role of NAMA lifting us out of recession/recapitalising the banks/employment creation etc.

Maybe I'm being too pedantic here for some, but if we allow discussions relating to the economy to descend purely into the political, then what's the point of having a dedicated forum for the Irish economy?

edit: I understand Bonkey's point too, that did occur to me when i was writing the post of mine he quoted and to be honest i wouldn't mind if such a thing were to happen. But ultimately all I'm asking for here is for more of a distinction to be made between the content of the main politics forum, and the content of the Irish economy forum. I feel the Irish economy forum fails to function properly without this and will ultimately serve little purpose in the long run if the status quo remains.

You can't discuss the present economic conditions in a popular sense without politics coming into it. I know what you're saying but it's a very very tricky line to draw.

nesf

leninbenjamin wrote: »

Might be good to get someone active in the economics forum to do, so the economic agenda can be pushed a bit more. Maybe a twist to the arm of The Economist/Time Magazine or Economist Monetaire?

I like serious economic discussion of issues but the idea behind the forum was for a more general place to discuss economy related issues (rather than the nitty gritty of the economy itself!) for people who couldn't tell you the difference between GNP and GDP without us economics nerds talking in jargon around them.