Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Secret Federalists

Options
135

Comments

  • Options
    #62
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    The Corinthian wrote: »
    That it is a thread about European federalism is probably on people's minds.

    Sorry rephrase :D People agreeing with USE and thinking a good idea :eek:What is going through their minds:confused::D


  • Options
    #63
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    marco_polo wrote: »
    It is not a great mystery really. A minority of people are isolationalists, another minority of people are federalists, the vast majority of people are to be found in somewhere in between.

    Where do you stand marco?


  • Options
    #64
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    caseyann wrote: »
    Sorry rephrase :D People agreeing with USE and thinking a good idea :eek:What is going through their minds:confused::D

    like this guy


  • Options
    #65
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    like this guy

    Hey ei.sdraob how is life :)

    I read that when you posted he is pure nutter,i wouldnt listen to him or any of the others if they paid me 500 grand a year or would i :o

    No in all seriousness its an form of communism and Hitler ideology.


  • Options
    #66
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    caseyann wrote: »
    Hey ei.sdraob how is life :)

    I read that when you posted he is pure nutter,i wouldnt listen to him or any of the others if they paid me 500 grand a year or would i :o

    No in all seriousness its an form of communism and Hitler ideology.

    No, in all seriousness, it's not.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #67
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    No, in all seriousness, it's not.


    Are you saying Hitler was not trying to make a one Europe government?
    In the Balkans among other European countries they can not get on at all.Ethnic cleansing is a thing of the present in meant to be modern countries,and people think they will bow down to an outside government and all get on?


  • Options
    #68
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    caseyann wrote: »
    Where do you stand marco?

    Somewhere in the middle, probably not too far much further down the road than where we stand post Lisbon I think.

    Currently I cannot concieve of too many additional areas that I would be happy for the EU to move into. And judging but the limited number and scope of competencies (4) added by this treaty such as Energy policy, I think the majority of member states feel the same way as well.

    In any case I have a feeling that any more major changes to the EU treaties are be at least a decade or more away.

    If or when the time comes, as always I shall consider the options carefully. :)


  • Options
    #69
    PopeBuckfastXVI
    Registered Users Posts: 5,155 ✭✭✭PopeBuckfastXVI


    caseyann wrote: »
    Are you saying Hitler was not trying to make a one Europe government?
    In the Balkans among other European countries they can not get on at all.Ethnic cleansing is a thing of the present in meant to be modern countries,and people think they will bow down to an outside government and all get on?

    Hitler was a fascist dictator, seeking to set up an aryan empire with himself as emperor. Why not call federalism Julian, or Napoleonic or any other ill fitting, ill conceived analogy?

    Real federalism is about recognising the bonds that join us, while retaining our identities, and joining together to become better than the sum of our parts.

    A federal Europe is no more an 'outside' government than an Irish government sitting in Dublin making the various counties 'bow down'.


  • Options
    #70
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    caseyann wrote: »
    Are you saying Hitler was not trying to make a one Europe government?
    In the Balkans among other European countries they can not get on at all.Ethnic cleansing is a thing of the present in meant to be modern countries,and people think they will bow down to an outside government and all get on?

    If you can't see the difference between several countries voluntarily sharing sovereignty and one country conquering several other countries then really I don't know what you're smoking but you should share it with the others.


  • Options
    #71
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    nesf wrote: »
    If you can't see the difference between several countries voluntarily sharing sovereignty and one country conquering several other countries then really I don't know what you're smoking but you should share it with the others.

    Yes and they all get on together and put their past behind them for one sovereignty .Half of them only got out from under a tyrannical regime and only newly obtained independence,and they are going to give that up:confused:

    Pass me what you are smoking :D

    Me thinks i like how it is they stay out of our country business and we stay out of theirs unless its unjust.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #72
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    caseyann wrote: »
    Yes and they all get on together and put their past behind them for one sovereignty .Half of them only got out from under a tyrannical regime and only newly obtained independence,and they are going to give that up:confused:

    But they choose to give it up which is the important part. It's what makes a truly federal USE so unlikely.


  • Options
    #73
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    PopeBuckfastXVI wrote: »
    Hitler was a fascist dictator, seeking to set up an aryan empire with himself as emperor. Why not call federalism Julian, or Napoleonic or any other ill fitting, ill conceived analogy?

    Real federalism is about recognising the bonds that join us, while retaining our identities, and joining together to become better than the sum of our parts.

    A federal Europe is no more an 'outside' government than an Irish government sitting in Dublin making the various counties 'bow down'.

    What is an aryan empire comprise of? Hitler had only biggest hatred towards Jews wasn't it?
    Was it not he based the colour of hair and eyes as been superior to others but in no way did he kill all on the premise.
    He had a dream of controlling Europe under him and setting his ideologies and beliefs on others.Same thing as USE


  • Options
    #74
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    nesf wrote: »
    But they choose to give it up which is the important part. It's what makes a truly federal USE so unlikely.


    I agree very unlikely thank god :) all for getting on and helping each other out,but rest should be left alone.


  • Options
    #75
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    caseyann wrote: »
    What is an aryan empire comprise of? Hitler did only biggest hatred was to Jews wasn't it?
    Was it not he based the colour of hair and eyes as been superior to others but in no way did he kill all on the premise.
    He had a dream of controlling Europe under him and setting his ideologies and beliefs on others.Same thing as USE

    And who will be controlling Europe under themselves and setting their ideologies and beliefs on others in this USE? Joe Higgins? Gay Mitchell? Charlie McCreevy?


  • Options
    #76
    ei.sdraob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    caseyann wrote: »
    Hey ei.sdraob how is life :)

    I read that when you posted he is pure nutter,i wouldnt listen to him or any of the others if they paid me 500 grand a year or would i :o

    No in all seriousness its an form of communism and Hitler ideology.

    i dunno 500 grand, tough times

    i'd sell me soul :eek:


  • Options
    #77
    Empire o de Sun
    Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭Empire o de Sun


    I'm a fan of the idea.

    County Council be abolished, super councils made up of 500,000 people or a certain geographical area. So we'd have about eight to ten councils at the most.

    The Dáil, suppose the same, with 120 TD's or 100 TD's

    Then European Parliament,

    Suppose the Comission would evolve into the second chamber (make use of the one of the two parliaments ;))

    So the Parliament represents the poeple of europe, the the second chamber represents the member states.

    President or Prime minister, well I dunno.


  • Options
    #78
    Amtmann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,093 ✭✭✭Amtmann


    I am an aspirational EU federalist, and have been for many years. However, it's pie in the sky stuff at the moment, and I can't see that changing for another thirty or forty years at least.


  • Options
    #79
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    Sam Vimes wrote: »
    And who will be controlling Europe under themselves and setting their ideologies and beliefs on others in this USE? Joe Higgins? Gay Mitchell? Charlie McCreevy?

    Well put it this way,How many countries in Europe,how many share same values on people as others,How many believe in the rights of the people,how many are still of communist status,even though they no longer fly the flag and then along with our own government along with the other fat cats and rule monger's there is.Of them all in power in one government making choices for you and i or your future children or Grandchildren would you like? And out of them who would be the strongest and who would be the no back boners?


  • Options
    #80
    Sam Vimes
    Registered Users Posts: 21,611 ✭✭✭✭Sam Vimes


    caseyann wrote: »
    Well put it this way,How many countries in Europe,how many share same values on people as others,How many believe in the rights of the people,how many are still of communist status,even though they no longer fly the flag and then along with our own government along with the other fat cats and rule monger's there is.Of them all in power in one government making choices for you and i or your future children or Grandchildren would you like? And out of them who would be the strongest and who would be the no back boners?

    So is your problem with the EU or with representative democracy?


  • Options
    #81
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    i dunno 500 grand, tough times

    i'd sell me soul :eek:

    Nah just aim for TD and then with expenses you pull out of air you will make more than that in a year :D


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #82
    Empire o de Sun
    Registered Users Posts: 369 ✭✭Empire o de Sun


    But I do look forward to the day when I can leave my house (flat ;)) and travel to any country in the EU without my passport. But sadly since air travel now requires id for tickets and security, this seems unlikely.

    I have driven through several member states and not once stopped at any border. It does really feel like the EU has accomplished allot when you just whizz by the old border post.


  • Options
    #83
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    Empire o de Sun wrote: »
    But I do look forward to the day when I can leave my house (flat ;)) and travel to any country in the EU without my passport. But sadly since air travel now requires id for tickets and security, this seems unlikely.

    I have driven through several member states and not once stopped at any border. It does really feel like the EU has accomplished allot when you just whizz by the old border post.

    Some patience please, the microchips are in the post. :)


  • Options
    #84
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    marco_polo wrote: »
    Some patience please, the microchips are in the post. :)

    All joking aside if they brought it in would you take it :eek:


  • Options
    #85
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    caseyann wrote: »
    All joking aside if they brought it in would you take it :eek:

    No chance, sure us common law folk won't even stand for a national identity card. :)


  • Options
    #86
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    marco_polo wrote: »
    No chance, sure us common law folk won't even stand for a national identity card. :)

    More's the pity.


  • Options
    #87
    turgon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭turgon


    nesf wrote: »
    More's the pity.

    Well Im inclined to disagree. Ive heard National Identiy Cards cause abortions.


  • Options
    #88
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    marco_polo wrote: »
    No chance, sure us common law folk won't even stand for a national identity card. :)

    Well if you have passport or driving licence i dont see why you need it.But happy to hear you are out on the chip idea :D


  • Options
    #89
    MrMatisse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,743 ✭✭✭MrMatisse


    Personally i think a lot of people behind the Yes campaign are federalists or have federalist leanings.

    I dont trust the motivation behind the primaraly Franco/German drive towards federalism.

    1) Beacuse they never admit to federalism being a goal of this whole project which i believe it is which is just downright dishonest.

    2) Massive countries are more likely to be aggressive and throw their weight about than small ones.


  • Options
    #90
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    caseyann wrote: »
    Well if you have passport or driving licence i dont see why you need it.But happy to hear you are out on the chip idea :D

    The point being that you'd be required to carry it on you at all times, so that a) in the event of an accident you can be identified immediately and b) in the case of a crime being committed you can be identified immediately etc.

    Really-Stressed wrote: »
    Personally i think a lot of people behind the Yes campaign are federalists or have federalist leanings.

    I'm not convinced of that given that most of them haven't even positions on the matter. Federalism is a non-issue right now for most groups because apart from a small group in the European Parliament no one is pushing the issue.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #91
    caseyann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,941 ✭✭✭caseyann


    nesf wrote: »
    The point being that you'd be required to carry it on you at all times, so that a) in the event of an accident you can be identified immediately and b) in the case of a crime being committed you can be identified immediately etc.




    I'm not convinced of that given that most of them haven't even positions on the matter. Federalism is a non-issue right now for most groups because apart from a small group in the European Parliament no one is pushing the issue.


    I carry both of my ids everywhere with me already so i dont need any :)


    That is the point not yet they are saying,but ah who knows probably never happen:D


Advertisement