Will the Yes side follow through on its claims?

kryogen

Just wanna get a poll going here, doing a little piece and would like to get some opinions, basically, the question is, the slogans such as Yes for recovery and Yes for jobs etc. were a big influence on alot of voters in how they voted, do you think these claims will be backed up? if so, how and if they are not upheld then what do people think should be done, eg, resignations, holding another referendum, absolutely nothing, etc.

any replies appreciated but please keep it civil, i would really like to get a good sample here for my research


argh! forgot to add a poll, so lets just make it a discussion thread please! all thoughts welcome


EDIT: i reckon i should clarify a couple of things so here is exactly what i want

1. Do you think the yes side will follow through on claims such as speedy economic recovery and jobs being created in a speedy fashion as was implied
2. If they fail in these areas what should happen then

amacachi

kryogen wrote: »

Just wanna get a poll going here, doing a little piece and would like to get some opinions, basically, the question is, the slogans such as Yes for recovery and Yes for jobs etc. were a big influence on alot of voters in how they voted, do you think these claims will be backed up? if so, how and if they are not upheld then what do people think should be done, eg, resignations, holding another referendum, absolutely nothing, etc.

any replies appreciated but please keep it civil, i would really like to get a good sample here for my research


argh! forgot to add a poll, so lets just make it a discussion thread please! all thoughts welcome


EDIT: i reckon i should clarify a couple of things so here is exactly what i want

1. Do you think the yes side will follow through on claims such as speedy economic recovery and jobs being created in a speedy fashion as was implied
2. If they fail in these areas what should happen then

Recovery will most likely come a little quicker thanks to the ratification, but inly when it's ratified. Of course it's impossible to judge how much quicker since the No vote lost.

What should happen? People can vote in the next general election for whoever they think can do better.

kryogen

amacachi wrote: »

Recovery will most likely come a little quicker thanks to the ratification, but inly when it's ratified. Of course it's impossible to judge how much quicker since the No vote lost.

What should happen? People can vote in the next general election for whoever they think can do better.

thanks for the reply, just one thing, how does changing the party in government affect the help we get fromt he EU to help the economy? the yes sides arguement is that by voting yes Europe will solve the economy problem in a timely fashion. this is not a national question really, more of a what should we do if they were wrong/lied?

amacachi

kryogen wrote: »

thanks for the reply, just one thing, how does changing the party in government affect the help we get fromt he EU to help the economy? the yes sides arguement is that by voting yes Europe will solve the economy problem in a timely fashion. this is not a national question really, more of a what should we do if they were wrong/lied?

Who is "they"? The effect on the economy isn't going to be an overnight job.

From the tone of your post I thought you meant what do we do if the government don't fix the economy. There's only so much money around and with this treaty ratified it should get shared around more quickly and fairly than it otherwise would have.

What can "we" do? Spend on irish goods, work hard if possible etc.

Rb

Why aren't you asking when the abortions, conscription and €1.84 minimum wage will be coming in?

They are claims of the consequences of a Yes vote afterall.

Handsome Bob

kryogen wrote: »

1. Do you think the yes side will follow through on claims such as speedy economic recovery and jobs being created in a speedy fashion as was implied

I personally think that those posters where the symptoms of a logical fallacy. Technically, logic would suggest that our chances of recovering from the recession are higher if we are at the centre of Europe rather than on the cusp of it.

However, there are no guarantees here, and no length of time can be applied to exactly when we come out of the recession. But you just know that when we do eventually come out of the recession, voting Yes to the Lisbon Treaty will get the props from your fickle average joe, even if it is years away.

Personally I think anyone who was influenced by any posters on either side were terribly misguided, because they are nothing more than tools in a spin campaign with little or no substance.

2. If they fail in these areas what should happen then

As I said, I think that we will eventually come out of this recession, before the next general election in 2012. It will of course have no direct relation to voting Yes to Lisbon, however Fianna Fail will undoubtedly launch the mother of all PR campaigns giving itself and Lisbon credit for the economic recovery. And you know what? The public will fall for it. :rolleyes:

EvilMonkey

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/6258132/Lisbon-Treaty-approval-could-save-Ireland-200m-a-year-in-debt-costs.html

Handsome Bob

That's me told so. :pac:

Greaney

I kinda think you're making a good point with this thread. I'm under the impression that folk voted because our ecomomy was having a (really) bad spell, personally, I think that makes for emotional and fearful voting. I think there will be unseen consequenses.

One pundit made a really good observation on why Donegal voted "no", albeit by a tiny margin, and the margins in the West of Ireland were slimmer than say Dublin. He said that (if you'll allow me to paraphrase)

"People in the West believe politicians have been speaking out both sides of their mouth, on the one hand they say that Europe is so good for country however, when policies are brought into practice that do not suit the economies of the west and rural areas, they shrug and say it's Europes fault. Our government are signing off on European legislation they don't know of the consequenses of, and cannot change".

Food for thought...:o

Noreen1

I think the people of Donegal voted "No", largely because:

1: Being marginalised, in many ways, for years, they have seen few of the benefits of the Celtic Tiger, and many of the disadvantages of being part of Europe. eg. Falling farm prices, increased bureaucracy, change in traditional family values, no significant increase in employment, apart from the construction sector, no railway, no University, resulting in consistently higher levels of unemployment than the rest of the country., etc.
These are some of the reasons, though I certainly would not presume to try to speak for the people of Donegal. When asked, they are perfectly capable of speaking for themselves.

2: A significant proportion of them have learned, through bitter experience. not to believe their politicians. Sad, but true.

ei.sdraob

Yes im currently researching RFID technologies

http://i36.tinypic.com/2ah85tt.jpg



anyways the EU handed over 500 million only a few days ago for greencolar jobs and renewable investment

alot more to come

ei.sdraob

Noreen1 wrote: »

I think the people of Donegal voted "No", largely because:

1: Being marginalised, in many ways, for years, they have seen few of the benefits of the Celtic Tiger, and many of the disadvantages of being part of Europe. eg. Falling farm prices, increased bureaucracy, change in traditional family values, no significant increase in employment, apart from the construction sector, no railway, no University, resulting in consistently higher levels of unemployment than the rest of the country., etc.
These are some of the reasons, though I certainly would not presume to try to speak for the people of Donegal. When asked, they are perfectly capable of speaking for themselves.

2: A significant proportion of them have learned, through bitter experience. not to believe their politicians. Sad, but true.

none of the above have anything to do with the treaty

cutting their Noses to spite the face

marginalised? some of them fishermen got very very rich, im always shocked at the amounts of german cars i see there

My name is URL

ei.sdraob wrote: »

anyways the EU handed over 500 million only a few days ago for greencolar jobs and renewable investment

alot more to come

So you keep saying..

That investment had nothing to do with the Lisbon Treaty, nor does it mean that by ratifying it here that 'alot more is to come'

If anything it suggests that Irelands involvement in Green energy initiatives with the EU would have been quite alright without the Treaty

Noreen1

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Yes im currently researching RFID technologies

http://i36.tinypic.com/2ah85tt.jpg



anyways the EU handed over 500 million only a few days ago for greencolar jobs and renewable investment

alot more to come

The cynics among us could say that that was;

Prior to the referendum.

Necessary to the EU as part of its Energy Policy.

A loan, rather that a direct investment.

It depends on your viewpoint, I suppose.

Noreen

ei.sdraob

My name is URL wrote: »

So you keep saying..

That investment had nothing to do with the Lisbon Treaty, nor does it mean that by ratifying it here that 'alot more is to come'

If anything it suggests that Irelands involvement in Green energy initiatives with the EU would have been quite alright without the Treaty

no it just shows that EU keeps showing money at us, despite hwo badly we screwed up

and more will come

but of course i keep forgetting that some of the NO posters here would like nothing better than for this country to go back to emigration, potatoes, fishing and poverty, with the DeValera vision of an isolated and marginalised Ireland

ei.sdraob

Noreen1 wrote: »

The cynics among us could say that that was;

Prior to the referendum.

Necessary to the EU as part of its Energy Policy.

A loan, rather that a direct investment.

It depends on your viewpoint, I suppose.

Noreen

would you loan that much money at such low interest to a bankrupt nation?

My name is URL

ei.sdraob wrote: »

no it just shows that EU keeps showing money at us, despite hwo badly we screwed up

and more will come

but of course i keep forgetting that some of the NO posters here would like nothing better than for this country to go back to emigration, potatoes, fishing and poverty, with the DeValera vision of an isolated and marginalised Ireland

Why do you incessantly bring up the negative things that some NO supporters may want to see happen..? Is it some sort of diversionary tactic that you've learned while posting here?

Anyway, what you're saying is pure speculation and has absolutely nothing to do with the ratification of the treaty

ei.sdraob

My name is URL wrote: »

Why do you incessantly bring up the negative things that some NO supporters may want to see happen..? Is it some sort of diversionary tactic that you've learned while posting here?

Anyway, what you're saying is pure speculation and has absolutely nothing to do with the ratification of the treaty

yes a lesson learned from the no campaigners here, thank you very much


well the treaty as you know is not fully ratified yet

so to ask where are the results of a treaty thats not in effect

is daft


i just further highlighted how EU membership continues to be of great benefit to this country, and yes people on your side want ireland to be isolated, live with it or make a better effort to distance yourself from the lunatics

My name is URL

ei.sdraob wrote: »

and yes people on your side want ireland to be isolated, live with it or make a better effort to distance yourself from the lunatics

And people on your side want a One World Government, why should I make any effort to become closer to that side? :rolleyes:

I think I have distanced myself from the lunatic fringes.. I have said that I disagree with most of the No campaign..

The world must seem very black and white to you

me_right_one

kryogen wrote: »

1. Do you think the yes side will follow through on claims such as speedy economic recovery and jobs being created in a speedy fashion as was implied
2. If they fail in these areas what should happen then

1. They Yes side didnt guarantee jobs or speedy economic recovery if Yes won, they just said it makes common sense that these things are more likley to happen with a Yes win. Its obvious!

2. There is no success / fail situation here. Things could get a lot worse, or things could improve. Lisbon will make things more likley to improve, but thats not to say its a certainty.

Anyway, who do you mean when you mention resignations? Who should resign if the economy doesnt pick up? The entire population of Yes advocaters? "Dear boss, I wish to hand in my notice and join the dole queue due to the fact that I hoped the Yes side would win, but the economy is still struggling"

me_right_one

My name is URL wrote: »

And people on your side want a One World Government, why should I make any effort to become closer to that side? :rolleyes:

I dont want a One World Govt. Why do you think Yes people want a OWG?

Fuhrer

My name is URL wrote: »

The world must seem very black and white to you

You're the one who thinks you can either be Isolated or a one world government.

ei.sdraob

to answer the OP

Will the Yes side follow through on its claims?

we wont know until the treaty is ratified in all countries and in effect + some timeperiod N

its a bit early to tell since the horse hasnt even crossed the starting line yet

My name is URL

me_right_one wrote: »

I dont want a One World Govt. Why do you think Yes people want a OWG?

Fuhrer wrote: »

You're the one who thinks you can either be Isolated or a one world government.

I don't!! I was demonstrating how ei.sdraob seeing everyone on the No side as isolationist is wrong.

EuskalHerria

Of course they will, Economic recovery and job creation starts 9 o'clock Monday morning:D

The backtracking started shortly after the Yes vote had won. This video shows it and i'm sure their will be more backtracking once the "legal guarantees" fall through aswell. 364 days of the year they are the incompetent suits in the Daíl but on Friday people were gullible enough to believe the lies, hilarious if it wasn't so serious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sED3iApAvE

me_right_one

EuskalHerria wrote: »

Of course they will, Economic recovery and job creation starts 9 o'clock Monday morning:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sED3iApAvE

Lenihan is right. It wasnt presented as a job creation program. Its just normal, average, cop-on, that if Yes passes, jobs are MORE LIKLEY to happen than if we voted no. A program has dates, timetables, schedules etc., similar to the mocking sentence you have above. Nothing like that was put forward

Rb

Rabble rabble rabble, the sky is going to fall, lizard men will rule the earth, babies will abort themselves, THE MINIMUM WAGE rabble rabble rabble.

It seems the same, idiotic crap is being said as after the Nice referendum, yet none of it came through.

Keep rambling and claiming the world is going to end children, if nothing else it will be hilarious to point to after the next referendum concerning Europe.

Absurdum

Noreen1 wrote: »

I think the people of Donegal voted "No", largely because:


2: A significant proportion of them have learned, through bitter experience. not to believe their politicians. Sad, but true.

They believed Sinn Fein (and UKIP amongst others). Now that is sad but true.

My name is URL

Rb wrote: »

Keep rambling and claiming the world is going to end children, if nothing else it will be hilarious to point to after the next referendum concerning Europe.

wtf are you talking about? Has that got anything to do with this?

There's plenty of other threads which deal with the insane claims made by Coir etc

This one is about the barefaced attempt to mislead people, by our own government.

me_right_one

My name is URL wrote: »

wtf are you talking about? Has that got anything to do with this?

There's plenty of other threads which deal with the insane claims made by Coir etc

This one is about the barefaced attempt to mislead people, by our own government.

Please elaborate! How do you think they mislead you?

My name is URL

me_right_one wrote: »

Please elaborate! How do you think they mislead you?

They didn't mislead me, I voted No.

They did manage to mislead a sizable number of people who I've spoken to.. alot of whom say that they expected a direct positive impact of a Yes vote, regardless of there been no mention of it in the treaty..

and considering that the Yes side were seemingly all in favor of people making a decision based on what was in the treaty, it seems extremely hypocritical of them to prey on peoples economic situations to gain support