Bus seats

Terrontress

There is a type of double decker bus which is very common in Translink and in London. I see now that Dublin Bus have them too. I believe that they are called Wright Gemini and have round double headlights.

Now what interests me is that the seats on those in Translink and London seem similar, like rows of two individual seats, those in Dublin bus ones are similar to those in older buses from Dublin.

What is the reason for the difference? Budget, fear of vandalism, usefulness?

I have to say that I can't say which is a better seat but the Dublin Bus ones look a lot less impressive. What is the point in paying for new buses and then skimping on the seats?

Does anyone have any insight into this?

Victor

Dublin bus use the cheapest seat possible.

When they did get the individual rubberised seats you would occassionally see they with bits cut our of them and / burnt.

Brussels has leather seats on its new trams.

Aquavid

Dublin Bus did use these individual seats on many double-deckers in the mid 90s (for the ones which were in "City Swift" colours), but they were heavily vandalised, and more expensive to replace, so they quickly returned to bench seats for new buses, and the mid-90s buses gradually had the individual seats replaced too.

Aquavid

L1011

You'll see the bucket seats on Bus Eireann equivalents of DB units also - DB's benches are extremely cheap to repair/replace in comparison.

karlr42

They also double as an impromptu emergency triangle.

Terrontress

What do? The bench seats? I don't understand.

Each time Dublin Bus gets a new type of bus, I get excited and look forward to travelling on it but to be honest, they are all the same inside. It's always a bit of a letdown.

At least it isn't just bare cost-saving and they have tried introducing better seats but had to shelve the idea.

L1011

Terrontress wrote: »

What do? The bench seats? I don't understand.

Have you never seen a broken down Dublin Bus? For some reason there is nearly ALWAYS a seat squab resting against the back to show that its not going to move any time soon...

AlekSmart

You'll see the bucket seats on Bus Eireann equivalents of DB units also - DB's benches are extremely cheap to repair/replace in comparison.

The issue of on-bus furnishings is not quite as clear as it might appear.

The Dublin Bus standard "old fashioned" backrest and squab format may well appear dull and dowdy but has the major advantage of being easy to replace.

However this should not lead anybody to believe that they are cheap....cos they are NOT.
All of the cushioning anjd covering material must comply with very high temperature resistance and flame retardent specifications and as a result the seat parts carry a substantial premium over yer oul horsehair stuffing.

They are also surprisingly comfortable when directly compared to many of the far "sexier" one-piece GRP affairs now becoming the norm on off-the-shelf bus bodies.

Dublin Bus did specify the original City Swift vehicles many years ago to include Italian designed Lazzerini seating which whilst appearing modern and sharply styled was simply not practical from a maintenance standpoint during an era when high levels of sadly typical Irish Vandalism and Destruction was rampant.

On the issue of the Two Seat Breakdown triangle,which was the norm for many years,this came about largely due to the immediate destruction of the regulatory breakdown tri-angle each time it would be deployed.

I personally lost count of the number of times I watched(and heard) cars drive over the tri-angle in order to drive right up to the back of the broken down bus.

This would usually be followed by a pause,then a flurry of horn-blowing and perhaps even a dismount & approach by the Car Driver,who only then might notice the open Engine Cover or pool of oil beneath the Bus.

Usually the Car Driver would then Reverse back over the already smashed tri-angle before applying a huge dollop of hard lock to get past the Bus whilst gibbering or fist-waving as they roared off down the highway in a cloud of steam,smoke and foul language.

Deploying the seat backs at least presented a physical barrier which took real effort to miss,although I well recall one lady driving a Ford Escort who collected a Bus Seat cushion at Cornelscourt and brought it down to Deans Grange Cemetery gate before finally having it removed by a pedestrian who managed to stop her at a crossing point....the pedestrian stopped a 45 going the opposite direction which then took it back to its original place of rest outside Dunnes Stores....quite funny in a way until one realises that that cushion could just as easily have been a human body....

antoinolachtnai

As Alek says, there is no cheap way of replacing damaged stuff on a bus.

There is an issue about positioning though. Does the type of seat matter? Not really from a bare, transport point of view. But it is important in terms of how people perceive the service, and what the service is competing with.

In the 60's and 70's, the bus was competing with walking and cycling. So it adopted a particular positioning. At that time, foggy buses, with bench seats were a good solution.

Now, the bus needs to be competitive with driving in your own private, comfortable car. These current and former car drivers are the people who matter and to whom public transport must be sold, from the point of view of public policy. The people who would walk or cycle are no longer a critical group.

(DB's view on this is a bit different - they are mainly focused n trying to drive cashflow. Modal shift from cars to buses has not really been a critical issue for the company in its everyday operations.)

So to make the shift from car to bus plausible, and make public transport appealing to drivers, you have to make the bus something to aspire to. One part of that is to create at least the illusion of privacy and comfort on the bus. Having separate seats is part of providing that illusion.

There are plenty of ways of having vandal-proof individual seats. You can make them out of hard plastic, for instance. A well made hard plastic seat can be quite comfortable and attractive looking, as well as being much more vandal-proof than the current arrangements. (However, these may not function well as impromptu traffic warning signals, although cheap modern LED lights should probably form the basis for the longer term solution for this issue.)

Also, I have a feeling that having bench seats upstairs may be a way to increase the amount of seating that can be fitted in, but I'm not sure about that. Again, this is something you have to look at as regards positioning. If you are positioning the bus service to compete with the car, you can't be trying to cram people into too small a space.

Irish Rail have created similar positioning issues for themselves on some commuter lines.

shltter

MYOB wrote: »

Have you never seen a broken down Dublin Bus? For some reason there is nearly ALWAYS a seat squab resting against the back to show that its not going to move any time soon...

That is because Dublin drivers seem not to recognise a warning triangle and simply drive over it to take up a position about 2 inches from the back of the bus and then sit on the horn when you don't move.

Place a seat at the back and they get it for some reason.

shltter

AlekSmart wrote: »

The issue of on-bus furnishings is not quite as clear as it might appear.

The Dublin Bus standard "old fashioned" backrest and squab format may well appear dull and dowdy but has the major advantage of being easy to replace.

However this should not lead anybody to believe that they are cheap....cos they are NOT.
All of the cushioning anjd covering material must comply with very high temperature resistance and flame retardent specifications and as a result the seat parts carry a substantial premium over yer oul horsehair stuffing.

They are also surprisingly comfortable when directly compared to many of the far "sexier" one-piece GRP affairs now becoming the norm on off-the-shelf bus bodies.

Dublin Bus did specify the original City Swift vehicles many years ago to include Italian designed Lazzerini seating which whilst appearing modern and sharply styled was simply not practical from a maintenance standpoint during an era when high levels of sadly typical Irish Vandalism and Destruction was rampant.

On the issue of the Two Seat Breakdown triangle,which was the norm for many years,this came about largely due to the immediate destruction of the regulatory breakdown tri-angle each time it would be deployed.

I personally lost count of the number of times I watched(and heard) cars drive over the tri-angle in order to drive right up to the back of the broken down bus.

This would usually be followed by a pause,then a flurry of horn-blowing and perhaps even a dismount & approach by the Car Driver,who only then might notice the open Engine Cover or pool of oil beneath the Bus.

Usually the Car Driver would then Reverse back over the already smashed tri-angle before applying a huge dollop of hard lock to get past the Bus whilst gibbering or fist-waving as they roared off down the highway in a cloud of steam,smoke and foul language.

Deploying the seat backs at least presented a physical barrier which took real effort to miss,although I well recall one lady driving a Ford Escort who collected a Bus Seat cushion at Cornelscourt and brought it down to Deans Grange Cemetery gate before finally having it removed by a pedestrian who managed to stop her at a crossing point....the pedestrian stopped a 45 going the opposite direction which then took it back to its original place of rest outside Dunnes Stores....quite funny in a way until one realises that that cushion could just as easily have been a human body....

Ah I should have read your answer first my enthusiasm because I knew the answer got the better of me. I see Donnybrook buses are equipped with the warning triangle that is apparently only visible to DB staff.

markpb

shltter wrote: »

That is because Dublin drivers seem not to recognise a warning triangle and simply drive over it to take up a position about 2 inches from the back of the bus and then sit on the horn when you don't move.

Surely putting on both sets of indicators taxi-style would achieve the same effect? I know there are some private coaches who put on both indicators every time they stop but that's just ridiculous (and confusing).

Victor

shltter wrote: »

Ah I should have read your answer first my enthusiasm because I knew the answer got the better of me. I see Donnybrook buses are equipped with the warning triangle that is apparently only visible to DB staff.

I saw one only last week - seats on the road and triangle in the back window.

shltter

markpb wrote: »

Surely putting on both sets of indicators taxi-style would achieve the same effect? I know there are some private coaches who put on both indicators every time they stop but that's just ridiculous (and confusing).

Unfortunately not hazard lights mean everything and nothing in this town and as such are largely ignored.

shltter

Victor wrote: »

I saw one only last week - seats on the road and triangle in the back window.

safest place for the triangle

AlekSmart

I have a feeling that having bench seats upstairs may be a way to increase the amount of seating that can be fitted in, but I'm not sure about that. Again, this is something you have to look at as regards positioning. If you are positioning the bus service to compete with the car, you can't be trying to cram people into too small a space.

Antoin is correct in his assertions about "Space" and the personalization of it.
Unlike most of mainland Europe and indeed the bigger UK cities,we have never really taken to mass transit and the notion of temporarly surrendering our personal comfort zone in order to quickly get about our environment.

Here`s some images of the type of "Personalized" seating which,I feel,our BUS companies need to look at with a view to attracting CAR users....

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb70/AlekSmart/BusCoach2009024.jpg?t=1255099997
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb70/AlekSmart/BusCoach2009025.jpg?t=1255100073
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb70/AlekSmart/BusCoach2009030.jpg?t=1255100176
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb70/AlekSmart/BusCoach2009031.jpg?t=1255100234

However with the current depressive state of our Industry I feel that no new innovative marketing is likely in the foreseeable future...pity....

digital_d

AlekSmart wrote: »

Here`s some images of the type of "Personalized" seating which,I feel,our BUS companies need to look at with a view to attracting CAR users....

to be honest - the standard of seating is well down on my list of things that would need to be changed to get me out of my car!

macroman

Dublin Bus chose functionality over design with their seats. Having a fleet standardised makes it considerably easier in terms of maintenance -- cheaper parts/seats if bought in bulk, and less down time if they are vandalised. It also happens to be that they are far comfier then the more stylish seats -- as seen in the lower saloons of their new buses.

And as for the seat-triangle fiasco, I believe that it came into its own in the era of the Atlanteans & Bombardier's which were prone to breaking down in any circumstance...and there weren't enough Triangles to go around :P

Run_to_da_hills

Slightly off topic, dose anyone remember the hard plastic moulded seats that were used in the pre Dart AEC Railcars when they were converted to pushpulls? They had them in two rows each side of the carriage back to the windows. :eek:

dazberry

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Slightly off topic, dose anyone remember the hard plastic moulded seats that were used in the pre Dart AEC Railcars when they were converted to pushpulls? They had them in two rows each side of the carriage back to the windows. :eek:

Yes I have a vague memory of them in the mid-70s as I was very young and probably overly excited at being on a train

D.

Run_to_da_hills

dazberry wrote: »

Yes I have a vague memory of them in the mid-70s as I was very young and probably overly excited at being on a train ;)D.

At least these were vandal proof, almost, some used to find themselves flying out the windows along with circular fluorescent bulbs and toilet tolls.

Cookie_Monster

AlekSmart wrote: »

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb70/AlekSmart/BusCoach2009030.jpg?t=1255100176
http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb70/AlekSmart/BusCoach2009031.jpg?t=1255100234

However with the current depressive state of our Industry I feel that no new innovative marketing is likely in the foreseeable future...pity....

those two look both vile and uncomfortable!

macroman

I suppose we should count ourselves lucky that Dublin Bus haven't taken a leaf out of Ulsterbus' book and install fibreglass seating :eek:

Capt'n Midnight

I can remember one bus with a molded plywood seat - single sheet bent in to shape

IIRC it was an Atlantean and would have been late 70's

but surface was so varnished that you just kept sliding off, vandal proof but very uncomfortable


One advantage of the old bench seats with the rubber grips was that you would always get a place to sit down upstairs. You just went down the back where someone had kicked one out of place and clipped it back

Capt'n Midnight

markpb wrote: »

Surely putting on both sets of indicators taxi-style would achieve the same effect? I know there are some private coaches who put on both indicators every time they stop but that's just ridiculous (and confusing).

Don't get me started on TAXI drivers who don't use hand signals.

RadioCity

macroman wrote: »

I suppose we should count ourselves lucky that Dublin Bus haven't taken a leaf out of Ulsterbus' book and install fibreglass seating :eek:

It might have been common for buses that were introduced up to the late 1970s for Ulsterbus vehicles to have fibreglass seating. During the 80s it may have been normal for city buses to have fibreglass seats on the last 5 rows at the rear of the vehicle.
I can't think of any new Ulsterbus/Citybus vehicle from around 1990 onwards that had fibreglass seating.