"Ultra Casual" - Saturday October 10th

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Cunny-Funt wrote: »

I agree, I've played quite a lot of the same people a number of times now and theres loads i've not played or played properly at least, mainly on the 360 side.


Farzad was sayin it might be a fun idea to have a mess 360 v ps3 tourny thing which could be good for a laugh. :pac:

YESSS

PS3 vs XBOX360

bring it on !!!!!!

Xinkai

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Lets hope next week has a similar turnout to prepare for two, yes TWO tournaments in one weekend.

Hey... Shut up!!! lol

L31mr0d

would love to go next weekend, but... eh, Uncharted 2? I imagine I'll be playing that solid this Saturday.

Retr0gamer

You have all saturday morning and sunday to play it!

K.O.Kiki

L31mr0d wrote: »

would love to go next weekend, but... eh, Uncharted 2? I imagine I'll be playing that solid this Saturday.

Playing games by yourself, what a loser!

Dreddybajs

chopperbyrne wrote: »

I officially hate Dreddy's Zangief! Now with Icarian it's going to be doubly hard!

You just need to learn the deadly martial art of counterpicking :pac:

Kinetic^

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Back from france and would love to play a few games next weekend. Haven't been on the booze in ages so I'd be up for pints as well. Shame I missed this weeks. Also had tickets to the match as well

So you got stung going to France, didn't get to go to XGC and also didn't get to go to croker! Made my day son!

Jim

Kinetic^ wrote: »

So you got stung going to France, didn't get to go to XGC and also didn't get to go to croker! Made my day son!

That's cmod abuse of power right there. :pac:

Kinetic^

Damn straight!

/high fives Jim

chopperbyrne

Dreddybajs wrote: »

You just need to learn the deadly martial art of counterpicking :pac:

Pull a Terry? No way.

Icarian

Pull a Terry? No way.

Try M. Bison, you won't get as much hate as you would for Sagat, even though that tricky bastard is way harder to fight...

6:4 in giefs favour? I strongly disagree

Orim

Is bison/gief really in giefs favour? I would have thought that st.RH would give Bison the advantage.

Icarian

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/17/street-fighter-4-tiers-character-rankings/

apparantly, but from my experience, M. Bison can just headstomp and devils reverse all day to a chip damage time up victory, his head stomp/devils reverse render giefs lariat useless, his standing round house, cr HK, psycho crusher and his scissor kick come out fast and make approaching from the ground, and his st mk is one of the best pokes in the game.

after sagat/seth, m. bison has the best anti gief zoning in the game, and his mobility is second only to seth.

imo, it should be 7:3 in M. Bison's favour

Creature

Gief's jumping headbutt beats Devil's Reverse afaik and you just dash/walk away from headstomp. But yeah I think the matchup is generally in Bison's favour too.

animaX

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Pull a Terry? No way.

ALRIGHT! This white-devil thing has gone far enough. NOBODY... MESSES... WITH THE TIGER!

(bonus point for anyone who can spot the quote :pac:)

Also, I don't counterpick, I just pick so that I can't be counterpicked!

blag

Icarian wrote: »

http://www.eventhubs.com/guides/2008/oct/17/street-fighter-4-tiers-character-rankings/

apparantly, but from my experience, M. Bison can just headstomp and devils reverse all day to a chip damage time up victory, his head stomp/devils reverse render giefs lariat useless, his standing round house, cr HK, psycho crusher and his scissor kick come out fast and make approaching from the ground, and his st mk is one of the best pokes in the game.

after sagat/seth, m. bison has the best anti gief zoning in the game, and his mobility is second only to seth.

imo, it should be 7:3 in M. Bison's favour

As creature says,Gief can just jump up headbutt stomps and DR.Or even easier just dash away from stomp for a free SPD,DR's can be easily focused for another free SPD.

Lariat beats psycho crusher(and ex) and scissors.Jumping mk beats st rh which forces the Bison player to use the unbearably slow cr fierce instead.

Splash cross up to lariat/tick SPD attempt is a nightmare without meter for Bison and the teleport can be caught with cr rh or green hand.

I'd put this one fairly even.

Check out this video,Kimi is a great Bison player (as is Itabashi with Gief) and it just shows how much hard work it can be for Bison..and the Ultra bs just shows that it's barely worth attempting anything more than a 4 hit combo when Gief has Ultra.

chopperbyrne

animaX wrote: »

ALRIGHT! This white-devil thing has gone far enough. NOBODY... MESSES... WITH THE TIGER!

(bonus point for anyone who can spot the quote :pac:)

Also, I don't counterpick, I just pick so that I can't be counterpicked!

Every time I've seen you play you counter pick your opponent by picking Sagat!

Orim

Maybe we should have a new sticky where people could hurl abuse at terry?

Azza

Gief/Bison is certainly a 6:4 Gief. Sounds like you don't know the match up at all Icarain.

Larait beats everything Bison has on the ground clean during its first 2 rotations with the exception of Bisons wake up ultra. So thats both versions of the Pyscho Crusher and Scissors Kick as well as super, ultra and all normals including slide. Its very vulnerable during its third rotation but spacing is still required to attack it.

Larait is a better meter builder than Devils Reverse if both players try to turtle to build meter.

Devils Reverse meter build has to land full screen away from Gief or it will eat kara glove.

Headstomp beats larait if the Gief player recklessly throws out a a headstomp while Bison has charge. Devils Reverse can't punish larait on reaction because its not quick enough so to win with Devils Reverse you have to rely on the Gief player to throw out the larait while your in mid air.

Late 3xP Larait beats both versions of Devils Reverse and regular headstomp, in the event of a trade Geif can add on ex.green hand for even better trade win.

Ex.Headstomp will probably beat or trade win against late larait (but Gief has better positional advantage in that case) so Gief should just block or back dash.

Backdash (assuming your not in the corner) makes headstomp whiff which = free spd.

Late Larait will beat all Bisons jump ins or trade win. Larait on wake up means Gief has no wake up pressure to deal with.

Ex.Spd on wake up beats both versions of the headstomp if you got good timing. Hit invunrability causes headstomp to whiff and you get to land the SPD.

Larait trade with air moves gives Gief positional advantage.

Blocked Devils Reverse = free jab.spd.

Devils Reverse should be focus attacked for massive damage. Back dash out of focus attack if Bison throws out an ex.devils reverse.

C.mp beats devils reverse clean if timed right.
C.mp can tag sloppy cross ups if for some reason you don't want to use larait.

Both versions of Skull Driver looses to everything just larait if your see it coming.

Gief Body splash beats Bisons s.hk, so Bison is forced to use the tricky c.hp if he wants to beat it. Jumping.mk requires Bison to correctly position himself to s.hk it.
Giefs c.hk beats Bisons s.hk forcing Bison to use s.mk to beat it.

A whiffed s.hk can be spd but this is very difficult to do.

Gief is far likely to land his ultra than Bison is giving him much better comeback potential.

Because of the fast start up time of SPD, tiny mistakes in block strings by Bison can lead to massive damage. Gief can make several mistakes and still win. This is shown clearly in the video Blag linked to above.

Gief needs knock down in corner to start 50/50 guessing game. Gief should do a cross up jump to break Bisons horizontal charge first. Then do either of the following.

If Bison does not have meter, Gief cross up body splash then c.lk tick into larait or simply spd/super/ultra after body splash. Bison either gets out or does a medium amount of damage to punish Gief larait or Bisons take a big hit and is still in the trap.

If Bison has meter Gief needs to use either jumping headbutt of body splash as Bison wakes. Body splash will allow Bison to ex.devils reverse out and escape (but Bison still isn't in a great position). But if Gief using his jumping headbutt he will knock Bison down and resets the trap. Bison can do a ex.headstomp to beat Headbutt for nice damage but if Gief player did the body splash instead the Headstomp will whiff leaving Bison in range for major punishment.

After each successful use of the trap Gief should simply try and repeat it.

Bison can only use FA dash out of body splash or teleport when he is not in the corner.

Gief can corner trap Bison by simply pressuring him with weak attacks and then either walking towards him and performing random spd or jump up and headbutt to kills Bisons jump out game. Bison options are really poor here. If he stays still he could eat spd or worse, if he throws a poke out he could eat larait and if he tries to jump out he could eat headbutt. Of course Bison is going guess right as often as he guesses wrong. Problem is Gief does alot more damage and has a lot more health to throw away.

Meaty c.lk gives Bison problems on wake up.

Basically Gief has more health and does more damage than Bison, so Bison is stuck to poking Gief and punishing laraits that whiff and punishing blocked green hands, hoping he can keep him out, but the numbers aren't in his favor. He can afford far fewer mistakes than Gief can and is really vulnerable without meter. Once Gief gets a life lead he can turtle his heart out as he no longer has to risk getting through Bisons pokes and Bison has very few options for cracking Gief.

Summing up
Gief is really gay in this game. :P

blag

Azza wrote: »

Summing up
Gief is really gay in this game. :P

I knew there was something I was leaving out...:pac:

K.O.Kiki

Hey Azza, you keep saying "Larait".

Are you that afraid of a word?

Azza

No, but if they merged with some sort of Guile air throw then I be scared.

Icarian

Azza wrote: »

Gief/Bison is certainly a 6:4 Gief. Sounds like you don't know the match up at all Icarain.

Larait beats everything Bison has on the ground clean during its first 2 rotations with the exception of Bisons wake up ultra. So thats both versions of the Pyscho Crusher and Scissors Kick as well as super, ultra and all normals including slide. Its very vulnerable during its third rotation but spacing is still required to attack it.

Larait is a better meter builder than Devils Reverse if both players try to turtle to build meter.

Devils Reverse meter build has to land full screen away from Gief or it will eat kara glove.

Headstomp beats larait if the Gief player recklessly throws out a a headstomp while Bison has charge. Devils Reverse can't punish larait on reaction because its not quick enough so to win with Devils Reverse you have to rely on the Gief player to throw out the larait while your in mid air.

Late 3xP Larait beats both versions of Devils Reverse and regular headstomp, in the event of a trade Geif can add on ex.green hand for even better trade win.

Ex.Headstomp will probably beat or trade win against late larait (but Gief has better positional advantage in that case) so Gief should just block or back dash.

Backdash (assuming your not in the corner) makes headstomp whiff which = free spd.

Late Larait will beat all Bisons jump ins or trade win. Larait on wake up means Gief has no wake up pressure to deal with.

Ex.Spd on wake up beats both versions of the headstomp if you got good timing. Hit invunrability causes headstomp to whiff and you get to land the SPD.

Larait trade with air moves gives Gief positional advantage.

Blocked Devils Reverse = free jab.spd.

Devils Reverse should be focus attacked for massive damage. Back dash out of focus attack if Bison throws out an ex.devils reverse.

C.mp beats devils reverse clean if timed right.
C.mp can tag sloppy cross ups if for some reason you don't want to use larait.

Both versions of Skull Driver looses to everything just larait if your see it coming.

Gief Body splash beats Bisons s.hk, so Bison is forced to use the tricky c.hp if he wants to beat it. Jumping.mk requires Bison to correctly position himself to s.hk it.
Giefs c.hk beats Bisons s.hk forcing Bison to use s.mk to beat it.

A whiffed s.hk can be spd but this is very difficult to do.

Gief is far likely to land his ultra than Bison is giving him much better comeback potential.

Because of the fast start up time of SPD, tiny mistakes in block strings by Bison can lead to massive damage. Gief can make several mistakes and still win. This is shown clearly in the video Blag linked to above.

Gief needs knock down in corner to start 50/50 guessing game. Gief should do a cross up jump to break Bisons horizontal charge first. Then do either of the following.

If Bison does not have meter, Gief cross up body splash then c.lk tick into or larait or simply spd/super/ultra after body splash. Bison either gets out or does a medium amount of damage to punish Gief larait or Bisons take a big hit and is still in the trap.

If Bison has meter Gief needs to use either jumping headbutt of body splash as Bison wakes. Body splash will allow Bison to ex.devils reverse out and escape (but Bison still isn't in a great position). But if Gief using his jumping headbutt he will knock Bison down and resets the trap. Bison can do a ex.headstomp to beat Headbutt for nice damage but if Gief player did the body splash instead the Headstomp will whiff leaving Bison in range for major punishment.

After each successful use of the trap Gief should simply try and repeat it.

Bison can only use FA dash out of body splash or teleport when he is not in the corner.

Gief can corner trap Bison by simply pressuring him with weak attacks and then either walking towards him and performing random spd or jump up and headbutt to kills Bisons jump out game. Bison options are really poor here. If he stays still he could eat spd or worse, if he throws a poke out he could eat larait and if he tries to jump out he could eat headbutt. Of course Bison is going guess right as often as he guesses wrong. Problem is Gief does alot more damage and has a lot more health to throw away.

Meaty c.lk gives Bison problems on wake up.

Basically Gief has more health and does more damage than Bison, so Bison is stuck to poking Gief and punishing laraits that whiff and punishing blocked green hands, hoping he can keep him out, but the numbers aren't in his favor. He can afford far fewer mistakes than Gief can and is really vulnerable without meter. Once Gief gets a life lead he can turtle his heart out as he no longer has to risk getting through Bisons pokes and Bison has very few options for cracking Gief.

Summing up
Gief is really gay in this game. :P

man, thats a long post, don't think I'm going to be able to dissect that one. I'll just say that headbutt is very situational, if Bison is higher than gief and just tags him ith the edge of his hand in devils reverse, it will beat it out iirc.

I think an ex head stomp is fast enough to beat lariat on reaction, at least the PPP version, so its very unsafe, and since lariat is unsafe, gief can't reliably build EX. Gief can only block and spd a devils reverse, if the player has absolutely comitted to landing as deep as possible, if they just tag him with the edge of bisons hand, and pull back, he'll be out of range.

I'm not an expert of the matchup, but I do use gief and Bison, and have fought many good Bison's with gief, and imo M. Bison can outzone gief all match long if he pays his cards right.

Icarian

sorry, it was more for my own reference as I was typing, I didn't mean to post disruptively.

Azza

Icarian wrote:

I'll just say that headbutt is very situational, if Bison is higher than gief and just tags him ith the edge of his hand in devils reverse, it will beat it out iirc.

It beats the Devils Reverse at close range before Bison gets to extend his arm hence it kills Devils Reverse as an escape move for Bison. As for beating headbutt when the fist is already extended I'm not sure I'd have to lab it. But why would would you use headbutt when you have better options to beat it.

Icarian wrote:

I think an ex head stomp is fast enough to beat lariat on reaction, at least the PPP version, so its very unsafe, and since lariat is unsafe, gief can't reliably build EX. Gief can only block and spd a devils reverse, if the player has absolutely comitted to landing as deep as possible, if they just tag him with the edge of bisons hand, and pull back, he'll be out of range.

Headstomp and ex.headstomp can beat a larait on reaction assuming Bison has charge, so why would you try to build meter with 3xp Larait if Bison is crouched on the other side of screen. You use larait when you know he doesn't have downwards charge or is committed to using a devils reverse as a metre build (i.e is moving away from you after extending it out).
Simply focus the devils reverse if Bison is trying to hit you with any range at all with the devils reverse. You can SPD them for free after that as well.

Bison can zone Gief to an extent but a half decent Geif will eventually get a knock down and start his 50/50 guessing game and as I said Gief does more damage and has more health so he needs to guess right less the Bison does.

Leprekaun

Gief is beatable in one way. Hadouken! Hadouken! Shoryuken! Hadouken! Shoryuken! Shoryuken! Hadouken! Hadouken!

That sums it up for me

Xinkai

or you could ignore odds and match ups and just play the game?

Azza

Xinkai wrote:

or you could ignore odds and match ups and just play the game?

Or you can understand the odds and the match ups and the play the game.

FoamyMushroom

Dont make me break out the oh shi-

D4RK ONION

Hmmm, how would that look as an avatar? :cool: Either way, I think it's time to let this thread sink. RIP etc.