Andy Reid and Ireland

premierstone

noodler wrote: »

Andy Reid does not owe us anything my friend. He has done far more for his country than any of us here and sure as hell isn't required to give a public apology to us becasue he stayed up for an extra hour.

Again I seem to be mixing Andy Reid up with someone else what exactly are all these great things he has done for he's country , I could have sworn he was a bit part international footballer with undoubted talent but very inconsistent and was clearly overweight for the large part of he's carrer thus far or are there two Andy Reids and I have them mixed up

whatawaster

Mr Alan wrote: »

strange that. we were doing ****e under our last regime. top manager with proven experience comes into the fold, implements a new system & we start winning.

nothing to do with the top manager though?! just us being lucky

I agree that Trapatoni has improved us – we actually have a shape now.
But we are a defensive team, and our defense has been breached, but not punished time and time again by strong nations like Bulgaria, and supposedly weaker nations like Cyprus.
We have been undeniably lucky – the crazy penalty against Georgia at home. It was a joke. We yet again got away with a shocking performance.

We actually retained the ball better under Staunton. If Robbie Keane hadn’t been in such good goalscoring form in this campaign we’d be nowhere near 2nd. So yes, I think he’s been lucky. I don’t doubt his outstanding past and credentials. But I doubt his motivation and whether or not modern football has passed him by.

Has anyone actually sat through a recent Ireland match and afterwards said they enjoyed the last hour and a half. If you did I’d have to question what it is about football you like at all.

Catenaccio!

whatawaster wrote: »

Trappatoni has been incredibly lucky in this campaign.

We got to play Georgia in a neutral venue. We were completely outplayed twice by Cyprus and were blessed to get anything from either game.
Apart from a couple of 10 minute spells in both Bulgarian matches we were awful, again very lucky to get anything.
Got a lucky sending off and got to play most of the Italian match against 10 men. Yet only towards the end did we throw caution to the wind and try and draw the game.

The most important factor in Ireland’s success is actually not Trappatoni. It’s Trappatoni picking the best players available to him. That means Andy Reid should be in the squad. Fahey should be in the squad. Both should probably be in the first 11.

Some people may disagree but I don’t see football as being 100% about winning. I’ve taken no pleasure in any of Ireland’s wins in this campaign and I’m not really looking forward to us doing the same thing in the playoffs and maybe even the finals.
Trapp isn’t picking our best players.
Trapp isn’t getting the best out of the players he has picked, bar one or two.


On Reid, he’s being discussed because he has something no other midfielder in that squad has – creativity and passing ability. He is also versatile and hard-working. He’s put in some excellent performances for Ireland in the past – something not one of those other midfielders can say. In my opinion he should start in Central midfield instead of Andrews at the moment (assuming S Reid is injured). For all the talk of how Andrews and Whelan fit into Trapp’s system you’re not going to lose much defensively replacing Andrews with Reid. But you’ll gain a player who’s 5 times the attacking force Andrews is.
But if he’s not going to start it’s f*cking crazy he’s not in the squad. He’s a viable option in 3 or 4 positions. But the great Trappatoni, lest I forget, has no plan B, no attacking or creative inclinations whatsoever

Lippi admitted that he didn't pick the best players for the 2006 World Cup.

whatawaster

premierstone wrote: »

Again I seem to be mixing Andy Reid up with someone else what exactly are all these great things he has done for he's country , I could have sworn he was a bit part international footballer with undoubted talent but very inconsistent and was clearly overweight for the large part of he's carrer thus far or are there two Andy Reids and I have them mixed up

He’s put in a number of excellent performances for Ireland in midfield, wide left and in the hole.
Apart from Stephen Reid who is injured, Stephen Ireland who is not available – there are ZERO Irish midfielders with better credentials than him. Glen Whelan is a nothing player who lets every game pass him by. Andrews, despite a decent start for Ireland, now looks less effective than Whelan. Gibson is a strange mixture of the two. He seems to have no qualities except a rocket of a shot.
Reid is not a top-class player. But he’s a good PL player, and has done well for Ireland in the past.

He has a great range of passing – no other midfielder available has this
He is intelligent – none of the others can say the same
He delivers outstanding set-pieces – none of the others can say the same
He is passable, but not great defensively – are any of Whelan, Andrews or Gibson any different?

whatawaster

Catenaccio! wrote: »

Lippi admitted that he didn't pick the best players for the 2006 World Cup.

I think Italy have SLIGHTLY more depth than us. Lippi DID pick the best players in the key areas of Central defense and midfield.

Catenaccio!

Um, every area of the pitch is important.

Mitch Connor

Catenaccio! wrote: »

Um, every area of the pitch is important.

I would say the fact young players are generally 'blooded' out wide where possible - either as a full back or winger, would indicate the wide areas are considered to be less important.

premierstone

whatawaster wrote: »

He’s put in a number of excellent performances for Ireland in midfield, wide left and in the hole.

For example????

whatawaster

premierstone wrote: »

For example????

Couldn’t tell you. Outside world cups I can remember hardly any Ireland games specifically. I remember being impressed with him on a number of occasions though. Other people here have given the germany match as an example. Maybe that’s one, but as I say I can’t really remember.

Mr Alan

he was good against Germany alright.

premierstone

whatawaster wrote: »

Couldn’t tell you. Outside world cups I can remember hardly any Ireland games specifically. I remember being impressed with him on a number of occasions though. Other people here have given the germany match as an example. Maybe that’s one, but as I say I can’t really remember.

Neither can I tbh, I'm not trying to be smart or condecending but I really dont remember them, think there was a couple of games around the time he had signed for Spurs but thats a while back now

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

Andy Reid.

But Trappatoni would seemingly not prefer that option, so i'm happy to go with whatever he thinks.

Outstanding attitude, question nothing eh? Straight from the mouth of the Rafa defense force, eh?

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

We're winning in spite of the 'system', not because of it. So far in the Ireland job Trap has been very lucky as opposed to good. We're usually outplayed in most games but nick a goal against the run of play.

It won't happen because he isn't going to change the system after donkey's years in management, but ideally I'd prefer to see Andy Reid instead of one of Whelan/Andrews to give us a creative impetus and maybe, here's a shocker, perhaps we might see Ireland in possession for longer than 10 seconds.

Ding Ding Ding.

Mr Alan wrote: »

strange that. we were doing ****e under our last regime. top manager with proven experience comes into the fold, implements a new system & we start winning.

nothing to do with the top manager though?! just us being lucky

Have you watched the games?

premierstone wrote: »

Again I seem to be mixing Andy Reid up with someone else what exactly are all these great things he has done for he's country , I could have sworn he was a bit part international footballer with undoubted talent but very inconsistent and was clearly overweight for the large part of he's carrer thus far or are there two Andy Reids and I have them mixed up

Germany at home.
Denmark away.
Cyrpus at home (under Kerr)
Israel at home (under Kerr)

All games he was very good in off the top of my head. You are incorrect and are falling into Trap (pardon the pun) of believing Andy Reid was an awful footballer before he lost so much weight this season. It isn't true - there were reasons he was playing for his country before now.

Mr Alan

noodler wrote: »

Outstanding attitude, question nothing eh? Straight from the mouth of the Rafa defense force, eh?

listen here noodles, i have questioned it, wondered why he is left out & i've said i'd have him in the squad myself.

but who the **** am i to question Trapp? i think he knows what he is doing, our results have been good & the campaign has been a success.

Andy Reid is a slightly above average player who has had serious attitude problems in the past. if it was Zidane he was leaving out, i'd be more vocal. but its Andy Reid & things are going good for us on the pitch.

I'll leaving the getting my knickers in a twist over it to other people & be thankful we've such a good manager.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

listen here noodles, i have questioned it, wondered why he is left out & i've said i'd have him in the squad myself.

but who the **** am i to question Trapp? i think he knows what he is doing, our results have been good & the campaign has been a success.

Andy Reid is a slightly above average player who has had serious attitude problems in the past. if it was Zidane he was leaving out, i'd be more vocal. but its Andy Reid & things are going good for us on the pitch.

I'll leaving the getting my knickers in a twist over it to other people & be thankful we've such a good manager.

You settle then. Some of us will always strive for more, will always question what we do not understand and will always look for a job to be done professionally and without personal bias.

Your awful, awful Zidane argument has been dismissed all over the place. Its all relative and Reid is the only player we have with a playmaker instinct in his body.

Lets face it, you are in the wrong thread if all you want to do is say "why are we questioning Trap". Why is it okay for you to question the Liverpool owners in the Liverpool thread by the way? Is it for you or any other Liverpool fan to question the way successful millionaires run their companies? How is it any different?

Mr Alan

some people just like to moan. simples.

if Ireland were doing ****e, then you would have a better case for changing the system & the personel involved, but we are doing better than was to be expected though so you're infantile moaning is pointless imo.

Draupnir

The best part about all this is that nearly everyone wanted Reid out of the team during the two campaigns previous to this one because he didn't track back and looked a bit lazy when we didn't have the ball in general.

From what I've seen of Sunderland (two games) he hasn't address the tracking back issue at all.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

some people just like to moan. simples.

if Ireland were doing ****e, then you would have a better case for changing the system & the personel involved, but we are doing better than was to be expected though so you're infantile moaning is pointless imo.

Clap Clap Clap....when you've run out of decent arguments....

Draupnir wrote: »

The best part about all this is that nearly everyone wanted Reid out of the team during the two campaigns previous to this one because he didn't track back and looked a bit lazy when we didn't have the ball in general.

From what I've seen of Sunderland (two games) he hasn't address the tracking back issue at all.

Did they? I don't remember this I must say.

Mr Alan

noodler wrote: »

Clap Clap Clap....when you've run out of decent arguments....

how have i possibly run out of decent arguments?!

all i've said is;

That the campaign has been a success so far (it has)
That trap is a top quality manager (he is)
Andy Reid is a slightly above average premier league footballer (he is)

I've said, personally, i'd have Reid in the squad. But i don't think its a big deal that he is not. Where is the issue?

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

how have i possibly run out of decent arguments?!

all i've said is;

That the campaign has been a success so far (it has)
That trap is a top quality manager (he is)
Andy Reid is a slightly above average premier league footballer (he is)

I've said, personally, i'd have Reid in the squad. But i don't think its a big deal that he is not. Where is the issue?

When you disregarded the points in my previous post and dismissed the opinion of the majority of this thread as 'infantile moaning'.

Thats pretty much when. So is questioning Liverpool's owners any different to questioning Trap?

JimiTime

Mr Alan wrote: »

I've said, personally, i'd have Reid in the squad. But i don't think its a big deal that he is not. Where is the issue?

For me, the issue is in the fact that Trap is not picking his best players, and he 'SEEMS' to be leaving arguably our most in form attacking option out of the squad all-together due to reasons beyond football. For a team that pretty much defend, defend, defend, we don't even have a dead ball specialist to threaten with free kicks etc. I think personally, that anyone who attempts to give a football reason as to Reids ommision from the SQUAD, aint got a clue.

Mr Alan

noodler wrote: »

Thats pretty much when. So is questioning Liverpool's owners any different to questioning Trap?

yes its entirely different.

if trap was to endanger the future of the existance of the irish team you might find i would speak out against him also.

Pighead

Mr Alan wrote: »

I've said, personally, i'd have Reid in the squad. But i don't think its a big deal that he is not. Where is the issue?

The only reason that it's not a big deal to you that Reid isn't in the squad is because you don't really care about the Irish national team. You have a passing interest in them. Your main love is Liverpool and that's fair enough.

The people who think that this is a big deal care a lot about the national team and that's why they're getting worked up about it. If you were passionate about teh national team I'd wager you'd be up in arms too.

noodler

Mr Alan wrote: »

yes its entirely different.

if trap was to endanger the future of the existance of the irish team you might find i would speak out against him also.

You are questioning the way the experienced multi-millionaires do their business?

Sigh, I like to close my eyes and thank the stars we have experienced sports franchise owners in charge personally.

givyjoe81

Mr Alan wrote: »

how have i possibly run out of decent arguments?!

all i've said is;

That the campaign has been a success so far (it has)
That trap is a top quality manager (he is)
Andy Reid is a slightly above average premier league footballer (he is)

I've said, personally, i'd have Reid in the squad. But i don't think its a big deal that he is not. Where is the issue?

THe point is he's better than the, arguably, below average premeirship footballers currently being selected for Ireland.

Mr Alan

noodler wrote: »

You are questioning the way the experienced multi-millionaires do their business?

Sigh, I like to close my eyes and thank the stars we have experienced sports franchise owners in charge personally.

LOL franchise owners with a history of leaving clubs high & dry, not delivering stadiums & generally failing as responsible owners & thats talking about their previous endeavours, not Liverpool.

Pighead is right, i am not fanatical about irish football, which may explain why i'm not up in arms, but if Rafa had falling out with a player & that player was to no longer feature, i would most likely fall on the side of the manager in that instance too.

Manager > 99% of players

Catenaccio!

Pighead wrote: »

The only reason that it's not a big deal to you that Reid isn't in the squad is because you don't really care about the Irish national team. You have a passing interest in them. Your main love is Liverpool and that's fair enough.

The people who think that this is a big deal care a lot about the national team and that's why they're getting worked up about it. If you were passionate about teh national team I'd wager you'd be up in arms too.

I'm passionate about the national team and I think that the decision to omit Reid is totally correct

noodler

Catenaccio! wrote: »

I'm passionate about the national team and I think that the decision to omit Reid is totally correct

Why? Give us a few reasons.

Mr Alan wrote: »

LOL franchise owners with a history of leaving clubs high & dry, not delivering stadiums & generally failing as responsible owners & thats talking about their previous endeavours, not Liverpool.

Pighead is right, i am not fanatical about irish football, which may explain why i'm not up in arms, but if Rafa had falling out with a player & that player was to no longer feature, i would most likely fall on the side of the manager in that instance too.

Manager > 99% of players

I think you missed the point.

SlickRic

i'm sorry, but if people think Andy Reid should be completely ommitted from the squad, well, i don't know.

at the very least he should be in there as an impact player; someone with a bit of imagination when everything else fails.

this is at the very least.

he is without doubt one of the 22/23 best players we have available.

without question.

and we do not have the resources to leave a very good player sitting on his @rse at home.

yes, results have been good, but whatever the outcome, reid deserves to be there in some capacity.

Catenaccio!

Reasons? I've seen him play numerous times and he's always been ****. End of.

Pighead

Catenaccio! wrote: »

I'm passionate about the national team and I think that the decision to omit Reid is totally correct

You don't "think" anything. You're just agreeing with Trap. he's doing your thinking for you.

SlickRic

Catenaccio! wrote: »

Reasons? I've seen him play numerous times and he's always been ****. End of.

including this season in the Premier League?

wow, your standards are very high.

pity they're not as high for the likes of Gibson, Whelan, Andrews, Kilbane, Kelly, and any number of other irish players who haven't been as impressive as Andy Reid.

with all due respect to them of course.

Catenaccio!

Pighead wrote: »

You don't "think" anything. You're just agreeing with Trap. he's doing your thinking for you.

It just happens that we both think he's not good enough.

JimiTime

Catenaccio! wrote: »

It just happens that we both think he's not good enough.

If, 'I think he's sh!te' is a reason, then lets keep it blase, and simply say, You're wrong. Even if you weren't wrong, he'd have to be worse than the other squad members for your point to stand.

SlickRic

Catenaccio! wrote: »

It just happens that we both think he's not good enough.

so all our options in midfield, out wide and in the 'hole' are better than him?

all the other players we have potentially on the bench can change a game better than him?

that's what you're saying?

Pighead

Catenaccio! wrote: »

It just happens that we both think he's not good enough.

Alex Ferguson thought it was a good idea to sell Jaap Stam. He was wrong. Even the best managers make mistakes.

Do you honestly think Andy Keogh is a better player than Andy Reid?

Catenaccio!

Yes. I don't rate Reid at all.

Of course managers make mistakes. But Trap has got it right so far, and even if we get a hiding tomorrow it won't be because some lazy midfielder wasn't on the pitch.

JimiTime

Catenaccio! wrote: »

Yes. I don't rate Reid at all.

Of course managers make mistakes. But Trap has got it right so far, and even if we get a hiding tomorrow it won't be because some lazy midfielder wasn't on the pitch.

You are either trolling, or you simply haven't a clue what you're talking about. Its all just rhetoric with no reason.

noodler

Catenaccio! wrote: »

Yes. I don't rate Reid at all.

Of course managers make mistakes. But Trap has got it right so far, and even if we get a hiding tomorrow it won't be because some lazy midfielder wasn't on the pitch.

2 days ago I was certain you were trolling now I have no idea what you are doing.

Catenaccio!

I haven't voted 8 times fwiw.

SlickRic

ah I understand now...

the name...

the views...

you must be Trap's son.

or John Delaney.

so no matter what happens; no matter what you see on the pitch, you're going to back the manager?

wow.

fair enough.

jimbling

Anyone that states that Reid is left out of the squad due to the quality of his football is just wrong. Honestly, it's not even in the realm of possibility... and should not be discussed any further. It's either trolls or people who don't know about football.

So, guys... don't rise to the bait anymore.

premierstone

jimbling wrote: »

Anyone that states that Reid is left out of the squad due to the quality of his football is just wrong. Honestly, it's not even in the realm of possibility... and should not be discussed any further. It's either trolls or people who don't know about football.

So, guys... don't rise to the bait anymore.

So you think that the only basis for picking players in a squad is ability, fcuk if i'd known it was that simple I would have got my badges yonks ago and applied :rolleyes:

anyone backing Trap is accused of been sheep and not capable of thinking for themselves well the irony is the vast majority of people up in arms werent fans odf Reid at all untill Dunphy and the likes started bleetin on about it, and I can guarantee you if he was on the team these would be same muppets that would be callin for he's head. ....''oh he contributes nothing he's lazy, cant tackle'' :rolleyes:

JimiTime

premierstone wrote: »

So you think that the only basis for picking players in a squad is ability, fcuk if i'd known it was that simple I would have got my badges yonks ago and applied :rolleyes:

anyone backing Trap is accused of been sheep and not capable of thinking for themselves well the irony is the vast majority of people up in arms werent fans odf Reid at all untill Dunphy and the likes started bleetin on about it, and I can guarantee you if he was on the team these would be same muppets that would be callin for he's head. ....''oh he contributes nothing he's lazy, cant tackle'' :rolleyes:

Rubbish! Several times has it been noted that no-ne in their right mind can say that reid should be omitted 'for football reasons'. If he was a disruptive influence etc, then I back Trap. None of the evidence seems to suggest that though. I take exception to people thinking that he should be omitted on footballing grounds.

Also, if he was playing, he would face the same critique every other player does. Just because we call for him to be in the squad, does not mean that we think he's maradona. No doubt, if he is playing poorly, he'll be called up on it, just like every other player!

It says alot, that the anti-reid side seem to exaggerate, fabricate or indeed speculate, what the pro-reid side are actually saying or thinking in order to argue against it. Obviously realising you'd look a complete mug trying to say Liam Miller etc are better options in the squad.

noodler

premierstone wrote: »

So you think that the only basis for picking players in a squad is ability, fcuk if i'd known it was that simple I would have got my badges yonks ago and applied :rolleyes:

anyone backing Trap is accused of been sheep and not capable of thinking for themselves well the irony is the vast majority of people up in arms werent fans odf Reid at all untill Dunphy and the likes started bleetin on about it, and I can guarantee you if he was on the team these would be same muppets that would be callin for he's head. ....''oh he contributes nothing he's lazy, cant tackle'' :rolleyes:

Rubbish.

Some noted that Reid doesn't track back the best in the same manner they note Duff gets injured alot or Keane does feck all for 80 minutes of a game.

They didn't use it as a reason for him to be axed from the squad.

Majority of people my hole.

nkay1985

When all is said and done, there's just no way Andy Reid shouldn't at least be in the squad. If you don't really rate him, he's definitely good enough to be in the squad if not on the bench or starting. If you think he doesn't contribute enough but don't doubt his ability, then he's exactly the type of player to have on the bench to come on and change a game. Either way, him not being in the squad is a travesty.

He offers us something we don't have in midfield but Trap has seen fit to not include him now that he's back on form and has lost the weight that he was carrying. If he hasn't included him now, I don't ever see it changing.

drkpower

Do you think this issue has enough traction to result in an "Andy Reid" chant if we are losing on Sat/Wed? Probably not, but perhaps a little public display might change Trap's mind.

While I am a Reid fan, it is amazing how low our stock has falen that the absence of a player as relatively average is causing some significant reaction. To think of all the years that O'Leary was frozen out and there wasnt much said about it.

Chucky the tree

drkpower wrote: »

Do you think this issue has enough traction to result in an "Andy Reid" chant if we are losing on Sat/Wed? Probably not, but perhaps a little public display might change Trap's mind.

While I am a Reid fan, it is amazing how low our stock has falen that the absence of a player as relatively average is causing some significant reaction. To think of all the years that O'Leary was frozen out and there wasnt much said about it.

Especially when Reid isn't even good enough to be in the starting 11. Atleast you could understand if all this was over Stephen Ireland.

Lord Trollington

I dont rate Christiano Ronaldo whatsoever....

madmandaniel

so for everyone on Trappattoni's side of the argument...
explain how Martin Rowlands deserves to be in the squad ahead of Andy Reid.. simple question... so somebody please answer
Andy Reid has played for Tottenham and Charlton while both of them were doing well in the Premiership.. He is now playing very well for Sunderland who will probably finish mid-table..
He is easily the best passer of the ball that is elegible to play for Ireland and is the most creative (apart from Stephen Ireland maybe)
He whips in good crosses and corners and has good free-kicks...
END OF ARGUMENT

fans 1 - 0 trap

If we actually didnt have all these personal issues within the squad our midfield would be great, we could have the best four out of the following decent-to-good players

mcgeady
duff
a. reid
s. reid
ireland
whelan
andrews
gibson
(kilbane even)

but instead we have only 4 options and 2 of them are very average

duff - whelan - andrews - mcgeady

Spiritoftheseventies

Yes good look to the lads tomorrow and all that but will curious to see if Italians are as hard on Cannavaro over recent developments.