Andy Reid and Ireland

Boskowski · 13-10-2009 12:24am

I don't get this thread. At all.

What is it with you guys? Are you masochists or something?

Trappatoni is the manager. He'll either play him or he won't. There's fvck all a 20 page thread with a poll on boards.ie can do about that. It's not like you're going to enforce a bloody referendum on this and then Trap goes 'Ah sure ya, if ye all want him so badly...'

So what's the point of this?

kryogen · 13-10-2009 12:32am

Godge wrote: »

291 posts about Andy Reid when we have drawn twice with the World Champions. Laughable.

If everyone is fit and available, the two Stephens would be the first choice midfield partnership with Whelan, Andrews and Gibson as back-up. Wide players would include Duff, S Hunt, Mcgeady, Keogh and Lawrence. That is at least 10 midfielders ahead of Andy Reid, many more than enough for a World Cup squad of 23. It comes down to whether to pick Martin Rowlands, Keith Fahey or Andy Reid if some of them are out.

A minor discussion.

in fairness its your post thats laughable

realcam wrote: »

I don't get this thread. At all.

What is it with you guys? Are you masochists or something?

Trappatoni is the manager. He'll either play him or he won't. There's fvck all a 20 page thread with a poll on boards.ie can do about that. It's not like you're going to enforce a bloody referendum on this and then Trap goes 'Ah sure ya, if ye all want him so badly...'

So what's the point of this?

and to you and the other lad, if the thread is pointless to you and and that then just save yourself the time and dont post in it! actually, if you dont see the point in threads on boards.ie at all then why are you here?

Neil3030 · 13-10-2009 12:41am

I'll admit I haven't read all the posts on here, but Cascarino summed up the Reid situation perfectly this evening on the Radio.

Reid is a skillful player and a definite asset when you've got the ball, but given that on average you're not going to have the ball 50% of the time, he'll need to prove, over a season, that he has the fitness levels to cope with defensive duties. Shedding the 9kg was a good start, now he needs to prove himself.

JPA · 13-10-2009 12:42am

Neil3030 wrote: »

I'll admit I haven't read all the posts on here, but Cascarino summed up the Reid situation perfectly this evening on the Radio.

Reid is a skillful player and a definite asset when you've got the ball, but given that on average you're not going to have the ball 50% of the time, he'll need to prove, over a season, that he has the fitness levels to cope with defensive duties. Shedding the 9kg was a good start, now he needs to prove himself.

Sorry, you said Cascarino and didn't mock him, you fail!

kryogen · 13-10-2009 12:59am

JPA wrote: »

Sorry, you said Cascarino and didn't mock him, you fail!

lol yeah he isnt really a great point of reference

Whatever it is with Reid and Trap is not about football, its clearly personal, so for that reason, with Trap being set in his ways we probably wont be seeing Reid again while Trap is manager, at least not till after the World Cup unless there is a huge injury crises

JPA · 13-10-2009 1:05am

With Trap signed up for the next campaign I think we could see the slate wiped clean when the next qualification games come around, that's just a feeling I have. I feel he likes continuity but will change it for the next campaign and start afresh.

Spiritoftheseventies · 13-10-2009 8:17am

Hope so. Looks as If Rowlands will be started in midfield. Again Fahey good enough to play in Premiership as is Reid but not good enough to start on Wednesday. A missed opportunity I think.
Will be curious to see how well this fiorentina striker Jokevic does following his brace against the Pool in last round of Champions league. Only nineteen.

Xavi6 · 13-10-2009 8:35am

bayviewclose wrote: »

Will be curious to see how well this fiorentina striker Jokevic does following his brace against the Pool in last round of Champions league. Only nineteen.

He's not playing through suspension.

Spiritoftheseventies · 13-10-2009 8:39am

Xavi6 wrote: »

He's not playing through suspension.

Shame. Too bad he was free to play against the pool. A very good player!

NukaCola · 13-10-2009 8:41am

Godge wrote: »

It comes down to whether to pick Martin Rowlands, Keith Fahey or Andy Reid if some of them are out.
A minor discussion.

To name Andy Reid in those 3 and say he doesn't deserve a place on current form is laughable to me. As i said earlier he deserves a place in the squad on current form. A minor discussion maybe but one worth having i would have thought....

realcam wrote: »

I don't get this thread. At all.

What is it with you guys? Are you masochists or something?

Trappatoni is the manager. He'll either play him or he won't. There's fvck all a 20 page thread with a poll on boards.ie can do about that. It's not like you're going to enforce a bloody referendum on this and then Trap goes 'Ah sure ya, if ye all want him so badly...'

So what's the point of this?

Are we as football fans not allowed to have a discussion on it. Are we not allowed to question why Trap is leaving him out because of non football reasons?

kryogen wrote: »

lol yeah he isnt really a great point of reference

Whatever it is with Reid and Trap is not about football, its clearly personal, so for that reason, with Trap being set in his ways we probably wont be seeing Reid again while Trap is manager, at least not till after the World Cup unless there is a huge injury crises

This is the sad truth and even though Trap has done a good job I think its small and petty of him not to select Reid in the team.

Catenaccio! · 13-10-2009 9:20am

bayviewclose wrote: »

Will be curious to see how well this fiorentina striker Jokevic does following his brace against the Pool in last round of Champions league. Only nineteen.

Um, was that the first game you've seen him play in?

noodler · 13-10-2009 11:20am

Neil3030 wrote: »

I'll admit I haven't read all the posts on here, but Cascarino summed up the Reid situation perfectly this evening on the Radio.

Reid is a skillful player and a definite asset when you've got the ball, but given that on average you're not going to have the ball 50% of the time, he'll need to prove, over a season, that he has the fitness levels to cope with defensive duties. Shedding the 9kg was a good start, now he needs to prove himself.

Bull****. Stp believeing the hype tht he is some major liability on the pitch ffs.

He was nothing but an asset when he played for Ireland.

Catenaccio! wrote: »

Um, was that the first game you've seen him play in?

Um, you've never seen Andy Reid play for Ireland so don't start.

Catenaccio! · 13-10-2009 11:56am

Um, I have, 27 times live and countless other times on television.

You lose

noodler · 13-10-2009 11:58am

Catenaccio! wrote: »

Um, I have, 27 times live and countless other times on television.

You lose

Yeah but you say he has NEVER once impressed you.

So you lie, basically.

Catenaccio! · 13-10-2009 12:00pm

No, I don't lie when I say he hasn't impressed me. He has impressed you. He hasn't impressed me.

It's really that simple kid.

zAbbo · 13-10-2009 12:04pm

John Giles made a good point on his radio bit that Charlton dropped players because they didn't suit his system and he preferred other 'lesser' players.

We're talking players like Liam Brady & Ronnie Whelen.

Also it took an unlikely Scottish win to take us to Euro 88, while we only won 1 game out of 9 in Italia 90 & USA 94 combined.

So that the success of a team overshadows these individual issues.

Personally I think people over-rate how good we are, we punched way above our weight for years, while recently trying playing a systemless gameplan with players who don't suit. At least Trap has addressed that, it's not pretty but it's working.

We're 2nd place, from 4th seeds and in with a shout of qualifying, we'd all have taken that at the start of the campaign.

noodler · 13-10-2009 12:07pm

Catenaccio! wrote: »

No, I don't lie when I say he hasn't impressed me. He has impressed you. He hasn't impressed me.

It's really that simple kid.

You lie, you said something outrageous by saying he has never impressed you so you went on the defensive by saying you haven't missed an Irish home international in 15 years.

That means you would have seen his displays against Israel, Germany and Cyprus to name a few yet you still say he has never impressed you. What about the premiership? Do you watch that at all?

Pighead · 13-10-2009 12:10pm

Catenaccio! wrote: »

No, I don't lie when I say he hasn't impressed me. He has impressed you. He hasn't impressed me.

It's really that simple kid.

Fair enough if you don't think that Reid fits into Traps system of playing but surely you think Reid has some good qualities as a player?

Catenaccio! · 13-10-2009 12:13pm

Pighead wrote: »

Fair enough if you don't think that Reid fits into Traps system of playing but surely you think Reid has some good qualities as a player?

That he can pass a ball? I don't think he's any better than we've got at the moment. If he was significantly better (as the majority are suggesting here) then he'd be in the squad, regardless of whatever went on between himself and Trapattoni. But the thing is, he isn't. We're doing better without him and we've now got a chance to qualify. We certainly don't need someone like Reid coming in and ruining our chance.

Catenaccio! · 13-10-2009 12:14pm

noodler wrote: »

You lie, you said something outrageous by saying he has never impressed you so you went on the defensive by saying you haven't missed an Irish home international in 15 years.

That means you would have seen his displays against Israel, Germany and Cyprus to name a few yet you still say he has never impressed you. What about the premiership? Do you watch that at all?

What's outrageous is that you still don't get what I'm saying. He's never impressed me.

I do watch the Premier League (changed from Premiership I'll have you know). Thanks for asking.

JimiTime · 13-10-2009 12:21pm

Catenaccio! wrote: »

That he can pass a ball? I don't think he's any better than we've got at the moment. If he was significantly better (as the majority are suggesting here) then he'd be in the squad, regardless of whatever went on between himself and Trapattoni. But the thing is, he isn't. We're doing better without him and we've now got a chance to qualify. We certainly don't need someone like Reid coming in and ruining our chance.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha...........ha haha ha ha. Well that settles it, you are clearly clueless.

premierstone · 13-10-2009 12:21pm

zAbbo wrote: »

John Giles made a good point on his radio bit that Charlton dropped players because they didn't suit his system and he preferred other 'lesser' players.

We're talking players like Liam Brady & Ronnie Whelen.

Also it took an unlikely Scottish win to take us to Euro 88, while we only won 1 game out of 9 in Italia 90 & USA 94 combined.

So that the success of a team overshadows these individual issues.

Personally I think people over-rate how good we are, we punched way above our weight for years, while recently trying playing a systemless gameplan with players who don't suit. At least Trap has addressed that, it's not pretty but it's working.

We're 2nd place, from 4th seeds and in with a shout of qualifying, we'd all have taken that at the start of the campaign.

Finally 22 pages in and someone is talking sense

Just seen todays examiner, I cant post links as im in work but basically they have an analysis of the press reaction in Italy to last saturday's game and its extremely complimentary to Irelands midfield and saying that Andrews and Gibson completely outplayed Italy and how they would love to have a winger like Lawerence!!

noodler · 13-10-2009 12:23pm

premierstone wrote: »

Finally 22 pages in and someone is talking sense

Just seen todays examiner, I cant post links as im in work but basically they have an analysis of the press reaction in Italy to last saturday's game and its extremely complimentary to Irelands midfield and saying that Andrews and Gibson completely outplayed Italy and how they would love to have a winger like Lawerence!!

In the Indo yesterday there was that quote from an Italian paper on Lawrence alright:

"If only we had a winger like him" etc. Grass is always greener.

zAbbo · 13-10-2009 12:24pm

premierstone wrote: »

Finally 22 pages in and someone is talking sense

Just seen todays examiner, I cant post links as im in work but basically they have an analysis of the press reaction in Italy to last saturday's game and its extremely complimentary to Irelands midfield and saying that Andrews and Gibson completely outplayed Italy and how they would love to have a winger like Lawerence!!

Yup, glowing reports for Lawrence, and rightly so.

JimiTime · 13-10-2009 12:27pm

zAbbo wrote: »

Yup, glowing reports for Lawrence, and rightly so.

Have to say he put in a great shift. Also, for a team that play the way we do, it is essential to have someone who can hit a dead ball. That has been sorely lacking.

slingerz · 13-10-2009 12:28pm

Lads if Ireland played 4-2-3-1 they have a much better set up that their current 4-4-2 system.

Steven Ireland is a massive loss with his attitude as is Steven Reid through injury. Andy Reid not being included is a crime.

Given

Kelly

Dunne

St.Ledger

O'Shea

S.Reid

A.Reid

Doyle

Ireland

McGeady

Keane

That is a much stronger team than the one that took the field v Italy

Xavi6 · 13-10-2009 12:30pm

slingerz wrote: »

Lads if Ireland played 4-2-3-1 they have a much better set up that their current 4-4-2 system.

Steven Ireland is a massive loss with his attitude as is Steven Reid through injury. Andy Reid not being included is a crime.
Given

Kelly
Dunne
St.Ledger
O'Shea
S.Reid
A.Reid

Doyle
Ireland
McGeady
Keane

That is a much stronger team than the one that took the field v Italy

But it can't happen so no point in bringing it up. If we played 4-2-3-1 with the current players we'd be even more negative than at the moment. At least now we have two out and out strikers up top.

P.S. Doyle out wide? WTF?

_blank_ · 13-10-2009 12:32pm

lolz.

A perma-injured player and a player who doesn't want to play.

Yeah, great team there.

And also, Doyle is not a winger, if anyone, you'd be looking at Hunt, Duff, Lawrence or Keogh in that position.

noodler · 13-10-2009 12:33pm

Xavi6 wrote: »

But it can't happen so no point in bringing it up. If we played 4-2-3-1 with the current players we'd be even more negative than at the moment. At least now we have two out and out strikers up top.

P.S. Doyle out wide? WTF?

Doyle has played wide for Reading umpteen times and is usually forced wide right to get the ball in the current Irish setup.

Still though, we have loads of wingers. We should always have two up top.

JimiTime · 13-10-2009 1:04pm

noodler wrote: »

Doyle has played wide for Reading umpteen times and is usually forced wide right to get the ball in the current Irish setup.

Still though, we have loads of wingers. We should always have two up top.

In the context of this thread, even having Andy Reid as an option to play in the hole between midfield and forward. So the two holding midfield players stay, the two wingers stay, and take off Doyle or Keane. So It'd be more like 4-4-1-1. Reid could be utilised in so many ways, I lament his exclusion from the squad.:(

noodler · 13-10-2009 1:11pm

JimiTime wrote: »

In the context of this thread, even having Andy Reid as an option to play in the hole between midfield and forward. So the two holding midfield players stay, the two wingers stay, and take off Doyle or Keane. So It'd be more like 4-4-1-1. Reid could be utilised in so many ways, I lament his exclusion from the squad.:(

Sure, whether Reid is in the team or not though, I don't think Robbie Keane leading the line on his own is ever the way to go.

JimiTime · 13-10-2009 5:35pm

noodler wrote: »

Sure, whether Reid is in the team or not though, I don't think Robbie Keane leading the line on his own is ever the way to go.

I had Doyle in mind. Target man type. That idea would be a substitute thing. A way to change things around without compromising the whole defensive strategy. Reid could could roam between midfield and attack, take the ball from Whelan and Andrews and help ball retention if we are in front, or spread it quick for McGeady and Duff or Doyle if we need a goal.

_blank_ · 13-10-2009 5:38pm

You want to drop Robbie Keane?

Yeah, good plan.

JimiTime · 13-10-2009 5:42pm

Des wrote: »

You want to drop Robbie Keane?

Yeah, good plan.

Eh, no. Must try harder smart @rse.

premierstone · 13-10-2009 7:40pm

JimiTime wrote: »

I had Doyle in mind. Target man type. That idea would be a substitute thing. A way to change things around without compromising the whole defensive strategy. Reid could could roam between midfield and attack, take the ball from Whelan and Andrews and help ball retention if we are in front, or spread it quick for McGeady and Duff or Doyle if we need a goal.

Des wrote: »

You want to drop Robbie Keane?

Yeah, good plan.

JimiTime wrote: »

Eh, no. Must try harder smart @rse.

So jimi are we goin to play 12 or will Robbie be in the back four

Spiritoftheseventies · 13-10-2009 8:21pm

Okay to the topic in hand. Where to play Reid. In the centre. Either beside Whelan or Andrews although I would be leaning towards a Whelan Reid partnership.
It seems to be a lazy stereotype that all creative midfielders will lose possession. yet what other team plays our system.
We have players like Fahey and Reid playing in the Premiership but yet they are not up to the rigours of international football.
If Reid can hold his own against the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Carrick etc against United he can do the same for Ireland.

noodler · 13-10-2009 10:01pm

bayviewclose wrote: »

Okay to the topic in hand. Where to play Reid. In the centre. Either beside Whelan or Andrews although I would be leaning towards a Whelan Reid partnership.
It seems to be a lazy stereotype that all creative midfielders will lose possession. yet what other team plays our system.
We have players like Fahey and Reid playing in the Premiership but yet they are not up to the rigours of international football.
If Reid can hold his own against the likes of Giggs, Scholes, Carrick etc against United he can do the same for Ireland.

People will give disagree, definitely a greater number than those feel he shouldn't be in the squad, but I would play him in the centre with Whelan holding just like he did play for Ireland numerous times under the two previous regimes. He would spray the ball around, turn opposition back fours with a pass and we might actually get the best of out our front players.

Any qualms people have about him not tracking back are well worth the advantages he would bring in my opinion. He plays fairly deep in the first place and his new fitness regime can only be a bonus in this respect. I would expect we would give the ball away alot less in the first place, at the very least I think he should be deployed in home games.

We could play him on the wing, but it limits his range of passing. He would have to be nominally on the right for me with mandate to cut inside but then we would lose width.

PHB · 13-10-2009 10:06pm

If A Reid is going to play, it cant be in the centre. It needs to be on the wings, and it needs to be creative. He just flatly doesn't work in Traps system playing in the middle.

For that matter, neither would Steven Ireland probably. He'd have to change the system, but Reid isn't good enough to change the system.

noodler · 13-10-2009 10:08pm

PHB wrote: »

If A Reid is going to play, it cant be in the centre. It needs to be on the wings, and it needs to be creative. He just flatly doesn't work in Traps system playing in the middle.

For that matter, neither would Steven Ireland probably. He'd have to change the system, but Reid isn't good enough to change the system.

I think Andy Reid could be asked to sit deep and pass from there.

Personally I think the the system would just work better with Reid in the middle.

I think back to the Germany game and see how he ran things there, even it it was a dead rubber tie.

kryogen · 13-10-2009 10:48pm

premierstone wrote: »

Finally 22 pages in and someone is talking sense

Just seen todays examiner, I cant post links as im in work but basically they have an analysis of the press reaction in Italy to last saturday's game and its extremely complimentary to Irelands midfield and saying that Andrews and Gibson completely outplayed Italy and how they would love to have a winger like Lawerence!!

well they obviously didnt watch the game then!

slingerz wrote: »

Lads if Ireland played 4-2-3-1 they have a much better set up that their current 4-4-2 system.

Steven Ireland is a massive loss with his attitude as is Steven Reid through injury. Andy Reid not being included is a crime.
Given

Kelly
Dunne
St.Ledger
O'Shea
S.Reid
A.Reid

Doyle
Ireland
McGeady
Keane

That is a much stronger team than the one that took the field v Italy

i have an idea, from now on why dont we line up like this

Given

O'Shea--Mcgrath--Dunne----Irwin

Mcateer---Keane---Giles----Brady

Keane

Quinn

As long as we are including guys who are not actually possibilities as some others have done of course

(not just directed at you Sligerz, just fed up of seeing S.Irelands name so much when its clear he will never be involved!)

Mr Alan · 13-10-2009 11:01pm

PHB wrote: »

For that matter, neither would Steven Ireland probably. He'd have to change the system, but Reid isn't good enough to change the system.

pretty sure trap said the same at some point, that if Ireland was to come back, trap would change the system to suit him.

noodler · 13-10-2009 11:07pm

Mr Alan wrote: »

pretty sure trap said the same at some point, that if Ireland was to come back, trap would change the system to suit him.

Do you think it would be a change of attitude or formation?

Mr Alan · 13-10-2009 11:11pm

no idea.

are you gonna shut up crying if we get to the world cup?

premierstone · 13-10-2009 11:13pm

kryogen wrote: »

well they obviously didnt watch the game then!

My bad kyrogen, I obviously meant our goalscorer Glenn Whelan

JimiTime · 14-10-2009 12:15am

premierstone wrote: »

So jimi are we goin to play 12 or will Robbie be in the back four

I started off with 'A substitute idea'. No call for 'dropping' keane. A simple idea, that does not compromise this whole back 4 plus 2 defensive mids. Just to reiterate, 'A substitute idea'.

The_B_Man · 14-10-2009 7:01am

All the recent comments about what Reid would bring to the team is all about his passing. I assume you're not talking about short passes, which any player on the team can do, so lets say its the long passes.

If thats the case, do we really wanna go back to playing the long ball? (even if it is the long ball with a bit more accuracy)

unless its about his crosses, in which case hunt can get a few crosses in too, but he also runs at players and forces errors which, in general, puts the opposing team under pressure.

Reid might charge down an opposing player who has the ball, or might run with the ball, but definately not to the extent hunt and mcgeady can, or even lawrence, who has impressed with his crosses.

So is the argument for reid's inclusion based solely on the fact that he can pick out a long ball pass (assuming keane/doyle get some space)?

i should point out im not a reid hater. I reckon he should definately be in the squad. just playing devils advocate here.

Spiritoftheseventies · 14-10-2009 8:23am

Its quite obvious that if Hunt, McGeady were doing their job we would not be talking about Reid.
The problem is that the flow of ball into the opposition box is predictable enough. Reid is more subtle in that approach. Ill say it again, he is probably the closest we have had to a Liam Brady since Whelan.
This is about form and Reid is the form player at the moment. Dont judge him on where he was last year.

Mitch Connor · 14-10-2009 8:25am

The_B_Man wrote: »

All the recent comments about what Reid would bring to the team is all about his passing. I assume you're not talking about short passes, which any player on the team can do, so lets say its the long passes.

How about creative short passes...

secman · 14-10-2009 10:22am

The_B_Man wrote: »

All the recent comments about what Reid would bring to the team is all about his passing. I assume you're not talking about short passes, which any player on the team can do, so lets say its the long passes.

If thats the case, do we really wanna go back to playing the long ball? (even if it is the long ball with a bit more accuracy)

unless its about his crosses, in which case hunt can get a few crosses in too, but he also runs at players and forces errors which, in general, puts the opposing team under pressure.

Reid might charge down an opposing player who has the ball, or might run with the ball, but definately not to the extent hunt and mcgeady can, or even lawrence, who has impressed with his crosses.

So is the argument for reid's inclusion based solely on the fact that he can pick out a long ball pass (assuming keane/doyle get some space)?

i should point out im not a reid hater. I reckon he should definately be in the squad. just playing devils advocate here.

I heard a statistic over the weekend that out of all the qualifiers in Europe, we were near top of the league for playing the long ball, think we were second !

Secman

Spiritoftheseventies · 14-10-2009 12:49pm

Heard Dunphy on Morning Ireland saying Doyle had been taken off relatively early in Italian match. Linking it to the fact that he was not getting the service in to him. Which is another reason for playing Reid IMO.

Andy Reid and Ireland

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