Andy Reid and Ireland

TheJesusWarrant

No matter which way you look at it Trap is an absolute disgrace. He's either stubborn or blind, there is no legitimate reason to leave Reid on current form out of the squad, none.

Lord Trollington

From looking at MOTD and The Premiership, Andy Reid ran the show, bossing play, comfortable on the ball, passes with pin point perfection.
And as for the free kick, well what can i say.
Sheer class.
Anything could sunderland done went through him.
He looks super fit and got around the park, he is in fact in the form of his life.

Its an absolute travesty that He is not in the Irish squad, a footballing sin.

Liam Miller in the squad lads, who just recently secured a full time contract i think we all agree is an absolute joke.
S
Trap can say what he likes about Reid, that he doesnt fit into his system or whatever but i think there can be absolutely no denying that Reid should be in the squad.

What if the system fails? What is his plan B. how do we unlock defences?
Keith Andrews? No!
Liam Miller? No!
Glen Whelan. No!

they are not the answer.

Trap WILL fall falt on his face from his decisions.

He is depriving Andy Reid, a man who genuinely wants to play for his country a chance.

His public courting of Stephen Ireland, someone who doesnt want to play is nothing more than a panto and must deeply hurt Reid who desperately wants to play.

Has Brady no balls whatsoever? Or is he as Roy Keane suggested just an interpreter??

jimmyendless

JPA wrote: »

For me, it's simply a case of Trap rewarding the players for the qualification campaign by sticking with them. It worked so stick with it is his thinking.
If we qualify he MIGHT change the squad up a little, and when we start into the next qualification campaign I think everyone is on a clean slate.

But the rowland lad hasn't been involved and was brought in because of injuries. That was the most obvious indication that trap hates andy. Did he break the guitar over his head or what? Did he say that trap looks alot like leslie nielsen.
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/6240/trapattoninielsen0sr.jpg

Did he mock his poor enlgrish?

Traps way or the highway, he is a moody pastabake.

Boskowski

No matter which way you look at it, I look at it this way:

It doesn't matter how much money you throw at a world class manager to grace a small football nation with his skills and experience you will always find a considerable number of armchair managers who are ready to tar and feather the man over one thing or the other.

Seriously lads. You should listen to yourself. 'Disgrace'?. 'Should have topped the group? Cos Italy and Bulgaria are muck'?

Wtf?

Ireland is number - what? - 33 in the world? I think - with all due respect, I love and support them myself - they're that for a reason.
I always thought that having a serious go at qualifying for an international FIFA or UEFA event was something quite out of the ordinary and worth celebrating.
I somehow must have missed that period in Irish international soccer where Ireland turned into this country that casually qualifies for those things which kind of left their supporters a bit spoiled of course.

Sorry if this sounds like I want to put Ireland down, I don't, but this is the reality and at the moment you don't even have a squad as good as you had a few years back.

I think they're doing great - not pretty - and so is their manager. Now bring on the French.

d22ontour

realcam wrote: »

It doesn't matter how much money you throw at a world class manager to grace a small football nation with his skills and experience you will always find a considerable number of armchair managers who are ready to tar and feather the man over one thing or the other.

Blah blah blah , you think we are not entitled to an opinion ?

realcam wrote: »

Seriously lads. You should listen to yourself. 'Disgrace'?. 'Should have topped the group?

You would have needed to watch all of our qualifiying matches to come to the conclusion that yes we should have.

realcam wrote: »

Cos Italy and Bulgaria are muck'?

Wtf?

They were muck in this group,Italy have been muck since they won the last world cup.Watch International football much ?

realcam wrote: »

Ireland is number - what? - 33 in the world? I think - with all due respect, I love and support them myself - they're that for a reason.

Zomg, what, the world rankings are factual now ?

realcam wrote: »

I always thought that having a serious go at qualifying for an international FIFA or UEFA event was something quite out of the ordinary and worth celebrating.

Pathetic cat thinks you are a piss taker now with no substance to any knowledge to our 10 qualifying games.

realcam wrote: »

I somehow must have missed that period in Irish international soccer where Ireland turned into this country that casually qualifies for those things which kind of left their supporters a bit spoiled of course.

Your 2 previous points brings you to troll cat nevermind pathetic cat.

realcam wrote: »

Sorry if this sounds like I want to put Ireland down, I don't, but this is the reality and at the moment you don't even have a squad as good as you had a few years back.

We kinda know that ya know, but, you still trolled our 10 games which we should have qualified from.

realcam wrote: »

I think they're doing great - not pretty - and so is their manager. Now bring on the French.

Now you are back to taking the piss as you know nothing of our group but base your opinion on heresay.

/cries

x in the city

IF, Irl make it to SA, we will get lamped left right and centre if this is the carry on we have to put up with, and if trap is as stubburn as it seems, then it looks that will be the case.

Eamon will have a field day after the france game, its the only thing im looking forward to tbh, himself and Bill...

Italy are poor, incredibly so and have zero chance of winning a world cup. look at the state of seria a.

Juve 2:0 up on Napoil and go losing the game, and dont talk about milan

(both of them...)

x in the city

there should be an option c)


andy will 'never' play for Ireland..........

Hank Scorpio

let it go lads

mormank

x in the city wrote: »

IF, Irl make it to SA, we will get lamped left right and centre if this is the carry on we have to put up with, and if trap is as stubburn as it seems, then it looks that will be the case.

Eamon will have a field day after the france game, its the only thing im looking forward to tbh, himself and Bill...

Italy are poor, incredibly so and have zero chance of winning a world cup. look at the state of seria a.

Juve 2:0 up on Napoil and go losing the game, and dont talk about milan

(both of them...)

how exaclty does one italian side losing a lead to another italian side show that italian football is goind down the tubes?? not relevant at all to what you are trying to say. to say that italy are muck is laughable, they may be out of form or whatever bu they are far from muck! i hate sensationalism

Spiritoftheseventies

Xavi6 wrote: »

His free kick today was a thing of beauty (and I called it before he even stepped up ).

How he can be omitted is beyond me. A disgrace.

Great free kick, sublime pass that set up the cross for the second goal. No disputing the fact that Reid on club form is best Irish midfielder at the moment.
But I think Bruce by suggesting to Reid he should apologize to Trap over the Guitar incident would indicate that this is not about systems but about mending fences.
Who knows as someone else said the slate might be wiped clean for next qualification campaign.
But its a terrible shame this situation cant be resolved. Would be great if FAI could get involved here like they did with Roy Keane prior to his return.
Keane drew a line under Saipan affair by returning to Ireland set up so Trap should really do the same.

The_B_Man

ye it'd be interesting if keane was still at sunderland. would he give the same advice to reid? probably not!!

pipeliner

i am actually at the stage where i fear that one of the irish regulars shows a bit of initiative in the pl and starts playing out of his skin incase he gets dropped.

I am really trying to get behind trap, but i feel that he really does not really care enough about the cause to take his head out of the sand and risk a player that would do nothing but improve the squad he is so adamant about.

LowOdour

If, god forbid, Keane and Duff's injuries kept them out of either match and Andy wasn't called up...then i wouldn't blame him to just retire from international football altogether. It would finally show that he has no chance with this manager.

Its turned into a very sad situation to be fair both for Andy and Trap. I dont think trap wants to be seen as weak in any shape or form, so he wont be prepared to back down from this stance.

drkpower

bayviewclose wrote: »

Keane drew a line under Saipan affair by returning to Ireland set up so Trap should really do the same.

Keane only came back after MMC had left - Im not sure if that is an accurate analogy. He only drew the line when his nemesis was gone.

This stubbornness from Trap is becoming highly irritating. Like I always felt with MMC, if you cannot manage certain personalioties to the benefit of your team and need to damage your team to prove your own authority, you are a weak manager.

Boskowski

d22ontour wrote: »

You would have needed to watch all of our qualifiying matches to come to the conclusion that yes we should have.

I did watch almost all of them.

d22ontour wrote: »

They were muck in this group,Italy have been muck since they won the last world cup.Watch International football much ?

I do. And if you did watch these matches without your pink goggles on you you'd notice that these games are rarely about glorious performances but mostly about some sort of basic solidness.

d22ontour wrote: »

Zomg, what, the world rankings are factual now ?

I agee, but while they're far from representing actual strength they're still not completely bogus. Ireland is not a great football nation. Sorry they're not. They're on the fringes of Europe, that's a fact.

Their domestic situation won't allow them to be anything else and without the 'granny rule' things would be a lot worse.

d22ontour wrote: »

Now you are back to taking the piss as you know nothing of our group but base your opinion on heresay.

Unfortunately that's not true. I watched almost all Ireland matches in the last 10 years or so. And recently they have come back from being utterly disappointing, unable to play the likes of Cyprus at home even, to a much more solid setup.

I have to remind you that most of the time qualifying groups are about 2 or 3 contenders in each group. These contenders must not slip up against the non-contenders and what really counts is how they do against the other contenders.

What I've seen is that Ireland were fairly solid but more than once called 'lucky' even by hardcore Ireland supporters. First game in Italy Ireland was fortunate with the early send-off, no way they'd get a point out of the match without that. Second game at home Italy was content to do what they had to do. When they went down with not much on the clock it took them all of 3 minutes to force a goal.

Taking from this that Ireland should have topped the group is an overly optimistic point of view. Could Ireland have topped the group? Yes, they could have. But should have? No.

LuckyLloyd

x in the city wrote: »

Italy are poor, incredibly so and have zero chance of winning a world cup. look at the state of seria a.

Juve 2:0 up on Napoil and go losing the game, and dont talk about milan

(both of them...)

Just like France were incredibly poor when we were trying to qualify for the 2006 WC, right? Just like we were told that they were aging, past it, there for the taking blah, blah. Then they went and made the final of the tournament.

We do this every qualification campaign, every World Cup or European Championship group stage. It is the same charge every time, the only thing that changes is which of the traditional powers is experiencing a dip in their powers: Germany, Italy, France, Holland, Spain, England, Portugal. One or two is always "in crisis" coming into these tournaments. What no - one seems to notice is the fact that they are always there or thereabouts. Five or more always qualify, one or more always make the semi - finals / finals.

People seem to expect that they will walk over all opposition and have a divine right to slide into the latter stages of whatever current International Competition is taking place. And anything less is "ZOMG, THE DEATH OF ____ FOOTBALL!!!"

It is so ****ing stupid, seriously. What makes Italy...Italy is their ability to qualify over and over and over. They do enough. If Ireland had played better, Italy would have lifted it a little more. They do the bare minimum because it is all that is required. And a down period for Italian football means having a ton of extra talent to choose from relative to when we have a down period (and this is a down period for Irish football). It's a simple numbers game, just consider the amount of Italians playing football professionally and compare it to the number of Irish people playing football professionally. They always have an edge, the question is just how great that edge is.

The Italian team of 2006, the Greek team of 2004, the German team of 2002 were all supposed to have "zero chance" of winning a major tournament. You can look at pretty much every tournament ever held and find a member of the final four that were written off in certain quarters before the competition began. When will people learn to avoid this sweeping nonsense and simply respect the consistency and constancy of the great footballing countries? Accept that they always have some chance?

And appreciate when our more limited pool of professional footballers get it together well enough as a team to achieve even a little success?

gosplan

So despite the Italians being generally superior in every department and the Bulgarians having a better selection of players*, we now SHOULD have topped the group.

No, just no. How can anyone say that the current world cup champions shouldn't have topped their group?

The Italians SHOULD have topped the group and did.

The Bulgarians SHOULD have finished second going on their quality but they didn't, we did.

We did because we had a better setup, a more organised team and we didn't lose games.

Now who do you think is responsible for that?

The post a few before is basically negative thinking. We now have a good setup and a motivated team. Suddenly people expect that that's the base line and it's up to the manager to build on that? You're basically giving Trappatoni no credit for bringing the Ireland squad from a state of disarray to being the functional unit it is now.

Good management is about getting the unit to perform better than the sum of it's parts. Well done Trapp!

BTW, Reid * 2 and Finnan should be in the WC squad should we make it. I'm kind of surprised none of them made it in the playoffs but I can understand not wanting to change things and I'll more than willing at this stage to trust in this manager.

d22ontour wrote: »

Considering how poor the group was we should have topped it.

:D Seriously,that's the most rose tinted thinking ever. Find a non-irish person who follows football and tell them that opinion. Then get back to me when they stop laughing.

d22ontour wrote: »

As much as i want us to qualify, i would be happier, if we were to fail, knowing we picked the best players at our disposal.

So you'd rather we picked the two Reid's and didn't qualify than if we successfully qualified vrs France in a two-legged tie without them.

Can you please please please please expand on that? What the hell is your rational?


*Before the argument comes - yes they do!!!

x in the city

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Just like France were incredibly poor when we were trying to qualify for the 2006 WC, right? Just like we were told that they were aging, past it, there for the taking blah, blah. Then they went and made the final of the tournament.

We do this every qualification campaign, every World Cup or European Championship group stage. It is the same charge every time, the only thing that changes is which of the traditional powers is experiencing a dip in their powers: Germany, Italy, France, Holland, Spain, England, Portugal. One or two is always "in crisis" coming into these tournaments. What no - one seems to notice is the fact that they are always there or thereabouts. Five or more always qualify, one or more always make the semi - finals / finals.

People seem to expect that they will walk over all opposition and have a divine right to slide into the latter stages of whatever current International Competition is taking place. And anything less is "ZOMG, THE DEATH OF ____ FOOTBALL!!!"

It is so ****ing stupid, seriously. What makes Italy...Italy is their ability to qualify over and over and over. They do enough. If Ireland had played better, Italy would have lifted it a little more. They do the bare minimum because it is all that is required. And a down period for Italian football means having a ton of extra talent to choose from relative to when we have a down period (and this is a down period for Irish football). It's a simple numbers game, just consider the amount of Italians playing football professionally and compare it to the number of Irish people playing football professionally. They always have an edge, the question is just how great that edge is.

The Italian team of 2006, the Greek team of 2004, the German team of 2002 were all supposed to have "zero chance" of winning a major tournament. You can look at pretty much every tournament ever held and find a member of the final four that were written off in certain quarters before the competition began. When will people learn to avoid this sweeping nonsense and simply respect the consistency and constancy of the great footballing countries? Accept that they always have some chance?

And appreciate when our more limited pool of professional footballers get it together well enough as a team to achieve even a little success?

what your saying is correct, but the crux of the matter here is our 'limited' group of players could be aided considerably by the inclusion of players like reid and Ireland.

its not rocket science and it is undermining the potential of the team.

as it stands, Ireland are punching above their weight, for how much longer remains to be seen.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=451433

Spiritoftheseventies

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=451433

Yes it seems everyone is in agreement about Reid. We just have to keep getting the message through. We will not be silenced

Johnny Utah

There's going to be some backlash by the media when we lose the play-off. I can see Trap having another 'Strunz' outburst in a press conference soon! :D:D

secman

If Duff, a left winger is doubtful, I presume Trapp is going to call up a replacement player, ie a left winger, and an in form one. say Andy Reid !

When we required a replacement Centre half, we called up Sean St Ledger, a bit of an unknown , no problem there, we gambled and he's not too bad.

With the Duff situation we would be calling up a player with International experience , current Premiership form, a ready replacement, ie left sided winger/ midfield player. Duff is a better dribbler than Reid but his crosses are not great, Reid strikes a ball better, sees a pass and can execute it.
Usually when a squad member is out due to injury ,the replacement called in usually dilutes the strenght of the squad but it is very debatable as to whether Reid replacing Duff would dilute the overall strenght of the squad.


Trapp .. Do the Decent thing, you have an opportunity to do so.


Secman

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Just to show everyone what we're missing - http://www.readytogo.net/smb/showthread.php?t=452911

In the form of his life.

TheJesusWarrant

Reid's in such great form that if we don't make it to South Africa we'll always 'wonder what if'. Would anyone wonder 'what if' Liam Miller was in the squad?

The Muppet

He should definitely be in the squad, the decision to omit him for non footballing reasons will become a problem when results don't go our way.

flahavaj

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes it seems everyone is in agreement about Reid. We just have to keep getting the message through. We will not be silenced

You think Trappatoni one of the greatest managers ever, will give two sh*tes about you posting your opinion on a message board? Ah come on, seriously???

noodler

flahavaj wrote: »

You think Trappatoni one of the greatest managers ever, will give two sh*tes about you posting your opinion on a message board? Ah come on, seriously???

Well you keep quiet about it if you don't agree but those of us who disagree are still going to give out socks over the stupidity of the decision.

BTW its a message board on the internet alright, you think Rafa hears you in the Liverpool forum?

flahavaj

noodler wrote: »

BTW its a message board on the internet alright, you think Rafa hears you in the Liverpool forum?

Of course not, don't be ridiculous. But the notion that posting on here is in some way "getting the meaaage through" to the Irish management, as bayviewclose said, is beyond preposterous.

Spiritoftheseventies

flahavaj wrote: »

Of course not, don't be ridiculous. But the notion that posting on here is in some way "getting the meaaage through" to the Irish management, as bayviewclose said, is beyond preposterous.

How so? Board Poster here had an Andy Raid banner up at last match. So obviously it worked. And to keep the cause going Herald have a nice piece on Reid on back sports page today with him showing off his ball skills in Fatima mansions.

gosplan

bayviewclose wrote: »

How so? Board Poster here had an Andy Raid banner up at last match. So obviously it worked. And to keep the cause going Herald have a nice piece on Reid on back sports page today with him showing off his ball skills in Fatima mansions.

There are a lot of things I don't know about Trappatoni but he really doesn't seem like the kind of manager that's going to cave in to public pressure.

He'd probably put Reid in his fantasy football team though.

Spiritoftheseventies

gosplan wrote: »

There are a lot of things I don't know about Trappatoni but he really doesn't seem like the kind of manager that's going to cave in to public pressure.

He'd probably put Reid in his fantasy football team though.

Yes all we can do is hope that he has a last minute change of heart. All down to Trap now.

Boskowski

bayviewclose wrote: »

Yes all we can do is hope that he has a last minute change of heart. All down to Trap now.

Ye, manager sees his 'failure' on the back of some online petition.

That happens a lot...

Spiritoftheseventies

realcam wrote: »

Ye, manager sees his 'failure' on the back of some online petition.

That happens a lot...

Not just an online petition. Look at the poll. nine out of every ten say Reid should return. Thats a good barometer I think. Like I said all we can do is hope that he has a last minute change of heart. All down to Trap now.

Rob113

Whatever about Trap's opinion of Reid as a person there is no denying he is probably our best midfielder (with the exception of the baldy fella from Cork, who im delighted cant get into the man city side at the moment). Even if he doesnt want to upset the 'system' by starting him, surely if we are chasing a game with 15 mins to go, would you rather we simply pumped aimless balls into the box or have Andy Reid pick clever defence splitting passes or actually place the ball on the head of one of our players. How there is no room for him in a 22 man squad is absolutely ridiculous. Bring him in watch him in training put him under strict orders and see can he stick to them.

noodler

bayviewclose wrote: »

Not just an online petition. Look at the poll. nine out of every ten say Reid should return. Thats a good barometer I think. Like I said all we can do is hope that he has a last minute change of heart. All down to Trap now.

I am not sure we can bring anyone into the squad for Saturday once it is announced.

EDIT: Not that Trap would anyway.

flahavaj

bayviewclose wrote: »

Not just an online petition. Look at the poll. nine out of every ten say Reid should return. Thats a good barometer I think. Like I said all we can do is hope that he has a last minute change of heart. All down to Trap now.

Power to the people.:rolleyes:

CHD

Jesus, you'd swear Reid is as good as Messi after reading this thread

noodler

CHD wrote: »

Jesus, you'd swear Reid is as good as Messi after reading this thread

You'd swear you'd never seen Trap's ROI team play after reading your post.

CHD

I have and they are about to play in a WC Qualifying playoff. They are pretty good.

Trapp's a genius.

noodler

CHD wrote: »

I have and they are about to play in a WC Qualifying playoff. They are pretty good.

Trapp's a genius.

The correct answer I was looking for is they lack attacking flair and can't hold onto possession.

Jesus you'd swear Trap was the messiah or something after reading your post.

starbelgrade

noodler wrote: »

Jesus you'd swear Trap was the messiah or something

Nope - but he IS Lesley Neilson with a fake Italian accent.

CHD

noodler wrote: »

The correct answer I was looking for is they lack attacking flair and can't hold onto possession.

Jesus you'd swear Trap was the messiah or something after reading your post.

He's the football messiah in Ireland.

starbelgrade

Andy Reid is playing well this season - but not so good last season. In 10 games this year, he's scored 4 & assisted in 5 goals - last season, it took him 30 starts & 14 from the bench to get just 2 goals & 7 assists.

In the meantime, Trap has set up a squad & a system that has stood well by us. If we do qualify, I'd like to see him get a few run-outs in the warm-ups to the World Cup just to see how he fits in - at least these days he actually fits into something (namely his shorts).



Have to love Trap's interviews though - after the Italy game when they asked him (again) on RTE about Reid, his reply was class.. "whaad? De Andeereiiid, de Andeeereeeeid? AGAIN? Oh, pleeeeze!"

Boskowski

Rob113 wrote: »

Whatever about Trap's opinion of Reid as a person there is no denying he is probably our best midfielder (with the exception of the baldy fella from Cork, who im delighted cant get into the man city side at the moment). Even if he doesnt want to upset the 'system' by starting him, surely if we are chasing a game with 15 mins to go, would you rather we simply pumped aimless balls into the box or have Andy Reid pick clever defence splitting passes or actually place the ball on the head of one of our players. How there is no room for him in a 22 man squad is absolutely ridiculous. Bring him in watch him in training put him under strict orders and see can he stick to them.

Ye, thats my take on it too.
Whatever happened between him and Trap and whatever about the system. He's givin Trap an additional option with the clock running down and the need of making something happen. Which is not so unlikely after all.

Which doesn't mean I changed my mind that 'the system' was the only way of getting Ireland to where they are now.

It also doesn't mean I changed my mind about the fact it ain't going to happen and the pointlessness of an online petition/poll and the illusion this is going to make a difference whatsoever.

Kinetic^

Much like the situation with Stephen Ireland, the ball is in the player's court. I know he's been playing really well but I'd imagine something like a public apology would be the way to go imo.

JPA

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Much like the situation with Stephen Ireland, the ball is in the player's court. I know he's been playing really well but I'd imagine something like a public apology would be the way to go imo.

sheeeeeeiiiiiiittttttttt, I think you're right.

noodler

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Much like the situation with Stephen Ireland, the ball is in the player's court. I know he's been playing really well but I'd imagine something like a public apology would be the way to go imo.

Speculation tbh.

We don't know the facts. If he really is in the wrong then why should the apology be public?

Moreover, it means Trap has been lieing to our faces for a year about the reasons for excluding him.

noodler

starbelgrade wrote: »

Nope - but he IS Lesley Neilson with a fake Italian accent.

That he most certainly is.

"Donta wurry bout da Andy Reida! Justa look ata ma sexy translator!

Evil_Clown

BBC on the Reid situation

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/8353705.stm

Aidric

Evil_Clown wrote: »

BBC on the Reid situation

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/8353705.stm

Macedonia? :rolleyes: