The Rise of the Irish Far Right

Het-Field

The comments of Richard Greene (Coir and potential party status) has got me thinking about the future of the Irish far right. This decade alone we have seen a large increase in those prepared to endorse the far right. This includes the large scale, and public activity of Coir, the large vote commanded by Declan Ganley in 2009, the negligible (but noteworthy) increases of vote for the Immigration Control Platform, and the regular rise in racist attacks which have occured around the country. The groups who proffer the message of the far right also have increasing access to the media by virtue of their frontline defence on issues such as immigration. In the last election the ICP were often quoted as the issue recieved more and more coverage. This is in spite of the fact that they have no real mandate on the issue, and are a small pressure group who have no desire to disclose their membership numbers, which no doubt amount to little more than an A4 page full of names.

Furthermore, scaremongering about traditionally "right wing issues" have contributed to the defeat of two referenda this decade. It failed in 2009, and the revelation about Justin Barrett's Nazi Boy tendancies highlighted how averse most are to the Far right. In spite of this, Barrett's crowd still play an effective role, and still are given widespreadaccess to the media, in spite of the fact that with the exception of Richard Greene, none have been elected, they are often quoted, and will play a large role in the coming years when family values are at issue. Remember, it is likely that the issue of Abortion will be revisited in 2012, as the pro-life members of the government seek to implement the policy which was rejected in 2002. This will give Coir another chance to emerge, and it is clear that they will not do so under the guise of "Youth Defence".

This is of equaly concern, as groups like "Youth Defence", "The Mother and Child Campaign", along with the Christian Solidarity Party, the nuttier wing of Libertas, young and misguided Neo Cons may actually be able to form a well funded and cogent movement, which attracts much support from the world wide network of rabid pro lifers. It could come under the name "Coir". However, it may simply change its names. Dont worry, they will be recognisable as the faces will remain the same.

Furthermore, the rise has also occured outside of Ireland. In 2002 Jean Marie Le Pen shocked the plitical world by beating out Lionel Jospin to enjoy the privilege of being beaten by Jaques Chirac. Furthermore, the European Parliment is now peppered with members of the far right, including the BNP, whose origins can be traced to a split in the John Tyndall led National Front. Of course, Mr Tyndall was open about his Nazi sympathies, and there are countless photographs of him in Nazi regalia.

This decade has seen a rise in this type of polatik. Is there a chance that a cogent movement of the far right could unite, and seek to stand in 2012 (or sooner) as candidates for the dail ? Or at very least, have they managed to get a "foot in the door" of the media. They will continue to be quoted, and as their ideas are dissseminated they will attract people.

Thus, I feel this decade is not a good decade for those who seek to promote progress and tolerance in society.

Victor

I think such groups will remain as a small minority, rarely getting more than about 1% of the electorate at national elections.

Referendums are different. No party can claim that the a referendum is an endorsement of their party. It is merely an endorsement (or not) of the particular referendum coupled with the feelgood/bad factor of the day.

Le Pen / Jospin / Chirac was an election skewed by a fragmented electorate and an over-sized slate - Le Pen only got 16-17% a fair cry from the 50% needed to get elected.

Most of what Ganley got was a protest vote and not a core Libertas vote.

prinz

It is a concern I share. Far right wing movements are on the increase again, particularly in countries such as Hungary in the east, Eastern Germany, Italy. There has been talk of the UKIP merging with the BNP, and they seem to have forged links with the FPO in Austria (those of Jorg Hairder fame) in establishing an ideological bloc in the European Parliament. The emergence of various right wing groups during the run up to the referendum was of interest tbh. It falls to all of us to ensure they never get a foothold in power in this country, and judging by some of the posts over on the EU forum, both before the vote and since I can see far right parties actually doing quite well here unfortunately. The economic conditions are coming together to facilitate it.

mike65

Nah, seen it all before - in Fine Gael! Remember old right wing nutters like Alice Glenn? Youth Defence have been around for thick end of 2 decades and have made bugger all impact beyond defacing Brendan Howlins house (or was it his mothers?). The Immigration Control Platform could hold their AGM in a garage, the idea that this desperate lot could somehow form an effective whole and organise themselves well enough to wins seats is eye-brow raising.

tba

I believe it to be the final strike of a dying animal, doomed to extinction but unwilling to go out gracefully.

Red Alert

The only person mentioned so far who has any hope of building a credible parliamentary following is Declan Ganley. For the record, I've no problem with him per-se, I want to see his post-Lisbon policies so I can decide whether to vote for him or not. I also thought on yesterday's radio programmes on the outcome of the Lisbon referendum he did quite well.

Pride Fighter

I was glad with the demise of the PD's as Irelands far right party. However if their niche is to be replaced with lunatics like COIR and ICP I'd want them back. PD's were a horrible party, but at least they were socially liberal, to go with their ultra-liberal economic policies. Libertas got about 5% at the Euro's, ICP and the other christian right would add a percent of 1-2 to that. With 6-7% well managed they could gain 20-30 town and county council seats and maybe 4-8 TD seats. Could be worrying times ahead.

Victor

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I was glad with the demise of the PD's as Irelands far right party. However if their niche is to be replaced with lunatics like COIR and ICP I'd want them back. PD's were a horrible party, but at least they were socially liberal, to go with their ultra-liberal economic policies. Libertas got about 5% at the Euro's, ICP and the other christian right would add a percent of 1-2 to that. With 6-7% well managed they could gain 20-30 town and county council seats and maybe 4-8 TD seats. Could be worrying times ahead.

You need to distinguish economic from social policies.

dresden8

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I PD's were a horrible party, but at least they were socially liberal, to go with their ultra-liberal economic policies.

Well they were quite liberal with their expenses claims in FAS, in that you were correct.

Kev_ps3

This is nothing but nonsense from boards.ie usual liberal loudmouths. How can you complain about this non-existent 'far right' when we have people in power in this county who have wreaked it to such an extent that future generations will still be paying off for their criminal policy's.

Kev_ps3

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

This is nothing but nonsense from boards.ie usual liberal loudmouths. How can you complain about this non-existent 'far right' when we have people in power in this county who have wreaked it to such an extent that future generations will still be paying off for their criminal policy's.

Because at least at the moment we can buy condoms.

Bottle_of_Smoke

I think its a few years off. When all the African/Asian immigrants have grown up children and we have more black/asian schools I have no doubt there'll be a BNP type movement.

The problem is moderates like Kevin Myers or Leo Varadkar get called Nazis for even mentioning the subject or putting forward suggestions, which makes an extremist group more likely

Amhran Nua

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I think its a few years off. When all the African/Asian immigrants have grown up children and we have more black/asian schools I have no doubt there'll be a BNP type movement.

That depends on how integrated into Irish culture and society they become. If we end up in a ghetto type situation it might lead to trouble, although I have to say I take a certain amount of pride in the generally open and accepting attitude of the Irish people so far.

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

The problem is moderates like Kevin Myers

This is the same Myers that was last heard saying the Irish people were gentically inferior?

Spiritoftheseventies

Het-Field wrote: »

The comments of Richard Greene (Coir and potential party status) has got me thinking about the future of the Irish far right. This decade alone we have seen a large increase in those prepared to endorse the far right. This includes the large scale, and public activity of Coir, the large vote commanded by Declan Ganley in 2009, the negligible (but noteworthy) increases of vote for the Immigration Control Platform, and the regular rise in racist attacks which have occured around the country. The groups who proffer the message of the far right also have increasing access to the media by virtue of their frontline defence on issues such as immigration. In the last election the ICP were often quoted as the issue recieved more and more coverage. This is in spite of the fact that they have no real mandate on the issue, and are a small pressure group who have no desire to disclose their membership numbers, which no doubt amount to little more than an A4 page full of names.

Furthermore, scaremongering about traditionally "right wing issues" have contributed to the defeat of two referenda this decade. It failed in 2009, and the revelation about Justin Barrett's Nazi Boy tendancies highlighted how averse most are to the Far right. In spite of this, Barrett's crowd still play an effective role, and still are given widespreadaccess to the media, in spite of the fact that with the exception of Richard Greene, none have been elected, they are often quoted, and will play a large role in the coming years when family values are at issue. Remember, it is likely that the issue of Abortion will be revisited in 2012, as the pro-life members of the government seek to implement the policy which was rejected in 2002. This will give Coir another chance to emerge, and it is clear that they will not do so under the guise of "Youth Defence".

This is of equaly concern, as groups like "Youth Defence", "The Mother and Child Campaign", along with the Christian Solidarity Party, the nuttier wing of Libertas, young and misguided Neo Cons may actually be able to form a well funded and cogent movement, which attracts much support from the world wide network of rabid pro lifers. It could come under the name "Coir". However, it may simply change its names. Dont worry, they will be recognisable as the faces will remain the same.

Furthermore, the rise has also occured outside of Ireland. In 2002 Jean Marie Le Pen shocked the plitical world by beating out Lionel Jospin to enjoy the privilege of being beaten by Jaques Chirac. Furthermore, the European Parliment is now peppered with members of the far right, including the BNP, whose origins can be traced to a split in the John Tyndall led National Front. Of course, Mr Tyndall was open about his Nazi sympathies, and there are countless photographs of him in Nazi regalia.

This decade has seen a rise in this type of polatik. Is there a chance that a cogent movement of the far right could unite, and seek to stand in 2012 (or sooner) as candidates for the dail ? Or at very least, have they managed to get a "foot in the door" of the media. They will continue to be quoted, and as their ideas are dissseminated they will attract people.

Thus, I feel this decade is not a good decade for those who seek to promote progress and tolerance in society.

A lot of very strong claims you are making there. Yes Vote won through and still some looking for pound of flesh. If anything I would have said the campaign has shown how little tolerance there is for people on the left. Higgins almost derided in some quarters for daring to defend workers rights while others are castigated for questioning the workings of Europe. End of the day, Yes vote won through. Leave it at that.

turgon

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

This is nothing but nonsense from boards.ie usual liberal loudmouths. How can you complain about this non-existent 'far right' when we have people in power in this county who have wreaked it to such an extent that future generations will still be paying off for their criminal policy's.

A completely misguided comment. If those in power were really liberal and right wing, economically, they would not have raised the social welfare and public service bills to such high levels so that are children will have to pay. Are you even aware of what far right economically means?

bayviewclose wrote: »

Higgins almost derided in some quarters for daring to defend workers rights

Are you being serious? The reason he was derided was because he was lying and thus not defending workers rights.

r0nanf

Unfortunately right wing ideology always grows in popularity during times of economic depression.

The_Minister

As per my previous thread, I blame Boards:pac:

On a serious note, I think it is a serious concern, and I think that if certain issues are not addressed then we will see a right-wing movement rise in Ireland.

djpbarry

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

The problem is moderates like Kevin Myers or Leo Varadkar get called Nazis for even mentioning the subject or putting forward suggestions...

What suggestions has Mr. Myers put forward and what are these suggestions pertaining to? It’s a long time since I’ve read anything he’s written, but I seem to recall that he spent a tremendous amount of column inches making unsubstantiated claims and plucking “statistics” from thin air. He’s a sensationalist whose sole purpose is to generate controversy and sell newspapers.

Amhran Nua wrote: »

That depends on how integrated into Irish culture and society they become. If we end up in a ghetto type situation it might lead to trouble...

That depends on what people mean when they say “ghetto”; like “integration” and “multi-culturalism”, it’s a term that gets thrown around an awful lot without having any specific meaning attached to it. While it’s unlikely that a particular area in say, Dublin, will come to be dominated by one non-Irish ethnic group (the historical meaning of the term ghetto, as far as I’m aware), there will always be areas in which a large percentage of the population are foreign, such as the northern inner-city. Areas such as these tend to attract immigrants for the obvious reason that (a) Irish people generally don’t want to live in these neighbourhoods and, consequently, (b) rents are lower than elsewhere.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Amhran Nua wrote: »

That depends on how integrated into Irish culture and society they become. If we end up in a ghetto type situation it might lead to trouble, although I have to say I take a certain amount of pride in the generally open and accepting attitude of the Irish people so far.

Yes, it does depend on that. I'm just not convinced the governent is doing anything to prevent ghettoisation or mass immigration from countries with vastly different cultures to ours. Pride comes before a fall and I think you have rose tinted glasses on. There's a lot of disgruntlement with non-nationals if you talk to people on the ground.

the same Myers that was last heard saying the Irish people were gentically inferior?

Possibly, he writes for the independent.

djpbarry wrote:

What suggestions has Mr. Myers put forward and what are these suggestions pertaining to? It’s a long time since I’ve read anything he’s written, but I seem to recall that he spent a tremendous amount of column inches making unsubstantiated claims and plucking “statistics” from thin air. He’s a sensationalist whose sole purpose is to generate controversy and sell newspapers

He complains that no one is willing to discuss the implications of immigration to Ireland. For that alone he gets attacked by various groups.

OldJay

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

The problem is moderates like Kevin Myers . . .

Contrarians can never be so-called moderates. This means they would have to adhere to a 'side' thus losing half their shock-value profile.
A disaster for a hedonistic, contrarian journalist.
The sooner people stop looking to pigeon-hole others, the better.

As far as right-wing extremism goes, its not too hard to see through the lies. If someone doesn't want to though there's not too much you can do about it except say to yourself "may all your children and grandchildren mix well be Khans, Goldbergs, Singhs, Changs or Mwenges ".
Its easy to prove a racist wrong. Its hard to convince them they're wrong.

PaulieD

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

He complains that no one is willing to discuss the implications of immigration to Ireland. For that alone he gets attacked by various groups.

The problem with Myers is, sometimes he writes excellent articles on immigration but ruins it by producing trash like this; http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/africa-is-giving-nothing-to-anyone--apart-from-aids-1430428.html

He is a sensationalist, he wants a reaction, it sells papers. It is a pity, as he has written a dozen or so decent articles on the impacts of immigration, without ever really expanding on his points in future articles.

dsmythy

r0nanf wrote: »

Unfortunately right wing ideology always grows in popularity during times of economic depression.

Same goes for the ever violent far-left. The extremes always make their inroads.

Spiritoftheseventies

turgon wrote: »

A completely misguided comment. If those in power were really liberal and right wing, economically, they would not have raised the social welfare and public service bills to such high levels so that are children will have to pay. Are you even aware of what far right economically means?



Are you being serious? The reason he was derided was because he was lying and thus not defending workers rights.

think you will find Higgins has an excellent record when it comes to defending workers right. Took on the case of the Gama workers a few years ago.

turgon

bayviewclose wrote: »

think you will find Higgins has an excellent record when it comes to defending workers right. Took on the case of the Gama workers a few years ago.

I think you will find that if you read the Treaty, particularly the CoFR, you will find its good for workers rights. Thus being against the Treaty, he was against workers rights. Read the CoFR yourself if you dont believe me.

nesf

Pride Fighter wrote: »

I was glad with the demise of the PD's as Irelands far right party. However if their niche is to be replaced with lunatics like COIR and ICP I'd want them back. PD's were a horrible party, but at least they were socially liberal, to go with their ultra-liberal economic policies. Libertas got about 5% at the Euro's, ICP and the other christian right would add a percent of 1-2 to that. With 6-7% well managed they could gain 20-30 town and county council seats and maybe 4-8 TD seats. Could be worrying times ahead.

Seriously, ex-PD voters and Cóir voters are two extremely different breeds. I don't think anyone with any knowledge of both groups would worry about Cóir filling the PD's niche.

eamo127

Look at yourself first before you accuse all that disagree with you of racism. Remember, the NAZIs were committed and loyal socialsts - much closer to your own idealogy I suspect.

Spiritoftheseventies

turgon wrote: »

I think you will find that if you read the Treaty, particularly the CoFR, you will find its good for workers rights. Thus being against the Treaty, he was against workers rights. Read the CoFR yourself if you dont believe me.

sorry treaty is done and dusted. why you still arguing over old stuff?

turgon

bayviewclose wrote:

sorry treaty is done and dusted. why you still arguing over old stuff?

Perhaps you should follow the thread. Someone stated he supported workers rights, I said that his latest campaign was against workers rights.

Spiritoftheseventies

turgon wrote: »

Perhaps you should follow the thread. Someone stated he supported workers rights, I said that his latest campaign was against workers rights.

Yes saw that. And Ill say it again he isn't against Workers rights. End of.

Het-Field

nesf wrote: »

Seriously, ex-PD voters and Cóir voters are two extremely different breeds. I don't think anyone with any knowledge of both groups would worry about Cóir filling the PD's niche.

Throughout my three year involvement with the PDs, I never met one individual who would have been able to settle with Coir. The issues of the latter would find far greater creedance amongst the more right wing elements of FG/FF

mike65

As the PDs suggested taking "God" out of the constitution I reckon youse are right.