Should I tell the Gardai?

DirkVoodoo

Eggball wrote: »

I'm not entirely clear here, but you seem to be saying that there was a cycle lane but you didn't use it? If that's the case, you're on shaky ground - the Garda carriage office has been asked to rule on this in the past and have stated that it is illegal for a cyclist NOT to use a cycle lane where one is provided. Like most rules, cyclists generally ignore this, since they don't carry licence plates and can get away with most things. However, if you identify yourself to the cops, they might get funny about it. They're pretty sanctimonious and have the weird idea that he who comes to equity must do so with clean hands.

Eh, if you knew the cycle lane in question you would know that:

(a) it passes along some heavily shaded paths due to poor planning. The street lights can't get through the densely populated trees, so riding on it with standard "commuter" lights is useless. Obviously this only matters at night

(b) the cycle lane moves back onto the path after that girl's school on the left. There are two dangerous entrances to estates or apartments that are effectively blind. I'm not joking, even slowing down you cannot see until you are crossing at 90 degrees and relying on motorists being considerate and realising they must stop before crossing the cycle path to check all is clear.

(c) The bus lane is one of the widest I know of, A bus can overtake a cyclist safely without even having to cross the white line.

I always use the bus lane there and have yet to have a problem, the cycle facilities along this stretch are a joke and I'm sorry that the OP was the victim of a nasty driver, so far I have found taxis and buses quite ok with me cycling in it.

Bunnyhopper

Eggball wrote: »

Like most rules, cyclists generally ignore this, since they don't carry licence plates and can get away with most things.

I think that's a facile, insulting generalization about cyclists.

Doctor Bob

Eggball wrote: »

I'm not entirely clear here, but you seem to be saying that there was a cycle lane but you didn't use it? If that's the case, you're on shaky ground - the Garda carriage office has been asked to rule on this in the past and have stated that it is illegal for a cyclist NOT to use a cycle lane where one is provided. Like most rules, cyclists generally ignore this, since they don't carry licence plates and can get away with most things. However, if you identify yourself to the cops, they might get funny about it. They're pretty sanctimonious and have the weird idea that he who comes to equity must do so with clean hands.

To be clear, the legality or otherwise of the OP's actions is irrelevant in this case. As I mentioned above, as Dónal reiterated, and as borne out by examination of the legislation, there are never grounds for any road user to intimidate or terrorise any other road user. Anyone who thinks that such behaviour is justifiable should not be on the road. The End.

Regarding the legality of non-compliance with the 'mandatory use' provision (a separate matter from the OP's initial grievance), I would argue that the excerpt of the Roads Act posted above provides legitimate grounds for not using sub-standard facilities. And when I say 'sub-standard', I don't mean just that they're not A1, I mean they're positively dangerous in places.

As for your point about the Guards, I have been pulled over by them on the N11 (heading towards town, just beside Blake's) for not using the lane, and I stated my case as any citizen is entitled to do- which was that the lane was dangerous to use and it was safer for me to be in the bus lane. (I stopped short of accusing them of speeding in the bus lane, which they were, and which is why, I suspect, my behaviour bothered them.) They then informed me that the lane was 'obligatory', to which I responded "Actually, no, it's mandatory." (Yes, I was being deliberately provocative.) At that point, one Guard lost it and demanded ID, which I willingly gave, and he told me I'd be hearing from them shortly. That was over two years ago...

Again, for balance, I should mention that I have had positive experiences with other Guards too, and I would never tar them all with the same brush. Tarring with the same brush- that's what car drivers do to cyclists.

Diarmuid

Eggball wrote: »

the Garda carriage office has been asked to rule on this in the past and have stated that it is illegal for a cyclist NOT to use a cycle lane where one is provided. .

um? I though the Gardas enforced the law not create the law?

Borneo Fnctn

Doctor Bob wrote: »

Tarring with the same brush- that's what car drivers do to cyclists.

Yeah, every one of them.

blorg

tomasrojo wrote: »

I have to say that bar one or two incidents, I find Dublin Bus drivers are at least ok, and sometimes very courteous. I often get an appreciative wave when I've obviously stopped to let them through a junction or narrow road. The intimidation I saw in Drumcondra that I mention above was by private coaches.

99.9%+ of them are perfectly courteous considerate road users. Unfortunately there is a small minority who are literally homicidal maniacs. I have been cycling for well over a decade now and generally have no trouble with any Dublin Bus driver... as others have suggested private coaches are more likely to cut you up, perform dangerous manoeuvres etc.

However the two incidences where a bus driver DELIBERATELY pulled into me to "teach me a lesson" for not using the unusable cycle track it was a Dublin Bus driver on the N11. When private coaches do something dangerous, you get the sense they are just not paying attention or just don't care, by contrast these two DB incidents (years ago now) were very deliberate.

That is two incidents in over 10 years in which I have had thousands upon thousands of courteous interactions with DB drivers, every day for over 10 years.

One of them, the more egregious one, he was out of service which probably emboldened him- technically I believe he is not meant to be in the bus lane himself in this situation, they are only for buses IN service. Overtakes very close and then edges into me before the bus is past- had to jam on the brakes to get behind him or I would have been knocked off.

The second one I was livid and boarded the bus with my bike at the next stop which I felt weakened my position on it somewhat, he threatened to call the gardai himself. I had him stopped for 5 minutes arguing with him. Obviously the commuters on the bus were none too happy with this.

To be honest though it was enough to stop me using the N11 entirely and I now go through Goatstown-Clonskeagh instead. So the intimidation worked on me at least. The drivers that do this should be in prison, never mind losing their jobs.

happy_acid_face

I have been getting the bus up that road for last 6 months in and out of work. I don't know what it is but from Donnybrook up as far as Stillorgan some bus drivers seem to become ridiculously reckless. My heart has been in my throat at some of the close shaves I have seen.

Most recently, I was travelling into work going south down the Stillorgan Road, just past the Raddison. We passed the turn where Mount Merrion Ave meets the Stillorgan Road stopping at the bus stop which is just after the turn. As a woman was about to get on, another bus rear ended us. The bang was so hard that it nearly threw me out of my seat. Both the front of the other bus and the back of our bus were totalled. There was broken glass everywhere and a lot of people rubbing their necks and backs. I don't know if the driver behind just zoned out or if he had sped up to try and catch the lights. He did look like it had given him some shock though.

The thing that stressed me the most though was that every day I stare out the window at the various people on their bikes trying to catch the makes, gear, etc. I must pass about 15 or so along that stretch alone. Half the time there would be a cyclist right behind the bus as it pulls off from the lights. Luckily enough, that was a day with no one behind us. If there had of been, the cyclist wouldn't have had a chance.

Blowfish

L'Enfer du Nord wrote: »

Agree, I've never been cut-off or anything, but on a number of occassions I've got abuse from Bus drivers on the Stillorgan Dualer for not using the so-called cycle lane. Problem is they're right by law I should be using it AFAIK. In this case the law is an ass. If only the Green Party were in power I'm sure they'd do some thing about this nonsense:rolleyes:.

I've had exactly the same only about 2 weeks ago. I was heading south on the N11, avoiding the crap surface on one part of the cycle lane, when I had a bus driver drive up behind me and lean on his horn for a while. As I completely ignored this, he then drove up beside me, slowed down and opened the door, then starting yelling and cursing at me to 'use the f*ing cycle lane'.

The drivers that are like that are very much in the minority, most are fine and are courteous (e.g.will quite happily wait for you if you start to overtake them when they want to move out), but encountering the few aggresive idiots there are definitely leaves a sour taste.

Doctor Bob

Doctor Bob wrote: »

Tarring with the same brush- that's what car drivers do to cyclists.

jackpalance wrote: »

Yeah, every one of them.

Tongue firmly in cheek, old chap! (Perhaps it could have used a smiley.;))

(And maybe a bit of a dig at Eggball's generalisation about cyclists.)

Jumpy

Does anyone notice the N11 pattern here?

It could simply be the same driver. Get him fired and it should settle a bit.

stop

Jumpy wrote: »

Does anyone notice the N11 pattern here?

It could simply be the same driver. Get him fired and it should settle a bit.

N11 is probably one of the busiest bus corridor in the country.
More buses = more incidents.

aphex™

stop wrote: »

N11 is probably one of the busiest bus corridor in the country.
More buses = more incidents.

Nah it's a wide road, no need for busses to barge you into the curb. As I said earlier it happened to a fella I work with- he described it in detail and it was almost the same as the Op's incident. It's a conscious and deliberate act done buy one or more bus drivers and it needs to be stopped.

tomasrojo

It's been happening on the N11 since the mid- to late 90s. I think it's because there's "a perfectly good cycle lane". (Ahem.)

blorg

+1, both times it happened to me the other two lanes were completely empty and there was absolutely no need, it was done deliberately. Caught the driver the second time and he confirmed he had done it deliberately to "teach me a lesson" about using the cycle lane.

Lumen

In the age of the phone camera we really ought to be able to produce a "rogues gallery" of homicidal bus drivers.

Eggball

Doctor Bob wrote: »

For balance, I should mention that I've had many positive encounters with bus drivers, and I find that a bit of courtesy and patience goes a long way (this isn't a criticism of anyone in this thread, btw, but I do see some terrible cycling near buses).

Not just near buses. Unfortunately, most cyclists are nasty and malicious people, quite at variance with the image of the happy hippie dropping out of the rat race. It's been my experience that most of them are resentful individuals who are quite prepared to deliberately engineer incidents with other traffic and 'dare' them to come close. Most of this attitude could be removed by the simple expedient of making them carry identifying number plates. With CCTV all over the place, the incidents of breaking traffic lights, riding on the footpath, going the wrong way down one way streets and the rest would disappear overnight. Nobody's asking for anything from cyclists except to obey the rules that everybody else has to. I'd bet a small amount of money that the OP had spent most of his ride up to the point of engagement with the bus breaking every rule in the code, and probably doing the same afterward. To most cyclists, learning the rules is something you do so you know when the other guy is in the wrong. Imagine yourself getting washed on a wet Monday morning as you wait for the bus only to see it approaching at two miles an hour up a tight bus lane because some selfish cyclist refuses to move out of the way of it and the eighty passengers it is carrying. I've lost count of the number of times I've wanted to punch some self-entitled cyclist engaged in this childishness and if I feel that way as a passanger, I can only guess what the driver is feeling. I'm afraid I have no sympathy for the OP, regardless of the outrage expressed on his behalf here.

alfalad

Eggball wrote: »

Not just near buses. Unfortunately, most cyclists are nasty and malicious people, quite at variance with the image of the happy hippie dropping out of the rat race. It's been my experience that most of them are resentful individuals who are quite prepared to deliberately engineer incidents with other traffic and 'dare' them to come close. Most of this attitude could be removed by the simple expedient of making them carry identifying number plates. With CCTV all over the place, the incidents of breaking traffic lights, riding on the footpath, going the wrong way down one way streets and the rest would disappear overnight. Nobody's asking for anything from cyclists except to obey the rules that everybody else has to. I'd bet a small amount of money that the OP had spent most of his ride up to the point of engagement with the bus breaking every rule in the code, and probably doing the same afterward. To most cyclists, learning the rules is something you do so you know when the other guy is in the wrong. Imagine yourself getting washed on a wet Monday morning as you wait for the bus only to see it approaching at two miles an hour up a tight bus lane because some selfish cyclist refuses to move out of the way of it and the eighty passengers it is carrying. I've lost count of the number of times I've wanted to punch some self-entitled cyclist engaged in this childishness and if I feel that way as a passanger, I can only guess what the driver is feeling. I'm afraid I have no sympathy for the OP, regardless of the outrage expressed on his behalf here.

Do you think in rush hour the bus is quicker than the bike?? Try it some time and you can thank me for the time you save!

As for the rest of the post it.........I won't even bother!

CheGuedara

Just took a look at the newspapers, my watch, the sky news interweb and it is definitely NOT Friday. I repeat NOT Friday. At ease people, if you dont flinch it cant see you

Lumen

Eggball wrote: »

Unfortunately, most cyclists are nasty and malicious people, quite at variance with the image of the happy hippie dropping out of the rat race....I've lost count of the number of times I've wanted to punch some self-entitled cyclist

Your frustration is borne out of the fact that you're even lower in the commuting food chain than the cyclists.

Everyone knows that buses are for geriatrics and the unemployed. I bet your trousers smell of stale urine and there's a Werthers Originals wrapper stuck to the sole of your shoe.

Bunnyhopper

Did someone give Tim Allen a bus pass??

ednwireland

Eggball wrote: »

Most of this attitude could be removed by the simple expedient of making them carry identifying number plates.

Cos that stops all the registered vehicle drivers doing stupid things !

you really believe that ?

markpb

Eggball wrote: »

Most of this attitude could be removed by the simple expedient of making them carry identifying number plates. With CCTV all over the place, the incidents of breaking traffic lights, riding on the footpath, going the wrong way down one way streets and the rest would disappear overnight. Nobody's asking for anything from cyclists except to obey the rules that everybody else has to.

That's perfectly fair.

Imagine yourself getting washed on a wet Monday morning as you wait for the bus only to see it approaching at two miles an hour up a tight bus lane because some selfish cyclist refuses to move out of the way of it and the eighty passengers it is carrying.

If you see that happening, it's because of poor cycle facilities. Have you seen buses being held up by cyclists in Amsterdam or Copenhagen? No, because the cycle lane facilities are a) present and b) good enough to use. Ireland loses on both those counts.

I can only guess what the driver is feeling. I'm afraid I have no sympathy for the OP, regardless of the outrage expressed on his behalf here.

The driver is feeling nothing because they get stuck in traffic all day long. One more delay won't make any difference.

Eggball

ednwireland wrote: »

Cos that stops all the registered vehicle drivers doing stupid things !

you really believe that ?

No, but what would happen if all motorised vehicles were allowed to tool around with no licence plate or identifying marks? You think it's bad now, it'd be like a stock car rally circuit otherwise. What keeps motorists (more or less) in line is a general awareness that they can be identified; cyclists have no such worries. They can do what they like and therefore generally do.

w123

First of all these incidents with the buses are not isolated or new - I've been cycling in Dublin for over 20 years now and it's been like this forever. Not all bus drivers, but hardly a week would go by without having a story from the commute to tell over the dinner. This has always puzzled me it's not as if Dublin Bus have any kind of a timetable that has ever been adhered to.

And now to this...

Eggball wrote: »

Not just near buses. Unfortunately, most cyclists are nasty and malicious people, quite at variance with the image of the happy hippie dropping out of the rat race. It's been my experience that most of them are resentful individuals who are quite prepared to deliberately engineer incidents with other traffic and 'dare' them to come close. Most of this attitude could be removed by the simple expedient of making them carry identifying number plates. With CCTV all over the place, the incidents of breaking traffic lights, riding on the footpath, going the wrong way down one way streets and the rest would disappear overnight. Nobody's asking for anything from cyclists except to obey the rules that everybody else has to. I'd bet a small amount of money that the OP had spent most of his ride up to the point of engagement with the bus breaking every rule in the code, and probably doing the same afterward. To most cyclists, learning the rules is something you do so you know when the other guy is in the wrong. Imagine yourself getting washed on a wet Monday morning as you wait for the bus only to see it approaching at two miles an hour up a tight bus lane because some selfish cyclist refuses to move out of the way of it and the eighty passengers it is carrying. I've lost count of the number of times I've wanted to punch some self-entitled cyclist engaged in this childishness and if I feel that way as a passanger, I can only guess what the driver is feeling. I'm afraid I have no sympathy for the OP, regardless of the outrage expressed on his behalf here.

I admit that on the bike I feel that I am a cross between pedestrian and a car (because I am - in traffic all of the speeds of all other vehicles - with none of the protection) , I do break rules, I cycle down one way streets the wrong way, I break lights, I cycle on the footpath slowly, the difference between a cyclist doing these things and a motorist doing them is that a cyclist is putting themselves in danger if they break the rules, and so, when breaking them must ensure that they mitigate against all risk - which is to say I will break a red light if nothing is coming - I will go down a one way street or on a footpath ready to dismount or pull in etc.

I am not a nasty or malicious person, however I do adopt an extremely aggresive riding style for my own protection and would advocate the same for any right thinking cyclist, there is nothing to protect us on the road other than our wits.

seamus

Eggball wrote: »

No, but what would happen if all motorised vehicles were allowed to tool around with no licence plate or identifying marks? You think it's bad now, it'd be like a stock car rally circuit otherwise. What keeps motorists (more or less) in line is a general awareness that they can be identified; cyclists have no such worries. They can do what they like and therefore generally do.

Nonsense. What keeps drivers in line is that 90% of people want to do the right thing and the other 10% don't want to get caught.

The reason so many cyclists break the law is because the Irish have an attitude that it's OK, the Gardai even enforce this attitude by not enforcing the laws where it's at the point where most people don't see any "wrong" in breaking the lights on a pushbike. Most drivers who bitch about bikes breaking the lights would, if placed on a bicycle, break the lights themselves "because everyone else is doing it".

Everyone doing it = Mass acceptance
Nobody doing it = Mass abhorrence

"Right" and "Wrong" are relative terms determined by how many of the population engage in the activity themselves.

Jip

Eggball wrote: »

I'd bet a small amount of money that the OP had spent most of his ride up to the point of engagement with the bus breaking every rule in the code, and probably doing the same afterward.

If you're so sure of yourself why not bet a large amount of money !

And how dare you compare me to a stinky hippy ! I live in a semi with lots of mod cons, have two cars in the house and don't have a compost bin, I'd probably make a hippy cry in fact !

alfalad

Eggball wrote: »

No, but what would happen if all motorised vehicles were allowed to tool around with no licence plate or identifying marks? You think it's bad now, it'd be like a stock car rally circuit otherwise. What keeps motorists (more or less) in line is a general awareness that they can be identified; cyclists have no such worries. They can do what they like and therefore generally do.

Eggball, if you take a scan through many previous threads on traffic, rules of the road etc on this forum you will see that most people here are sensible cyclists, they take their cycling seriously and they take their safety even more seriously. The large majority on here obey the rules of the road including red lights, signalling properly at junctions etc.

I have never held up a bus for any length of time it is always the other way round as they stop at a bus stop. Do I go on a rant, no when and if the oppurtunity is there i safely move out and round the bus.

You are saying things like ;

Eggball wrote: »

They can do what they like and therefore generally do.

No a lot of cyclists and most on here do obey the rules of the road but are tarred with the brush as the odd idiot who breaks the rules.

Eggball wrote: »

most cyclists are nasty and malicious people.

I for one am not, and I have met many people on here and they are all very nice people and when out on group cycles in Wicklow etc do their best not to hold up traffic etc.

Eggball wrote: »

most of them are resentful individuals who are quite prepared to deliberately engineer incidents with other traffic and 'dare' them to come close.

Most cyclists and those who have been cycling for any amount of time have a very healthy respect for the couple of tonne of metal that is beside them on the road, again a quick look down the pages of this forum will show you many people who have hit by cars, buses, taxi's etc.

Eggball wrote: »

I'd bet a small amount of money that the OP had spent most of his ride up to the point of engagement with the bus breaking every rule in the code, and probably doing the same afterward.

You have no idea how the cyclist conducts himself on the road and therefore are talking utter nonsense.

There are plenty of idot drivers out there as well and cause the cyclist may hold them up for 10 seconds is hardly reason to use the car to bully them off the road!

polyfusion

w123 wrote: »

....I do break rules, I cycle down one way streets the wrong way, I break lights, I cycle on the footpath slowly, the difference between a cyclist doing these things and a motorist doing them is that a cyclist is putting themselves in danger if they break the rules, and so, when breaking them must ensure that they mitigate against all risk - which is to say I will break a red light if nothing is coming - I will go down a one way street or on a footpath ready to dismount or pull in etc.

That sounds very selfish. I know if I hit a cyclist (and I'm a cyclist myself) that was breaking the rules of the road, even if I was fully in the right, I think I would be devastated about it, regardless of how minor the damage or injuries were.

I don't think a lot of cyclists realise how vunerable they are - someone posted a link to a page with a short clip from CCTV of a person on a scooter getting hit from behind by a truck, and then falling under the wheels. Imagine filling a balloon with water, and dropping it from a few feet - I think if everyone was to see this clip they would seriously reconsider their behaviour on the road, whether cyclist or motorist.

w123

polyfusion wrote: »

That sounds very selfish. I know if I hit a cyclist (and I'm a cyclist myself) that was breaking the rules of the road, even if I was fully in the right, I think I would be devastated about it, regardless of how minor the damage or injuries were.

I don't think a lot of cyclists realise how vunerable they are - someone posted a link to a page with a short clip from CCTV of a person on a scooter getting hit from behind by a truck, and then falling under the wheels. Imagine filling a balloon with water, and dropping it from a few feet - I think if everyone was to see this clip they would seriously reconsider their behaviour on the road, whether cyclist or motorist.

I have three kids, and I don't want them to grow up without a father, so if I'm being honest - I only do these things if there is absolutely no risk to me - Mainly the lights I break would be ped lights after the ped has crossed, if I ever break lights at a junction, It would be absolutely clear - the point that I'm trying to make is that there are really two sets of rules of the road one for Motorised vehicles and one for Pedestrians, the cyclist ( in my view) lies somewhere in between. And as long as they are being considerate and don't have a death wish should be alowed to be both a road user and a ped.

It's worked for me so far thousands of miles under my belt and no accidents.

Remember - It's nice to be nice.

blorg

+1 polyfusion, and as for @Eggball, I don't quite see what a cyclist may or may not have done before the bus came along has any relevance whatsoever to the actions of the bus driver.

As far as I can make out, your argument is:

- Some (most?) cyclists sometimes break the rules of the road
- Therefore, it is OK for a bus driver to deliberately endanger the life of any cyclist they come across

I think that is missing a step somewhere.

DirkVoodoo

Eggball, stereotyping won't get you anywhere. Give clear examples instead of generalizations and people might listen.

The OP didn't come on here saying "all bus drivers are morons and foreigners who get a kick out of trying to mow down cyclists and watching people running for the doors in the morning before closing them at the last second and pulling away".

If you have any specific encounters with malicious cyclists please share. If, however, you are simply a bitter little man with a bus pass, move on.

hynesie

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

you are simply a bitter little man who drives a bus, move on.

Fixed that for you

Jip

hynesie wrote: »

Fixed that for you

Aha ! Well done Detective Hynesie. Now we fully see the mentality of some of the bus drivers out there, they have some weird form of chip on their shoudler, thinks we're all hippies and out to get them and cause them consternation on the road and therefore feel they need to teach us a lesson by either running us off the road or cause some other damage, as he pointed out on his original post where he pretended to be a regular passenger.

I've lost count of the number of times I've wanted to punch some self-entitled cyclist engaged in this childishness

Do we really want someone with these values driving a bus ?

DBCyc

kincsem wrote: »

I sent e-mails to info@dublinbus.ie and road_safety@garda.ie linked to this thread.

hynesie wrote: »

Fixed that for you

I do hope that Dublin Bus and the Gardai are reading this thread

DirkVoodoo

Yeah, I would hate to think airline pilots becoming enraged like this. Damn light aircraft, taking up our airways!

I never understand angry bus drivers. You are already at work, you are being paid to be stuck in traffic and you get to use the bus lanes. Why take out whatever frustrations you have on the cyclist who is just trying to get to work (no, we're not all hippies!) and doesn't want to end up in a pile for using some dangerous and laughable cycling track when the bus lane is big enough for the both of us?

I managed to clip my foot off my front mudguard when setting off from the lights at White's cross (stupid raceblade front mudguard and a busy intersection). I fell sideways, still in the cycle lane but the bus driver saw me and waited for me to get up even though I'm sure he wouldn't have rolled over me and his passengers didn't thank him for it. We should have more like him.

Hail to the bus driver, bus driver man (or woman).

tomasrojo

@Eggball, this a terrible attitude for a driver to have. I find most of your colleagues to be courteous and professional, and I have great time for Dublin Bus. But you have shamed yourself. These lurid, prejudicial pronouncements are not worthy of a professional of any kind, especially one charged with the safety of so many people.

Johnnio13

Go to the Gardai!!

I had the same problem with Dublin Bus for years. They would pull in front of me at the Radisson or at Galloping Green to let off passengers knowing they had just overtaken me.
But coming back down by the Grange (when it used to be Esso headquarters) there was construction equipment on the path so I was on the road - freewheeling 'cause of the hill and a Corduff coach (Mayo) with a ginger driver swerved in front of me and braked and then sped up. At the lights at the turn off for Bondi Club I could see in the mirror himself and his "passenger" were having a good laugh to themselves. I never managed to catch up to the door.
But on calling the company the secretary told me she would get the manager to call me. I tried 3 times and never heard back.
Sorry I didn't go to the gardai.

Jumpy

hynesie wrote: »

Fixed that for you

Its amazing what you can find out from the internet.

Bus Drivers in their mid forties shouldnt post inflammatory comments in a cycling forum when everyone is riled up about potentially homicidial actions by said drivers. People might be inclined to search more.


In saying that though. I suspect there is more than one Eggball around the place as all the other references I have found outside boards are written by someone with a decent grasp of English. Not at all like our new Eggball here.


Can we keep him?

blorg

That post from Eggball on management in Dublin Bus is actually quite well written and argued, would like to see more of that in his postings over here... Note that most posters who have had problems with a small minority of drivers specifically point that most bus drivers are perfectly courteous- more so indeed than the average driver. But it has to be underlined that there is a small minority who are happy to use a 15 ton vehicle as a weapon to deliberately drive extremely dangerously to intimidate a guy on a bike who has no protection whatsoever. How would you feel if you actually knocked one off and killed them? Would you shrug, and say, well not my fault they should have been using the cycle lane.

Chips Lovell

Eggball wrote: »

I'm not entirely clear here, but you seem to be saying that there was a cycle lane but you didn't use it? If that's the case, you're on shaky ground - the Garda carriage office has been asked to rule on this in the past and have stated that it is illegal for a cyclist NOT to use a cycle lane where one is provided.

Firstly, the Garda carriage office has nothing to do this, it was written into the law. Secondly, the government announced earlier this year that it is reversing that law. By it's own admission, they are ‘‘often of a poor standard’’ and ‘‘poorly maintained’’ and in many cases dangerous. Thirdly, even before the abolition of mandatory use, most off-road cycle lanes were not actually cycle lanes under law. But finally, as several others have pointed out, just because you think someone is breaking the law, does not give you licence to endanger their life.

Lumen wrote: »

In the age of the phone camera we really ought to be able to produce a "rogues gallery" of homicidal bus drivers.

There's probably potential legal difficulties with this.

Eggball wrote: »

It's been my experience that most of them are resentful individuals who are quite prepared to deliberately engineer incidents with other traffic and 'dare' them to come close.

I'm deeply impressed with your ability to divine people's motivations from the cab of a bus. So instead of trying to get from A to B, most cyclists are simply out for one big game of chicken, is that it?

w123 wrote: »

I do break rules, I cycle down one way streets the wrong way, I break lights, I cycle on the footpath slowly, the difference between a cyclist doing these things and a motorist doing them is that a cyclist is putting themselves in danger if they break the rules, and so, when breaking them must ensure that they mitigate against all risk - which is to say I will break a red light if nothing is coming - I will go down a one way street or on a footpath ready to dismount or pull in etc.

I am not a nasty or malicious person, however I do adopt an extremely aggresive riding style for my own protection and would advocate the same for any right thinking cyclist, there is nothing to protect us on the road other than our wits.

I despair of this attitude and in my opinion, its cyclists like you that give the rest of us a bad name.

Lumen

el tonto wrote: »

There's probably potential legal difficulties with this.

AFAIK there is no law against taking pictures of people in a public place.

The "rogues" bit might be a bit dodgy though.

Lumen

el tonto wrote: »

I despair of this attitude and in my opinion, its cyclists like you that give the rest of us a bad name.

In fairness you've your parents to blame for that.

Chips Lovell

Lumen wrote: »

The "rogues" bit might be a bit dodgy though.

Exactly. It's not the pictures themselves, but the implication attached to them.

Rob_l

Lumen wrote: »

AFAIK there is no law against taking pictures of people in a public place.

The "rogues" bit might be a bit dodgy though.

Your right there is no law against taking pictures in a public place.

The taking pictures of the drivers, could be questionable mainly because you might have to endanger yoruself/others to get the picture ie. cycling along with a camera in one hand( I think the law regarding cycling is you have to have two hands on the bar unless indicating a turn ).

tomasrojo

Jumpy wrote: »

Bus Drivers in their mid forties shouldnt post inflammatory comments in a cycling forum [...]

I think his age is probably irrelevant (except maybe that he should know better).

Lumen

Rob_l wrote: »

The taking pictures of the drivers, could be questionable mainly because you might have to endanger yoruself/others to get the picture ie. cycling along with a camera in one hand( I think the law regarding cycling is you have to have two hands on the bar unless indicating a turn ).

There are reports in this thread of cyclists boarding buses or stopping to be shouted at.

I suggest the photography option as a more sensitive alternative to the Glasgow Handshake, which might render ones magic hat inoperable in a way not covered by the manufacturers crash replacement policy.

Jumpy

tomasrojo wrote: »

I think his age is probably irrelevant (except maybe that he should know better).

It was intended to advise that a small bit of searching can find details not specified by him already.

Jumpy

Lumen wrote: »

There are reports in this thread of cyclists boarding buses or stopping to be shouted at.

I suggest the photography option as a more sensitive alternative to the Glasgow Handshake, which might render ones magic hat inoperable in a way not covered by the manufacturers crash replacement policy.

It will only take one helmet cam to get the driver in the press.

tomasrojo

Jumpy wrote: »

It was intended to advise that a small bit of searching can find details not specified by him already.

Ah, ok.

Sniipe

Eggball wrote: »

...Rant...

I love the generalisations. There are so many. You are so angry with cyclists. You know cyclists come from a variety of backgrounds; students, guards, doctors, software engineers (I'm sure there are a good few of them here), couriers and perhaps even some bus drivers. Then on top of that there will be a few that break the law and they will tarnish it for the rest of us.

Cycling perhaps a 10k journey daily in Dublin city you would have to have a thick neck. You want to get to work as pleasantly as possible and then you have to put up with some ignorant bus drivers/drivers/others. If I was starting off I might try and pull in for the first few but I would learn pretty quickly if I was hard done by. I'm sure its the same for bus drivers. You have a few bad experiences with us and then in your mind we are all alike. I guess it becomes a vicious circle with some bus drivers and cyclists.

You as a bus driver must always take the higher ground. You must never obstruct us or interfere with our journey, no matter how bad we become. After all we have no protection (a helmet won't do much good over a bus).

The roads everywhere aren't good enough for the cyclist. The laws are vague at best when it comes to the cyclist. The govenment are only beginning to cop on when it comes to cycling (ie the CTW scheme, healthier living, less carbon, etc...).

For the bus driver behind the cyclist and passing them out only to cut them off at a corner or at the next bus stop; to that I say bad form, it really doesn't make sense. Its a bad habit and pretty stupid. I hope you as a bus driver can understand that there is very little advantage in doing this. Sure you can over take, but only do so when its safe.

Its difficult to apprehend a cyclist if they are breaking the law, but if they are consistantly doing it on the same route then I'm sure dublin bus (manager/other) or whoever can come and inspect the route. Perhaps have a chat with the offending cyclist. If that doesn't work take it to the next level.

I guess the thread has taken a bit of a tangent from the initial question - but eggball is an interesting new voice from a different perspective. I hope we can communicate more with him and see if between us we can change habits/impressions. It would be nice to get more feedback/opinions from drivers.

Any word from the email that was sent the other day?