So how much do you spend on Santa?

Cookie Jar

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I am reading this interesting thread as somone who is going to a father this november :-)

I hate spoilt kids. My stradegy will be to push the kids to imaginative, educational presents. Also, I'd like to bring them up with a broad world view.
So if they ask me for something like an IPod or fancy pair of runners, I like to ask them to give me a presentation on how kids their age in various countries of the world live. This would be hoping to initiate a rational discussion where their expectations reasonable i.e. get them to think a bit? I'd also challenge them to give a percentage of their present entitlement to charity.

As your all parents what do you think?

What recked my head growing up was I was just told a blunt NO rather than it reasoned out. I think I would have accepted no if it was well reasoned.

Your thoughts...

At the start I said I wouldnt spoil my daughter. Hard not to sometimes.
If I'm buying her something I usually buy a book or a simple jigsaw (the ones you fit shapes in) as she is only 20months.
But while playin in her cousins she discovered the doll and pram. I never wanted her to play with them really.
But I gave in. She is delighted with her doll and pram.

But books are the way to go. My lil girl loves them.

littlebug

lol I have visions of baby TR 2 years old with his powerpoint presentation on Third World Poverty

To an extent I think you're right. I'd spend any amount of money on books and requests for books are always granted. I would have always tried to put an emphasis on educational toys but really when all my daughter wanted from santa was that fluffy pink unicorn ...:o I do try to balance things though. As I said earlier they get a santa present and a mammy and daddy present so if the santa present is a fluffy pink unicorn the other present will be something more brain engaging. They always get some books... but that's a year round thing anyway.

Instilling a sense of how other kids live is difficult until they reach a certain age. Understanding how other people live will not stop them wanting something but I don't think it's any harm to instil a sense of charity as long as it's not associated with guilt. So far I think I've been reasonably successful with the "just because other people have it doesn't mean we have to get it" idea. Different families have different rules and different ways of doing things. I also make a point of emphasising the things from our family that make them luckier than others so that they don't have a feeling of being deprived!

Tim Robbins

littlebug wrote: »

I also make a point of emphasising the things from our family that make them luckier than others so that they don't have a feeling of being deprived!

I think pointing out how little kids in Africa have should make them realise they are not deprived.

Cookie Jar

littlebug wrote: »

Instilling a sense of how other kids live is difficult until they reach a certain age. Understanding how other people live will not stop them wanting something but I don't think it's any harm to instil a sense of charity as long as it's not associated with guilt.

Just on this point, last year we received so many presents we gave a couple to charity shop.
Then I thought it would be a good idea if every year one present should be picked by the child to be given to the charity shop.
I will be doing it until daughter is old enough to decide anyways.

ebmma

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I think pointing out how little kids in Africa have should make them realise they are not deprived.

I think this is too far removed. It is hard to make grown ups think about African kids.
It needs to be something closer to home, something they can see as actually happening.

Maybe very sick kids in Ireland or homeless kids.

littlebug

I think the samaritans purse shoe box appeal is actually a pretty good way of getting them thinking about poverty too (as long as the child is involved in filling the box) and doing something about it. It gets us talking and when they see the things that are going in to the box ie not just toys but toothbrushes and hats etc they get some sort of understanding that it's not just about the child not getting toys at Christmas and because the box is aimed at a child their own age and gender there's some level of identification going on.

Tim Robbins

ebmma wrote: »

I think this is too far removed. It is hard to make grown ups think about African kids.
It needs to be something closer to home, something they can see as actually happening.

Maybe very sick kids in Ireland or homeless kids.

I disagree. It should be both. Do we want the next generation to be selfish or have a very narrow world view?

I think we have some responsibility here.

I am not a religious person but I thought the idea of a Trocaire Box was brilliant.

ebmma

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I disagree. It should be both. Do we want the next generation to be selfish or have a very narrow world view?

I think we have some responsibility here.

I am not a religious person but I thought the idea of a Trocaire Box was brilliant.

It is too far removed for a young child, imo. I would start closer to home and then extend it to Africa and other places. Maybe over 4 when they are more interested in different countries and cultures it'll make more sense to them.

Actually this reminds of that book, "Pollyanna". There's a bit where she meets this local boy in need of help and goes to the local church group to ask for it and they tell her they only help African kids. Poor girl gets very confused they don't want to help her little friend who is right here I don't remember the details, but I'm sure you get what I mean

Wantobe

I think sometimes people who don't have children have an idealistic view of how they will raise them or unrealistic expectations of how much a child will understand at young ages.

I have a three year old and a five year old. I could probably just about explain to the five year old that there are children in the world who live in poverty etc etc. I'm not sure how much she would understand it and I'm not sure how it would affect her. My instinct would be to shield her from the worse aspects of life until she is older. For example she understands that people die, sadly because of the death of someone very close to her, and it is something that pre-occupies her, she worries about it. I've told her he is in heaven now but she wants to know why he can't come down to see her or why she can't talk to him on the phone and she worries that maybe I'll go to heaven and if I do, I won't be able to come back.

She's a worrier, she has a big heart- I'm not sure information about starving children would be suitable. There is enough hardship in life as one gets older, surely? I'd prefer her childhood to be worry free, or at least as much as I can make it.

Anyway, sorry for being so off-topic!

Tim Robbins

Wantobe wrote: »

I think sometimes people who don't have children have an idealistic view of how they will raise them or unrealistic expectations of how much a child will understand at young ages.

I have a three year old and a five year old. I could probably just about explain to the five year old that there are children in the world who live in poverty etc etc. I'm not sure how much she would understand it and I'm not sure how it would affect her. My instinct would be to shield her from the worse aspects of life until she is older. For example she understands that people die, sadly because of the death of someone very close to her, and it is something that pre-occupies her, she worries about it. I've told her he is in heaven now but she wants to know why he can't come down to see her or why she can't talk to him on the phone and she worries that maybe I'll go to heaven and if I do, I won't be able to come back.

She's a worrier, she has a big heart- I'm not sure information about starving children would be suitable. There is enough hardship in life as one gets older, surely? I'd prefer her childhood to be worry free, or at least as much as I can make it.

Anyway, sorry for being so off-topic!

Some good points Wantobe. There's a big difference between parenting in the real world and the idealistic world. I accept that.

I think it's about getting the balance right. You don't want to smother a child in the misery of the world but you should be able to instill a sense of ethics at the sametime.

That would mean sometimes not taking the easy option, and stuffing a kid with toys but actually making them think. Obviously 3 / 5 is too young for this but I think as they progress a bit towards teenage years it's a conversation / discussion worth having.

There's a brilliant film about Charles Darwin in the Cinema right now. It deals with him not being able to hide from the truth his genuis had discoverd. Nature is a cruel place. There's a scene in it where he shows his children a fox eating a rabbit teaching them about how nature works. It's true but when / how do you explain this things isn't easy.

Khannie

Tim Robbins wrote: »

So if they ask me for something like an IPod or fancy pair of runners, I like to ask them to give me a presentation on how kids their age in various countries of the world live. This would be hoping to initiate a rational discussion where their expectations reasonable i.e. get them to think a bit? I'd also challenge them to give a percentage of their present entitlement to charity.

Seriously? Would you really do that?

If the answer is yes: did you think about the kids in Africa when you bought your TV or your last holiday or whatever?

I'm not trying to pick a fight here. I just think that sometimes it's nice to get that iPod or whatever you've been dreaming about for the last 6 months without having to give a presentation on other children starving to death.

Tim Robbins wrote: »

What recked my head growing up was I was just told a blunt NO rather than it reasoned out. I think I would have accepted no if it was well reasoned.

My thoughts: You make your decisions based on lots of things that they shouldn't necessarily be subjected to, like how much money is in the bank, how upset you are about X,Y or Z on a particular day (and therefore don't want to go to the playground) and so on. Sometimes I'll give an explanation, but mostly I wont because it leads to the expectation of one and I don't always want to give it (for whatever reason).

Tim Robbins

Khannie wrote: »

Seriously? Would you really do that?

If the answer is yes: did you think about the kids in Africa when you bought your TV or your last holiday or whatever?

Yes. I set myself goals for how much I give, give it to the most effective charity, and give up time for volunteer work.

I haven't bought a new TV since 1997.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here. I just think that sometimes it's nice to get that iPod or whatever you've been dreaming about for the last 6 months without having to give a presentation on other children starving to death.

Of course it's nice to get the new iPod. But that doesn't mean it's right.

My thoughts: You make your decisions based on lots of things that they shouldn't necessarily be subjected to, like how much money is in the bank, how upset you are about X,Y or Z on a particular day (and therefore don't want to go to the playground) and so on. Sometimes I'll give an explanation, but mostly I wont because it leads to the expectation of one and I don't always want to give it (for whatever reason).

I think for younger years I wouldn't bombard them with reality. But I'd challenge them to use their imagination. So say they want something, I'd give them a goal like say "write me a song" or even "in return for helping your Mum".

Then when they were a bit older I'd challenge them a bit more. You want Nike runners, give me a presentation on the worker practises and how they run their sweat shops.

I think the consumerist philosophy (get the latest iPoD) is very very shallow intellectually, philosophically and it's also pretty poor for imagination and morals.

More importantly, I don't think it can provide genuine happiness. I can't stand the keeping up with the Jones malarky. There's something magical and far more beautiful about doing something that has stronger sense of morality or imagination.

I'd like to teach my kids that.

There's a very good book called "The Life you can Safe" it's not a parenting book per se but a very interesting read for any adult.
Make it to the end and you'll change your opinions, I guarentee you.

Khannie

Tim Robbins wrote: »

You want Nike runners, give me a presentation on the worker practises and how they run their sweat shops.

It's not possible to ethically purchase everything. You just can't be sure what the conditions were like for every single person who helped manufacture every single thing you buy. Where do you draw the line like? A presentation on hunger before dinner time? (rhetorical question)

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I think the consumerist philosophy (get the latest iPoD) is very very shallow intellectually, philosophically and it's also pretty poor for imagination and morals.

There's a consumerist philosophy now? I don't buy myself much. To be blunt I can't afford to. There are lots of cheap and cheerful ways to enjoy life and I make the most of them. Do I want a nice shiny 50 inch TV? You bet your ass I do. Is my happiness dependent on it? Of course not. Are my "imagination and morals" poor because I want a shiny 50 inch TV? Am I shallow intellectually and philosophically as you suggest? Don't be daft man.

Tim Robbins wrote: »

There's a very good book called "The Life you can Safe" it's not a parenting book per se but a very interesting read for any adult.
Make it to the end and you'll change your opinions, I guarentee you.

Look.....Your post come across (to me at least) as very superior and smug. Like you're looking down on me from your lofty moral heights. Well...my morals are pretty decent thanks very much. I make a sincere effort to purchase ethically. Am I gonna get my kid a game boy for Christmas if he asks for one though? Sure. He's a good kid. Do I think he needs to know how crap the world is while he's still enjoying the innocence of childhood? Nope.

eviltwin

I hate spoilt kids too and am very aware of the have and have nots in society..whatever about africa I think its more of an impact to see kids in your own neighbourhood and the differences between them.


As a parent I've always wanted my child to be more aware of whats out there. I grew up in poverty and it had a profound affect on me and the way I raise her but I can understand people from a comfortable background not even thinking about it when they have kids of their own

I do believe that a lot of the pressure to give the best gift isnt from the kids themselves who want to be like the rest of their peers..I think a lot of the time we parents compensate or try to for the lack of time we spend with our kids by showering them with crap

In my experience my daughter has always been as happy with the xmas kitty of 50 euros as she ever was with the more expensive stuff

I've a 13 year old .... I rarely spend less than €500 per year on Christmas. As kids get older, their requests get more specific, and they get more expensive, especially when they start asking for the electronics, such as Playstations, DSi, ipods, that kind of thing.

Kimono-Girl

our daughter is going to be 6 months this christmas and since its her first we are looking to splash out a bit, but by splash out we mean a nice christmas tree...dinner...decorations...christmas clothes for her and lots of photos so she can see it herself when she's older...

as for toys we are getting her stacking cups and blocks and maybe another toy for her age group! not exactly breaking the bank....


luckily for me my parents were seperated...as my dad raised my half sister totally different to me kind of like you were mentioning Tim.... what he did not realise and has come to realise now she is in her teens, is he was wrong....he wouldnt buy her barbie instead he got her cheaper alternatives like magazines and books, he tried teaching her all about the kids in the third world so she wouldnt spend the whole €5 on sweets and think of them instead, he tried the if you dont do chores you get no money thing and stuck to it rigidly to the point she missed out on things her friends had...he wouldnt get her an ipod and a mobile wasnt allowed until she was 16 and old enough to 'appreciate' them...and now the big things are all that matter to her.

now she won't spend money on anything, is jealous of her 'friends' for having more stuff than her such as wii's, ipods, and thus is isolated from people her age, she is slower to develop than my mums daughter despite being a year older and is now i am sad to say meaner than him with cash! she won't give it to anyone even to herself, its saved in the credit union and will stay there till she dies...

on the other hand my mum used spoil (if you could call it that she saved all year round) us at christmas we'd get our 1 big toy....ipod/computer/bike/rollerblades etc....and small toys such as monopoly and books she made a point of always buying books and she found we did enjoy the smaller things more but because we never missed out on the big things they didnt become an issue...


so yes santa will be buying my daughter a ipod/ds/bike/fancy runners probally when she hits primary school and meets peer pressure and bikes and barbies become important but i think its a small price to pay to see her happy at christmas she will learn all about the other disadvantaged kids and problems in society when she is older...in my opinion its down to parenting whether or not a child is a spoilt brat not how much santa spent.

IsThatSo?

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I think for younger years I wouldn't bombard them with reality. But I'd challenge them to use their imagination. So say they want something, I'd give them a goal like say "write me a song" or even "in return for helping your Mum".

Then when they were a bit older I'd challenge them a bit more. You want Nike runners, give me a presentation on the worker practises and how they run their sweat shops.

I think the consumerist philosophy (get the latest iPoD) is very very shallow intellectually, philosophically and it's also pretty poor for imagination and morals.

More importantly, I don't think it can provide genuine happiness. I can't stand the keeping up with the Jones malarky. There's something magical and far more beautiful about doing something that has stronger sense of morality or imagination.

I'd like to teach my kids that.

I admire that you want your future children to become adults with a social conscience, I believe that most parents want this for their children

I personally would not choose to get my children to give me a presentation on worker practices before any of them got a pair of runners, I can't see this being effective in achieving what you want, at any age tbh. I feel this type of tactic runs the risk of my children not approaching me, which has much wider implications for other important aspects of their lives such as emotional wellbeing, sharing problems, asking for help etc

In our house my 7 year old gets a big present for Christmas and for his birthday. He also gets other smaller presents that I think he would enjoy, either as educational tools or just for plain fun

He saves his pocket money or money he gets as gifts to buy himself things throughout the year. We didn't set out, as parents, with this in mind, it has evolved since he started getting pocket money. He did get a gift when his school report came in as it was excellent and we set a limit of €10, he only spent €6. I do not seek approval from anyone for this, it works for us but may not work for everyone.

The evolving thing is important because we all learn about parenting as we go along

My son has no idea what he wants from Santa this year, but he will get his main pressie. I know when he is older he will want the branded runners or jeans, or whatever else is "in", and he can have them as presents for Christmas or birthday, otherwise he can save up for them during the year, same as he does now

He is aware of starving children in Africa, its covered in the school curriculum, but tbh its "out there" somewhere for him and he finds it hard to relate to it just now. When he asks we talk about it, but we follow his lead and take it at his pace. I would never ever tell him to eat all his dinner as there are starving children in Africa who would wish for his food, he is not responsible for the state of the world, but I hope he can do his bit in helping to resolve some of these problems when he reaches adulthood

Keeping up with the Jones's is wrong, no doubt about it, but there is a middle ground..............until you are a parent its difficult to understand how rocky this middle ground can be sometimes

Enjoy your journey with your child, it goes by so quickly

eviltwin

Isthatso is right. I think its really important kids are aware of the less fortunate in society and that they are raised to have a social conscience but there is a time and a place.

I would hate for my two to be materialistic but I'm not about to have a lecture about the lesser offs everytime I give them a gift or something. I dont think kids should be made to feel guilty about what they have. I want my two to be proud of the fact that they have gone out and earned something nice for themselves be that a holiday, a nice car or a new outfit.

There has to be balance. I think spending vast sums of cash on kids who are too young to really understand the value of it is stupid and pointless. I think Tim is right that not everything should be just handed to kids on a plate. But I think there is no harm is having the odd occasion where you give your child something just because you can.

You'll know yourself as your child grows up what camp they fall into. If they start demanding the lastest whatever because "all my mates have it" then probably the damage has been done lol

stovelid

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Yes. I set myself goals for how much I give, give it to the most effective charity, and give up time for volunteer work.

I haven't bought a new TV since 1997.


Of course it's nice to get the new iPod. But that doesn't mean it's right.



I think for younger years I wouldn't bombard them with reality. But I'd challenge them to use their imagination. So say they want something, I'd give them a goal like say "write me a song" or even "in return for helping your Mum".

Then when they were a bit older I'd challenge them a bit more. You want Nike runners, give me a presentation on the worker practises and how they run their sweat shops.

I think the consumerist philosophy (get the latest iPoD) is very very shallow intellectually, philosophically and it's also pretty poor for imagination and morals.

More importantly, I don't think it can provide genuine happiness. I can't stand the keeping up with the Jones malarky. There's something magical and far more beautiful about doing something that has stronger sense of morality or imagination.

I'd like to teach my kids that.

There's a very good book called "The Life you can Safe" it's not a parenting book per se but a very interesting read for any adult.
Make it to the end and you'll change your opinions, I guarentee you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Modern_Parents

big syke

Tim Robbins wrote: »

So say they want something, I'd give them a goal like say "write me a song" or even "in return for helping your Mum".

I think that would only teach children to do only things because they'd expect to get something in return. Thats a terrible habbit to instill in them. Would you not like to ever give your child something as a gift or becasue you want to treat them.

What would happen when they get older? They will only get their fiancé an engagement ring if she cooks dinner for a month? Come on get real...


Anyway first xmas as santa for me!! My daughter will only be 6 months so only gettin a few bits and pieces but i know when shes 3/4 i will go ninja on presents!! Cant wait!!!!!!!

Khannie

big syke wrote: »

i know when shes 3/4 i will go ninja on presents!! Cant wait!!!!!!!

LOL.

eviltwin

Its all very well being idealistic before you have kids, I think most of us are, but once they arrive its very hard to say no to "pester power"

Tim Robbins

Khannie wrote: »

It's not possible to ethically purchase everything. You just can't be sure what the conditions were like for every single person who helped manufacture every single thing you buy. Where do you draw the line like? A presentation on hunger before dinner time? (rhetorical question)

Of course but it's quite easy to instill a sense of ethics. All it's takes is a bit of proactivity.

There's a consumerist philosophy now? I don't buy myself much. To be blunt I can't afford to. There are lots of cheap and cheerful ways to enjoy life and I make the most of them. Do I want a nice shiny 50 inch TV? You bet your ass I do. Is my happiness dependent on it? Of course not. Are my "imagination and morals" poor because I want a shiny 50 inch TV? Am I shallow intellectually and philosophically as you suggest? Don't be daft man.

Well it depends how you define these things. Ultimately, people hate challenging themselves and thinking critically.

Look.....Your post come across (to me at least) as very superior and smug. Like you're looking down on me from your lofty moral heights. Well...my morals are pretty decent thanks very much. I make a sincere effort to purchase ethically. Am I gonna get my kid a game boy for Christmas if he asks for one though? Sure. He's a good kid. Do I think he needs to know how crap the world is while he's still enjoying the innocence of childhood? Nope.

Eh - tone down on the insults to yourself please.
If you don't like challenging questions, fair enough but please don't dismiss those of us who do.

Tim Robbins

big syke wrote: »

I think that would only teach children to do only things because they'd expect to get something in return. Thats a terrible habbit to instill in them. Would you not like to ever give your child something as a gift or becasue you want to treat them.

What would happen when they get older? They will only get their fiancé an engagement ring if she cooks dinner for a month? Come on get real...


Anyway first xmas as santa for me!! My daughter will only be 6 months so only gettin a few bits and pieces but i know when shes 3/4 i will go ninja on presents!! Cant wait!!!!!!!

You're completly missing my point by jumping to an absolute extreme.
That's just dumbing it all down.

No-one wants to spoil their kids. No-one wants to admit they spoil their kids.
But yet we all know people who spoil their kids. It all comes down to what we think is reasonable and why we think it is reasonable.

Most people value their own happiness above all else. This includes the misery of others, especially people they never have to see or feel guilty about.

I'd like to bring my kids up with broader world views and teach them to question things. That doesn't mean shoving their faces in misery but just having a deeper appreciation of life and thinking a bit more about what is going on rather than just throwing more toys at them.

Tim Robbins

stovelid wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Modern_Parents

Very funny.

None of you are realing dealing with the question though: how to instill a good sense of ethics in your children.

I see no creative ideas from any of you. It's easy to just laugh at those of us who are going to make an effort.

Tim Robbins

IsThatSo? wrote: »

I personally would not choose to get my children to give me a presentation on worker practices before any of them got a pair of runners, I can't see this being effective in achieving what you want, at any age tbh. I feel this type of tactic runs the risk of my children not approaching me, which has much wider implications for other important aspects of their lives such as emotional wellbeing, sharing problems, asking for help etc

In our house my 7 year old gets a big present for Christmas and for his birthday. He also gets other smaller presents that I think he would enjoy, either as educational tools or just for plain fun

Ok you're all different. I would love if my parents gave me the opportunity and encouraged me to do presentations.

I can't believe such a simple idea freaks you all out. But there you go.

Keeping up with the Jones's is wrong, no doubt about it, but there is a middle ground..............until you are a parent its difficult to understand how rocky this middle ground can be sometimes

I fully appreciate that. I expect I'll be reading these posts in a few months time laughing at myself.

Although you just never know. Sometimes you have to think out of the box.

I was a hyperactive child and caused some teachers a lot of problems as when I got bored I used to start messing in the class. I remember hearing an interview with Jim Carrey once who no doubt was more hyperactive.

He said that he had this brilliant teacher who said to him if he was quiet for the day the teacher would give him the last ten minutes to do whatever he wanted to entertain the class.

Apparently he worked really hard to come up with comic sketches and he nevered troubled the teacher. In fact, everyone looked forward to the end of the day when Jim would entertain all the kids in the class. The teacher even said to the rest of class if they worked really hard, they'd get to see Jim do his piece and they did.

I just think that type of thing is genius. It's goal driven, challenging and very rewarding.

big syke

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Of course but it's quite easy to instill a sense of ethics.

The problem is you are not trying to teach ethics. You are tryin to teach if your child wants x they will have to do y.

over time they will learn to only do things when there is a reward involved which is essentially what you are teaching them.

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Eh - tone down on the insults to yourself please.
If you don't like challenging questions, fair enough but please don't dismiss those of us who do.

How was

Look.....Your post come across (to me at least) as very superior and smug. Like you're looking down on me from your lofty moral heights. Well...my morals are pretty decent thanks very much. I make a sincere effort to purchase ethically. Am I gonna get my kid a game boy for Christmas if he asks for one though? Sure. He's a good kid. Do I think he needs to know how crap the world is while he's still enjoying the innocence of childhood? Nope

an insult?? I think you need to look at what your TRYING to teach and get off your moral high horse.

Tim Robbins

Deleted User wrote: »

I've a 13 year old .... I rarely spend less than €500 per year on Christmas. As kids get older, their requests get more specific, and they get more expensive, especially when they start asking for the electronics, such as Playstations, DSi, ipods, that kind of thing.

500! Crikey. Would you accept most people can't afford that?

big syke

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Very funny.

None of you are realing dealing with the question though: how to instill a good sense of ethics in your children.

I see no creative ideas from any of you. It's easy to just laugh at those of us who are going to make an effort.

Well in order to instill ethics in children you begin with basic things like right from wrongi.e. stealing, hitting etc. But hitting children with presentation on third world children so they can get what they want off santa is zapping all the fun from presents in my opinion.

Anyway back on topic i still cant figure out what to get for a 6 month old at xmas....hmmm could she like a ps3 no....

Tim Robbins

big syke wrote: »

Well in order to instill ethics in children you begin with basic things like right from wrongi.e. stealing, hitting etc. But hitting children with presentation on third world children so they can get what they want off santa is zapping all the fun from presents in my opinion.

Anyway back on topic i still cant figure out what to get for a 6 month old at xmas....hmmm could she like a ps3 no....

I was in Ikea last night and they had some lovely teddies.