Advice - German Shepherd - Security Work

MyaP

Hi all, I am relatively new to this forum and would like some advice re. my mother's german shepher dog. He is approximately 3 and a half years old and my mother received him as a gift even though such a dog was not ideal for her. She is in her 70's and he was company around the area of her house along with another dog who has now gone. Basically he has always been obedient on the lead etc and is socialised with older children and people coming and going from my Mum's house. However this weekend he bit a delivery woman and my mother is distraught. I have looked at other threads and my Mum is obviously worried and not in the position to re-train him. Two weeks ago she brought him into town walking for a visit to the vet and the dog saw something, pulled across in front of her quickly and she fell.

Now she is housebound for a while as she has a fractured pelvis. She was due to go on holiday, long story short the dog spent a while in kennels and was great though it was a new expierence for him. He was back a week and then bit the lady who came twice onto the property and moved a plant pot he sits beside to leave a note for my Mother. The dog reacted badly and bit her on the leg. He always barks when people go by the house but we never thought he would do this! I am not in the position to take the dog as I work long hours in Dublin with limited space. Obviously she wants the dog to go to a good home or else work in a security yard. Could anyone offer ideas about dogs working in security grounds?

I know it is not ideal but really she is not in the position to leave the dog there, our cousin's children often play with him and come in whenever, just worried he would do something again. From the beginning I knew he was not the appropriate dog for her but now she has grown attached to him. Any advice? Would it be possible for him to get security work? Would people take on such a dog? I think he was just being territorial but am so upset he did that! My mum lives in an open country road and is worried he would attack children etc

MyaP

Sorry, I don't want people to think I am just pursuing security work for the dog, the more I think about the more I know that would be a harsh life. Would it be possible to rehome him? Would the ISPCA rehome such a dog or any organisation? He just bit someone once?

Inexile

sorry to hear your mum is having problems.

I wouldnt be keen to give this dog up for security work. Good secuirty dogs should be well trained so that they can be recalled to leave situations as well as defend places. Ah - just seen your second post - so I glad that option is being reviewed.

When the dog bit did it draw blood or just apply pressure. To be fair to the dog it sound like it was minding its terriority and it saw the removal of the pot as an invasion of its terriority. Would you consider getting a behavourist in for advice.

Using a head collar on the dog would give more control when walking. There are also some GSD rescue sites who may be able to give assistance.

MyaP

Thanks for the advice. To be honest, though I don't see my Mum keeping the dog, she got quite a fright when she heard about it. Unfortunately his bite drew blood, the woman fell running away from him when he growled and he bit her leg. She was outside the home area at that stage and jumped back in her car. I will see about a behaviourialist, I just think my Mum mighn't be very confident about leaving him there.

As for a head collar does that sit on the dog's shoulder's as well,..sorry for my ignorance, will google it.:) I will also take your advice re rescue centres. Does anyone know animal behaviouralist's in the Wexford area? It seems so strange that he did that when there was builders in and out of the house only a few weeks ago no bother!

MyaP

Just to let you know I rang the ISPCA in Dublin, recommended that I advertise the dog for rehoming and let people know all the history if they are interested in taking on the dog. Regarding security work they just said I should check out the area where other dogs are housed with the security form etc. monitored in the Dublin area.

Will see what happens. As for animal behaviouralists from what I have seen on the internet none work in the Wexford area that actually deal with aggressive dogs. I don't think the dog is aggressive but it is the bite thing that has to be addressed.

Thanks for the advice

helimachoptor

Op your looking for a Halti, they go around the snout and head of the dog and are very good with large dogs having a GSD myself. Basically if you have a chain/standard leash around the neck the dog can pretty much use its entire bodyweight and power to go in the direction it wants. This makes it hard to control the dog if it bolts without warning.

A halti basically lets you "steer" the dog where it has very little ability to resist you. Maybe ask her to give that a try for a while before rehoming??

Shammy

The dog even though obedient on the lead saw itsself as the pack leader , which makes the dog unstable.
Try and go to a behavourist with lots of experience and he should be able to help you out.

MyaP

Thanks for the tips. I will check out the Halti and see if anyone else can walk him in the meantime (people he knows well). At the moment my Mum is housebound after the fall.

Yes, the idea of him thinking he is pack leader makes sense. It is strange that he attacked a woman (given she was on his territory though) more than men whom the dog is less used to being around. My Mum didn't really properly train him and my sister and I did what we could when we visited. He can sit, walk on the lead etc but ain't great at 'stay'

As I said earlier I didn't think he was appropriate for my Mum but she felt very safe with him. What is even stranger is that the lady was delivering flowers. The dog took those flowers after she left and brought them up to an outhouse shed where he sleeps. My Mum found him there with the flowers untouched just sitting beside them. We thought it was really cute until we realised what he had done when the woman rang back.

Lauragoesmad

Hi OP,
If all else fails, try dogsaid sanctuary in Dublin. Maggie(the lady who runs it) has taken in lots of dogs with aggressive streaks. She says some dogs are either "too old or too bold":D to be rehomed so they live out their days in the sanctuary. All the dogs there are really well looked after, are well fed and get any vet treatment they need. They each have their own bed and have lots of volunteers and other dogs to play with. The sanctuary might be too full to take him but its worth a shot. www.dogsaid.ie

Is your mams dog neutered by the way?

MyaP

Thanks for the advice, btw just rang dogsaid. I am putting up pics and background of dog etc and she said she would send the info on to German Shepherd Aid in the UK for rehoming if possible. Very helpful! Also he is not neutered. They asked that too. Is it too late for him to be neutered? thought that had to be when the dog was young.
Anyhow will send the info and let you know what happens.

Thanks

Paul91

had my Tyson done at 2 and half, he calmed down so much and lost a lot of agression, the 3 year old daughter of our neighbours now regularly jumps all over him without a bat of his eyelid.

don't think it's too late to get him done, ask the Vets

also try the animal welfare groups on irishanimals.ie maybe?

Noreen1

First of all, let me state that I am not a dog behaviourist. Just experienced handling dogs, including Sheperds.

It seems to me that there are a couple of issues here:

Was your mother at home when the delivery lady left the flowers?
Sheperds are very territorial, and, in the absence of the owner being around, become extremely protective of the property. It's what makes them good guard dogs. So, if your mother wasn't home when the dog attacked, you could say it's behaviour was reasonably predictable.

When the delivery lady lifted the flower pot, the dog responded by growling (that was a warning) - at which point the delivery lady ran away.
Running away from an aggressive dog is usually unwise, because it triggers their hunting instinct.

If you are a stranger to the dog, and on it's territory, it is usually better to submit. ie Drop your head, place your hands slowly palms out in front of you, and back away. Do not stare at the dog - direct eye contact will be regarded as a challenge. Do keep an eye on the dog, though, to monitor its reaction. If the dog is of an unusually aggressive temperament, and is going to attack, anyway, you may have no option but to run.

In my experience (and I stress that I am not an expert - so use your own judgement and level of experience at dog handling)Sheperds are often misundertood when they deliver an extreme warning.
This is because their body language differs subtly from a collie, for example.
If you pat a collie, and they lay their ears back, it is a sign of pleasure.
In Sheperds, it is the direct opposite - it is one of the most extreme warnings they give before attacking. Faced with a Sheperd with its ears laid back, unless you are very confident of your ability to control the dog, the safe option is to back off.

The other issue is your mothers age. Generally speaking, ladies in their 70s are not physically strong enough to safely walk a Sheperd. A very experienced dog handler might possibly be able to do it at that age, by maintaining pack leader status, but in any pack, there are constant challenges for leadership, so it's generally a situation that would require constant monitoring. There are exceptions to this rule, but in the interest of safety, I would agree that it would be unwise for your mother to keep the dog.

Not much help to you, I'm afraid, but might help someone else, hopefully.

Noreen

MyaP

Noreen1 wrote: »

First of all, let me state that I am not a dog behaviourist. Just experienced handling dogs, including Sheperds.

It seems to me that there are a couple of issues here:

Was your mother at home when the delivery lady left the flowers?
Sheperds are very territorial, and, in the absence of the owner being around, become extremely protective of the property. It's what makes them good guard dogs. So, if your mother wasn't home when the dog attacked, you could say it's behaviour was reasonably predictable.

When the delivery lady lifted the flower pot, the dog responded by growling (that was a warning) - at which point the delivery lady ran away.
Running away from an aggressive dog is usually unwise, because it triggers their hunting instinct.

If you are a stranger to the dog, and on it's territory, it is usually better to submit. ie Drop your head, place your hands slowly palms out in front of you, and back away. Do not stare at the dog - direct eye contact will be regarded as a challenge. Do keep an eye on the dog, though, to monitor its reaction. If the dog is of an unusually aggressive temperament, and is going to attack, anyway, you may have no option but to run.

In my experience (and I stress that I am not an expert - so use your own judgement and level of experience at dog handling)Sheperds are often misundertood when they deliver an extreme warning.
This is because their body language differs subtly from a collie, for example.
If you pat a collie, and they lay their ears back, it is a sign of pleasure.
In Sheperds, it is the direct opposite - it is one of the most extreme warnings they give before attacking. Faced with a Sheperd with its ears laid back, unless you are very confident of your ability to control the dog, the safe option is to back off.

The other issue is your mothers age. Generally speaking, ladies in their 70s are not physically strong enough to safely walk a Sheperd. A very experienced dog handler might possibly be able to do it at that age, by maintaining pack leader status, but in any pack, there are constant challenges for leadership, so it's generally a situation that would require constant monitoring. There are exceptions to this rule, but in the interest of safety, I would agree that it would be unwise for your mother to keep the dog.

Not much help to you, I'm afraid, but might help someone else, hopefully.

Noreen

Thanks for that Noreen. Yes, my Mum though strong for her age, and appears younger did find it hard at times to walk him. Though I found him good on the lead myself. As for the delivery woman, my Mum was away at the time, just the dog there. Most people drive in to the house area and hop out of the car to leave something no problems (but people are initimidated when they see the dog). However this woman walked onto the property and left delivery on the doorstep. She then left, went back to her car and forgot to leave something else on the doorstep. She then returned there which must of aroused the dog's suspicion returning again, and left a note under a pot by moving it. The dog lies by that pot at night and guards the front door so think then he went for her.

As it is my Mum is not in the position to retrain him etc so looking at rehoming. We heard he was great with other dogs etc at the kennels so that was good to hear. Here is hoping we find him a good home.

Paul91

MyaP wrote: »

Thanks for that Noreen. Yes, my Mum though strong for her age, and appears younger did find it hard at times to walk him. Though I found him good on the lead myself. As for the delivery woman, my Mum was away at the time, just the dog there. Most people drive in to the house area and hop out of the car to leave something no problems (but people are initimidated when they see the dog). However this woman walked onto the property and left delivery on the doorstep. She then left, went back to her car and forgot to leave something else on the doorstep. She then returned there which must of aroused the dog's suspicion returning again, and left a note under a pot by moving it. The dog lies by that pot at night and guards the front door so think then he went for her.

As it is my Mum is not in the position to retrain him etc so looking at rehoming. We heard he was great with other dogs etc at the kennels so that was good to hear. Here is hoping we find him a good home.

if your rehoming try these guys http://www.irishanimals.ie/gsdall_homes.html