30 kph limit in Dublin City - Jan 2010

trout

Just read this on aertel ... a new 30 kph limit will be enforced in Dublin city centre "in the new year".
Comes into force on Jan 31st 2010. Proposed by Labour - Andrew Montague. Apparently, this will reduce road fatalities by 80%

Link -> http://www.rte.ie/aertel/110-01.html (dunno how long this link will last)

Anyone know anything more about this ? Where the limit stops & starts ?

For the hours I drive through the city centre, I don't know that 30 kph comes into it ... usually it's much slower than that.

I wonder if we will see safety cameras enforcing this limit.

Turner

Would be useful on the quays, especially the south quay heading towards heuston.

Its lethal for pedestrians and cyclists.

Would hate to be the Gardai that have to enforce it though.

"Sorry sir you were doing 40km/hr in a 30 zone" Doesnt seem very fast.

Wishbone Ash

The 30kph is already in force on certain streets including O'Connell Street.

jaffa20

jebus, i could walk quicker. i guess that is their aim.

Quint

Looks like they're adding lights at a junction, think it's Hogan Place and Macken Street, completely not needed. Seems that the idea is to discourage cars from the city centre, make it gradually harder and harder to get cars into the city.

jesus_thats_gre

Chief--- wrote: »

Would hate to be the Gardai that have to enforce it though.

"Sorry sir you were doing 40km/hr in a 30 zone" Doesnt seem very fast.

It's 33% over the limit. You would want to have some neck on ya to argue that with a Garda.

utick

thats less than 20 mph sure many people could be running past ya

Overheal

thats easy to drive though. hard to make the argument its not. most of that can be done idling..sadly. its about as much as you can do in a parking lot anyway.

smellslikeshoes

I'm a little suspicious of this 80% figure but I definitely am in favour of the changes. It shouldn't make much difference driving in most parts of Dublin as you won't really be going much faster with traffic lights, traffic etc. There is places like along the quays where this is definitely needed though, have only to go back a few weeks to where a cyclist was killed along there.

cosmic

As a cyclist, I think this is great news! I started cycling in Dublin about 10 years ago and it was lethal back then, massive trucks lined along the quays, no bike lanes... Gradually it's getting safer and safer. I think the 30 kph is a good step forward

trout

How many people are killed by cars/trucks/buses in Dublin city centre each year ?

I know the real answer is "too many" ... but I'd like to know where the figure of 80% comes from ... does it have any basis in fact, as opposed to political soundbites ?

The Recliner

Quint wrote: »

Looks like they're adding lights at a junction, think it's Hogan Place and Macken Street, completely not needed. Seems that the idea is to discourage cars from the city centre, make it gradually harder and harder to get cars into the city.

Pedestrian lights are needed there, it is terrible junction to cross without lights

Yakuza

trout wrote: »

I know the real answer is "too many" ... but I'd like to know where the figure of 80% comes from ... does it have any basis in fact, as opposed to political soundbites ?

A vehicle travelling at 30km/h has only 36% of the kinetic energy of one travelling at 50km/h (the energy is proportional to the square of the velocity).

I'm not saying that there's a direct 1:1 correlation between impact energy and numbers of deaths, but I'd be fairly confident in saying that a 2/3 reduction in it greatly increases your chances of surviving getting hit. Couple that with braking distances being a shorter at lower speeds (which should help reduce the number of collisions in the first place), this could well lead to a dramatic fall-off in numbers being killed.

I've no accident figures to quote, just my opinion.

trout

I'm not arguing the physics ... I'm asking 80% of what figure ?

Are the accident figures compiled & published somewhere ?

I can see how speed is a factor ... especially for pedestrians ... for those unfortunate cyclists killed by trucks turning left, is the speed of the truck the primary danger ?

What made me sit up when I read the aertel story is the "80% reduction" soundbite ... it's somewhat meaningless in the absence of a total figure. If there is actual science behind the numbers, let it be seen.

I mean, if 80% reductions in fatalities (from whatever total) can be achieved with a 30 kph limit ... would you have 95% with a 15 kph limit ?

Is there some trade-off between saving lives, and moving traffic ?

cosmic

trout wrote: »

I can see how speed is a factor ... especially for pedestrians ... for those unfortunate cyclists killed by trucks turning left, is the speed of the truck the primary danger ?

I'm a cyclist, and I have been for a long time now. It is and it isn't. A couple of times I've been unfortunate enough to be stuck on the inside of a truck that randomly decides to turn left and the only thing to do is grab your bike and jump onto the path as quickly as you bloody can. If the truck is going slower there's more of a chance of getting onto the path out of harm's way, I guess.

BendiBus

Quint wrote: »

Looks like they're adding lights at a junction, think it's Hogan Place and Macken Street, completely not needed. Seems that the idea is to discourage cars from the city centre, make it gradually harder and harder to get cars into the city.

Certainly cross-town traffic will be encouraged to use the new bridge at Macken St when it opens at the end of the year. That should be a good thing for all concerned. Including city centre bound traffic.

John Mason

hey trouty

it is going to start at Parnell Square and Finish at Stephens Green, i am not sure how wide it goes though.

but seriously they are having a laugh, if they think people can actually get up to 30kph. On average, i would say from Pearse Street to Parnell Steet, i would think 10-15 kph is the average speed

In_tuition

Dublin

netwhizkid

To get up to 30km/h would be pretty hard anyways!

AlmightyCushion

Like anyone manages to go faster than that in Dublin anyways.

minidazzler

When do cars ever get up to 30 km/h on O' Connell and Parnell St?

AnonoBoy

But how else am I going to make sure I hit that all-night rave on Friday, watch afternoon football on Saturday, hit the clubs on Saturday, a party afterwards avec some ladies and make sure I'm still awake to take my grandmother to half twelve Mass on Sunday?













Oh wait.... you're talking about traffic restrictions or something, yeah?

AlmightyCushion

In fairness they'd probably had to do it. Some probably seen the speed limits already in place and tried to sue them for false advertising.

rcunning03

netwhizkid wrote: »

To get up to 30km/h would be pretty hard anyways!

Maybe Merkel and her 4th reich will build an autobahn under the city so we can get home quicker:)

In_tuition

Isn't there an underground system project in place similar to that of the tube in London. Supposedly going to run from the City out to Swords or the airport. Not quite sure seen 3d plans for it some time ago can't remember where though.

JuliusCaesar

I get up to about 25kph on my bicycle.

rcunning03

In_tuition wrote: »

Isn't there an underground system project in place similar to that of the tube in London. Supposedly going to run from the City out to Swords or the airport. Not quite sure seen 3d plans for it some time ago can't remember where though.

If your talking about the metro and correctly think it's taking a very long time. Just bear in mind they started buying land for the M50 in the 60's and they are still working on it.

WindSock

This sucks for those of us who drive through the city at night when there is no one around. Now I (my car) am going to get attacked by junkies and homeless people while crawling through town

Victor

Quint wrote: »

Looks like they're adding lights at a junction, think it's Hogan Place and Macken Street, completely not needed. Seems that the idea is to discourage cars from the city centre, make it gradually harder and harder to get cars into the city.

Eh, Beckett Bridge is expected to open in December.

trout wrote: »

How many people are killed by cars/trucks/buses in Dublin city centre each year ?

A variety of measures since 1997 have seen road deaths in the (whole) city drop from more than 50 per year to about a dozen per year.

I know the real answer is "too many" ... but I'd like to know where the figure of 80% comes from ... does it have any basis in fact, as opposed to political soundbites ?

Its a misquote. See http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62446533&postcount=36

utick wrote: »

thats less than 20 mph sure many people could be running past ya

Usain Bolt 100m, 9.5 seconds = 37 km/h I think you exaggerate.

WindSock wrote: »

This sucks for those of us who drive through the city at night when there is no one around. Now I (my car) am going to get attacked by junkies and homeless people while crawling through town

Would the oppoerative pharase be "when there is no one around."? Again, I think you exaggerate. In any case people like that tend to target people at traffic lights.

rcunning03

I'm not too bothered about the new speed limit. The times I'm in town 30kph is more aspirational than anything. They could save a lot more lives if they enforce the rules of the road on cyclists and crack down on jay walking.