Grandfather clause pistols

G17

You won't get any pistol if it's not on the list, grandfather clause was nonsense to keep people quiet (NARGC duped into believing it too). Countrywide policy agreed, if it ain't on the list you ain't getting it. Legalities/promises aside, this is what is now happening (I hope I was dreaming and I'm wrong). All grandfather clause people are being shafted.


Some will say I shouldn't have posted this yet, but I reckon it really doesn't matter now either way. And the recipient of the letters (hand delivered by two seniors) said "tell who you like".

Really sorry for the bad news.

bunny shooter

Another rumour ? ...............................

G17

bunny shooter wrote: »

Another rumour ? ...............................

Here's hoping! But no, not this time.

Cass

So we're all loosing our licences? Pre Nov 18th and all?

G17

ezridax wrote: »

So we're all loosing our licences? Pre Nov 18th and all?

Pre Nov 18th and all.

And look, before anyone starts saying, can you post the letters online, I can't or I don't want to publish names. But when you hear as you likely will shortly from mates in the community by text or whatever who the recipient of those letters was, you'll sigh just as deeply as I have. This guy is no shrinking violet when it comes to these matters.

Cass

S**t. Not shocked but a little surprised. Thought some would get to keep them.

D DOG

A number of people have recieved these letters today.

Cass

Remember all the talk of good reason, continuous usage, range attendance etc, does this mean even if all the criteria is met it still doesn't matter?

Not shocked but a little surprised

P.S. I take it back i'm shocked.

Lemon3

With Grandfather clause gone, it looks like its going to be a bleak Xmas.
I'm one of the many who will lose out here, this is sickening, but only the hopelessly optimistic did not see this one coming.

rowa

stick up the letter here if you have it , and since the grandfather clause is written into law are the garda / doj /minister not in breach of there own law now ?

rrpc

rowa wrote: »

stick up the letter here if you have it , and since the grandfather clause is written into law are the garda / doj /minister not in breach of there own law now ?

I think you might be right there Rowa. There's certainly from the sound of what G17 is saying a complete disregard of this:

3D.—(1) As and from the date of commencement of this section, no application for a firearm certificate in respect of a short firearm shall be considered by an issuing person other than for—
(c) a short firearm for which the applicant for the firearm certificate held a fire arm certificate on or before 19 November 2008.

But it needs to be clarified and it also needs to be taken up in the proper channels to make sure it's not somebody inventing the firearms acts again.

Those days should be well behind us seeing as there's more than enough law on the statute books at this stage.

Cass

+1 rrpc

rowa

has anyone received a new licence for a centrefire pistol ? i don't want to believe this until i see something concrete , if it is true then i think compensation becomes an issue despite those who say we're not entitled to it , maybe we could be paid out of o'donaghues repayment to the state .:mad:

G17

Here's another bit of bad news, big game rifle (restricted)? You might get a certificate but a condition will be you can't fire it in the state. I have no idea if that applies to .22 tube mag rifles, but it might.

I'm posting nothing but joy today............

rowa

G17 wrote: »

Here's another bit of bad news, big game rifle (restricted)? You might get a certificate but a condition will be you can't fire it in the state. I have no idea if that applies to .22 tube mag rifles, but it might.

I'm posting nothing but joy today............

yes but how on earth can they police that ? if someone is living in the back of beyond with the nearest police station 20 miles away whats to stop them rambling off to the nearest forestry or bog and firing a few rounds ?

Grizzly 45

Sorry,will need to see proof of this in some shape or form.IE Written on paper proof.This looks like somone making it up as they go along,cherrypicking bits from the guidelines and legislation or testing the waters to see what they can get away with in the future..

rowa

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Sorry,will need to see proof of this in some shape or form.IE Written on paper proof.This looks like somone making it up as they go along,cherrypicking bits from the guidelines and legislation or testing the waters to see what they can get away with in the future..

making it up as they go along , cherrypicking , yep sounds exactly like what the gardai/doj have been doing for the past 40 years regarding firearms legislation .
i don't see how they can tell someone that they can't fire a legally held rifle on an authorized range , its either legally held and authorized or its not .
i wouldn't be suprised if they did try something on regarding the centrefire pistols , a cousin of mine applied for his (.40 s+w) last week to be told " if it's not on the list you won't be getting it "

Cass

While we all wouldn't be surprised for something like this to happen i think Grizzly and rowa have it right. It seems like a water testing exercise, but as its written into the CJ(MP)A how can they ignore this piece of legislation and do a 180. Is there a legal eagle out there that could shed some light on this?

rrpc

G17 wrote: »

Here's another bit of bad news, big game rifle (restricted)? You might get a certificate but a condition will be you can't fire it in the state. I have no idea if that applies to .22 tube mag rifles, but it might.

I'm posting nothing but joy today............

Big game would be restricted (> .308"). It would need to be clarified as to what the applicant put down on the form because membership of Midlands should* allow you to shoot big bore rifle here.

*This would need to be clarified by Midlands.

The .22 tube mag thing is a bit of hyperbole, understandable in the circumstances, but we don't need hyseria letting loose. :eek:

rowa

Probabily because they know that the likes of the nargc etc aren't going to mount a court challenge , they know they have us on the back foot and no one has the money to spend on court procedings anyway .Divide and conquer !

Has anyone gotten one of these letters ? can you stick it up here if you have , i'd like to see proof of this .

G17

It is water testing I reckon. But how many years for appeals and the like, and what of the poor target pistol (non Olympic) shooters in the interim.

rrpc wrote: »

but we don't need hyseria letting loose. :eek:

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, too late. :eek::eek::eek::eek:

ranger4

rowa wrote: »

Probabily because they know that the likes of the nargc etc aren't going to mount a court challenge , they know they have us on the back foot and no one has the money to spend on court procedings anyway .Divide and conquer !

Has anyone gotten one of these letters ? can you stick it up here if you have , i'd like to see proof of this .

**** the court costs, Stick together and mount a huge challenge.:mad:

hk

ezridax wrote: »

While we all wouldn't be surprised for something like this to happen i think Grizzly and rowa have it right. It seems like a water testing exercise, but as its written into the CJ(MP)A how can they ignore this piece of legislation and do a 180. Is there a legal eagle out there that could shed some light on this?

They are not ignoring the leglislation, they are following it. I pointed out months ago that this was going to happen.

Read the leglislation again, it says that people who had a pistol prior to the cut off date were permitted to apply for a licience. At no stage did the leglislation state that once you applied the licience would be granted.

They were aforded the opportunity under the leglislation to reapply under the leglislation. However it was decided for what ever reason that they were not going to grant the licience, well within the current leglislation.

Again I pointed this out months ago, I also said that high power rifles were on the way out followed by almost everything else, this is also starting to bear out.

Shame on those who didnt act when there was a chance to prevent this, including individuals, and especially the A**holes who decided to try to fight their corner only, its not looking so rosey in the garden for them now either.

Now people might take their heads out of their ass and act together as one group.

I cant say I didnt see this day coming, anyone who thought that the grandfather rule was any guarentee needs to look hard at the leglislation again, anyway the grandfather rule is unjustly and unfair and would likely have been overturned resulting in a complete ban ful stop.

Looking forward to see if others dont fall to this fate also

Best of luck to those ike myself still awaiting a response.

atals77

Looks like the Secure Accommodation S.I. was a waste of paper. We won't need any alarms (monitored or otherwise) if this pistol news turns out to be true and becomes more widespread.
They may as well remove the Restriced option from FAC1 while they are at it.

Why am I not surprised we've been scr***d.

rrpc

hk wrote: »

They are not ignoring the leglislation, they are following it. I pointed out months ago that this was going to happen.

Read the leglislation again, it says that people who had a pistol prior to the cut off date were permitted to apply for a licience. At no stage did the leglislation state that once you applied the licience would be granted.

No sh*t Sherlock :rolleyes:, it has been always thus. I've never seen anything in the firearms acts that said: "to get a licence thou shalt merely apply for one".

They were aforded the opportunity under the leglislation to reapply under the leglislation. However it was decided for what ever reason that they were not going to grant the licience, well within the current leglislation.

Again I pointed this out months ago, I also said that high power rifles were on the way out followed by almost everything else, this is also starting to bear out.

Um, the high powered licence was granted, just couldn't be used here. There's still a question of whether there was a suitable place to use it here available to the applicant, and that means a range that's authorised for the calibre.

I cant say I didnt see this day coming, anyone who thought that the grandfather rule was any guarentee needs to look hard at the leglislation again, anyway the grandfather rule is unjustly and unfair and would likely have been overturned resulting in a complete ban ful stop.

So what you're saying is we should take the 'nothing' part of the 'all or nothing' appproach?

rrpc

atals77 wrote: »

Looks like the Secure Accommodation S.I. was a waste of paper. We won't need any alarms (monitored or otherwise) if this pistol news turns out to be true and becomes more widespread.
They may as well remove the Restriced option from FAC1 while they are at it.

It's not just pistols that are restricted.

rowa

if as seems likely this pistol refusal news is true and we're wasting time filling in the application form to start with ,then are we entitled to take this to the circuit court ?
i have had a centrefire pistol for over 3 years now with absolutely no incidents or accidents , surely this is proof for a court that me holding the licence is no threat to the safety of the public ?
is this the guards chancing there arm or ahern bringing in a complete ban via the back door ? i am now left holding a pistol that is worthless despite the fact that i paid a substancial amount of money for it , am entitled to compensation for its original value seeing as i am being denied the use of my own property ?

rrpc

rowa wrote: »

if as seems likely this pistol refusal news is true and we're wasting time filling in the application form to start with ,then are we entitled to take this to the circuit court ?
i have had a centrefire pistol for over 3 years now with absolutely no incidents or accidents , surely this is proof for a court that me holding the licence is no threat to the safety of the public ?
is this the guards chancing there arm or ahern bringing in a complete ban via the back door ? i am now left holding a pistol that is worthless despite the fact that i paid a substancial amount of money for it , am entitled to compensation for its original value seeing as i am being denied the use of my own property ?

OK, you haven't been refused yet, so you've nothing to appeal. Why not wait?

It's unfortunate that these refusals have come up so quickly. I'd like to see a few licences granted before I'd start assuming the worst (though for those concerned it obviously can't get any worse).

There are avenues for appeal and these should be availed of, but it's more than a bit early to start thinking so negatively.

hk

rrpc wrote: »

OK, you haven't been refused yet, so you've nothing to appeal. Why not wait?

It's unfortunate that these refusals have come up so quickly. I'd like to see a few licences granted before I'd start assuming the worst (though for those concerned it obviously can't get any worse).

There are avenues for appeal and these should be availed of, but it's more than a bit early to start thinking so negatively.

Completely agree,
The point i was making about the leglislation is the same as you made, people here seem to think that if they had the pistols prior to the cut off date they were automatically entitled to keep them, was just pointing out this is not the case and we should wait to see how others get on.

I dont think it was all or nothing and I feel if all shooters stuck together we would be in a better position, there are people out there who believed that a pistol ban was ok as it wouldnt affect them. There seems to be anactidotial evidence to suggest that people are having trouble liciencing shotguns and rifles, just saying a little untiy between shooters of all types would be far more benificial to the community as a whole

rrpc

hk wrote: »

Completely agree,
The point i was making about the leglislation is the same as you made, people here seem to think that if they had the pistols prior to the cut off date they were automatically entitled to keep them, was just pointing out this is not the case and we should wait to see how others get on.

I dont think it was all or nothing and I feel if all shooters stuck together we would be in a better position, there are people out there who believed that a pistol ban was ok as it wouldnt affect them. There seems to be anactidotial evidence to suggest that people are having trouble liciencing shotguns and rifles, just saying a little untiy between shooters of all types would be far more benificial to the community as a whole

I think people are over egging the pudding with regard to what 'power' we actually have when it comes to persuading Ministers etc. Perhaps if we had the IFA on board, we might have achieved something, but it appears the IFA are only interested in their own agenda; quelle surprise :rolleyes:

We have very little bargaining power, the only thing in our favour at the moment is that the Minister is on record as saying that the vast majority of license holders would have nothing to fear and that the new laws were designed to eliminate inconsistencies in the application of the firearms acts.

Time will tell, but making up the firearms acts as you go along was supposed to be a thing of the past, so let's wait and see.

rowa

rrpc wrote: »

OK, you haven't been refused yet, so you've nothing to appeal. Why not wait?

It's unfortunate that these refusals have come up so quickly. I'd like to see a few licences granted before I'd start assuming the worst (though for those concerned it obviously can't get any worse).

There are avenues for appeal and these should be availed of, but it's more than a bit early to start thinking so negatively.

can't help but feel rrpc that this has been a ban by stealth , with only paper target shooting left since the ban on practical there is no reason for shooting a centrefire in the eyes of the law , the super is going to say sure you can have a pistol, but not a military style one but a nice safe match pistol and hey-presto centrefire gone .
this is just a gut feeling i have , hope i am wrong .