Grandfather clause pistols

cavan shooter

As anyone heard from a shooting body yet in relation to whats going?? is there movements a foot??

rowa

4gun wrote: »

so you can only be a ligitimate shooter if you had a pistol before Nov. 18, '09

they weren't my words but his (ahern), he was trying to insinuate that there was something sinister about practical pistol shooters and shooting , helped no doubt by the gardai .

the countryside alliance are aware of the developements but i suppose are waiting to see if all centrefire applicants are going to get the big thumbs down .

rrpc

rowa wrote: »

they weren't my words but his (ahern), he was trying to insinuate that there was something sinister about practical pistol shooters and shooting , helped no doubt by the gardai .

the countryside alliance are aware of the developements but i suppose are waiting to see if all centrefire applicants are going to get the big thumbs down .

Lads, I agree with Mr. Mole about keeping your powder dry on this one. There's lots of hysteria and venting and it's not really achieving anything except higher blood pressures.

We all expected some form of a 'clear out' of what were sometimes referred to as the 'dinner party Glocks' but would be more clearly identified as the pistol owner with no club or competition involvement since getting their licence.

I think all were agreed that this cadre were not doing the rest of us any favours and that the sooner they were weeded out the better. I can't really sweeten that pill any more (mainly because I don't want to ) but it occurs to me that some Chief Superintendents are intending to do a bit of gardening and this is the way they are going about it.

So let's wait and see what develops. These guys who got the refusals have got them quite early in relation to the 31st October deadline and I read this as giving them a sporting chance to make a case for themselves before their extension runs out.

So calm síos everyone

For those with refusals, go talk to the man....

rowa

i know what you say is true rrpc , but with the state of the country economy etc and then the state of law and order here , for instance it was tonights paper that 6,000 crimes were committed by people on bail here last year , the countries prisons overflowing and no thorton hall going to be built most likely for lack of money , the threat of gardai stations closing under the bord snip report and a freeze on garda recruitment , and have you walked around dublin city centre lately ? land of the living dead , zombies on drugs everywhere and what is the dept of justice/minister/gardai at ? messing around trying to tighten gun laws when there was little problem with them in the first place and also trying to rush a new computerized licencing system into place before the clock runs out .

pedroeibar

cavan shooter wrote: »

As anyone heard from a shooting body yet in relation to whats going?? is there movements a foot??

CA Ireland sent a blanket text to members this morning (I and a mate got it) to email a TD in support of hunting.
P.

rrpc

rowa wrote: »

i know what you say is true rrpc , but with the state of the country economy etc and then the state of law and order here , for instance it was tonights paper that 6,000 crimes were committed by people on bail here last year , the countries prisons overflowing and no thorton hall going to be built most likely for lack of money , the threat of gardai stations closing under the bord snip report and a freeze on garda recruitment , and have you walked around dublin city centre lately ? land of the living dead , zombies on drugs everywhere and what is the dept of justice/minister/gardai at ? messing around trying to tighten gun laws when there was little problem with them in the first place and also trying to rush a new computerized licencing system into place before the clock runs out .

Not that I don't agree Rowa, but there's precious little we can do about any of the above except rail about the injustice of it all which I find to be largely unsatisfying in the long run.

And definitely not good for the inner serenity

rowa

rrpc wrote: »

Not that I don't agree Rowa, but there's precious little we can do about any of the above except rail about the injustice of it all which I find to be largely unsatisfying in the long run.

And definitely not good for the inner serenity

just keep the fingers crossed for an election soon and send this corrupt bunch and there backers to the dustbin of history .

jwshooter

rrpc wrote: »

Lads, I agree with Mr. Mole about keeping your powder dry on this one. There's lots of hysteria and venting and it's not really achieving anything except higher blood pressures.

We all expected some form of a 'clear out' of what were sometimes referred to as the 'dinner party Glocks' but would be more clearly identified as the pistol owner with no club or competition involvement since getting their licence.

I think all were agreed that this cadre were not doing the rest of us any favours and that the sooner they were weeded out the better. I can't really sweeten that pill any more (mainly because I don't want to ) but it occurs to me that some Chief Superintendents are intending to do a bit of gardening and this is the way they are going about it.

So let's wait and see what develops. These guys who got the refusals have got them quite early in relation to the 31st October deadline and I read this as giving them a sporting chance to make a case for themselves before their extension runs out.

So calm síos everyone

For those with refusals, go talk to the man....

bull **** there rrpc,
the guy in wexford that got refused was the first in man in the 26 counties to get "BACK" a pistol. he was very active in the club and competition circuit .if he was not fit to keep a pistol why did they offer him a 5 shot Olympic style pistol instead .

your trying to defend the undependable.
or are you looking for brownie points off some one.

rrpc

jwshooter wrote: »

bull **** there rrpc,
the guy in wexford that got refused was the first in man in the 26 counties to get "BACK" a pistol. he was very active in the club and competition circuit .if he was not fit to keep a pistol why did they offer him a 5 shot Olympic style pistol instead .

your trying to defend the undependable.
or are you looking for brownie points off some one.

I know who was refused in Wexford, and I'm not commenting on that one. For a start we haven't heard what reasons were given and since he had stuff that was licensed it's not a clear cut case.

I've not enough information to go on in his case, so as I said, I'm not commenting.

I have actually seen some of the letters the other guys got and have copies of them, so I've more information to hand on those.

So take a good step back and calm down jw, I've nobodies agenda but that people get the best advice and get the best result.

And I'll keep advising people to talk first because it is the best advice.

So keep your bull**** for the vegetable patch

Edit: Just to add (because I've just noticed it) that the 'weeding' point wasn't directed at people who were active in shooting (and if you'd read my post properly you'd have seen that) so getting all hot and bothered about my post was a bit of a wasted effort as you'e arguing against something I never said.

marlin vs

So calm síos everyone
A very hard thing to do with what's happening at the moment, Mo Chara.
We done nothing to anyone

rrpc

marlin vs wrote: »

So calm síos everyone
A very hard thing to do with what's happening at the moment, Mo Chara.
We done nothing to anyone

What's your alterantive?

Run around in circles waving your hands in the air screaming?

Whatever works for you. Me, I find approaching a problem in a calm frame of mind is usually a lot more helpful. It's certainly better for your blood pressure .

G17

rrpc wrote: »

What's your alterantive?

Run around in circles waving your hands in the air screaming?

Yes. And rum, lots of rum.

PJ Hunter

rrpc wrote: »

What's your alterantive?

Run around in circles waving your hands in the air screaming?

Whatever works for you. Me, I find approaching a problem in a calm frame of mind is usually a lot more helpful. It's certainly better for your blood pressure .

“It’s simply not in the public interest to tolerate the development of a subculture predicated on a shooting activity which by the liberal standards of the US is regarded as an extreme shooting activity.”
He said any cursory research on the internet showed that these activities were marketed as being at the “extreme end” of handgun ownership and were “anathema to the tradition of Irish sporting clubs”.
[/QUOTE d.ahern]

Fine Gael’s justice spokesman Mr Flanagan accused the Minister of scaremongering and exaggerating the threat of the development of a handgun culture.

“Rural Ireland isn’t like rural America of the George Bush Republicans, with a chicken in every pot and a gun under every pillow.
“We have no such tendencies in this country,” he said.

Mr Flanagan said he had visited a shooting range recently to find out how such clubs operated.
“I just feel that there should be a mechanism for genuine sporting enthusiasts to have their licences . . . granted under the most stringent and strict conditions.”

Labour’s justice spokesman, Mr Rabbitte, said the Minister was proposing to significantly alter the licensing regime for firearms generally, and handguns in particular.

“I’m a bit puzzled by the severity of what you’re proposing,” he said.
Mr Rabbitte said there was no evidence of guns “leaking” to the criminal fraternity from legitimate gun clubs.

He said there were “an awful lot of people” involved in recreational and sports-related shooting activities, and they were law-abiding citizens.
This article appears in the print edition of the Irish Times

I find approaching a problem in a calm frame of mind is usually a lot more helpful.

me too;)

ranger4

PJ Hunter wrote: »

“It’s simply not in the public interest to tolerate the development of a subculture predicated on a shooting activity which by the liberal standards of the US is regarded as an extreme shooting activity.”
He said any cursory research on the internet showed that these activities were marketed as being at the “extreme end” of handgun ownership and were “anathema to the tradition of Irish sporting clubs”.

Fine Gael’s justice spokesman Mr Flanagan accused the Minister of scaremongering and exaggerating the threat of the development of a handgun culture.

“Rural Ireland isn’t like rural America of the George Bush Republicans, with a chicken in every pot and a gun under every pillow.
“We have no such tendencies in this country,” he said.

Mr Flanagan said he had visited a shooting range recently to find out how such clubs operated.
“I just feel that there should be a mechanism for genuine sporting enthusiasts to have their licences . . . granted under the most stringent and strict conditions.”

Labour’s justice spokesman, Mr Rabbitte, said the Minister was proposing to significantly alter the licensing regime for firearms generally, and handguns in particular.

“I’m a bit puzzled by the severity of what you’re proposing,” he said.
Mr Rabbitte said there was no evidence of guns “leaking” to the criminal fraternity from legitimate gun clubs.

He said there were “an awful lot of people” involved in recreational and sports-related shooting activities, and they were law-abiding citizens.
This article appears in the print edition of the Irish Times

me too;)[/QUOTE]

hopefully the greens will pull the plug and bring down this shower of incompetent gangsters soon, No harm dreaming i guess.

Grizzly 45

Fat chance! The Greens have their snouts in the public trough now as well.,like all good Irish politicans they will hold onto power for powers sake.:(

rowa

ranger4 wrote: »

hopefully the greens will pull the plug and bring down this shower of incompetent gangsters soon, No harm dreaming i guess.

i was over on the politics board last night and according to some on there ( with no interest in shooting/animal rights etc ) the green party has seen a huge influx of extreme animal rights activists in the past few months and now make up a sizeable chunk of support for the greens , i believe the deal is going to be " you ban fur farming etc , you can have your nama "
and so the nightmare continues .

jwshooter

rowa wrote: »

i was over on the politics board last night and according to some on there ( with no interest in shooting/animal rights etc ) the green party has seen a huge influx of extreme animal rights activists in the past few months and now make up a sizeable chunk of support for the greens , i believe the deal is going to be " you ban fur farming etc , you can have your nama "
and so the nightmare continues .

the greens are not going to walk away from this government ,it would be political suicide for them.

plus there fuxxxd in the next election anyaway along with there bed fellows

PJ Hunter

PJ Hunter wrote: »

“It’s simply not in the public interest to tolerate the development of a subculture predicated on a shooting activity which by the liberal standards of the US is regarded as an extreme shooting activity.”
He said any cursory research on the internet showed that these activities were marketed as being at the “extreme end” of handgun ownership and were “anathema to the tradition of Irish sporting clubs”.

Fine Gael’s justice spokesman Mr Flanagan accused the Minister of scaremongering and exaggerating the threat of the development of a handgun culture.

“Rural Ireland isn’t like rural America of the George Bush Republicans, with a chicken in every pot and a gun under every pillow.
“We have no such tendencies in this country,” he said.

Mr Flanagan said he had visited a shooting range recently to find out how such clubs operated.
“I just feel that there should be a mechanism for genuine sporting enthusiasts to have their licences . . . granted under the most stringent and strict conditions.”

Labour’s justice spokesman, Mr Rabbitte, said the Minister was proposing to significantly alter the licensing regime for firearms generally, and handguns in particular.

“I’m a bit puzzled by the severity of what you’re proposing,” he said.
Mr Rabbitte said there was no evidence of guns “leaking” to the criminal fraternity from legitimate gun clubs.

He said there were “an awful lot of people” involved in recreational and sports-related shooting activities, and they were law-abiding citizens.
This article appears in the print edition of the Irish Times


after what was said in the dail, will their comments count for anything if the greens pull the plug and charlie or pat get the justice job.

Mr Mole

Lads, its easy to get excited about these issues, and I can get more excited than most but can anyone quote the exact amount of letters recieved from Chief Superintendents in respect of Restricted Firearms, or is everyone acting on the same letter or two that we are aware of?

If I tell someone that I have recieved such a letter, and they tell 50 people, will it result in 50 or more different reports here on Boards?

Attacking everyone here, Garda Justice, colleagues in the Shooting Community, the Minister, his aides etc will achieve absolutely nothing, only to excite annoy and upset many people to a threat that might not be as it seems.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/neu/eng/eft/eft21.htm

meathshooter

[QUOTE=after what was said in the dail, will their comments count for anything if the greens pull the plug and charlie or pat get the justice job.[/QUOTE]

they cant do any worse than fianna fail have done to our sport and they seem to have a better grasp of our sport only time will tell but im finished with fianna fail

G17

Mr Mole wrote: »

but can anyone quote the exact amount of letters recieved from Chief Superintendents in respect of Restricted Firearms, or is everyone acting on the same letter or two that we are aware of?

I personally know just 2 confirmed named refusals, each with multiple refusals.

I'm holding out hope, just, still.

rowa

its not the number of refusals but who they have refused , it seems they are deliberately looking to provoke something .

Cass

And/or if anyone is silly enough to take lying down. Don't have to jump for the solicitors number straight away but definitely do not let it go unchallenged.

rrpc

rowa wrote: »

its not the number of refusals but who they have refused , it seems they are deliberately looking to provoke something .

You're just jumping to conclusions. There is absolutely no evidence that that's the case and if there is, please post it here.

And by evidence, I mean the letter of refusal and the application. They are the only documents that would prove your contention.

You really don't know if somebody filled out their application form wrong or left something out or assumed the Gardai somehow 'knew' something salient and didn't bother to include it. I've already seen far too many badly filled out forms and heard about dozens of others to be convinced that every case of a 'refusal' came with a perfectly completed application.

I'm not saying they were badly completed either, just that it's a possibilty and there's only one way to prove that.

rrpc

ezridax wrote: »

And/or if anyone is silly enough to take lying down. Don't have to jump for the solicitors number straight away but definitely do not let it go unchallenged.

Stop with the solicitors please. That's a sure way to have people scurrying for previously prepared defensive positions and salvoes of writs at dawn. That's a brink there's no stepping back from without pain.

Everyone who I've advised to talk, has come back from the process a lot happier.

Cass

rrpc wrote: »

Stop with the solicitors please....... .

I didn't say go for the solicitors. I'm agreeing with your own line of thought. Are you that anxious to contradict that you don't read the post. I said DON'T jump for the solicitors. Explore and exhaust every option first then as a last resort if you do not get a satisfactory (or any) outcome then contact a solicitor. Even the consultation with one may prove invaluable and allow you to explore a previously unthought of avenue of appeal without the need for court.

rrpc

ezridax wrote: »

I didn't say go for the solicitors. I'm agreeing with your own line of thought. Are you that anxious to contradict that you don't read the post. I said DON'T jump for the solicitors. Explore and exhaust every option first then as a last resort if you do not get a satisfactory (or any) outcome then contact a solicitor. Even the consultation with one may prove invaluable and allow you to explore a previously unthought of avenue of appeal without the need for court.

My bad, saw the 'but' and ASSumed

Chipboard

There were people out there who joined clubs, rarely attended and didnt attend competitions, therefor what did they need them for. Being careful what im saying here but a few people loosing liciences here because they cant justify them might make life easier into the future for the rest of us who can.

I've heard this attitude before and I'm sick of it. Its not appropriate to pass judgement on people or deprive them of their hobby based purely on how often they attend the range. We all have jobs, wives, kids etc and other committments and sometimes it can be difficult to find the time. You might think that certain people don't deserve to be allowed to pursue the sport because they not to be as fanatical about it as you but this is rubbish. You don't know their personal circumstances - maybe they have someone sick at home, maybe they can't afford to spend as much as you on ammunition. I myself don't go as often as I would like to but thats because my job has become more demanding with the downturn, I study at night and Saturday mornings, I have two small kids (one newborn) and believe it or not I actually have another hobby apart from shooting. This is ok - you don't have to be totally one dimensional to enjoy shooting. Many people will go through a period when some of the above issues affect them - does that mean their firearm should be taken from them. If this is the situation you may as well take out a spade and bury the sport now because unless the regulations allow for normal people with normal lives to participate it will either die or be full of fanatics.

Think of it a bit like the church - too many rules which aren't practical in the 21st century so eventually you end up with just the fanatics and eventually it just fades away.

I would like my sons to take up shooting but if I thought that was all they would do, I would prefer they stay away from it.

rrpc

Chipboard wrote: »

I've heard this attitude before and I'm sick of it. Its not appropriate to pass judgement on people or deprive them of their hobby based purely on how often they attend the range.

That's not what's being discussed here Chipboard, we all know people who are in your situation and there's absolutely no problem with that.

The problem is the guy who joined a club purely to get a pistol licence and who had no intention of ever crossing it's threshold again, ever. These are the people (and to some extent the clubs that facilitated them) that we don't need in the sport.

bunny shooter

rrpc wrote: »

That's not what's being discussed here Chipboard, we all know people who are in your situation and there's absolutely no problem with that.

The problem is the guy who joined a club purely to get a pistol licence and who had no intention of ever crossing it's threshold again, ever. These are the people (and to some extent the clubs that facilitated them) that we don't need in the sport.

To be fair how can you attribute any blame to the clubs?

They accept a member and said member buys a pistol/rifle/shotgun and applys for licence. Tells Garda I'm a member of 'X' club, Garda grants licence, member never goes to range or renews membership of range and Garda issues/re-issues licence. This is not the range owner/operators fault :rolleyes: