How much longer can our government last?

thetonynator · 06-10-2009 8:10pm #1

The government is in an extremely delicate position, wiht Fas, john o; donoghue, etc. How long until the greens pull out or more TD's leave to cause the government to collapse?

dny123456 · 06-10-2009 8:17pm

about another 2 years.

O'Donoghue is pretty much gone... wont last till the end of the week
FAS board half gone, other half will be gone very soon
FAS CEO is gone

Nothing to prevent FF clinging to power, apart from the back benchers. Doubt it will be the greens that pull the plug. At least I think they shouldn't; difficult decisions need to be taken, they are the only party with the back bone to take them. They'll drag FF back benchers along kicking and screaming, hopefully.

snubbleste · 06-10-2009 8:23pm

2012 is the obvious answer

There have been so many scandals and controversies involving FF since say 2001, yet they are still voted in and irish people just tolerate the political landscape we're in.

who_ru · 06-10-2009 9:02pm

as said can't see the greens pulling the plug on this one, certainly no FF backbenchers will want to walk, turkeys don't vote for xmas after all.

FF know they are finished and want to limit the damage as much as possible, so by staying in power until 2012, after things recover somewhat they will undoubtedly claim credit for taking the hard decisions necessary, all of which are as a result of their woeful economic mismanagement over the last 10 years i.e. benchmarking, children's allowance increased way beyond what was necessary, same for welfare, low tax high spend with no consideration given to long term economic policy, it was all spend spend spend and they well and truly landed us in the mire. but wait for it, in 2 or 3 years they will say 'we were the ones to take the hard decisions' without ever saying most if not all were a direct result of absolute economic mismanagement.

DarkJager · 06-10-2009 9:12pm

If people vote them back in the next time a general election is called, we might as well just pull the plug and sink this country into the sea. Hopefully the stupid, brainless FF fanatics who voted this crowd of clowns in last time, will stay home on polling day and let the sensible adults do the right thing.

irish_bob · 06-10-2009 9:39pm

for another year at least i hope , any alternative involving labour would be worse than what is there now as the most important issue that needs tackling is a sacred cow to labour , public sector reform and pay

fine gael also need time to replace kenny who is what holds a sizeable amount of the swing vote from moving to fine gael

who_ru · 06-10-2009 10:12pm

i don't think there were that many brainless FF fanatics voting them in the last time, in fact i think FF got a huge vote in dublin and commuter counties, mainly on the basis that FF told them that they were the ones to ensure that property values would continue to rise and it would be in their interests to ensure that FF economic policies continued to be implemented. in other words most of these people voted with their pockets and didn't consider society in general. guess that dream of a house being an ever increasing asset to to be cashed in on has turned into a nightmare for many.

just watch at the next general election to see what type of vote john o donoghue gets, they will see him as being hounded out of office by the media and labour. irish politics will never change it will always be local.

Ludo · 06-10-2009 10:30pm

5 days. Govt will fall on Monday as the Greens pull out.

Judgement Day · 06-10-2009 10:46pm

Ludo wrote: »

5 days. Govt will fall on Monday as the Greens pull out.

If you really believe that you should have a bet with Paddy Power as they are offering 2/1 on the Greens withdrawing from Government before 31st December 2009. Personally I think that the Greens will hold on to power like grim death as they know they won't have even one TD after the next election .

who_ru · 06-10-2009 11:57pm

Judgement Day wrote: »

Personally I think that the Greens will hold on to power like grim death as they know they won't have even one TD after the next election .

you just know it's true - NAMA or anything else will not budge them.

Senna · 07-10-2009 12:13am

If the Greens pull out they will go from being in power to literally oblivion, there's no chance of them pulling out.

av8rirl · 07-10-2009 2:01am

Ludo wrote: »

5 days. Govt will fall on Monday as the Greens pull out.

+1

07-10-2009 2:06am

FF will of course want to stay until NAMA is implemented and every potential scandal is brushed under the carpet.

Very disappointed at FG's lack of balls at the moment.

major bill · 07-10-2009 2:12am

until the next 20 scandals pass and people finally grow a pair and take a stand against them.

Darragh29 · 07-10-2009 2:29am

The only way this government is going to fall I think is when hundreds of thousands of Irish people hit the streets and STAY THERE until a general election is forthcoming.

This government has no shame, there is nothing that can come down through the radio or the TV that will embarrass them, JOD claimed up until this evening that he was entitled to to claim all those outrageous expenses.

It's completely and entirely up to us how long this government stays in office. Funny how JOD has to resign his job but he doesn't have to leave Fianna Fail, because Fianna Fail is the natural home of treble chinned corrupt self serving bullsh*tting wasters like JOD.

Liam Byrne · 07-10-2009 2:58am

No matter how long it ends up being, it's already been at least 5 years too long.

How the **** can the Irish people have been so ****ing blind ? I mean, you could spot YEARS ago that this party - the one that has included Haughey, Lenihan senior, Burke, Lawlor, Ahern, Cooper-Flynn and now O'Donoghue - was out to flourish at all costs, feather its own nest and screw us.

And FAR TOO MANY of the electorate fell for it time and time again.

I know it's politically incorrect to call the electorate stupid, but at this stage there really is no other word for it.

If the rest of the party were stunningly competent, I'd say something; cost-benefit analysis might allow scope to let the weasels have some leeway while the rest got some stuff done.

But even then there's the obvious question - why wouldn't the decent ones weed out the scum ?

And in the absence of competence (Coughlan is well-documented, and Lenihan Jnr lies and throws our money away without reading reports) there is ABSOLUTELY no excuse.

I detest generalisations, but at this stage there is no other conclusion to draw other than that there are far too many Irish people who are (a) thick or (b) so totally devoid of morals and standards that they don't care who's in power as long as they themselves are raking it in. Basically the kind of people might not start a citywide riot themselves, but who'd be happy if someone did because they could then walk in and grab the TVs.....they gain at everyone's expense, so they don't see the problem.

I'm gone beyond glib jokes about Fianna Failure etc, at this stage, and unfortunately boards would just replace any suitable words for this party with asterisks, so there's no point even trying to think of one that describes these scum.

kerry4sam · 07-10-2009 3:03am

Darragh29 wrote: »

The only way this government is going to fall I think is when hundreds of thousands of Irish people hit the streets and STAY THERE until a general election is forthcoming.

This government has no shame, there is nothing that can come down through the radio or the TV that will embarrass them, JOD claimed up until this evening that he was entitled to to claim all those outrageous expenses.

It's completely and entirely up to us how long this government stays in office. Funny how JOD has to resign his job but he doesn't have to leave Fianna Fail, because Fianna Fail is the natural home of treble chinned corrupt self serving bullsh*tting wasters like JOD.

Why would you think he should have to resign from the Fianna Fail party?

kerry4sam · 07-10-2009 3:07am

thetonynator wrote: »

The government is in an extremely delicate position, wiht Fas, john o; donoghue, etc. How long until the greens pull out or more TD's leave to cause the government to collapse?

This upcoming meeting(s) and subsequent vote(s) from their party-members will answer that. If they remain on after this week is over then in my opinion right now, it won't matter what they face in the future they will weather that storm also and the government will remain as is until the next General Election.

Liam Byrne · 07-10-2009 3:12am

kerry4sam wrote: »

This upcoming meeting(s) and subsequent vote(s) from their party-members will answer that.

If they remain on after this week is over then in my opinion right now, it won't matter what they face in the future they will weather that storm also and

It's not a case of "weathering the storm"; it's a case that they'll have shown that they have no morals or backbone, and that will cause 2 things:

1) FF will walk all over them on any more inevitable scandals and ****ed-up policies

2) The Greens will be dead in the water after the next election and may as well pack their bags and emigrate along with all the other unemployed, becasue they'll have shown themselves to be spineless shower of self-interested ****s who have absolutely no interest in morals, ethics or the good of the country.

Harsh ? Well, they already shafted the country with how they got into Government, and remember that the above i's not yet a description of them; it's only a potential one, as they have an opportunity to prove that description wrong at the weekend, and if they do I will say fair play.

kerry4sam wrote: »

the government will remain as is until the next General Election.

That, unfortunately, is a given. We need a General Election in order to get rid of this shower of incompetent, corrupt, self-serving wasters.

Darragh29 · 07-10-2009 3:20am

kerry4sam wrote: »

Why would you think he should have to resign from the Fianna Fail party?

Your dead right, he shouldn't have to resign from the Fianna Fail party. If the party had any honour, respect for the electorate or respect for their own standards, they would f*ck him out of the party without giving him a chance to resign.

Unfortunately he is surrounded in Fianna Fail by people who are as removed from reality as he is.

Look at just one example, Noel O' Flynn, Cork North Central TD. This guy gets paid around 100K a year as a TD. He managed to claim 180K in expenses last year, that's 1.8 times his basic salary, he has managed to claim in one year as expenses.

If I did that in a private sector employment, I'd be taken outside the building and kicked around the car park for a start, then the Gardai would be called and I'd be charged with fraud.

I simply wouldn't get the opportunity to claim 1.8 times my salary in expenses, because there would be a system in place that would make sure that my expenses were completely consistent with reality.

av8rirl · 07-10-2009 3:40am

Liam Byrne wrote: »

How the **** can the Irish people have been so ****ing blind ? I mean, you could spot YEARS ago that this party - the one that has included Haughey, Lenihan senior, Burke, Lawlor, Ahern, Cooper-Flynn and now O'Donoghue - was out to flourish at all costs, feather its own nest and screw us.

And FAR TOO MANY of the electorate fell for it time and time again.

I know it's politically incorrect to call the electorate stupid, but at this stage there really is no other word for it.

I'm not making excuses as to why FF are still there since the last GE... and I do think that most of the electorate aren't thick or stupid...

The real question at the last election wasn't "do we take FF out of power?"

The real question was "how can we put Enda Kenny/Pat Rabbitte and their policies into power?"

So I suppose that people looked at FF as the lesser of two evils.

The problem here is still a LACK OF DECENT OPPOSITION... altho Gilmore did seem to stand up to the plate a little today!

nesf · 07-10-2009 3:54am

DarkJager wrote: »

If people vote them back in the next time a general election is called, we might as well just pull the plug and sink this country into the sea. Hopefully the stupid, brainless FF fanatics who voted this crowd of clowns in last time, will stay home on polling day and let the sensible adults do the right thing.

If FF are reelected in the next General we should put FG and Labour out to stud and look for a competent Opposition tbh.

Zambia · 07-10-2009 5:39am

The standard of Opposition is shocking... I have never looked at a Irish politician and said "I reckon he's ok".

Except David Irvine RIP,Martin McGuiness and Joe Higgins despite not liking the policys of any of them or them in general. But I did believe them when they spoke.

efb · 07-10-2009 6:13am

SW and PS Pay increased by 100% since 2001, Child Benefit increased 400%...

I wonder why people voted FF...

Davidth88 · 07-10-2009 7:22am

Darragh29 wrote: »

Look at just one example, Noel O' Flynn, Cork North Central TD. This guy gets paid around 100K a year as a TD. He managed to claim 180K in expenses last year, that's 1.8 times his basic salary, he has managed to claim in one year as expenses.

I simply wouldn't get the opportunity to claim 1.8 times my salary in expenses, because there would be a system in place that would make sure that my expenses were completely consistent with reality.

I think you have hit the nail on the head right there .

I totally agree that people who have legitimate expenses should get them back , I travel a lot for work , but I have to show receipts , stick within quite modest guidelines as regards flights/accomodation . These ' free loaders ' can claim all sorts of expenses without ever proving they were an expense, ie that they spent the money in the first place.

If the TD you quote in your post could prove that he spent that money, and for the correct reasons , then I truly wouldn't care if he claimed 1 million in expenses .

My worry is that expenses are being used to augment an already generous salary.

Anyway , thats well off track.

In answer to the OP..... depends if the Green Party 'Turkeys' vote for Christmas this weekend

PCPhoto · 07-10-2009 7:48am

surprised no one had actually mentioned that JOD said he will resign (announcement came around 10ish last night)

Its been obvious for years that our politicians have been creaming it - scandal after scandal came up and was brushed away because the vast majority of them are involved in similar actions.

Personally I would like to echo Gilmores and some other politician(name escapes me) in the Dail yesterday comments when called for accountability, complete reform of pay in the Civil Sector.

Like ALL other jobs a Politician should have a paypacket (ie. 100K and be told that they must make their own way to work) I know that WHEN I took a job in Dublin - while living in Cork....this simply meant I had the choice to commute at my expense ...or MOVE (at my expense) .... I cant understand why politicians dont have the same situation. - they are grossly overpaid and would need to commute from all over the country - YES, but part of the payment is to include their travel to Dublin at least once a week if not twice or more.

the HSE/Government/Private Sector needs complete reform - its hard to believe that out Taoiseach gets paid MORE than the President of USA.....our politicians NEED to get a 50% paycut and expenses removed/limited and our politicians need to be held accountable for their actions. (ie. wasted 50Million on E-voting....and the cost of storing them since... if/when e-voting is acceptable the machines will be outdated and need to be scrapped and new ones purchased..... what I would like to know is....who advised the minister on this idea and is that person still involved in the government ?

Biggins · 07-10-2009 8:18am

Judgement Day wrote: »

If you really believe that you should have a bet with Paddy Power as they are offering 2/1 on the Greens withdrawing from Government before 31st December 2009. Personally I think that the Greens will hold on to power like grim death as they know they won't have even one TD after the next election.

Which is why a number of Green names have been put forwards as the next CC!

PCPhoto wrote: »

...but part of the payment is to include their travel to Dublin at least once a week if not twice or more.

They already get an extra €234 a week allowance to cover "Walk-around" expenses!
Its dam dear I suppose, having to refill the Merc every morning! The hardship of it all.

hallelujajordan · 07-10-2009 9:04am

thetonynator wrote: »

The government is in an extremely delicate position, wiht Fas, john o; donoghue, etc. How long until the greens pull out or more TD's leave to cause the government to collapse?

Given the timing of JO'D's resignation I think there is some real concern in Dail Eireann that the government might fall this weekend. The only reason I can see for him to stick it out another week is because if the government falls and an election is called before he resigns then he will automatically get reelected for another term. . So either he is not confident the govt can survive this weekend or the Brian Cowen is not confident. Either way, it is worrying.

Personally, I would be concerned if the govt were to fall this weekend. Enda Kenny would almost certainly be our next Taoiseach and I think he has shown this week that he doesn't have the kahunas to make the tough decisions. I'm not sure that Gilmore will be able to happily adopt the 'deputy' position and I am concerned about how well that partnership can work.

ednwireland · 07-10-2009 9:30am

irish_bob wrote: »

for another year at least i hope , any alternative involving labour would be worse than what is there now as the most important issue that needs tackling is a sacred cow to labour , public sector reform and pay

eeerrrrrrrrrrr
you think the party that created the bloated public sector has the cajones to sort it out (its irrelevant no-one will do it)

meditraitor · 07-10-2009 10:08am

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Given the timing of JO'D's resignation I think there is some real concern in Dail Eireann that the government might fall this weekend. .

Thats is the reason I came to the politicing forum today,

Why is there so much speculation that the government might fall this weekend?

hallelujajordan · 07-10-2009 10:13am

meditraitor wrote: »

Thats is the reason I came to the politicing forum today,

Why is there so much speculation that the government might fall this weekend?

Green Party delegates are voting at the weekend on :

1. Programme for Govt that is not yet agreed
2. NAMA

If they vote to reject either it is likely that the Greens will have to pull out of govt. Looks like JOD is waiting to see what happens here before he formally resigns.

How much longer can our government last?

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