How much longer can our government last?

irish_bob

ednwireland wrote: »

eeerrrrrrrrrrr
you think the party that created the bloated public sector has the cajones to sort it out (its irrelevant no-one will do it)

fianna fail under bertie bloated the public sector for votes , labour believe fully believe in public sector as a core party of thier idealogy , i want time for fine gael to replace kenny , a fine gael overall majority is the only thing that can save this country

hallelujajordan

irish_bob wrote: »

fianna fail under bertie bloated the public sector for votes , labour believe fully believe in public sector as a core party of thier idealogy , i want time for fine gael to replace kenny , a fine gael overall majority is the only thing that can save this country

I agree, and as a long time FF voter I never thought I would say so.. We really need to have strong and stable government. A FG overall majority would give us that stability.

kerry4sam

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Green Party delegates are voting at the weekend on :

1. Programme for Govt that is not yet agreed
2. NAMA

If they vote to reject either it is likely that the Greens will have to pull out of govt. Looks like JOD is waiting to see what happens here before he formally resigns.

Don't they need a 2/3 majority on both counts for the motions to pass and they remain on in Government?

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

....as a long time FF voter....

I'm going to forego the obvious "why ? why ???" and the "look where you've helped to land us".......

.....the reason being the feeling of - poetically - "Hallelujah!

Finally, a sign that the tide is indeed turning and people are starting to see sense"

hallelujajordan

kerry4sam wrote: »

Don't they need a 2/3 majority on both counts for the motions to pass and they remain on in Government?

Yeah, the vote is to accept the programme for government and to reject NAMA so the Programme needs 2/3 support; NAMA only needs 1/3

jprender

hallelujajordan wrote: »

NAMA only needs 1/3

It's only been a short time that they have been sitting with FF, but I see they have picked up a trick or two nonetheless.

kmick

The way I see it is the Greens have two choices.

1) Stay in government and lurch from crises to crises in get slaughtered at the polls in two years time.

2) Drop the whole stinking mess that is this government down the toilet and retain some shred of credibility maybe allowing people like me who voted for them in the last election to possibly consider voting for them again. I only say possibly because there performance has been so abysmal on every key decision they have made that IMHO they should go the way of the PD's.

Biggins

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Yeah, the vote is to accept the programme for government and to reject NAMA so the Programme needs 2/3 support; NAMA only needs 1/3

Apparently true.

The Greens leaders has the rules now written that they get what they want - a lot easier!
So much for a fairer democracy in action! :mad:

Yet again, more disgusting rule twisting by so called representatives!

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I'm going to forego the obvious "why ? why ???" and the "look where you've helped to land us".......

.....the reason being the feeling of - poetically - "Hallelujah!

Finally, a sign that the tide is indeed turning and people are starting to see sense"

But you didn't forego it ? ?

To be clear, I would actually still consider myself a FF supporter and would much prefer to see a FF led government after the next GE. I think Brian Lenihan is really starting to get to grips with the nations finances and is ready and able to make the tough decisions. I think NAMA is the only show in town (Incidentally, I agree with those who suggest that the reason Kenny is so quiet at the moment is because he doesn't want to bring down the government before they push NAMA through)

That said, I recognise that there is zero chance of FF being able to get the numbers to form any sort of stable government if the GE happens this year. When faced with the options, I would much rather see a stable single party government with a mandate and the strength to make the tough decisions.

Do we really believe that the Kenny / Gilmore / Burton / Bruton combination will have the strength to form an alliance that will be able to bring about the much needed reforms to the public sector ?

Biggins

All I can see for the near future, is utter chaos.
And I don't state that with any glee what so ever.

jprender

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Do we really believe that the Kenny / Gilmore / Burton / Bruton combination will have the strength to form an alliance that will be able to bring about the much needed reforms to the public sector ?

Yes, I do.


Also, it's about time these arrogant, self-serving, free-spending FF TD's really find out what the public think of them.

Bring on the GE, bring it on soon.

bauderline

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Given the timing of JO'D's resignation I think there is some real concern in Dail Eireann that the government might fall this weekend. The only reason I can see for him to stick it out another week is because if the government falls and an election is called before he resigns then he will automatically get reelected for another term. . So either he is not confident the govt can survive this weekend or the Brian Cowen is not confident. Either way, it is worrying.

Personally, I would be concerned if the govt were to fall this weekend. Enda Kenny would almost certainly be our next Taoiseach and I think he has shown this week that he doesn't have the kahunas to make the tough decisions. I'm not sure that Gilmore will be able to happily adopt the 'deputy' position and I am concerned about how well that partnership can work.

brace brace brace !!!

hallelujajordan

jprender wrote: »

Yes, I do.


Also, it's about time these arrogant, self-serving, free-spending FF TD's really find out what the public think of them.

Bring on the GE, bring it on soon.

There is an urgent need to reduce pay in the public sector (dealt with in other threads) . .

SIPTU believe it is appropriate to look for a 3.5% increase for some of the best paid European health sector workers, despite the €400M pw gap in the public finances. .

Gilmore and the rest of the Labour crew are intrinsically linked to the unions and just yesterday morning was addressing the SIPTU conference to huge applause.

Do you really believe that Gilmore and Kenny together will be able to successfully take on the unions and bring about the change that is needed ? ? ?

jprender

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Do you really believe that Gilmore and Kenny together will be able to successfully take on the unions and bring about the change that is needed ? ? ?

To restate.....yes, yes I do.

I believe that they can take on the monster that FF created.

bauderline

By all accounts Enda K's performance in the Dail yesterday was nothing short of shocking... in terms of running the government in this country the man is not fit for purpose.....

The choices are really bleak IMO !

bauderline

jprender wrote: »

To restate.....yes, yes I do.

I believe that they can take on the monster that FF created.

Gilmore has basically said he won't cut Public Sector pay.... that is neither acceptable nor viable....

jprender

Well then it is FG for me so unless Gilmore can tell me where he is going to get the money from.

I have 40-50 years left on this planet, and I can honestly say that I will never ever vote for FF because of the legacy that they are leaving us.

hallelujajordan

jprender wrote: »

To restate.....yes, yes I do.

I believe that they can take on the monster that FF created.

Anyone who believes that Gilmore will tackle the Unions ought to take a look at this . .

http://www.sipo.gov.ie/en/DonationsDisclosed/TDsSenatorsandMEPs/DonationsDisclosedbyTDsSenatorsandMEPsfor2007/File,8137,en.pdf

Labour and the Unions are intrinsically linked and share more or less the same base of support. A Coalition government that includes Labour will never be able to take on the unions ..

jprender

I think that over the last decade, FF, through social partnership, have been cosier with the unions than Labour.

No point trying to get the sh1t back in the horse now.

bauderline

Personally I would like to see FF make it to December and see if they have the balls to make the spending cuts that are so badly needed. If they go before that the country is in real bad trouble....

bauderline

jprender wrote: »

I think that over the last decade, FF, through social partnership, have been cosier with the unions than Labour.

No point trying to get the sh1t back in the horse now.

Well social partnership was likely a bigger con job than the celtic tiger.. however no point in yapping about the past... we need it fixed, it would appear to me that FF are likely the only ones with the balls to make spending cuts as they have nothing left to loose...

Gilmore won't do it.... Enda has no spine to do it and will spend months dithering.....

hobochris

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Anyone who believes that Gilmore will tackle the Unions ought to take a look at this . .

http://www.sipo.gov.ie/en/DonationsDisclosed/TDsSenatorsandMEPs/DonationsDisclosedbyTDsSenatorsandMEPsfor2007/File,8137,en.pdf

Labour and the Unions are intrinsically linked and share more or less the same base of support. A Coalition government that includes Labour will never be able to take on the unions ..

Your argument reminds me of the U.S presidential election where the republicans campaign was aimed at slandering the opposition rather then informing the voters of what policies they have in place to improve the country should they be elected for another term.

The fact remains though if FG bring in a decent charismatic party leader FF's days in government are numbered.

And while Gilmore may not directly take on the unions I'm sure he will engage them more effectively then FF have done.

a FG + Labor coalition with a new face as Taoiseach would be the way forward Imo.

chalkitdown

Anyone that voted for FF in the last election should be ashamed of themselves, that ANYONE is still considering voting for them again is shameful.
I would be happy if someone started picking them off with a Barrett light 50, one a week would be a start, the rest of the rats would run.

jprender

Ok I am with you then.

Let FF make all the cuts and then roll in the new Govt with a clean slate.


Hopefully that will mean the end of FF and they can go back to practicing law or teaching or whatever it is they are fit to do.

bauderline

hobochris wrote: »

Your argument reminds me of the U.S presidential election where the republicans campaign was aimed at slandering the opposition rather then informing the voters of what policies they have in place to improve the country should they be elected for another term.

The fact remains though if FG bring in a decent charismatic party leader FF's days in government are numbered.

And while Gilmore may not directly take on the unions I'm sure he will engage them more effectively then FF have done.

- New leader for FG... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE !!
- I don't want Gilmore to engage with the unions... that will take months... what is needed is action to cut public sector pay and spending now !!

hallelujajordan

hobochris wrote: »

Your argument reminds me of the U.S presidential election where the republicans campaign was aimed at slandering the opposition rather then informing the voters of what policies they have in place to improve the country should they be elected for another term.

The fact remains though if FG bring in a decent charismatic party leader FF's days in government are numbered.

And while Gilmore may not directly take on the unions I'm sure he will engage them more effectively then FF have done.

I agree, and I'm not slandering anyone. . As I have said already here I am a FF supporter who is ready to support FG in the next GE because I believe they are the only party who, with an overall majority can really tackle the unions and the public sector.

I'm linking to the donations data just to demonstrate to those on here who believe that Gilmore will tackle the Unions . . It's not going to happen. The Labour Party and the Unions go hand in glove. They share the same support base and one has been funding the other for decades. Gilmore will not bite the hand that feeds !

hobochris

bauderline wrote: »

- New leader for FG... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE !!
- I don't want Gilmore to engage with the unions... that will take months... what is needed is action to cut public sector pay and spending now !!

your right it is needed now! but from what I see FF seem to be waiting for the IMF to force their hand.

average_runner

If you think FG and Labour will do better than FF, well ask someone who grew up in the 80's, things were alot worst with them, all they did was borrow and look after the farmers. The decent folk got nothing and they even wanted to cut children allowance totally back then.


Regarding who to vote next time. Well no party in Ireland has a decent leader but if FF got rid of Cowen they get back in. I vote FF if Cowen is gone.

Otherwise just vote independents

hallelujajordan

hobochris wrote: »

your right it is needed now! but from what I see FF seem to be waiting for the IMF to force their hand.

Sorry, but thats just rubbish. . . FF are not 'waiting' for anything. . They have cut spending wherever they can in the public sector, they had an emergency budget earlier in the year. They are trying to bring in NAMA as quickly as possible. They have already begun to put the wheels in motion for big public sector pay cuts in the budget (hence the union reactions)

You may not agree with anything they are doing but you cannot accuse them of doing nothing !

hobochris

average_runner wrote: »

If you think FG and Labour will do better than FF, well ask someone who grew up in the 80's, things were alot worst with them, all they did was borrow and look after the farmers. The decent folk got nothing and they even wanted to cut children allowance totally back then.

From my understanding of the situation then FG put in the ground work for improvement in the economy and FF came into office and took the credit.